Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 870599 times)

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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10990 on: February 28, 2022, 01:27:19 PM »
I think they should've actually called Mikael Akerfeldt to do the "day after day" section in ANTR as Mike originally wanted. I'm not a fan of growling vocals but would've preferred that to what we actually got :)
Akerfeldt is the greatest growler off all-time IMO.  Certainly when he was in his prime.  LOVE early Opeth!
Which is kind of like saying "is the greatest farter of all-time".  I guess it's a skill, but we can't assume it's a skill appreciated by everyone. :)
:rollin Well said Stads! No need for an MA guest appearance, IMO.
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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10991 on: February 28, 2022, 01:45:44 PM »
I think they should've actually called Mikael Akerfeldt to do the "day after day" section in ANTR as Mike originally wanted. I'm not a fan of growling vocals but would've preferred that to what we actually got :)
Akerfeldt is the greatest growler off all-time IMO.  Certainly when he was in his prime.  LOVE early Opeth!

Which is kind of like saying "is the greatest farter of all-time".  I guess it's a skill, but we can't assume it's a skill appreciated by everyone. :)
Fair enough.  I know personally, I'm a much better farter than I am growler.  But I recognize it's not easy to be considered "great" at either "skill".  So I have a lot of respect for both LOL
   :lol
 
« Last Edit: March 01, 2022, 08:37:20 AM by Architeuthis »
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10992 on: February 28, 2022, 02:02:00 PM »
I think they should've actually called Mikael Akerfeldt to do the "day after day" section in ANTR as Mike originally wanted. I'm not a fan of growling vocals but would've preferred that to what we actually got :)

I really like Portnoy's vocals on that part, and other than "ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRR!" I think it is perfect as is.
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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10993 on: February 28, 2022, 02:15:53 PM »
Agreed, but I even like the Rooooaaarrrrrrr too.  I get a good chuckle out of it..
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10994 on: February 28, 2022, 03:02:08 PM »
I've been a fan of growling vocals ever since I discovered Testament 35 years ago.  Let's face it.  MP doesn't do that section in ANTR any justice at all.  Now, Chuck Billy on the other hand?  He's the father of growling vocals, no contest.
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Offline 425

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10995 on: February 28, 2022, 03:15:37 PM »
I don't think it's fair to judge the MP performance that was used against actual growls, because JP took a hard stance against him doing those. There is a take where MP did actual growls, which I thought were fairly well-done.
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Offline geeeemo

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10996 on: February 28, 2022, 03:20:19 PM »
I don't care for bands that growl. We saw the Megadeth tour with Lamb of God, Trivium and Hatebreed. I just cannot get into it at all. Even Mustaines awful vocals are better than growling. (I thoroughly enjoyed myself though. Its great fun to be on the floor of a metal concert with my 6'5" 250 pound son! We stand by or in between mosh pits and he is my buffer :rollin. He's 23 now and starting to look at "taking care of me" signaling to move to his one side or another if he thinks it's getting too wonky)

He also has been getting into Opeth. I have listened with him several times. Just too much for me.

That said, a tad bit of growling here and there for texture, emphasis or to emote I enjoy very much.  I like the Portnoy growls and the roar.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10997 on: February 28, 2022, 03:40:21 PM »
After hearing JLB do that part live. I wish we would've gotten a mix of the two. Both MP's rough growl and last Roar, and also JLB's higher rough vocals with his scream. That would've been neat to see both of them really go at it during that section live. 
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Online TAC

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10998 on: February 28, 2022, 03:41:39 PM »
After hearing JLB do that part live. I wish we would've gotten a mix of the two. Both MP's rough growl and last Roar, and also JLB's higher rough vocals with his scream. That would've been neat to see both of them really go at it during that section live.

I agree.


The main problem with ANTR is how long it takes to end.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline 425

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10999 on: February 28, 2022, 05:19:05 PM »
He also has been getting into Opeth. I have listened with him several times. Just too much for me.

That said, a tad bit of growling here and there for texture, emphasis or to emote I enjoy very much.  I like the Portnoy growls and the roar.

It's often said in prog circles that Opeth is the gateway to liking growls, but that was definitely not my experience. I listened to them for many years before I moved beyond the point of only liking it occasionally for, as you say, texture or emphasis. For me, it was Amorphis that did it. I also like Tomi Joutsen's vocals (both clean and harsh) better than Åkerfeldt's.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11000 on: February 28, 2022, 05:50:34 PM »
He also has been getting into Opeth. I have listened with him several times. Just too much for me.

That said, a tad bit of growling here and there for texture, emphasis or to emote I enjoy very much.  I like the Portnoy growls and the roar.

It's often said in prog circles that Opeth is the gateway to liking growls, but that was definitely not my experience. I listened to them for many years before I moved beyond the point of only liking it occasionally for, as you say, texture or emphasis. For me, it was Amorphis that did it. I also like Tomi Joutsen's vocals (both clean and harsh) better than Åkerfeldt's.

They opened for DT on one of the Prog Nation tours, and a couple other bands played before them.  I wasn't familiar with any of the bands.  I think one of the other bands had growly vocals, so my friends and I hung out at the bar.  We went in to check out Opeth, but as soon as the vocalist opened his mouth, we started laughing and headed back to the bar.
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Offline Kram

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11001 on: February 28, 2022, 06:12:51 PM »
I know for me personally, I didn't care for Opeth for years because of the growls.  Then one day it clicked for me.  I remember the song that did it was Bleak from Blackwater Park.  Once it "clicked", they became one of my favorite bands of all time.  I look back at it now, and realize I just didn't "get it" back then (this was around that Prog Nation tour time).  If it ever does "click" for you - you're in for a hell of a ride!!

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11002 on: February 28, 2022, 07:08:43 PM »
There is no reason that Opeth guy or anyone else should be doing guest spots on any DT material. I shudder to think that 50 years from now, when the prog-metal world looks back at DT's career, they see that the one person who did a guest vocal spot on a song was the dude from Kings X.
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Offline geeeemo

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11003 on: February 28, 2022, 10:25:41 PM »
I know for me personally, I didn't care for Opeth for years because of the growls.  Then one day it clicked for me.  I remember the song that did it was Bleak from Blackwater Park.  Once it "clicked", they became one of my favorite bands of all time.  I look back at it now, and realize I just didn't "get it" back then (this was around that Prog Nation tour time).  If it ever does "click" for you - you're in for a hell of a ride!!

I will probably keep trying. The ride with DT the last 6 years has been addictive. Yay! A good addiction! I would love for it to happen again. I think that is what happened with my son.

Online NoseofNicko

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11004 on: March 01, 2022, 01:36:07 AM »
Lmao imagine implying growling isn’t really a skill…

Offline ErHaO

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11005 on: March 01, 2022, 03:24:27 AM »
I am torn on this. I am basically of the opinion that:

If you need to take a pause during a song in order to hit the next note, it means you can't sing that section.

...but I don't know how much I want any artist to write and record material based on if/how they can perform it live on a regular basis. I get that with rock music, that's part of the deal. But if James said "hey guys, I can totally do that part in Learning to Live in the studio, but there's no way I am pulling that off at a show..." do we want him to belt it out for the album, knowing live we'll get something different? As long is it is "real" when done in the studio, I think I would be cool with that.

There are many artists that don't sing material as is on the album. And not just older singers doing old material from when they were young. If I look at some of my faves, examples would be Hansi Kursch or Freddie Mercury, who both gave all in the studio and adapted the material differently live and do/did so based on the shape of their voice at the time of performing.

I personally prefer studio albums to be an all in effort. And I realise this will give challenges in a live setting. But out of all solutions to those challenges, faking it is my least preffered option by a long shot.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11006 on: March 01, 2022, 06:14:07 AM »
I know for me personally, I didn't care for Opeth for years because of the growls.  Then one day it clicked for me.  I remember the song that did it was Bleak from Blackwater Park.  Once it "clicked", they became one of my favorite bands of all time.  I look back at it now, and realize I just didn't "get it" back then (this was around that Prog Nation tour time).  If it ever does "click" for you - you're in for a hell of a ride!!
I hated the growls for the longest time, I only really liked Damnation. I then got into a band called Fair to Midland that had some growls but that was the catalyst where it made explore other music and have it click for me as well.

Offline genome

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11007 on: March 01, 2022, 06:43:47 AM »
I'll never forget putting on Ghost Reveries and the intro to Ghost of Perdition scaring the shit out of me.

I loved growling vocals after that  :lol

Offline Stadler

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11008 on: March 01, 2022, 07:09:23 AM »
Lmao imagine implying growling isn’t really a skill…

I'm not sure anyone did that.

I know for me, there's no disrespect, it's just not for me.  There's no "getting into it", or anything that sort of implies that it's my deficiency or some failure to understand.  I don't give a ton of thought to what I like or don't like.  I give it what I feel is a fair shake and if it clicks, it clicks. If it doesn't, it doesn't.  Growls have not. 

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11009 on: March 01, 2022, 09:08:19 AM »
Growls are very much a hit-or-miss thing for me.  I love how Opeth uses used them, but in some other bands it is just an impediment for me.
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Offline crystalstars17

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11010 on: March 01, 2022, 09:12:58 AM »
Growl vocals sound painful to me but I know there's a technique (sorry, I don't know anything about this one!) for doing it safely. My brother was in a band where he 'sang' this way and he actually saw a teacher who worked with him on how to produce that kind of sound without damage to the vocal cords. It has something to do with using the false cords and vocal fry, but beyond that IDK. I kinda don't want to get my head around this one!

It's not something I mind though as part of the right kind of music.

It's definitely not something I want to hear James attempting, though!  :omg:

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11011 on: March 01, 2022, 09:30:53 AM »
So no covers of this song for JLB? :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSnQ02FBsLQ :lol

Offline Kram

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11012 on: March 01, 2022, 11:59:34 AM »
I'll never forget putting on Ghost Reveries and the intro to Ghost of Perdition scaring the shit out of me.

I loved growling vocals after that  :lol
Ghost Reveries is one of my favorite albums of all time!

Offline Kram

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11013 on: March 01, 2022, 12:02:29 PM »
I know for me personally, I didn't care for Opeth for years because of the growls.  Then one day it clicked for me.  I remember the song that did it was Bleak from Blackwater Park.  Once it "clicked", they became one of my favorite bands of all time.  I look back at it now, and realize I just didn't "get it" back then (this was around that Prog Nation tour time).  If it ever does "click" for you - you're in for a hell of a ride!!

I will probably keep trying. The ride with DT the last 6 years has been addictive. Yay! A good addiction! I would love for it to happen again. I think that is what happened with my son.
Here's the song that finally made the growls click with me.  Check it out, maybe you'll like it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zdg4Sbefg4

Online SeRoX

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11014 on: March 20, 2022, 01:50:59 PM »
James should do some narrator on films or series. And I can see him doing audiobooks. His talking voice is just amazing.
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Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11015 on: March 20, 2022, 05:06:36 PM »
growls can be good when used like a special effect. But there are a LOT of bands that I would probably listen to but for growling for 90% of their music. I did love how Opeth used them a while ago. The lead singer also had a great 'clean' voice and used both so maybe that's why it worked for me.

Offline wolfking

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11016 on: March 21, 2022, 07:19:13 PM »
I think they should've actually called Mikael Akerfeldt to do the "day after day" section in ANTR as Mike originally wanted. I'm not a fan of growling vocals but would've preferred that to what we actually got :)

I agree.  Hearing that full section with proper harsh vocals would have been excellent.  Mikaels roar at the end too would have been special.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11017 on: March 21, 2022, 07:56:02 PM »
A thousand times no. When I listen to DT, one of the main reasons I do so is to hear James sing. There is no reason that a) any section of a DT song should ever be growled, and b) any other singer should be brought on to sing any part that James "cannot."
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Online TAC

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11018 on: March 21, 2022, 07:57:18 PM »
A thousand times no. When I listen to DT, one of the main reasons I do so is to hear James sing. There is no reason that a) any section of a DT song should ever be growled, and b) any other singer should be brought on to sing any part that James "cannot."

I agree 100%.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11019 on: March 22, 2022, 07:23:57 AM »
A thousand times no. When I listen to DT, one of the main reasons I do so is to hear James sing. There is no reason that a) any section of a DT song should ever be growled, and b) any other singer should be brought on to sing any part that James "cannot."

I agree 100%.

I lean this way too.  I don't mind guest vocals once in a while - though the best example of that in the catalogue, Lines In The Sand, is ruined by the guest vocal - but for all his ups and downs James is a large reasons why I'm a fan.

Offline MinistroRaven

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11020 on: March 22, 2022, 07:32:51 AM »
https://youtu.be/5bF34XA_MKk

Again he post his agenda vs James

From blabber mouth:

Quote
DREAM THEATER's JAMES LABRIE Lashes Out Over Lip-Sync Allegations: 'F**k You'

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theaters-james-labrie-lashes-out-over-lip-sync-allegations-fk-you

I work for BB now, Mark!

I just think there was no need to drop the F bomb to address the allegations, just move on, and keep doing what you are doing Labrie.

Or he could have just made a pre recorded statement and lip synched to it pretty bad on purpose, lol

Offline Dream Team

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11021 on: March 22, 2022, 07:44:51 AM »
Pertinent remarks, as they pertain to DT:

Former SKID ROW singer Sebastian Bach has previously said that he is "one of the last people" who are still not using pre-recorded tracks at their live shows. "I don't know how much longer I can say to you that I don't use tapes onstage, because I don't, and I never have," he told Consequence Of Sound. "And I still don't. When I have opening bands, and they're using tapes, and then I come out and I don't use tapes… sometimes, it makes me feel stupid, because I'm like, 'What am I doing, when all these kids half my age can come onstage and do all of my moves, but they don't have to warm up for an hour before the show, or weeks, before the first show?' Sometimes, I'm like, 'Why do I even bother, if the public is so used to this other way?' It's becoming very rare to come see a good band that's actually a real band — that's not miming or doing silly moves while a tape is running. It just becomes more rare as the years go on."

In 2019, IRON MAIDEN guitarist Adrian Smith said that he doesn't "agree" with certain rock artists relying on pre-recorded tracks during their live performances. "I tell you what, I see it with a lot of younger bands, and I don't think it's a good thing at all," he told the New York Post. "I mean, the music is getting too technical now. You have computerized recording systems, which we use, but I think we use them more for convenience than because we need to. We've toured with a couple bands that use tapes — it's not real. You're supposed to play live; it should be live. I don't agree with using tapes … I think it's a real shame."

One musician who has been open about his band's used of taped vocals during live performances is MÖTLEY CRÜE bassist Nikki Sixx, who said: "We've used technology since '87." He added the group employed "sequencers, sub tones, background vox tracks, plus background singers and us. [MÖTLEY CRÜE also taped] stuff we can't tour with, like cello parts in ballads, etc.... We love it and don't hide it. It's a great tool to fill out the sound."

In a 2014 interview, MÖTLEY CRÜE guitarist Mick Mars admitted that he wasn't comfortable with the fact that his band used pre-recorded backing vocals in its live shows, claiming that he preferred to watch groups whose performances are delivered entirely live. "I don't like it," he said. "I think a band like ours… I have to say '60s bands were my favorite — '60s and '70s bands — because they were real, like, three-piece bands or four-piece bands, and they just got up there and kicked it up. Made a mistake? So what? Sounded a little bit empty here or there? So what? It's the bigness and the rawness and the people that developed and wrote the songs and made them and presented them. To me, that's what I really like. I mean, I could put on a MÖTLEY CD and play with it all day long. I don't wanna do that."

Offline Trav86

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11022 on: March 22, 2022, 09:49:12 AM »
My controversial opinion…I’ve never been bothered by the sound of Dream Theater . That includes it’s drum sound. Not at all.

And…I saw DT three nights ago, and I had no problem with James’s performance. I never thought “oh, I don’t think he’s singing that part”. Yeah there are some vocals piped in during the harmonies. JP was never as strong a backup singer as MP. And he was hit or miss. Did it bother me, or take away from the experience? Nope. Did I feel cheated? Nope.

I guess it’s just controversial how easy it is to please me.
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Offline crystalstars17

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11023 on: March 22, 2022, 11:05:15 AM »
My controversial opinion:

I like the modern, glossy production. If that means backing and/or click tracks, then so be it. It's still LIVE to me because they are still singing/playing live, and a few feet in front of me no less. The world's seriously greatest musicians. I am grateful!

Offline bosk1

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #11024 on: March 22, 2022, 11:35:47 AM »
Or he could have just made a pre recorded statement and lip synched to it pretty bad on purpose, lol

:rollin  That would have been amazing. 
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