Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[darkshade]

SoA sound  just like another one of MPs side projects that will likely last a maximum of 3 studio albums and 3 live DVDs then call it a day before he moves on.

He needs to stop writing and recording all his albums in like a a week and really focus on writing a GREAT album that will stand up

to DT's best work. Didn't SOA have two songs that sounded exactly the same on their last album ?

That's what happens when you force yourself to write an hour of music in 7 days.

Especially with new bands where chemistry hasn't been established yet.
It would make more sense if there was more improv involved in MP's side projects, but there rarely is.
With Neal Morse-related projects, it's one thing, because Neal (and Roine in TA) have massive amounts of ideas to bring in every session, and at this point, MP has been working with those guys for over 20 years.
With rock or prog related music, there needs to be a marinating phase, otherwise, the music sounds unfinished. That's when you get songs that have choruses that don't sound like they fit with the verses surrounding them, and then you also get pretty standard (boring) song structures.

[gzarruk]

It's also one thing to write an album with Neal Morse (who could write half of it while he's having lunch), and other people who need more time to craft their songs and musical ideas. In the case of SOA, they're all incredible musicians, but that doesn't mean they can write great stuff by themselves.
As stated before, Bumblefoot doesn't really write memorable riffs/melodies and even Derek relies heavily on co-writers (like Simon Phillips) for his solo stuff. Mike doesn't write (almost) at all and he can only use his production/arranging skills with the material the other guys bring in.

[HOF]

I wish they had gone with the PSMS lineup and brought in a different singer (no idea who). Not sure what kind of health MacAlpine was in at that point, but there was already chemistry and history there with the four of them all having worked together and on separate projects.

[darkshade]

It does highlight the fact that Dream Theater, with all their skills and technique, have songwriting skills to back them up, and always have. While I am not the biggest fan of the Mangini era, I'll still listen to those albums, even The Astonishing, over much of MP's own projects since his departure, I admit I haven't heard every album by every band MP has formed since 2010, either. Most of what he's been involved with that I listen to more frequently are projects related to DT (LTE3, Terminal Velocity) or involving those who can write good music (Neal Morse, TA, Roine Stolt, etc..) and he had been working with them when he was in DT as well. So to me, no project created since his leaving the band has left a memorable impression on me, aside from a few tracks from Flying Colors; and The Neal Morse Band is more than just Neal solo, that's a band with input from all members, so that's a good new band. They really are Spock's Theater, with the guitarist Eric Gillette bringing in JP-isms previously unheard on Neal Morse albums, but without being a JP clone and having his own style.

To me, much of his projects over the last 10-12 years seem like hooking up with any working musician that MP had communication with and was available just because MP was "out of a job", and putting out some sounds for the sake of it, instead of there being more natural connection or gelling of the musicians to create something cool, creative, and new.

I always hoped MP would form the Mike Portnoy Group (MPG) featuring a lineup of great musicians but whom could write music and collaborate with Mike and his creative vision (something which can only take you so far depending on the wealth of creative ideas the other musicians have)

[Stadler]

I don't know what AOR singers you listen to but Jeff doesn't sound like that at all.  I'm not saying I love SoA.  I find them average at best but I don't hear Jeff singing radio songs.

Hahaha he was literally in Journey (albeit for a short while).

Idk, his voice just sounds like quintessential 80s cheese to me- that Stan Bush, Robert Tepper, Joe Lynn Turner vibe. He's a talented vocalist, for sure- I just have a hard time taking him seriously.

I wouldn't put Joe Lynn Turner in the same boat.   At any given time he's my favorite singer in Rainbow (yes, I know what I'm saying there) and I don't see much similarity with Jeff.

Jeff might have been in Journey, but that doesn't make it a good fit, so there's that.

And all respect to Kotowboy, but I think the "take time to write" thing is overblown.  The guys can and do bring in things from outside, so the "writing" isn't the issue to me.  I think it's the categories.   It's the "this is my PROG project, this is my METAL project, this is my prog metal project".   The best of his work - both within and without DT - was independent of genre.   I LOVED I&W because it WASN'T stuck in a genre rut.   it's only when they started to get specific - ToT: this is our metal album - that it started to sort of suffer.  Neal is hardcore prog, no doubt, but there's less rigidity in the NM/NMB/TA stuff than some of the other projects, which, to me, tend to be more one-dimensional.  No mystery which ones I like better.

[emtee]

Yeah, JLT is one of my favorite vocalists.

[darkshade]

Correct. TA/NM is 'anything goes' which was what used to be the DT mantra more or less until around TOT. I think that is when MP shines, when there are no restrictions in regards to genre.

[Revenge319]

This is just a small thing, and I don't know if this is even controversial, but I don't like the kaleidoscope designs they're doing for the artwork on the Lost Not Forgotten archive releases. It looks alright on the "A Dramatic Tour of Events" CD, but I don't think it looks good at all on the other ones...

[Kotowboy]

To me it's completely fine. It's an official bootleg. Nothing fancy. Not a big release. It needs a picture. That'll do.

[Madman Shepherd]

SoA sound  just like another one of MPs side projects that will likely last a maximum of 3 studio albums and 3 live DVDs then call it a day before he moves on.

He needs to stop writing and recording all his albums in like a a week and really focus on writing a GREAT album that will stand up

to DT's best work. Didn't SOA have two songs that sounded exactly the same on their last album ?

That's what happens when you force yourself to write an hour of music in 7 days.

That's also why I think MMXX is so much better than the debut. They took a lot of time to write that from jamming ideas at shows, to recording the core of the music, to weeks and maybe months of touchups and additions.

[Setlist Scotty]

To me it's completely fine. It's an official bootleg. Nothing fancy. Not a big release. It needs a picture. That'll do.

I think the way they were done for YJR releases was better - they were still clearly official bootlegs, but there was a single image closely related to whatever the release was that was easy to recognize/relate to. These kaleidoscope designs are way more obscure and hard to understand than the JM lyrics you love to bag on!   

I realize now that they are under a different branding, they wanted something different but still somewhat uniform across all the official bootleg releases, but I imagine that they could've come up with a better idea than what they've chosen to go with.

[Cool Chris]

To me it's completely fine. It's an official bootleg. Nothing fancy. Not a big release. It needs a picture. That'll do.

Fair point, but I would like a little more for my favorite band than "that'll do," regardless of what the product/release actually is.

[Stadler]

To me it's completely fine. It's an official bootleg. Nothing fancy. Not a big release. It needs a picture. That'll do.

I think the way they were done for YJR releases was better - they were still clearly official bootlegs, but there was a single image closely related to whatever the release was that was easy to recognize/relate to. These kaleidoscope designs are way more obscure and hard to understand than the JM lyrics you love to bag on!   

I realize now that they are under a different branding, they wanted something different but still somewhat uniform across all the official bootleg releases, but I imagine that they could've come up with a better idea than what they've chosen to go with.

I haven't really taken the time to look at the new stuff - I'm going to order the first two this week (but my OCD is bristling at not having a complete set without rebuying the stuff I already have! Hahaha!) - but the older stuff was cool.  I liked the inset, I liked the wax seal, I thought it was appropriate.  I've always liked the artwork around Dream Theater, to be honest (including the Fan Club releases) except for the first album. 

[Dream Team]

Not exactly controversial, but best place to post I guess. I was reading through a DT thread on another forum regarding James' live performances, and the guy pointed out something that I can't unhear now - even all the way back on AWAKE James was turning every vowel sound into an "a" which of course is what he does all the time now live . . .

The devil in my bad . . .
Voisaahs recalling mae . . .
Lifting shadows off a drame . . .
Can't hear aaaht, we fear aaaht . . .
Fatalistic remedays . . .

I mean grrrr  . I don't want to hear "well, that's his natural accent or lazy technique", the damn producer should have kept at him. Enunciation and pronunciation, who needs 'em . . .

[bosk1]

I don't think it is his accent, and it certainly isn't "lazy" technique.  It is a correct technique mixed with stylistic elements.  If you don't like it, fine.  But there's nothing "wrong" with it that would have caused a producer to have "kept at him."

[Ben_Jamin]

Reminds me of the part in the documentary where JP is laughing at JLBs lyrics and said..."Uh-Oh. Looks like james has put himself in a conundrum because it's hard for him to say 'out' with these lyrics 'multi planet species out amongst the stars'."

I just laughed at that part and wondered how much JLB, or any non English singer, has to work on their enunciation for the studio albums. Which I find perplexing.

Accents are great in music and why I enjoy listening to non-english songs. Even live, I enjoy these non-english singers accents they have no control over live, such as Tarja not being able to really pronounce the 'E's' like in Ever Dream. And Kuolema Tekee Taiteilijan is an amazing song that showcases Tarjas amazing voice and tone, and I feel it's because her natural accents can shine without being forced back for the correct enunciation of the english words.

I am not there for perfect english. I am there to hear the singers sing the notes.

[Stadler]

Not exactly controversial, but best place to post I guess. I was reading through a DT thread on another forum regarding James' live performances, and the guy pointed out something that I can't unhear now - even all the way back on AWAKE James was turning every vowel sound into an "a" which of course is what he does all the time now live . . .

The devil in my bad . . .
Voisaahs recalling mae . . .
Lifting shadows off a drame . . .
Can't hear aaaht, we fear aaaht . . .
Fatalistic remedays . . .

I mean grrrr  . I don't want to hear "well, that's his natural accent or lazy technique", the damn producer should have kept at him. Enunciation and pronunciation, who needs 'em . . .

It wasn't just him; I've commented on this a number of times.   If you listen to the isolated tracks from the FII sessions, the background vocals do that too:  "Yewwwwwww, not maaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy!" 

I don't think it's lazy either, but it is a stylistic affectation, and not my favorite one either.

James has always been good - for better or worse - for those affectations, especially on stage.  It is what it is.  Every singer does that to some degree (can't be a Paul Stanley fan without acknowledging that!). 

[Ben_Jamin]

Not exactly controversial, but best place to post I guess. I was reading through a DT thread on another forum regarding James' live performances, and the guy pointed out something that I can't unhear now - even all the way back on AWAKE James was turning every vowel sound into an "a" which of course is what he does all the time now live . . .

The devil in my bad . . .
Voisaahs recalling mae . . .
Lifting shadows off a drame . . .
Can't hear aaaht, we fear aaaht . . .
Fatalistic remedays . . .

I mean grrrr  . I don't want to hear "well, that's his natural accent or lazy technique", the damn producer should have kept at him. Enunciation and pronunciation, who needs 'em . . .

It wasn't just him; I've commented on this a number of times.   If you listen to the isolated tracks from the FII sessions, the background vocals do that too:  "Yewwwwwww, not maaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy!" 

I don't think it's lazy either, but it is a stylistic affectation, and not my favorite one either.

James has always been good - for better or worse - for those affectations, especially on stage.  It is what it is.  Every singer does that to some degree (can't be a Paul Stanley fan without acknowledging that!).

A fantastic example is the way the word Baby is sung by the many pop singers..."Cause you'll always be my Babayyy"..

Or the example of the rappers playing with enunciation of such words like this example by Chingy..."I like the way you do right Thurr....Right down to her Hurr...that make me sturr."

I find the Chingy example to be hilarious because they are just playing around with enunciation of words to fit the style of the rhyming in the rap...

I see it as no different than a singer singing words and writing lyrics based off those words that don't really make sense, because it sounded good to sing and the melody just works with those words.

[pg1067]

When singing at higher pitches, the long "E" sounds is harder to voice correctly, so TONS of singers will use the long "A" to voice syllables that would be spoken as long "E."

[nobloodyname]

Or the example of the rappers playing with enunciation of such words like this example by Chingy..."I like the way you do right Thurr....Right down to her Hurr...that make me sturr."

At risk of sounding like the 48 year old out of touch white guy that I am, wtf is a Chingy?

[Lonk]

At risk of sounding like the 48 year old out of touch white guy that I am, wtf is a Chingy?

Rapper from the early 2000's

[Stadler]

At risk of sounding like the 48 year old out of touch white guy that I am, wtf is a Chingy?

Rapper from the early 2000's

That's what they want you to believe.   

[Lonk]

So, listening to some DT at the moment and BAI played.

I think the weakest part of the song is the solo (at least the first half or so of it).

[bosk1]

So, listening to some DT at the moment and BAI played.

I think the weakest part of the song is the solo (at least the first half or so of it).

I'll take it one step farther:  I think the weakest part of the album is BAI.  That said, it's still a good song. 

[gzarruk]

So, listening to some DT at the moment and BAI played.

I think the weakest part of the song is the solo (at least the first half or so of it).

I'll take it one step farther: I think the weakest part of the album is BAI.  That said, it's still a good song.

I know, opinions and such, but... WHAT?!

Not even taking in consideration that it is a fan favorite, I just can't agree with the bolded part when BMU,BMD and FFH exist in the same album

And, I guess it's time for my controversial opinion: I think the band could use another lineup change soon.

[SeRoX]

I think Breaking All Illusions is Mangini era's Learning To Live. One of their best along with Outcry.

[TAC]

I think Breaking All Illusions is Mangini era's Learning To Live.

Without a doubt.

[Setlist Scotty]

And, I guess it's time for my controversial opinion: I think the band could use another lineup change soon.

Who?

I think Breaking All Illusions is Mangini era's Learning To Live.

Without a doubt.

I think that's a given. Plus OtBoA is Mangini era's PMU, LNF is Mangini era's UaGM, TitL is Mangini era's AD, Outcry is Mangini era's Metropolis, and FFH is Mangini era's WFS.   

[TAC]

I think Breaking All Illusions is Mangini era's Learning To Live.

Without a doubt.

I think that's a given. Plus OtBoA is Mangini era's PMU, LNF is Mangini era's UaGM, TitL is Mangini era's AD, Outcry is Mangini era's Metropolis, and FFH is Mangini era's WFS.   

[gzarruk]

And, I guess it's time for my controversial opinion: I think the band could use another lineup change soon.

Who?

James and/or Jordan.

(Love them both, btw, I just think the band could shake things up a little bit)

[Cool Chris]

Controversial, and not feasible, opinion... the band should limit touring to limited stops/dates, and write and record a new album once every 18 months at most, as the inspiration hits them.

[Setlist Scotty]

Controversial, and not feasible, opinion... the band should limit touring to limited stops/dates, and write and record a new album once every 18 months at most, as the inspiration hits them.

I dunno how controversial that is, but yeah, probably not feasible given the fact that touring rakes in a lot more income then album sales these days.

Sort of in line with what you were saying about doing a new album every 18 months, I wouldn't say that, but I would love for them to not just write enough material to fill a CD and call it a day, but given the wealth of ideas they come up with, to follow their collective muse and continue writing until they feel tapped out. Then go back and select the best/most cohesive group of songs for the album, but keep the rest for B-sides, mid-tour EPs, bonus tracks, etc. Especially now that they have the DTHQ and therefore no time limits like they used to, I cannot understand why they wouldn't do this since they all seem to love the creative aspect of writing. Last time they did anything like this was for the FII writing sessions, and several of the songs that ended up on the final tracklisting came from the songs that were written long after they had enough material for the album. How many other times could they have written other, perhaps better songs, than what ended up on some of their albums but they didn't because they got their ~75 minutes of material? We'll never know, but it's a mindset I wish they'd change.

[UndercoverMyung]

And, I guess it's time for my controversial opinion: I think the band could use another lineup change soon.

Who?

James and/or Jordan.

(Love them both, btw, I just think the band could shake things up a little bit)

Unfortunately it would make sense for Jordan to be replaced considering how much older he is than everyone else.
I'd be ok with it if it was between that or DT being done.

[Cool Chris]

I was thinking it could be controversial due to how many fans, here anyway, love seeing them live. I'd rather have more material to enjoy for the rest of my life than a couple extra live concerts.

Regarding the second part, I know you are more tuned in than I am, but do we know this is true? Maybe they are tapped out once the hit a CD's worth of material. If not, then I would agree with your premise, as it goes along with my more music and less touring ideal.

...given the wealth of ideas they come up with, to follow their collective muse and continue writing until they feel tapped out.

[Trav]

If John, John, Jordan or James decide that they are done...end the band. It's too late in the game for changes. Especially James. I'd lose a ton of respect if they tried go out with a different singer at this point.

Now Mike. If he wanted to leave, I'd be okay with Portnoy coming back. Hell, they barely play the MM era songs if they aren't on the newest album anyway.