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Your Controversial Opinions on DT

Started by Lucidity, December 17, 2012, 07:28:25 PM

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HOF

Quote from: bosk1 on June 16, 2021, 08:54:51 AM
Breaking All Illusions is on A Dramatic Turn of Events, and S2N is on Distance Over Time.  Surprised you haven't listened to anything since 8VM.  The Mangini-era albums are outstanding.

I have listened to bits and pieces of each album since then, but it's just not my thing. I did give a full listen to both the self-titled and The Astonishing I think. I only really heard whatever the lead preview track was from Distance Over Time. Octavarium was the last one where the band were still in "buy without a listen" territory for me.

bosk1

Quote from: HOF on June 16, 2021, 09:02:36 AMI did give a full listen to both the self-titled and The Astonishing I think.

For what it's worth, those are the two least liked of the Mangini era.  And whether or not you end up liking A Dramatic Turn of Events, Breaking All Illusions is probably THE fan favorite from the Mangini era.  Personally, I find the music to be outstanding, but personally don't care for the lyrics.

King Postwhore

Quote from: bosk1 on June 16, 2021, 08:54:51 AM
Breaking All Illusions is on A Dramatic Turn of Events, and S2N is on Distance Over Time.  Surprised you haven't listened to anything since 8VM.  The Mangini-era albums are outstanding.

These 2 are my favorite songs off of each album.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

ReaPsTA

Quote from: HOF on June 16, 2021, 08:49:48 AM
Quote from: bosk1 on June 16, 2021, 08:44:34 AM
Well, he wasn't "banned."  If anything, it was  "self-banning" because his style of just writing freeform and expecting others to make them work in a song didn't work with how JP and MP wanted to do things at the time.  He could very well have submitted lyrics with vocal melodies if he chose to.

As far as "recent" ones, you haven't heard BAI or S2N?

I haven't given more than a casual listen to a DT album since Octavarium. Which albums are those on?

................. You're really missing out

lovethedrake

Quote from: HOF on June 16, 2021, 09:02:36 AM
Quote from: bosk1 on June 16, 2021, 08:54:51 AM
Breaking All Illusions is on A Dramatic Turn of Events, and S2N is on Distance Over Time.  Surprised you haven't listened to anything since 8VM.  The Mangini-era albums are outstanding.

I have listened to bits and pieces of each album since then, but it's just not my thing. I did give a full listen to both the self-titled and The Astonishing I think. I only really heard whatever the lead preview track was from Distance Over Time. Octavarium was the last one where the band were still in "buy without a listen" territory for me.

I would definitely listen to At Wits End from the new album.  Thats the first song that has been in consideration for Top 10 DT songs for me since SDOIT. 

darkshade

Quote from: geeeemo on June 15, 2021, 09:27:13 PM
What took a dive for me was the Awake album. When I delved into the discography, I discovered Awake after about 8 mos. I was loving how all their different albums just sounded, well different. Awake was cool, heavy, interesting. I played it a lot. But, there are 2 songs I skip,  Erotomania and Lifting Shadows. (A Rarity!) SDV is cool, but really not that fun to listen to often. The Mirror/Lie I enjoy more live..Scarred is just Ok. I really don't understand how Super popular it is. (Except of course, that everyone is different  :))
I did play Awake though when I hosted a pre-show show fan meet-up and, it was perfect for that.

When I was a DT noob, I thought Awake was hot garbage, and avoided listening to it again for a long time.

Now I consider it a top 3 DT album, and one of the most interesting metal albums ever created.

darkshade

Quote from: bosk1 on June 16, 2021, 08:54:51 AM
The Mangini-era albums are outstanding.

**inserts controversial opinions**

geeeemo

Quote from: darkshade on June 16, 2021, 05:17:55 PM
Quote from: geeeemo on June 15, 2021, 09:27:13 PM
What took a dive for me was the Awake album. When I delved into the discography, I discovered Awake after about 8 mos. I was loving how all their different albums just sounded, well different. Awake was cool, heavy, interesting. I played it a lot. But, there are 2 songs I skip,  Erotomania and Lifting Shadows. (A Rarity!) SDV is cool, but really not that fun to listen to often. The Mirror/Lie I enjoy more live..Scarred is just Ok. I really don't understand how Super popular it is. (Except of course, that everyone is different  :))
I did play Awake though when I hosted a pre-show show fan meet-up and, it was perfect for that.

When I was a DT noob, I thought Awake was hot garbage, and avoided listening to it again for a long time.

Now I consider it a top 3 DT album, and one of the most interesting metal albums ever created.

I agree, it is very interesting. I say it fell because it was at the top for a while, now it's not. Typically I don't skip DT songs, but the two I mentioned I just really can't get into. I may only be into DT for 5 years, but I don't feel too noob-ish. Awake just lost the blinding luster it had at the beginning.

RMGadelha

Through Her Eyes is one of the few songs I skip.

nobloodyname

Quote from: darkshade on June 16, 2021, 05:17:55 PM

When I was a DT noob, I thought Awake was hot garbage, and avoided listening to it again for a long time.


I wouldn't say it's hot garbage but it's certainly in my bottom three albums (in no particular order: The Astonishing, DT12, Awake).

ReaperKK

Quote from: darkshade on June 16, 2021, 05:17:55 PM
Quote from: geeeemo on June 15, 2021, 09:27:13 PM
What took a dive for me was the Awake album. When I delved into the discography, I discovered Awake after about 8 mos. I was loving how all their different albums just sounded, well different. Awake was cool, heavy, interesting. I played it a lot. But, there are 2 songs I skip,  Erotomania and Lifting Shadows. (A Rarity!) SDV is cool, but really not that fun to listen to often. The Mirror/Lie I enjoy more live..Scarred is just Ok. I really don't understand how Super popular it is. (Except of course, that everyone is different  :))
I did play Awake though when I hosted a pre-show show fan meet-up and, it was perfect for that.

When I was a DT noob, I thought Awake was hot garbage, and avoided listening to it again for a long time.

Now I consider it a top 3 DT album, and one of the most interesting metal albums ever created.

I had the opposite reaction. When I first discovered awake I loved the album but as time passes it's ranking falls lower and lower. I think it's production has aged worse than I&W and maybe even WDADU and the songs just don't do it anymore.

Dream Team

For me it was instant dislike after falling in love with Images, then years of trying to warm up to it . . . but nah, I like Scarred and Lifting Shadows and don't bother much with the rest.

Dublagent66

Awake was a fantastic follow up to I&W which is indicative of it's top 5 ranking among fans.  I loved it then and still do. :2metal:

nikatapi

Awake was a bit weird to me, but the dark atmosphere and the impeccable production make it one of my favourites.

Volante99

Speaking as a guitarist, Awake is the best playing Petrucci has ever committed to tape. Creative, funky, progressive, heavy, and often times just flat out ferocious. If I&W established him as a prog hero, Awake cemented him as a guitar god- easily on the same level of the Vai's, Satriani's and Yngwie's of the world. Petrucci is always good, but Awake is next level; a showcase of his versatility and a treasure trove for prog metal guitarists.

The only dig on Awake, and this is probably controversial, is JLB's overly operatic, and frankly, over bearing delivery throughout. Obviously, a powerhouse performance, but I feel like instead of turning him up to 11 throughout most of the album, dialing him back a bit would have serviced the songs better. If you'll excuse a pro wrestling analogy, but it's like if you're constantly doing "high spots", it starts losing it's effect.

pg1067

Quote from: Volante99 on June 20, 2021, 09:18:49 PM
Speaking as a guitarist, Awake is the best playing Petrucci has ever committed to tape.

If this is true, it's probably because it was the last time (or close to it) anything DT did was recorded on tape (if Awake was even recorded on tape).

darkshade

JP's style in the early-mid 90s was definitely a product of his time, growing as a musician through the 1980s and early 90s, combined with a love for prog and jazz-fusion. He drifted away from much of what Volante99 describes since FII.

FII is a transitional period for JP, and I like some of his stuff on that album or on ACOS, but other times I'm not into his tone, but he was still keeping things funky here and there. From SFAM onward, is when that 80s/90s JP became modern JP. I do really enjoy JP's post-FII work though, up until and including BC&SL. Since then, I've not been a huge fan of his tone on the studio albums again, or much of his new riffs, which to me often sound more elementary for his skill level and history of cool riffs.

However, he showed us he's still got some of that classic JP still in him on LTE3, in my opinion. His guitar sounded really good again, so I believe MP co-producing (and his style and creativity) is a big reason for why JP sounds better on albums with him on drums from my view, not to mention JP+MP were born to play with each other, their sound is huge, whereas I find Mangini behind JP so lack deepness in the sound.

HOF

Quote from: darkshade on June 21, 2021, 01:04:45 PM
JP's style in the early-mid 90s was definitely a product of his time, growing as a musician through the 1980s and early 90s, combined with a love for prog and jazz-fusion. He drifted away from much of what Volante99 describes since FII.

FII is a transitional period for JP, and I like some of his stuff on that album or on ACOS, but other times I'm not into his tone, but he was still keeping things funky here and there. From SFAM onward, is when that 80s/90s JP became modern JP. I do really enjoy JP's post-FII work though, up until and including BC&SL. Since then, I've not been a huge fan of his tone on the studio albums again, or much of his new riffs, which to me often sound more elementary for his skill level and history of cool riffs.

However, he showed us he's still got some of that classic JP still in him on LTE3, in my opinion. His guitar sounded really good again, so I believe MP co-producing (and his style and creativity) is a big reason for why JP sounds better on albums with him on drums from my view, not to mention JP+MP were born to play with each other, their sound is huge, whereas I find Mangini behind JP so lack deepness in the sound.

I don't know if this is due to the guitar itself or not, but I do recall thinking JP's tone shifted a bit when he left Ibanez for Earnie Ball (I believe SFAM was the first time he used a Music Man on an album).

gzarruk

Quote from: HOF on June 21, 2021, 01:16:09 PM
Quote from: darkshade on June 21, 2021, 01:04:45 PM
JP's style in the early-mid 90s was definitely a product of his time, growing as a musician through the 1980s and early 90s, combined with a love for prog and jazz-fusion. He drifted away from much of what Volante99 describes since FII.

FII is a transitional period for JP, and I like some of his stuff on that album or on ACOS, but other times I'm not into his tone, but he was still keeping things funky here and there. From SFAM onward, is when that 80s/90s JP became modern JP. I do really enjoy JP's post-FII work though, up until and including BC&SL. Since then, I've not been a huge fan of his tone on the studio albums again, or much of his new riffs, which to me often sound more elementary for his skill level and history of cool riffs.

However, he showed us he's still got some of that classic JP still in him on LTE3, in my opinion. His guitar sounded really good again, so I believe MP co-producing (and his style and creativity) is a big reason for why JP sounds better on albums with him on drums from my view, not to mention JP+MP were born to play with each other, their sound is huge, whereas I find Mangini behind JP so lack deepness in the sound.

I don't know if this is due to the guitar itself or not, but I do recall thinking JP's tone shifted a bit when he left Ibanez for Earnie Ball (I believe SFAM was the first time he used a Music Man on an album).

Almost. SFAM was still Ibanez, but he got the first few Music Man prototypes for the SFAM tour (we can see 3 of those on the Live Scenes/Metropolis 2000 album).

darkshade

Quote from: HOF on June 21, 2021, 01:16:09 PM
Quote from: darkshade on June 21, 2021, 01:04:45 PM
JP's style in the early-mid 90s was definitely a product of his time, growing as a musician through the 1980s and early 90s, combined with a love for prog and jazz-fusion. He drifted away from much of what Volante99 describes since FII.

FII is a transitional period for JP, and I like some of his stuff on that album or on ACOS, but other times I'm not into his tone, but he was still keeping things funky here and there. From SFAM onward, is when that 80s/90s JP became modern JP. I do really enjoy JP's post-FII work though, up until and including BC&SL. Since then, I've not been a huge fan of his tone on the studio albums again, or much of his new riffs, which to me often sound more elementary for his skill level and history of cool riffs.

However, he showed us he's still got some of that classic JP still in him on LTE3, in my opinion. His guitar sounded really good again, so I believe MP co-producing (and his style and creativity) is a big reason for why JP sounds better on albums with him on drums from my view, not to mention JP+MP were born to play with each other, their sound is huge, whereas I find Mangini behind JP so lack deepness in the sound.

I don't know if this is due to the guitar itself or not, but I do recall thinking JP's tone shifted a bit when he left Ibanez for Earnie Ball (I believe SFAM was the first time he used a Music Man on an album).

I've heard that argument, but Scenes and SDoIT are like the twilight of the old JP before metal overtook DT's general approach to song writing, he still had a little of that funky style here and there on those 2 albums. His tone was definitely different, though, when he switched guitar brands.

Max Kuehnau

Quote from: pg1067 on June 21, 2021, 12:14:46 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on June 20, 2021, 09:18:49 PM
Speaking as a guitarist, Awake is the best playing Petrucci has ever committed to tape.

If this is true, it's probably because it was the last time (or close to it) anything DT did was recorded on tape (if Awake was even recorded on tape).
IIRC, either James or John mentioned that they were holding on to tape for fairly long and if memory serves, Met2 was recorded to tape and you can see tape machines running during the 6D documentaries. (I may be wrong)

HOF

Quote from: gzarruk on June 21, 2021, 01:18:57 PM
Quote from: HOF on June 21, 2021, 01:16:09 PM
Quote from: darkshade on June 21, 2021, 01:04:45 PM
JP's style in the early-mid 90s was definitely a product of his time, growing as a musician through the 1980s and early 90s, combined with a love for prog and jazz-fusion. He drifted away from much of what Volante99 describes since FII.

FII is a transitional period for JP, and I like some of his stuff on that album or on ACOS, but other times I'm not into his tone, but he was still keeping things funky here and there. From SFAM onward, is when that 80s/90s JP became modern JP. I do really enjoy JP's post-FII work though, up until and including BC&SL. Since then, I've not been a huge fan of his tone on the studio albums again, or much of his new riffs, which to me often sound more elementary for his skill level and history of cool riffs.

However, he showed us he's still got some of that classic JP still in him on LTE3, in my opinion. His guitar sounded really good again, so I believe MP co-producing (and his style and creativity) is a big reason for why JP sounds better on albums with him on drums from my view, not to mention JP+MP were born to play with each other, their sound is huge, whereas I find Mangini behind JP so lack deepness in the sound.

I don't know if this is due to the guitar itself or not, but I do recall thinking JP's tone shifted a bit when he left Ibanez for Earnie Ball (I believe SFAM was the first time he used a Music Man on an album).

Almost. SFAM was still Ibanez, but he got the first few Music Man prototypes for the SFAM tour (we can see 3 of those on the Live Scenes/Metropolis 2000 album).

That's right. LSFNY is probably where I noticed the change in tone.

Kotowboy

Quote from: bosk1 on June 16, 2021, 09:07:45 AM
Quote from: HOF on June 16, 2021, 09:02:36 AMI did give a full listen to both the self-titled and The Astonishing I think.

For what it's worth, those are the two least liked of the Mangini era.  And whether or not you end up liking A Dramatic Turn of Events, Breaking All Illusions is probably THE fan favorite from the Mangini era.  Personally, I find the music to be outstanding, but personally don't care for the lyrics.

I find all Myung lyrics to be meaningless drivel.

Ben_Jamin

Quote from: Kotowboy on June 21, 2021, 02:50:49 PM
Quote from: bosk1 on June 16, 2021, 09:07:45 AM
Quote from: HOF on June 16, 2021, 09:02:36 AMI did give a full listen to both the self-titled and The Astonishing I think.

For what it's worth, those are the two least liked of the Mangini era.  And whether or not you end up liking A Dramatic Turn of Events, Breaking All Illusions is probably THE fan favorite from the Mangini era.  Personally, I find the music to be outstanding, but personally don't care for the lyrics.

I find all Myung lyrics to be meaningless drivel.

How are they meaningless?

pg1067

Quote from: Kotowboy on June 21, 2021, 02:50:49 PM
Quote from: bosk1 on June 16, 2021, 09:07:45 AM
Quote from: HOF on June 16, 2021, 09:02:36 AMI did give a full listen to both the self-titled and The Astonishing I think.

For what it's worth, those are the two least liked of the Mangini era.  And whether or not you end up liking A Dramatic Turn of Events, Breaking All Illusions is probably THE fan favorite from the Mangini era.  Personally, I find the music to be outstanding, but personally don't care for the lyrics.

I find all Myung lyrics to be meaningless drivel.

Learning to Live is meaningless?

Fatal Tragedy is meaningless?

WilliamMunny

Quote from: Kotowboy on June 21, 2021, 02:50:49 PM
Quote from: bosk1 on June 16, 2021, 09:07:45 AM
Quote from: HOF on June 16, 2021, 09:02:36 AMI did give a full listen to both the self-titled and The Astonishing I think.

For what it's worth, those are the two least liked of the Mangini era.  And whether or not you end up liking A Dramatic Turn of Events, Breaking All Illusions is probably THE fan favorite from the Mangini era.  Personally, I find the music to be outstanding, but personally don't care for the lyrics.

I find all Myung lyrics to be meaningless drivel.

Controversial that is...agree I do not ;)

Honestly, I'm as big a 'different strokes' guy as you'll find, but this strikes me as borderline contrarian. Coming to a DT forum and posting that? You might need to show your work :rollin

KevShmev

He can't show his work for such a terrible opinion, but that is pretty normal when you consider the source.

Setlist Scotty

Quote from: Max Kuehnau on June 21, 2021, 01:27:50 PM
Quote from: pg1067 on June 21, 2021, 12:14:46 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on June 20, 2021, 09:18:49 PM
Speaking as a guitarist, Awake is the best playing Petrucci has ever committed to tape.

If this is true, it's probably because it was the last time (or close to it) anything DT did was recorded on tape (if Awake was even recorded on tape).
IIRC, either James or John mentioned that they were holding on to tape for fairly long and if memory serves, Met2 was recorded to tape and you can see tape machines running during the 6D documentaries. (I may be wrong)
Been a while since I've seen those behind the scenes clips for the SDoIT tracks, but I think you're right. I know for a fact that tape was used for FII - there was a comment made about how Kevin Shirley had recorded JP's solo for HYears and thought it was just right, even though it was perhaps a bit flawed. However, by the following day, JP was convinced it wasn't good enough and insisted on re-recording it so that it was technically perfect, which required Kevin to wipe the previous take of the solo from the tape.
Quote from: BlobVanDam on November 13, 2015, 07:37:14 PMAs a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.
Quote from: TAC on July 10, 2024, 08:26:41 AMPOW is awesome! :P

IDontNotDoThings

Quote from: KevShmev on June 21, 2021, 05:42:45 PM
He can't show his work for such a terrible opinion, but that is pretty normal when you consider the source.

that's a bit hostile, don't you think? :-\

Volante99

Quote from: Max Kuehnau on June 21, 2021, 01:27:50 PM
Quote from: pg1067 on June 21, 2021, 12:14:46 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on June 20, 2021, 09:18:49 PM
Speaking as a guitarist, Awake is the best playing Petrucci has ever committed to tape.

If this is true, it's probably because it was the last time (or close to it) anything DT did was recorded on tape (if Awake was even recorded on tape).
IIRC, either James or John mentioned that they were holding on to tape for fairly long and if memory serves, Met2 was recorded to tape and you can see tape machines running during the 6D documentaries. (I may be wrong)

I meant "tape" as an expression but maybe a poor choice of words :P

Also, I would bet real money the decision to hang onto tape for as long as possible was a Portnoy call.  :lol

Enigmachine

The thing is too, Myung lyrics by the standards of certain other prog bands aren't even that abstract. Even in the context of Dream Theater, Under a Glass Moon is probably more enigmatic in its meaning than Myung has done. I'm not sure which Myung song would come off as meaningless, given that there tends to be lines that almost give away the meaning by itself in each piece.

Kotowboy

Quote from: IDontNotDoThings on June 21, 2021, 08:58:51 PM
Quote from: KevShmev on June 21, 2021, 05:42:45 PM
He can't show his work for such a terrible opinion, but that is pretty normal when you consider the source.

that's a bit hostile, don't you think? :-\

If I said it I'd get banned again. But because somebody is saying it about me it's ok.

Max Kuehnau

Quote from: Volante99 on June 21, 2021, 09:07:08 PM
Quote from: Max Kuehnau on June 21, 2021, 01:27:50 PM
Quote from: pg1067 on June 21, 2021, 12:14:46 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on June 20, 2021, 09:18:49 PM
Speaking as a guitarist, Awake is the best playing Petrucci has ever committed to tape.

If this is true, it's probably because it was the last time (or close to it) anything DT did was recorded on tape (if Awake was even recorded on tape).
IIRC, either James or John mentioned that they were holding on to tape for fairly long and if memory serves, Met2 was recorded to tape and you can see tape machines running during the 6D documentaries. (I may be wrong)

I meant "tape" as an expression but maybe a poor choice of words :P

Also, I would bet real money the decision to hang onto tape for as long as possible was a Portnoy call.  :lol
that is indeed possible, but I distincly (well, somewhat) remember either James or John mentioning it during the Q/A held during the D/T sessions in 2018, so that's why I indicated them.

Stadler

Quote from: darkshade on June 21, 2021, 01:04:45 PM
JP's style in the early-mid 90s was definitely a product of his time, growing as a musician through the 1980s and early 90s, combined with a love for prog and jazz-fusion. He drifted away from much of what Volante99 describes since FII.

FII is a transitional period for JP, and I like some of his stuff on that album or on ACOS, but other times I'm not into his tone, but he was still keeping things funky here and there. From SFAM onward, is when that 80s/90s JP became modern JP. I do really enjoy JP's post-FII work though, up until and including BC&SL. Since then, I've not been a huge fan of his tone on the studio albums again, or much of his new riffs, which to me often sound more elementary for his skill level and history of cool riffs.

However, he showed us he's still got some of that classic JP still in him on LTE3, in my opinion. His guitar sounded really good again, so I believe MP co-producing (and his style and creativity) is a big reason for why JP sounds better on albums with him on drums from my view, not to mention JP+MP were born to play with each other, their sound is huge, whereas I find Mangini behind JP so lack deepness in the sound.

This is not outlandish; despite being the producer and, at times, the engineer, Jimmy Page never quite approached his Zeppelin sound when not playing with John Bonham.   It was about space and it was about motion.

Stadler

Quote from: WilliamMunny on June 21, 2021, 05:03:13 PM
Quote from: Kotowboy on June 21, 2021, 02:50:49 PM
Quote from: bosk1 on June 16, 2021, 09:07:45 AM
Quote from: HOF on June 16, 2021, 09:02:36 AMI did give a full listen to both the self-titled and The Astonishing I think.

For what it's worth, those are the two least liked of the Mangini era.  And whether or not you end up liking A Dramatic Turn of Events, Breaking All Illusions is probably THE fan favorite from the Mangini era.  Personally, I find the music to be outstanding, but personally don't care for the lyrics.

I find all Myung lyrics to be meaningless drivel.

Controversial that is...agree I do not ;)

Honestly, I'm as big a 'different strokes' guy as you'll find, but this strikes me as borderline contrarian. Coming to a DT forum and posting that? You might need to show your work :rollin

While I'm not willing to go as far as "meaningless drivel", I have, in this thread, said that I find the fawning over Myung's lyrics to be quizzical.   I'm not suggesting that JM's lyrics are bad, but they aren't at the level for me that they are for others.  As I've noted, there are frequently posts, pre-album release, along the lines of "Can't wait for this record!  Myung is writing lyrics!  It's going to be epic!".  Uh, ok.  That is, to me, like saying "The mail is coming today!  I can't wait! It's going to be epic!"     They may well be, but the simple fact that JM is writing them isn't really the determinant there.