The Official Space and Astronomy Thread v. Well, this is weird.

[Grappler]

Cross posted from the twitter thread.  I laughed too much at this meme.

[Lonk]

Damage at launch site was pretty serious

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Starship test launch from 12th floor South Padre Island

Love the sound!

Also some amazing footage of the carnage after launch:

SpaceX Starship Flight Test: First Look at Damage to the Launch Site!

No question that flying debris was an issue for Starship.

[Chino]

Yeah. Apparently Elon said that they designed a giant, water cooled, steel plate that was supposed to cover the pad. It wasn't completed in time and they just sent it.   

I haven't seen it verified, but a source popped up a few times on Reddit claiming that there was damage done to an exterior module that's responsible for controlling the hydraulics that release stage one from stage two. A chunk of concrete flew into it, damaging it beyond the point of operation. 

The sound in your first video is awesome. It's cool to see/hear so many people excited about this kind of thing.

[El Barto]

Yeah. Apparently Elon said that they designed a giant, water cooled, steel plate that was supposed to cover the pad. It wasn't completed in time and they just sent it.   

I haven't seen it verified, but a source popped up a few times on Reddit claiming that there was damage done to an exterior module that's responsible for controlling the hydraulics that release stage one from stage two. A chunk of concrete flew into it, damaging it beyond the point of operation. 

The sound in your first video is awesome. It's cool to see/hear so many people excited about this kind of thing.

The colour of the flame suggested burning hydraulic fluid. Not to say that's they're wrong, but I think that's where the speculation has been coming from. Also, did the thing ever actually reach the appropriate altitude for the first stage sep? I know they were expecting it based on time elapsed, but with up to 8 Raptors not firing it was probably well short at the actual time.

[XJDenton]

They lost 4-5 engines of their 31 by the time they lost control and 2 were gone essentially just after liftoff. According to Scott Manley each engine they lost equated to about 9% loss in effective thrust, so the engine was WAY underpowered for a significant portion of its ascent. Given how much concrete was ejected from the launch site find it hard to imagine that they weren't damaged by the detritus flying up.

This launch really should have been delayed if the launch site wasn't ready.

[Chino]

This is a pretty cool graphic

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

So cool to finally see Starship launch, sure they have a long way to go but it's atleast a bit closer to the Moon or even Mars.

[Azyiu]

So cool to finally see Starship launch, sure they have a long way to go but it's atleast a bit closer to the Moon or even Mars.

Speaking of Mars, I got a question that perhaps some of you can enlighten me. With robotic and AI technology development advancing so swiftly at a much lower cost. Sending a couple of highly advanced robots to Mars may do a better, more efficient job than we do. So why must we set such a goal to land on Mars?

[WilliamMunny]

So cool to finally see Starship launch, sure they have a long way to go but it's atleast a bit closer to the Moon or even Mars.

Speaking of Mars, I got a question that perhaps some of you can enlighten me. With robotic and AI technology development advancing so swiftly at a much lower cost. Sending a couple of highly advanced robots to Mars may do a better, more efficient job than we do. So why must we set such a goal to land on Mars?

There literally isn't enough space on this board to properly articulate the 'why' we, as in, mankind, feels the need to venture out and place our boots on the ground of some unknown world.

I suppose, the best answer to this question may always be the following quote from George Mallory: "Because it's there."

In 1922, he took part in a second expedition to make the first ascent of the world's highest mountain, in which his team achieved a record altitude of 26,980 ft (8,225 m) without supplemental oxygen. Once asked by a reporter why he wanted to climb Everest, Mallory famously replied, "Because it's there."

If any of that makes sense to you (and, admittedly, as a risk-adverse person, I have never understood the desire to explore, climb, or go to Mars), then I suspect you don't even bother asking 'why,' because you are already attempting to do it.

The desire to explore is intrinsic to our species, and even with AI and all that, a small portion of us will always desire to see for ourselves.

[Lonk]

So cool to finally see Starship launch, sure they have a long way to go but it's atleast a bit closer to the Moon or even Mars.

Speaking of Mars, I got a question that perhaps some of you can enlighten me. With robotic and AI technology development advancing so swiftly at a much lower cost. Sending a couple of highly advanced robots to Mars may do a better, more efficient job than we do. So why must we set such a goal to land on Mars?

There literally isn't enough space on this board to properly articulate the 'why' we, as in, mankind, feels the need to venture out and place our boots on the ground of some unknown world.

I suppose, the best answer to this question may always be the following quote from George Mallory: "Because it's there."

In 1922, he took part in a second expedition to make the first ascent of the world's highest mountain, in which his team achieved a record altitude of 26,980 ft (8,225 m) without supplemental oxygen. Once asked by a reporter why he wanted to climb Everest, Mallory famously replied, "Because it's there."

If any of that makes sense to you (and, admittedly, as a risk-adverse person, I have never understood the desire to explore, climb, or go to Mars), then I suspect you don't even bother asking 'why,' because you are already attempting to do it.

The desire to explore is intrinsic to our species, and even with AI and all that, a small portion of us will always desire to see for ourselves.

Yeah, in simple terms is more of a satisfaction thing to say "it's done, and we did it" more than anything else. The reason why we haven't gone back to the Moon in 50 years is because there is no need. We already sent robots to mars. Sending more robots will not feel as a big accomplishment as sending actual humans.

But, I am all for the science, so if there are brave souls willing to make the travel, and those willing to fund i, then 

[Chino]

It's also a life raft. In 1000 years, 5000 years, who knows. Humanity's only chance at surviving might one day come down to being able to rehome ourselves.

[El Barto]

It's also a life raft. In 1000 years, 5000 years, who knows. Humanity's only chance at surviving might one day come down to being able to rehome ourselves.

I believe that's been Musk's thought process all along.

My preferred answer is that we need to push ourselves, and exploration has always been a fantastic way to do that. In his famous letter about why we went to the Moon Ernst Stuhlinger brought up several points, and I'd consider them all exemplary of why we must find ways to push forward. The things that will come about from something like Mars colonization, which I also don't really get as an objective in and of itself, are enumerable, and without objectives like exploring space there's no real good reason to spend the scratch.

And the benefits far outweigh simply the scientific advancements, huge though they may be. Kids don't typically grow up wanting to invent new polymers. Plenty of them grow up wanting to be astronauts, and find themselves working on the theoretical physics side instead. Space exploration is a helluva recruiting tool the STEM disciplines. It's also one of the very few things that essentially everybody on Earth can get behind. Even countries where the people essentially hate one anther can stop to appreciate great achievements like milestones in space exploration. Plenty of other good reasons why everybody benefits when we try to do huge things, even if the immediate goal isn't all that interesting.

[XJDenton]

It's also a life raft. In 1000 years, 5000 years, who knows. Humanity's only chance at surviving might one day come down to being able to rehome ourselves.

Seems to me it would be a good idea to demonstrate we can keep out current planet liveable before we try to make a planet with no atmosphere and soil full of perchlorate habitable.

[Chino]

It's also a life raft. In 1000 years, 5000 years, who knows. Humanity's only chance at surviving might one day come down to being able to rehome ourselves.

Seems to me it would be a good idea to demonstrate we can keep out current planet liveable before we try to make a planet with no atmosphere and soil full of perchlorate habitable.

Sure, but backups don't hurt. Fidelity has demonstrated over the last 10 years that they can seemingly keep my retirement money safe, but I still have the entirety of my portfolio split across three companies just in case.

We could make Earth the most ideal celestial body in the universe and it won't mean dick if a comet we can't/don't have time to stop comes our way.

[El Barto]

It's also a life raft. In 1000 years, 5000 years, who knows. Humanity's only chance at surviving might one day come down to being able to rehome ourselves.

Seems to me it would be a good idea to demonstrate we can keep out current planet liveable before we try to make a planet with no atmosphere and soil full of perchlorate habitable.

We stand a better chance that the latter simply because we'd all be interested in trying. It's new and exciting. We're more interested in fighting about it rather than actually trying to salvage the Earth.

[XJDenton]

Any human life on Mars will never be long term self sustainable in the next century, and probably much longer than that. Hell, life on the ISS requires a whole supply infrastructure to sustain. I'm not against starting the process, but we have to be realistic about what the best and most effective ways of protecting ourselves are, and a mars lifeboat ain't it as concerns the next few generations at least.

[Chino]

Any human life on Mars will never be long term self sustainable in the next century, and probably much longer than that. Hell, life on the ISS requires a whole supply infrastructure to sustain.

Well, too be fair the only resource the ISS comes with is the station itself. Literally every other thing provided has to be supplied. At least Mars has water, caves, soil, some kind of an atmosphere (not suggesting we'd breathe it), and room. 

As for the next century bit, I specifically used 1000 and 5000 year timelines in my previous post just for that reason. I don't think anyone is expecting anything of substance in just the next century.

[Chino]

This seems pretty quick, even when taking into account "Elon time".

[XJDenton]

Conversely:

https://www.space.com/spacex-starship-faa-mishap-investigation

[El Barto]

Conversely:

https://www.space.com/spacex-starship-faa-mishap-investigation

"This is standard practice for all mishap investigations."

The FAA approvals are always temporary. I believe that they're reinstated for each launch and then immediately expire. He's blown up rockets before and he'll do so again. The FAA knows this. That said, they might mandate some changes, but they're probably changes he's already willing to make.

"Aspiring to have no flame diverter in Boca, but this could turn out to be a mistake,"

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Before and after footage. You gotta give SpaceX credit for the amount of transparency they have with this project. The fact that people can drive so close to a freakin active rocket launch site and see what's going on up close is quite something. I feel like alot of people don't seem to be aware of that.

Starship Launch Aftermath


Adding this great analysis of what went wrong:

I Watched the Starship Test Flight at 0.25x Speed & Saw What Went Wrong | Starship Flight Analysis

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Space X recap of Starship launch:

https://youtu.be/_krgcofiM6M

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

So NASA has also contracted Blue Orgin for it's Artemis Lunar lander. Let the competition commence!! 

[Azyiu]

https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/27508/curiositys-postcard-of-marker-band-valley/?utm_campaign=mb&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_source=morning_brew

This composite photo from Mars is simply stunningly beautiful.

[Lonk]

Interesting visualization of the 2024 solar eclipse

https://youtu.be/sOpYoO_SK7o

[lonestar]

Interesting visualization of the 2024 solar eclipse

https://youtu.be/sOpYoO_SK7o

Very cool!! I'm going to try and be in Austin for it, by cousin lives there so a room will be available for free. I guarantee hotel rates are going to be sky high if they're not all booked already.

[Lonk]

I'm a member of an astronomy association here, and there's been email chains going on since October that some members have booked 2-3 hotels just in case 

Given how unpredictable the weather is, I'll try my luck with Niagara falls since I can drive to it. Hopefully weather will cooperate

[El Barto]

I'm a member of an astronomy association here, and there's been email chains going on since October that some members have booked 2-3 hotels just in case 

They're fools! Spend less money at Academy for a tent, bag, air mattress, and Coleman stove+lantern. For a good eclipse you're better off out at some lake in the boonies than you are at a Ramada outside of Dayton.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Had to check when we in Sweden have the next one:

"The next total solar eclipse in Sweden is in 37737 days on Wednesday, 10/16/2126."

 

[Lonk]

While I'm not getting my hopes up, the new study on Betelgeuse is interesting. The paper is not peer reviewed yet, but there is chatter that the data is correct.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2306.00287.pdf

If true, Betelgeuse going supernova might be sooner than expected, with an optimistic prediction of just a few decades.

[Azyiu]

With a reported budget of just $75 million, India’s Chandrayaan-3 spacecraft successfully landed on the moon’s south pole yesterday is a spectacular achievement. Now sooner than later someone will have to land on the Clavius crater and start digging. 

[ReaperKK]

While I'm not getting my hopes up, the new study on Betelgeuse is interesting. The paper is not peer reviewed yet, but there is chatter that the data is correct.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2306.00287.pdf

If true, Betelgeuse going supernova might be sooner than expected, with an optimistic prediction of just a few decades.

That would be incredible if it went supernova in our lifetime.

[Chino]

While I'm not getting my hopes up, the new study on Betelgeuse is interesting. The paper is not peer reviewed yet, but there is chatter that the data is correct.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2306.00287.pdf

If true, Betelgeuse going supernova might be sooner than expected, with an optimistic prediction of just a few decades.

That would be incredible if it went supernova in our lifetime.

I know it's not a complicated idea, but it still always blows my mind a bit that if we were to witness that in our lifetime, the event itself actually already happened back in the 1400s.

[Chino]

With a reported budget of just $75 million, India’s Chandrayaan-3 spacecraft successfully landed on the moon’s south pole yesterday is a spectacular achievement. Now sooner than later someone will have to land on the Clavius crater and start digging. 

By comparison, it cost $100M to make the movie Gravity