The Official Space and Astronomy Thread v. Well, this is weird.

[El Barto]

I'm not entirely sure the public should be too mad about deaths regarding crewed launches to the moon or beyond.  I feel like it's expected and everyone involved knows the risks.  Not trying to say we shouldn't care or do what's necessary to protect people, but deaths from unexpected mistakes or unknowns seems like a given to me. I don't think I'd react differently to a spacex disaster compared to a nasa disaster.

Seldom are they unexpected mistakes or unknowns, though. There are almost always reasons to be pissed off about them because by and large they should have been prevented. The only one I can think of that really came out of the blue is going to be the crew of Soyuz 11, and while I'm not an expert, that would still most likely be a result of cutting corners somewhere. NASA doesn't screw things up by being cheap. It screws things up with arrogance and complacency. Space X stands a decent chance of screwing up by being careless. NASA can't fail. Space X can.

When doing something new, it's almost guaranteed there will be unseen mistakes and/or unknown.  These things may often be very easy to notice in review of what happened, but not always so obvious going in.  Going to the moon isn't really new though.  I'd imagine deaths from missions to the moon would be more maddening, but the more ambitious goals are almost certainly going to lead to deaths.  At the end of the day, it's people doing this and people make mistakes.  It's inevitable IMO.

Absolutely. And the more complex a thing is the more unknowns there are that can kill you. Chernobyl is a perfect example of that. The engineering flaw that caused it to blow up was something nobody had ever imagined. Spaceflight deaths have always been knowns, though. North American had made repeated warnings that testing the CM with pressurized pure o2 was a really bad idea, and NASA and the astronauts knew there was shoddy wiring in the CM. Thiokol (and Rockwell) both tried to get NASA to scrub the Challenger launch and were rebuffed. Guys at Marshall and former astronauts were accutely aware of the risk of falling insulation and NASA repeatedly ignored the warnings. ("Well, they've never caused a problem before" is a recurring theme with NASA.) None of these were the sorts of deaths you expect when doing something new and dangerous. You can accept casualties you cannot foresee or prevent. These were all deaths that were easily preventable and certainly should have been. They're far more likely, I think, and these are the sorts of deaths I think will be more accepable on NASA's watch than Space X's.

Interestingly, Apollo 13 actually was one of those unknown or unpredictable mishaps, and in that case NASA pulled off a miracle. I've long maintained that as bad as NASA sucks at doing the routine, they're every bit as exceptional at handling contingency.

[Chino]

We heard a meteoroid hit mars!

https://mars.nasa.gov/news/9264/nasas-insight-hears-its-first-meteoroid-impacts-on-mars/?fbclid=IwAR1CtAMsi80JI4iuD7l6rHr8tGtGZnAoQb0TYxzGODw3lRIeGcmYYVhGCu4

[Azyiu]

The sound of impacts sounded cool and they remind me of sound effects in Mario games somehow. 

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Behold the official theme for the United States Space Force:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSV3Q4ztGaA&ab_channel=TheMilitaryOfficersAssociationofAmerica

Straight out of Monty Python. 

[chknptpie]

Watching us crash a thing into an asteroid was very cool today.

[Lonk]

I didn't realize they would have a camera. The close up of the asteroid looked nice

[chknptpie]

I believe there was also a smaller device trailing behind to capture the impact from a different perspective. Cant wait to see that footage too!

[Azyiu]

I watched the live feed on YouTube, and it was really cool. Cooler yet, that final partial photo was being transmitted half way as the impact took place. Do we have any up-to-date trajectory of Dimorphos? Cooler still, I suggest you guys go search for "nasa dart mission" on google, and see that little effect they have done to that search. 

[lonestar]

Plus it was cool to get a little payback for the dinosaurs...

[Azyiu]

Plus it was cool to get a little payback for the dinosaurs...

Sorry, pal. Then you will have to pick on someone bigger. 

[Chino]

We're going to Titan!

https://noshma.com/astronomy/its-official-nasas-sending-a-mission-to-titan-a-top-candidate-for-alien-life/?fbclid=IwAR2ZWF_BECgLLQ6Qe5f25c4ImhjacsBurEAHMypoY1l7Ll9FaDG3Akz5g8s


I remember this being discussed years ago. I wasn't aware we were sending around a hopper drone.

[Azyiu]

I knew about Dragonfly, but I didn't know a launch window is now set for 2026. Well, just stay alive and stay tuned til 2038 everyone to find out if there is alien life on Titan 

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Cool seeing the two boosters land so close to eachother.

I also heard that NASA and Space X are discussing a possible Hubble reboost doing EVA.

[El Barto]

Cool seeing the two boosters land so close to eachother.

I also heard that NASA and Space X are discussing a possible Hubble reboost doing EVA.

I was thinking it was going to be an unmanned deal. Last I heard they were just sort of knocking around if it would even be possible.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Cool seeing the two boosters land so close to eachother.

I also heard that NASA and Space X are discussing a possible Hubble reboost doing EVA.

I was thinking it was going to be an unmanned deal. Last I heard they were just sort of knocking around if it would even be possible.

Yea apparently it's only a study with no current plan but maybe in the future.

NASA and SpaceX signed an unfunded Space Act Agreement Thursday, Sept. 22, to study the feasibility of a SpaceX and Polaris Program idea to boost the agency’s Hubble Space Telescope into a higher orbit with the Dragon spacecraft, at no cost to the government.

There are no plans for NASA to conduct or fund a servicing mission or compete this opportunity; the study is designed to help the agency understand the commercial possibilities.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2022/nasa-spacex-to-study-hubble-telescope-reboost-possibility

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Man, we live in the beginning of a new era where ordinary people have the option to experience zero-g and see Earth from "space". Sure the price tag is still hefty with a whoppin $1.25 million per ticket but still though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXXlSG-du7c&ab_channel=DudePerfect

Someone should offer a bunch of flat earthers a ride.

[Azyiu]

Someone should offer a bunch of flat earthers a ride.

They can believe we are living in a computer simulation even. Why waste a seat? 

[XJDenton]

Man, we live in the beginning of a new era where ordinary people have the option to experience zero-g and see Earth from "space". Sure the price tag is still hefty with a whoppin $1.25 million per ticket but still though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXXlSG-du7c&ab_channel=DudePerfect

Someone should offer a bunch of flat earthers a ride.

Word "ordinary" is doing some heavy lifting there.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Man, we live in the beginning of a new era where ordinary people have the option to experience zero-g and see Earth from "space". Sure the price tag is still hefty with a whoppin $1.25 million per ticket but still though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXXlSG-du7c&ab_channel=DudePerfect

Someone should offer a bunch of flat earthers a ride.

Word "ordinary" is doing some heavy lifting there.

I guess more appropriately millionares and lucky people which in a way can be called ordinary folks. 

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Artemis Launch Sound Experience - Listen to NASA's SLS Rocket Roar with mics placed inside the pad

Man that sound is immense and weird in how it builds up, sounds like wire tension! Would be a dream to experience a launch like that IRL.

Holy shit, the close up at the end 8:20!

[gmillerdrake]

Extremely underwhelmed and a little bit 'embarrassed' by the generic and boring pictures the Orion moon flyby produced. Pretty lame IMO.....normally I'm good with spending $$$ on space exploration and what not but this was a massive waste of money. Unless there's just a top secret aspect as to why they 'really' sent this thing out there....then maybe it's justifiable....but if what we got is what it was.....

[Lonk]

Extremely underwhelmed and a little bit 'embarrassed' by the generic and boring pictures the Orion moon flyby produced. Pretty lame IMO.....normally I'm good with spending $$$ on space exploration and what not but this was a massive waste of money. Unless there's just a top secret aspect as to why they 'really' sent this thing out there....then maybe it's justifiable....but if what we got is what it was.....

I could be wrong, but I believe this mission, Artermis I, was supposed to be a test flight before sending humans to the moon again.

We probably could've gotten better pictures, but I don't think that was part of this mission at all.

[gmillerdrake]

Extremely underwhelmed and a little bit 'embarrassed' by the generic and boring pictures the Orion moon flyby produced. Pretty lame IMO.....normally I'm good with spending $$$ on space exploration and what not but this was a massive waste of money. Unless there's just a top secret aspect as to why they 'really' sent this thing out there....then maybe it's justifiable....but if what we got is what it was.....

I could be wrong, but I believe this mission, Artermis I, was supposed to be a test flight before sending humans to the moon again.

We probably could've gotten better pictures, but I don't think that was part of this mission at all.

I hope that is the case....that'd explain the lack of anything real exciting. Appreciate the info. 

[El Barto]

Yeah, not the object of the exercise. Those came from a navigational camera, which suggests that stellar photography wasn't really what it was about. The next mission will be manned, and the third will be a landing.

Also, they're still pretty good pictures.

[Chino]

Artemis I was most definitely just a test flyby. It wasn't a mission of any kind beyond completing the trip to the moon and back.   

That being said, I'm in the camp that the Artemis program is a massive resource suck and shouldn't exist, and NASA's budget would be much better spent elsewhere. There's no need for the government to be in the business of launching anything anymore, especially at a price tag of over $1B per launch with a comically long turnaround time in-between. They should be focused on landers, rovers, orbiters, deep space imaging, asteroid deflection, and anything else research related.

[El Barto]

Artemis I was most definitely just a test flyby. It wasn't a mission of any kind beyond completing the trip to the moon and back.   

That being said, I'm in the camp that the Artemis program is a massive resource suck and shouldn't exist, and NASA's budget would be much better spent elsewhere. There's no need for the government to be in the business of launching anything anymore, especially at a price tag of over $1B per launch with a comically long turnaround time in-between. They should be focused on landers, rovers, orbiters, deep space imaging, asteroid deflection, and anything else research related.

I'd say that about the SLS, but not the overall program. It's a pretty ambitious program, and I like what they're looking to do. And I'm not sure I'd trust Musk to do it, either right or at all. Seems the better move would just be to pay him to launch NASA's hardware. That said, has Musk ever put anything into lunar orbit?

[Chino]

Artemis I was most definitely just a test flyby. It wasn't a mission of any kind beyond completing the trip to the moon and back.   

That being said, I'm in the camp that the Artemis program is a massive resource suck and shouldn't exist, and NASA's budget would be much better spent elsewhere. There's no need for the government to be in the business of launching anything anymore, especially at a price tag of over $1B per launch with a comically long turnaround time in-between. They should be focused on landers, rovers, orbiters, deep space imaging, asteroid deflection, and anything else research related.

I'd say that about the SLS, but not the overall program. It's a pretty ambitious program, and I like what they're looking to do. And I'm not sure I'd trust Musk to do it, either right or at all. Seems the better move would just be to pay him to launch NASA's hardware. That said, has Musk ever put anything into lunar orbit?

That's fair. I'll echo that. My real beef is with with the rocket and launch system, not the program as a whole. 

SpaceX hasn't put anything in lunar orbit yet, but that's what Starship is being developed for. I'd put my money on Musk if I were a betting man. As far as launching stuff into space goes, his company has delivered on basically everything they said they would.

[gmillerdrake]

I'm not nearly as 'in the know' as folks like EB, Brian...XJ and MrBoom....all the guys who regularly post in here. I am certainly fascinated by the universe and spend many a night on Youtube rabbit holes that detail just how vast and incomprehensible it is (which oddly enough strengthens my Faith and doesn't deteriorate it...whole other conversation)

I do find it a bit disappointing that we don't have people walking on Mars at this point though. I'd have thought for sure we'd at minimum have manned orbits of Mars by now....if not touchdown and history being made.

[El Barto]

Artemis I was most definitely just a test flyby. It wasn't a mission of any kind beyond completing the trip to the moon and back.   

That being said, I'm in the camp that the Artemis program is a massive resource suck and shouldn't exist, and NASA's budget would be much better spent elsewhere. There's no need for the government to be in the business of launching anything anymore, especially at a price tag of over $1B per launch with a comically long turnaround time in-between. They should be focused on landers, rovers, orbiters, deep space imaging, asteroid deflection, and anything else research related.

I'd say that about the SLS, but not the overall program. It's a pretty ambitious program, and I like what they're looking to do. And I'm not sure I'd trust Musk to do it, either right or at all. Seems the better move would just be to pay him to launch NASA's hardware. That said, has Musk ever put anything into lunar orbit?

That's fair. I'll echo that. My real beef is with with the rocket and launch system, not the program as a whole. 

SpaceX hasn't put anything in lunar orbit yet, but that's what Starship is being developed for. I'd put my money on Musk if I were a betting man. As far as launching stuff into space goes, his company has delivered on basically everything they said they would.

Starship is actually what Artemis will be using for its LEM. Not sure what Elon's plans for it are and when they might come to fruition.

As for SpaceX, space exploration is just something I'm not hugely comfortable outsourcing to the free market. I don't have anywhere near as much faith in market forces as a motivation for safety as other seem to. That said, they've been doing very good work thus far. I can just see Go Fever getting the best of them at some point.

[XJDenton]

Artemis I is basically an un-crewed dry run of all of the tech required for the future missions using the tech that will travel to the moon, with exception of the HLS (Starship). Current mission plan is for a human flyby in 2024, and a landing the following year. It remains to be seen if this schedule holds. I'm hopeful SpaceX will deliver on the promises of Starship, even if Musk is doing his best to drive his reputation and mental health into the dirt.

[Azyiu]

I think the landing date is definitely going to be delayed. I mean, we still haven't seen the lunar lander prototype up until this point. I don't think NASA would do anything too rapidly to ensure a fully functional prototype is built before a soft deadline. Another item of interest is the Toyota Lunar Cruiser. I read something earlier this year that the company is still committed to building it. Perhaps it becomes a reality before the lunar lander? We will just have to wait and see.

[El Barto]

I think the landing date is definitely going to be delayed. I mean, we still haven't seen the lunar lander prototype up until this point. I don't think NASA would do anything too rapidly to ensure a fully functional prototype is built before a soft deadline. Another item of interest is the Toyota Lunar Cruiser. I read something earlier this year that the company is still committed to building it. Perhaps it becomes a reality before the lunar lander? We will just have to wait and see.

Isn't Starship the lunar lander? I think it's a different block version, but the main bits are the same.

[Azyiu]

You might be right, but I was under the impression that the lander itself is an individual craft like in the Apollo missions.

[XJDenton]

Starship is the class, Starship HLS is the variant that can actually land.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_HLS

The idea is the lander will be launched, refuelled and then transfer to luna orbit separately from the crew, which will use the Boeing Orion system just tested to get to/from the moon, and then they will do a crew transfer in luna orbit before descending.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Everyday Astronaut Tim is going around the moon, that's pretty damn epic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFIuzormhYU&ab_channel=EverydayAstronaut