DT in the studio again!

[Scorpion]

And the original absolutely destroys it.

[BlackInk]

In general, I agree with ? that lyrics can't save a bad song or trash a good one, but they can certainly enhance or diminish the effect of a song.

I don't agree completely with that. It's true that good lyrics can't save a bad song, I see that all the time, but I believe aweful lyrics can completely trash a good musical piece, not only diminishing the effect of it.

[?]

In general, I agree with ? that lyrics can't save a bad song or trash a good one, but they can certainly enhance or diminish the effect of a song.

I don't agree completely with that. It's true that good lyrics can't save a bad song, I see that all the time, but I believe aweful lyrics can completely trash a good musical piece, not only diminishing the effect of it.

Ok, if the lyrics are REALLY poor, they can ruin a song, but this hasn't happened to me with any DT song yet. The Count of Tuscany is a top 20 song for me and the rest of the songs with less stellar lyrics are also weak musically.

[Mladen]

Are we talking about good Dream Theater lyrics? Under a glass moon, Learning to live, Lifting shadows of a dream, Space dye vest, Trial of tears, Disappear, The Ministry of lost souls, Breaking all illusions, Beneath the surface... The thought-provoking, truly amazing ones.

[wasteland]

Yes, I've always wondered why many people seem to think lyrics are and have always been DT's weakness.

[Orbert]

And the original absolutely destroys it.

I can't stand the original.  I don't think I've ever heard anything by Trent Reznor that I like.

[Scorpion]

Fair enough, I really enjoy some of his stuff. He does great scores as well - did you watch The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo? He did the score for that one, I really dug it. It had an awesome version of the Immigrant Song.

[novenpeter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuCGMvyE4C0

Dream Theater Twitter Q&A with John Petrucci Do you write the music first and then write lyrics?

[wasteland]

HOW MANY SHEETS DO THEY HAVE IN THEIR HANDS 

[?]

Poor James couldn't sit on a couch (I know it's been like that in all the videos, but I didn't pay attention to it until now)!

I knew JP would give an answer like that, DT's music isn't that vocal-driven. Interesting that this got posted right after we had been discussing lyrics in this thread!

[darkshade]

 

[Orbert]

Fair enough, I really enjoy some of his stuff. He does great scores as well - did you watch The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo? He did the score for that one, I really dug it. It had an awesome version of the Immigrant Song.

Oops, I forgot he did that.  Some of the music in that movie was okay.  I thought his take on Immigrant Song was interesting.  I don't know if I liked it, but it was interesting.

Most of Trent's stuff, actually all of it that I've heard, seem to be going for the "OMG so fucking hardcore, so intense, so violent, so industrial, melt your face off" thing, and honestly, I was kinda into that like 20 years ago, but not now.

[Orion1967]

Yes, I've always wondered why many people seem to think lyrics are and have always been DT's weakness.

From what I see I think it might be because on the grand scheme of things Lyrical quality might be an overall 7 or 8 out of 10, while the music is a solid 11 out of 10.   JP and JMx are musians first, poets second imho.

[DebraKadabra]

Most of Trent's stuff, actually all of it that I've heard, seem to be going for the "OMG so fucking hardcore, so intense, so violent, so industrial, melt your face off" thing

Not all of his stuff with NIN or any of the other side projects he's done is 100% about that.

[wasteland]

Yes, I've always wondered why many people seem to think lyrics are and have always been DT's weakness.

From what I see I think it might be because on the grand scheme of things Lyrical quality might be an overall 7 or 8 out of 10, while the music is a solid 11 out of 10.   JP and JMx are musians first, poets second imho.

What about Kevin, though?    And I don't think you need to be a proper poet to write 10/10 lyrics, like JP, JM and JLB have done in the past.

[Orion1967]

Yes, I've always wondered why many people seem to think lyrics are and have always been DT's weakness.

From what I see I think it might be because on the grand scheme of things Lyrical quality might be an overall 7 or 8 out of 10, while the music is a solid 11 out of 10.   JP and JMx are musians first, poets second imho.

What about Kevin, though?    And I don't think you need to be a proper poet to write 10/10 lyrics, like JP, JM and JLB have done in the past.

Well it certainly doesnt hurt I suppose.  But you have to thinkk that at somepoint in the studio they must have completed a song and went "Damn... now we gotta make up words to go with that...."
Not everything is lyrically inspired I don't suppose LOL
Kevin? well he was just tortured inside so yeah, lots of great lyrics there!

[wolven74]

HOW MANY SHEETS DO THEY HAVE IN THEIR HANDS 

I noticed that Mike Mangini doesn't have a sheet in his hand in this one. Maybe I just can't see it? 

[Lucidity]

I feel like the songs that people praise with "thought-provoking" don't really mean anything... I've tried analyzing Breaking All Illusions, Metropolis, etc. through and through again and I've come to the personal conclusion that it's pretentious gibberish, which is how I feel about Myung lyrics in general (I love JMX! But I just don't understand all the love for his lyrics!)

Examples for me of DT songs with good lyrics are The Great Debate (the best lyrics DT have written in my opinion), Voices, Misunderstood, and maybe Blind Faith, Lines In the Sand, and The Mirror.



...Also Honor Thy Father loljk

[Orbert]

Most of Trent's stuff, actually all of it that I've heard, seem to be going for the "OMG so fucking hardcore, so intense, so violent, so industrial, melt your face off" thing

Not all of his stuff with NIN or any of the other side projects he's done is 100% about that.

Maybe not all, just all that I've heard.

[iamtheeviltwin]

...Also Honor Thy Father loljk

To be fair to Honor Thy Father the lyrics do an incredible job of letting you know exactly the feelings and emotions the writer was trying to convey.

[BlackInk]

it's pretentious gibberish

Those are the best lyrics 

[philmcson]

HOW MANY SHEETS DO THEY HAVE IN THEIR HANDS 

One sheet with 5 questions, the other ones are blank 

[JayOctavarium]

HOW MANY SHEETS DO THEY HAVE IN THEIR HANDS 

One sheet with 5 questions, the other ones are blank 

[wasteland]

HOW MANY SHEETS DO THEY HAVE IN THEIR HANDS 

One sheet with 5 questions, the other ones are blank 

All lyrics and no bass makes John a dull boy.
All lyrics and no bass makes John a dull boy.
All lyrics and no bass makes John a dull boy.
All lyrics and no bass makes John a dull boy.
All lyrics and no bass makes John a dull boy.
All lyrics and no bass makes John a dull boy.
All lyrics and no bass makes John a dull boy.
All lyrics and no bass makes John a dull boy.
All lyrics and no bass makes John a dull boy.
All lyrics and no bass makes John a dull boy.
All lyrics and no bass makes John a dull boy.
All lyrics and no bass makes John a dull boy.

[Onno]

               

[me7]

I feel like the songs that people praise with "thought-provoking" don't really mean anything... I've tried analyzing Breaking All Illusions, Metropolis, etc. through and through again and I've come to the personal conclusion that it's pretentious gibberish, which is how I feel about Myung lyrics in general (I love JMX! But I just don't understand all the love for his lyrics!)

Examples for me of DT songs with good lyrics are The Great Debate (the best lyrics DT have written in my opinion), Voices, Misunderstood, and maybe Blind Faith, Lines In the Sand, and The Mirror.



...Also Honor Thy Father loljk

The point of gibberish lyrics is that anyone interprets them as he wants to. Out there are some broken hearted people who will say that it's a love song, some philosophers who see it as a song about the meaning of life and possibly even some skinheads who will say it's a song about white supremacy. Such lyrics make everyone happy and give the band the maximum possible profit due to the large target audience.


But seriously, if an artist wants to write about something personal but he doesn't feel comfortable with telling the public all personal details, he can write such a song to express how he feels without revealing what exactly happened to him.
For my part, I just care about how the lyrics sound. In case of BAI, i feel like the sound of the words that James sings give additional strength to the song.

[TheGreatPretender]

For my part, I just care about how the lyrics sound. In case of BAI, i feel like the sound of the words that James sings give additional strength to the song.

For me, it's more about how they're worded. I mean, I don't give a shit about WHAT Forsaken is about, but the words, "Out of an ivory mist, I felt a stinging kiss, and saw a crimson stain on her lips," are fucking beautiful! I honestly think that was the best Pettrucci lyric in a long time.

[jonnybaxy]

By DT's lyrics? I've been moved by vacant and by the story in SFAM and by Johnny Cash's hurt, that got to me a lot mainly due to it pretty much being about him dying

tell me you're joking. that's a cover song...

I meant his cover of it, he made it into an extremely emotional song

[TheAtliator]

If anyone thinks songs like Lifting Shadows off a Dream have gibberish lyrics, you can have a great long talk with me.

In the past year of listening to Dream Theater, I have slowly been learning and figuring out what songs with these types of lyrics mean. So many songs like this or Learning to Live have such PROFOUND philosophies throughout that are often portrayed through metaphors. The reason two people can interpret them differently and both be correct is because the author's ideology is consistent and it applies to many different personal situations.

If you haven't been thinking about these things while listening to DT up to this point- congratulations, you have a lot to look forward to.

[jonnybaxy]

The only DT lyrics I have problems with are the ones that make no sense and are pretty General phrase and stuff, like pull me under, under a glass moon, forsaken, status seeker (and almost all of WDaDU) 6:00.
Just to name a few, well I can't understand what they mean at all, I don't know if they do or not...

[j]

I feel like the songs that people praise with "thought-provoking" don't really mean anything...

Although I don't agree with your specific examples, there's definitely a good point here that can apply to DT at times.  But personally--if forced to choose between different types of suboptimal lyrics--I would much prefer ambiguous lyrics whose words at least "sound" good phonetically or that paint some kind of a picture despite not making much sense on the surface, to poorly-executed, contrived lyrics or pedestrian lyrics that sound like they were written by a first grader a la parts of TBOT.

Examples for me of DT songs with good lyrics are The Great Debate (the best lyrics DT have written in my opinion), Voices, Misunderstood, and maybe Blind Faith, Lines In the Sand, and The Mirror.

I think these are some of DT's very best songs lyrically, other than the two I've crossed out.

-J

[TheAtliator]

The only DT lyrics I have problems with are the ones that make no sense and are pretty General phrase and stuff, like pull me under, under a glass moon, forsaken, status seeker (and almost all of WDaDU) 6:00.
Just to name a few, well I can't understand what they mean at all, I don't know if they do or not...

-I don't quite know what UAGM is about yet , it seems to be about marriage, but may have a double meaning.
-I DO know what 6:00 is about, and it's one of those big philosophies that I live my life by. It's one of the axioms that provides a theme of that entire album- part of the common thread. Has to do with taking command of your own freaking life even if it seems easier to just go with the flow. In the end, if you let others decide what's best for you, it eventually catches up to you and you have to dig yourself out of a hole- get unstuck from the web if you will- and finally start following your own dream, whether in regards to your career or love or anything else. But it's harder and harder the longer you wait. "It's too late for me.........nnnnNOW"
-Pull Me Under is about death, which other songs on I&W expand on. It really makes me start to think about the importance of Taking the Time and Learning to Live. Seize the day if you know what I mean.
-JP explains what Forsaken is about in Chaos in Progress and, much like tDEN, is not really a philosophy like those others, but is rather just a fun story. It has to do with a vampire I think.
-Status Seeker goes along with Fortune in Lies and Ytse Jam, I think. It's basically saying to a shallow man that there is more value to more things in life than just the superficial things he sees.

[GasparXR]

Did you just say Ytse Jam has a lyrical meaning?

[orcus116]

I feel like the songs that people praise with "thought-provoking" don't really mean anything...

Although I don't agree with your specific examples, there's definitely a good point here that can apply to DT at times.  But personally--if forced to choose between different types of suboptimal lyrics--I would much prefer ambiguous lyrics whose words at least "sound" good phonetically or that paint some kind of a picture despite not making much sense on the surface, to poorly-executed, contrived lyrics or pedestrian lyrics that sound like they were written by a first grader a la parts of TBOT.

That pretty much sums up DT's lyrics for me and well put. Pseudo-poetry over dictation.

[TheGreatPretender]

Did you just say Ytse Jam has a lyrical meaning?

Of course! But it's a little B-line. I mean, Myung pretty much always uses that kind of wording in every day speech.