Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 907643 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline WilliamMunny

  • Generation Mixtape
  • Posts: 1133
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10955 on: February 22, 2022, 09:10:09 AM »
There are others here who saw shows (including the ones I saw) and can confirm or deny.  I personally thought Mike was on fire.

???  You say that like it is surprising or an anomaly.  When has he not been on fire?  I mean, I'm thrilled with Mangini in Dream Theater, and I hope he never leaves.  But whether we are talking about Portnoy's work in DT or elsewhere, he is a world class drummer and great showman.  I've never seen a live show or recording where he wasn't phenomenal.

I feel the same way.  Some of the "he hasn't progressed", "he can't do this", "he doesn't practice" talk seems to me to imply that he's regressed or is coasting.

How much more do they want him to progress? It's not like we go into a new MP song and go, "Oh god, 9/16 time to 7/8 time to 13/8 time again?! Why doesn't he try...."

I've heard some of these new prog band that try to throw in dozens of time signatures for the sake of progginess and it bores me. Portnoy is doing just fine.

I will say this though, his lack of practicing makes me wonder if his passion has waned. It doesn't affect his performance and I really can't judge his writing other than SoA which has a lot of really great moments, but I wonder if he had the choice to do it all over again if he would still choose drums?
I guess my controversial opinion of the day is (following up on my comments in the Setlist sub-forum) is that James should gracefully retire and convince the band to continue on with a singer who can handle the material, at least for the duration of this tour.

Do you really think he's having fun anymore? Having to have vocals piped in and sinking to lip-syncing. How fun can that be for him really? I get it, he needs a paycheck - but that would be a sad state of affairs if that is the only reason he presses on.

Flame shield fully engaged . . .

No need for a flame shield hereóafter all, this is the 'Controversial Opinions' thread. ;)

My counter, however, would be Robert Plant.

Here's how I look at it...you either love a 73-year-old robert plant reinterpretting the Zep classics (singing a different (wayyyy lower) key with a dramatically different voice), or you prefer to go to a local bar where some 23-year old nails the songs just like the record.



...and the vast, vast, vast majority would choose the former over the latter.

Same goes with DT. Replace James and watch their popularity tank. The only bands that had more success with a replacement vocalist were bands like Deep Purple who hadn't reached a very significant degree of popularity in the first place.

It's a crazy short list, for sure.

Maybe only AC/DC and VH come to mind, and really, the former was obviously out of necessity while the latter divided a massive (compared to DT) fanbase.

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12047
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10956 on: February 22, 2022, 09:31:47 AM »
I will say this though, his lack of practicing makes me wonder if his passion has waned.

I doubt it, and largely because the "lack of practicing" is almost always taken out of context when it is thrown around.  From what I understand, he does still practice A LOT.  What he said was (paraphrase) that he no longer does a "typical practice session" where he goes through drills and rudiments and such, and instead practices songs.  And as I recall, the reason he gave is that he doesn't have time for that type of practice because he is involved in so many projects with so many different songs to play, and he is involved in so many other aspects of the music and other things in his life.  So maybe we can argue that he might lack passion for a certain type of practice session.  But I highly doubt he has lost his passion for drumming or for music.  I think what he describes is natural.  Most people who have done a job for over 30 years do the job much differently at that point in their career than someone who is just starting out or is somewhere in their first decade.  There usually isn't much of a need to keep practicing the basics anymore. 
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Online pg1067

  • Posts: 11474
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10957 on: February 22, 2022, 10:05:27 AM »
As long as James wants to be up there, then so do I. I would rather go see James performing imperfectly than someone else nailing it. I want to go see Dream Theater, not someone performing Dream Theater. And James is DT.

I agree with a lot of this but also disagree with a fair amount.  I don't want to see James performing imperfectly if the imperfection is a result of his inability to handle the material.

Comparisons may be unfair, but I think this one is apt.  Ray Alder of Fates Warning and and was a contemporary of James.  Their vocal styles are and always have been quite similar.  Ray is a few years younger (and, like James, not the original singer for the band).  I saw FW four times between 1989-94.  The first time, Ray was bad.  I met the band in the parking lot, and Ray was smoking (i.e., actively trying to damage his instrument).  JLB never did that, but he did suffer the well known vocal chord injury in the mid-'90s.  After the 1994 show, I didn't see FW again until 2010 and then again in 2013.  The 2010 show was a reunion of the lineup from their best known album Parallels, and the 2013 show was in support of their first new release in nine years.  I had never heard Ray sound better than he did in 2010 and 2013.  Listen to FW's 2018 live release, and he sounds incredible.  Why?  I assume part of it is that he no longer smokes, but he also re-wrote the vocal lines that have higher parts that he can't hit anymore.  He sung flawlessly, and I've NEVER heard anyone object to the re-written vocal parts.  James should be doing this but, AFAIK, isn't.  Instead, they tune down and pipe in recorded vocals to cover and support James.  I simply do not understand why they wouldn't take the time to re-write vocal lines so that James can continue to shine.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Online gzarruk

  • Posts: 4735
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10958 on: February 22, 2022, 11:01:41 AM »
There are others here who saw shows (including the ones I saw) and can confirm or deny.  I personally thought Mike was on fire.

???  You say that like it is surprising or an anomaly.  When has he not been on fire?  I mean, I'm thrilled with Mangini in Dream Theater, and I hope he never leaves.  But whether we are talking about Portnoy's work in DT or elsewhere, he is a world class drummer and great showman.  I've never seen a live show or recording where he wasn't phenomenal.

I feel the same way.  Some of the "he hasn't progressed", "he can't do this", "he doesn't practice" talk seems to me to imply that he's regressed or is coasting.

How much more do they want him to progress? It's not like we go into a new MP song and go, "Oh god, 9/16 time to 7/8 time to 13/8 time again?! Why doesn't he try...."

I've heard some of these new prog band that try to throw in dozens of time signatures for the sake of progginess and it bores me. Portnoy is doing just fine.

I will say this though, his lack of practicing makes me wonder if his passion has waned. It doesn't affect his performance and I really can't judge his writing other than SoA which has a lot of really great moments, but I wonder if he had the choice to do it all over again if he would still choose drums?

I think the point made here originally wasn't that Mike P isn't good anymore, but that he couldn't (accurately) perform Mike M's drum parts live without REALLY trying to. Best example of this? Derek Sherinian's Apocalypse 1470 B.C. (originally performed by Virgil Donati, a much more "technical" drummer than MP, and more similar to MM in that regard) performed by PSMS. Mike simplified that polyrhythmic pattern a lot while performing it live. Could he have done a better job if he took enough time to do it, specially considering they played it for a whole tour? I'd say so. Same thing applies here to Derek, who I'm sure had a lot of practicing to do to play Acid Rain properly :P (and he did).

BTW, this is a completely different scenario to the recent comments from Mark Zonder who said Mike couldn't play his drum parts accurately, but that was for a last minute one-off fill-in gig. Very different case.

As long as James wants to be up there, then so do I. I would rather go see James performing imperfectly than someone else nailing it. I want to go see Dream Theater, not someone performing Dream Theater. And James is DT.

Me too, and I think most people here would say the same. But the recent "controversy" here hasn't been because of him performing imperfectly, but because he seems to be trying to hide behind backing tracks to give a false sense of perfect performance, at least during a section from BITS. That's a completely different thing.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 40189
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10959 on: February 22, 2022, 11:15:08 AM »
I'm out of my depth because I haven't seen any DT show where I was convinced the vocals were piped, and the last time I did see DT (The Astonishing) I thought James was fine.

Having said that, I've seen many shows recently where the vocals were undoubtedly live, and undoubtedly something lesser than the pristine recorded studio versions.   Michael Schenker is one such example; The Cult and Iron Maiden were others; I wouldn't trade any of those shows for perfect vocals by some no name. 


And not a huge point, but I can't let it pass:  The Deep Purple point depends on which change you mean; they improved their station with the move from Rod Evans to Ian Gillan, much the same way that Maiden improved from Di'Anno to Dickinson, or DT improved from Charlie to James.  With Gillan, they were one of the bigger bands in the world, and did just fine changing from Gillan to Coverdale.  They floundered when Blackmore lost interest, not because of the switch in singer.


Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10960 on: February 22, 2022, 11:44:50 AM »
I'm out of my depth because I haven't seen any DT show where I was convinced the vocals were piped, and the last time I did see DT (The Astonishing) I thought James was fine.

This is also my experience. I've seen the allegations about lipsyncing on BitS, but I would want to see better evidence than cell phone videos and hear James's response before passing judgment. I do wish they would throw out the backing tracks entirely, but there's a real difference between a backing vocal and a lead vocal in that connection.
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline Madman Shepherd

  • Posts: 3547
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10961 on: February 22, 2022, 12:01:44 PM »
As long as James wants to be up there, then so do I. I would rather go see James performing imperfectly than someone else nailing it. I want to go see Dream Theater, not someone performing Dream Theater. And James is DT.

I agree with a lot of this but also disagree with a fair amount.  I don't want to see James performing imperfectly if the imperfection is a result of his inability to handle the material.

Comparisons may be unfair, but I think this one is apt.  Ray Alder of Fates Warning and and was a contemporary of James.  Their vocal styles are and always have been quite similar.  Ray is a few years younger (and, like James, not the original singer for the band).  I saw FW four times between 1989-94.  The first time, Ray was bad.  I met the band in the parking lot, and Ray was smoking (i.e., actively trying to damage his instrument).  JLB never did that, but he did suffer the well known vocal chord injury in the mid-'90s.  After the 1994 show, I didn't see FW again until 2010 and then again in 2013.  The 2010 show was a reunion of the lineup from their best known album Parallels, and the 2013 show was in support of their first new release in nine years.  I had never heard Ray sound better than he did in 2010 and 2013.  Listen to FW's 2018 live release, and he sounds incredible. 

I cannot agree at all that he sounds incredible. He sounds fine and I'm not a huge Fates Warning fan so I dont have a ton of skin in the game but I just don't think this is a great comparison.

BTW, James does alter some of the lines now and did quite a bit for the I&W 2017 tour. I think they sound pretty good and don't mind it at all.

Online Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15493
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10962 on: February 22, 2022, 12:50:04 PM »
As long as James wants to be up there, then so do I. I would rather go see James performing imperfectly than someone else nailing it. I want to go see Dream Theater, not someone performing Dream Theater. And James is DT.

I agree with a lot of this but also disagree with a fair amount.  I don't want to see James performing imperfectly if the imperfection is a result of his inability to handle the material.

Comparisons may be unfair, but I think this one is apt.  Ray Alder of Fates Warning and and was a contemporary of James.  Their vocal styles are and always have been quite similar.  Ray is a few years younger (and, like James, not the original singer for the band).  I saw FW four times between 1989-94.  The first time, Ray was bad.  I met the band in the parking lot, and Ray was smoking (i.e., actively trying to damage his instrument).  JLB never did that, but he did suffer the well known vocal chord injury in the mid-'90s.  After the 1994 show, I didn't see FW again until 2010 and then again in 2013.  The 2010 show was a reunion of the lineup from their best known album Parallels, and the 2013 show was in support of their first new release in nine years.  I had never heard Ray sound better than he did in 2010 and 2013.  Listen to FW's 2018 live release, and he sounds incredible. 

I cannot agree at all that he sounds incredible. He sounds fine and I'm not a huge Fates Warning fan so I dont have a ton of skin in the game but I just don't think this is a great comparison.

BTW, James does alter some of the lines now and did quite a bit for the I&W 2017 tour. I think they sound pretty good and don't mind it at all.

And some people didn't take all too well with him changing those vocal parts.

I wouldn't go to the lengths to say that the band should not play certain songs if JLB can't hit those notes. I wouldn't mind if he changes up the melodies to better suit his vocal style, while still keeping in key with the song. I may not agree with the choices he makes, but I don't care much because there is more to the song then JLB's vocals.

I didn't and don't really care if the band/JLB decides to plug in vocals while JLB mimes to give his vocals enough time to rest so he can actually hit the more tougher notes live. For me, as long as the music is still live, I don't care if the vocals are not. It's due to how difficult it is to sing consistently from night to night, compared to an instrument that is easy to properly keep in tune night to night.

One good example of a struggling vocalist would be Joe Walsh. Look at what Kansas as a band decided to do, and they sound amazing now. At least JLB isn't that bad.

It's also how the band perceives how the audience listens to the band. If they perceive the audience treats them as musical virtuosos who are perfect at their craft of music, their live shows must reflect that precision, this includes the vocals. I feel if the the band and the audience recognizes that the vocals of JLB are not how they used to be due to whatever, could be the effects of aging, who knows but JLB, then the band wouldn't resort to piping in vocals, and letting JLB just sing the song however he chooses even if it's lowering the melody down immensely.

But i'm not really invested into this because we do not know the reasons for why they are deciding to do this.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Offline Madman Shepherd

  • Posts: 3547
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10963 on: February 22, 2022, 02:02:11 PM »

I didn't and don't really care if the band/JLB decides to plug in vocals while JLB mimes to give his vocals enough time to rest so he can actually hit the more tougher notes live. For me, as long as the music is still live, I don't care if the vocals are not. It's due to how difficult it is to sing consistently from night to night, compared to an instrument that is easy to properly keep in tune night to night.



Totally agree (as long as its not too much). Miming the F# would be shitty. But lightly singing to a backing track to a part that is not all that vocally challenging to give yourself enough air to sing the next line, eh, not ideal but whatever.

Offline DragonAttack

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 3885
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10964 on: February 22, 2022, 02:12:20 PM »
This will be my thirteenth DT concert since going to see Queensryche with my wife in '03, and then somehow being smitten with THIS band.

My fourth time cohosting a preshow in a few weeks in DC.

And......  I truly hate the setlist.  'Misunderstood', 'S2N' or 'Room 137', 'As I Am',.....something, anything or two to change the pace throughout the show, that hasn't been played, would have been a treat.

Instead...it's waaaay too much of 'View' and too many 12-18 minute tracks that seem to be somewhat of a nightmare to remember.  Yeah, I'll enjoy the experience, but not the setlist.
...going along with Dragon Attack's Queen thread has been like taking a free class in Queen knowledge. Where else are you gonna find info like that?!

Offline Vmadera00

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4852
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10965 on: February 22, 2022, 02:26:16 PM »
Well, and with that I guess I should really stay out of this part of the forum for the next 2 weeks. Setlist has been spoiled enough already.

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10966 on: February 22, 2022, 05:53:51 PM »
I don't know how controversial this is, but I wanted to share: I was just listening to the Happy Holidays release, and when Peruvian Skies started, I literally thought I was suddenly listening to Metallica's Bleeding Me, even though I knew I was listening to DT. I don't think the song is "Pink Floyd + Metallica" as it is often described to be; I think it's straight up two sides of Metallica.
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline Skeever

  • Posts: 2721
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10967 on: February 22, 2022, 06:41:23 PM »
This will be my thirteenth DT concert since going to see Queensryche with my wife in '03, and then somehow being smitten with THIS band.

My fourth time cohosting a preshow in a few weeks in DC.

And......  I truly hate the setlist.  'Misunderstood', 'S2N' or 'Room 137', 'As I Am',.....something, anything or two to change the pace throughout the show, that hasn't been played, would have been a treat.

Instead...it's waaaay too much of 'View' and too many 12-18 minute tracks that seem to be somewhat of a nightmare to remember.  Yeah, I'll enjoy the experience, but not the setlist.

Maybe you owe it to yourself to experience these songs live before you write off their inclusion in a setlist.

Offline Trav86

  • Posts: 1576
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10968 on: February 22, 2022, 07:09:51 PM »
This will be my thirteenth DT concert since going to see Queensryche with my wife in '03, and then somehow being smitten with THIS band.

My fourth time cohosting a preshow in a few weeks in DC.

And......  I truly hate the setlist.  'Misunderstood', 'S2N' or 'Room 137', 'As I Am',.....something, anything or two to change the pace throughout the show, that hasn't been played, would have been a treat.

Instead...it's waaaay too much of 'View' and too many 12-18 minute tracks that seem to be somewhat of a nightmare to remember.  Yeah, I'll enjoy the experience, but not the setlist.

Maybe you owe it to yourself to experience these songs live before you write off their inclusion in a setlist.

My thoughts exactly. They may have been played before, but this could very likely be the last time some of them are played. Nothing in this set is a commonly played or an overplayed song. Yeah, you may not like all of them, but it is what it is. My show is less than a month away and I canít wait!
Can't we find the minds
to lead us closer to the heart?

Offline geeeemo

  • Posts: 967
  • Gender: Female
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10969 on: February 22, 2022, 09:10:36 PM »
This will be my thirteenth DT concert since going to see Queensryche with my wife in '03, and then somehow being smitten with THIS band.

My fourth time cohosting a preshow in a few weeks in DC.

And......  I truly hate the setlist.  'Misunderstood', 'S2N' or 'Room 137', 'As I Am',.....something, anything or two to change the pace throughout the show, that hasn't been played, would have been a treat.

Instead...it's waaaay too much of 'View' and too many 12-18 minute tracks that seem to be somewhat of a nightmare to remember.  Yeah, I'll enjoy the experience, but not the setlist.

Maybe you owe it to yourself to experience these songs live before you write off their inclusion in a setlist.

My thoughts exactly. They may have been played before, but this could very likely be the last time some of them are played. Nothing in this set is a commonly played or an overplayed song. Yeah, you may not like all of them, but it is what it is. My show is less than a month away and I canít wait!

Dream Theater is like pizza and sex. It may not all be your favorite, but its all good.

Offline Trav86

  • Posts: 1576
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10970 on: February 23, 2022, 02:26:01 AM »
This will be my thirteenth DT concert since going to see Queensryche with my wife in '03, and then somehow being smitten with THIS band.

My fourth time cohosting a preshow in a few weeks in DC.

And......  I truly hate the setlist.  'Misunderstood', 'S2N' or 'Room 137', 'As I Am',.....something, anything or two to change the pace throughout the show, that hasn't been played, would have been a treat.

Instead...it's waaaay too much of 'View' and too many 12-18 minute tracks that seem to be somewhat of a nightmare to remember.  Yeah, I'll enjoy the experience, but not the setlist.

Maybe you owe it to yourself to experience these songs live before you write off their inclusion in a setlist.

My thoughts exactly. They may have been played before, but this could very likely be the last time some of them are played. Nothing in this set is a commonly played or an overplayed song. Yeah, you may not like all of them, but it is what it is. My show is less than a month away and I canít wait!

Dream Theater is like pizza and sex. It may not all be your favorite, but its all good.

Strange, yet perfect analogy.
Can't we find the minds
to lead us closer to the heart?

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 69096
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10971 on: February 23, 2022, 06:37:26 AM »
Not all pizza is good.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 40189
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10972 on: February 23, 2022, 07:53:16 AM »
Not all pizza is good.

But she said pizza AND sex.  That's a combo that can't be beat (though I can't say I've actually ever eaten pizza while having sex). 

Offline Dublagent66

  • Devouring consciousness...
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9695
  • Gender: Male
  • ...Digesting power
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10973 on: February 23, 2022, 08:17:11 AM »
Not all pizza, not all sex, and not all DT is good.
"Two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Albert Einstein
"There's not a pill you can take.  There's not a class you can go to.  Stupid is foreva."  -Ron White

Online pg1067

  • Posts: 11474
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10974 on: February 23, 2022, 10:31:37 AM »
And......  I truly hate the setlist.  'Misunderstood', 'S2N' or 'Room 137', 'As I Am',.....something, anything or two to change the pace throughout the show, that hasn't been played, would have been a treat.

Instead...it's waaaay too much of 'View' and too many 12-18 minute tracks that seem to be somewhat of a nightmare to remember.  Yeah, I'll enjoy the experience, but not the setlist.

I get not caring for a set list, but this is an odd bunch of complaints.  They're touring in support of View, so it doesn't seem at all unusual that about 40% of the set list would be songs from that album.  Also, the ONLY song in the set list in the 12-18 minute range is TMOLS (if you don't like TMOLS, then maybe that's too many; I'm not a fan of the song, but it worked well live).  The first three songs are all heavy but also are different.  If Endless Sacrifice, About to Crash and TMOLS aren't changes of pace, I don't know what means, and TCOT has several internal changes of pace.


Dream Theater is like pizza and sex. It may not all be your favorite, but its all good.

Some people put anchovies on pizza and Chicago-style pizza exists.  Dream Theater put out songs like New Millennium, The Great Debate and Repentance.  As far as sex, well...if you've never had bad sex, then kudos to you, but I can assure you that bad sex exists.   :)
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline svisser

  • Pineapple. I like to eat it.
  • Posts: 205
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10975 on: February 23, 2022, 11:33:35 AM »
I don't know how controversial this is, but I wanted to share: I was just listening to the Happy Holidays release, and when Peruvian Skies started, I literally thought I was suddenly listening to Metallica's Bleeding Me, even though I knew I was listening to DT. I don't think the song is "Pink Floyd + Metallica" as it is often described to be; I think it's straight up two sides of Metallica.

The first time I heard that song I thought this as well. Not a bad thing. I think both DT and Metallica were trying on the grunge thing at this point. I  like how they break into Enter Sandman for the last part of the song when they play live.
She can turn a drop of water
         Into an ocean
                                           In the room the women come and go
                                                 Talking of Michelangelo.

Offline svisser

  • Pineapple. I like to eat it.
  • Posts: 205
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10976 on: February 23, 2022, 11:46:21 AM »
As long as James wants to be up there, then so do I. I would rather go see James performing imperfectly than someone else nailing it. I want to go see Dream Theater, not someone performing Dream Theater. And James is DT.

I used to be very critical of James but not anymore. After awhile I realized that he is the voice of DT and it would be weird to see someone else up there. He was on Images and Words and Scenes From A Memory, not someone else.

There are countless famous bands with singers that have aged horribly, but true fans don't care about that. The band they grew up with is what they want to see. Simple as that.

This sounds cheesy but the last time I saw them was 2014 in Vancouver. James was pretty decent the whole night. After the show when they were doing the curtain call, I was in my seat in row 5 when James looked right at me and gave me the metal horns. I could have cared less how good he sounded that night. It was James Labrie saluting me!! Like, holy shit. It's ike a god comes down to your level to say hello. I will never forget that moment. I am even tearing up and getting goosebumps typing about it.
She can turn a drop of water
         Into an ocean
                                           In the room the women come and go
                                                 Talking of Michelangelo.

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10977 on: February 23, 2022, 11:54:45 AM »
That's a great story!

You can also tell from James's interviews how seriously he takes his craft. His interview with Elizabeth Zharoff was especially great in this regard, since she got him to open up about a lot of the more technical side of singing.
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline crystalstars17

  • Defender of Angels ✨
  • Posts: 324
  • Gender: Female
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10978 on: February 23, 2022, 09:01:44 PM »
As long as James wants to be up there, then so do I. I would rather go see James performing imperfectly than someone else nailing it. I want to go see Dream Theater, not someone performing Dream Theater. And James is DT.

I used to be very critical of James but not anymore. After awhile I realized that he is the voice of DT and it would be weird to see someone else up there. He was on Images and Words and Scenes From A Memory, not someone else.

There are countless famous bands with singers that have aged horribly, but true fans don't care about that. The band they grew up with is what they want to see. Simple as that.

This sounds cheesy but the last time I saw them was 2014 in Vancouver. James was pretty decent the whole night. After the show when they were doing the curtain call, I was in my seat in row 5 when James looked right at me and gave me the metal horns. I could have cared less how good he sounded that night. It was James Labrie saluting me!! Like, holy shit. It's ike a god comes down to your level to say hello. I will never forget that moment. I am even tearing up and getting goosebumps typing about it.

I'm tearing up too just reading your post! I'll never forget what it was like to meet him.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2022, 05:12:36 AM by crystalstars17 »

Offline ErHaO

  • Posts: 2786
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10979 on: February 27, 2022, 04:12:50 PM »

I didn't and don't really care if the band/JLB decides to plug in vocals while JLB mimes to give his vocals enough time to rest so he can actually hit the more tougher notes live. For me, as long as the music is still live, I don't care if the vocals are not. It's due to how difficult it is to sing consistently from night to night, compared to an instrument that is easy to properly keep in tune night to night.



Totally agree (as long as its not too much). Miming the F# would be shitty. But lightly singing to a backing track to a part that is not all that vocally challenging to give yourself enough air to sing the next line, eh, not ideal but whatever.

To me singing is not about hitting that highest note in the piece. If you need to take a pause during a song in order to hit the next note, it means you can't sing that section. Just as much as you can't sing the high note if it was necessary to fake that.

This is how I feel in general, I have not seen the latest DT shows/clips, so am not talking about DT specifically.


Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13136
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10980 on: February 27, 2022, 06:02:56 PM »
I am torn on this. I am basically of the opinion that:

If you need to take a pause during a song in order to hit the next note, it means you can't sing that section.

...but I don't know how much I want any artist to write and record material based on if/how they can perform it live on a regular basis. I get that with rock music, that's part of the deal. But if James said "hey guys, I can totally do that part in Learning to Live in the studio, but there's no way I am pulling that off at a show..." do we want him to belt it out for the album, knowing live we'll get something different? As long is it is "real" when done in the studio, I think I would be cool with that.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Online Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15493
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10981 on: February 27, 2022, 08:53:49 PM »
I am torn on this. I am basically of the opinion that:

If you need to take a pause during a song in order to hit the next note, it means you can't sing that section.

...but I don't know how much I want any artist to write and record material based on if/how they can perform it live on a regular basis. I get that with rock music, that's part of the deal. But if James said "hey guys, I can totally do that part in Learning to Live in the studio, but there's no way I am pulling that off at a show..." do we want him to belt it out for the album, knowing live we'll get something different? As long is it is "real" when done in the studio, I think I would be cool with that.

Well, Musicians make songs as a craft. So if the song requires a certain note to achieve a certain sound and quality to the song. I say, why not make the studio the best possible way you imagine the song to be.

For me, I'd rather they do their best in the studio, but live they can try and achieve it, but if not, I can understand why.

Also, I am glad the guys aren't letting thier singer hinder their choice to play a song live.

I find it hilarious though, because of the bands I enjoy that I have seen live, I have never heard my favorite from them at all. I have no idea why, but I tend to like the songs that most bands don't consider playing live.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 40189
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10982 on: February 28, 2022, 05:08:33 AM »
I have no idea why, but I tend to like the songs that most bands don't consider playing live.

That's me too; I won't say "never", but certainly, "rarely".

Offline TheCountOfNYC

  • Posts: 5377
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10983 on: February 28, 2022, 06:01:59 AM »
I have no idea why, but I tend to like the songs that most bands don't consider playing live.

That's me too; I won't say "never", but certainly, "rarely".

I know this pain all too well. Outside of Metallica and Sum 41, who each play my favorite song by them at every show, I think Iíve seek my favorite song by a band Iím seeing maybe three times, and Iíve never seen Dream Theater and Avenged Sevenfold (the other two bands in my top three with Metallica) play my favorite song by them.
People figured out that the white thing that comes out of cows' titties could be drunk, and the relation between sweet desires and women's bellies growing up for 9 months. It can't be THAT hard to figure out how a trumpet works.Ē

-MirrorMask

Online gzarruk

  • Posts: 4735
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10984 on: February 28, 2022, 09:20:10 AM »
I think they should've actually called Mikael Akerfeldt to do the "day after day" section in ANTR as Mike originally wanted. I'm not a fan of growling vocals but would've preferred that to what we actually got :)
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Trav86

  • Posts: 1576
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10985 on: February 28, 2022, 09:45:57 AM »
I think they should've actually called Mikael Akerfeldt to do the "day after day" section in ANTR as Mike originally wanted. I'm not a fan of growling vocals but would've preferred that to what we actually got :)

They should have called him to sing all of Repentance as well. 
Can't we find the minds
to lead us closer to the heart?

Online gzarruk

  • Posts: 4735
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10986 on: February 28, 2022, 10:47:11 AM »
I think they should've actually called Mikael Akerfeldt to do the "day after day" section in ANTR as Mike originally wanted. I'm not a fan of growling vocals but would've preferred that to what we actually got :)

They should have called him to sing all of Repentance as well.

To be fair, he *does* appear in the song, but not the way we would've wanted him to be :lol

At least he guested for both of these songs in live performances for Progressive Nation, but I'm still hoping for a real MA guest spot on a DT studio album.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Kram

  • Posts: 1167
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10987 on: February 28, 2022, 11:45:00 AM »
I think they should've actually called Mikael Akerfeldt to do the "day after day" section in ANTR as Mike originally wanted. I'm not a fan of growling vocals but would've preferred that to what we actually got :)
Akerfeldt is the greatest growler off all-time IMO.  Certainly when he was in his prime.  LOVE early Opeth!

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 40189
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10988 on: February 28, 2022, 12:42:26 PM »
I think they should've actually called Mikael Akerfeldt to do the "day after day" section in ANTR as Mike originally wanted. I'm not a fan of growling vocals but would've preferred that to what we actually got :)
Akerfeldt is the greatest growler off all-time IMO.  Certainly when he was in his prime.  LOVE early Opeth!

Which is kind of like saying "is the greatest farter of all-time".  I guess it's a skill, but we can't assume it's a skill appreciated by everyone. :)

Offline Kram

  • Posts: 1167
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10989 on: February 28, 2022, 01:08:56 PM »
I think they should've actually called Mikael Akerfeldt to do the "day after day" section in ANTR as Mike originally wanted. I'm not a fan of growling vocals but would've preferred that to what we actually got :)
Akerfeldt is the greatest growler off all-time IMO.  Certainly when he was in his prime.  LOVE early Opeth!

Which is kind of like saying "is the greatest farter of all-time".  I guess it's a skill, but we can't assume it's a skill appreciated by everyone. :)
Fair enough.  I know personally, I'm a much better farter than I am growler.  But I recognize it's not easy to be considered "great" at either "skill".  So I have a lot of respect for both LOL