Your Controversial Opinions on DT

Started by Lucidity, December 17, 2012, 08:28:25 PM

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geeeemo

This whole album is great for me. Sometimes I think I want to skip UA, but if it comes on when I can't, I enjoy it more than I think I will.
This is a great rockin' album and better than Dream Theater, PBD is turning into an epic-y song for me, even though it is short by DT standards.

I do agree with the post above. ADToE is the best!  But if you want to rock out, bang your head a bit, than d/t  has it.

All of their albums have a distinct and different quality, I could listen to say, Symphony X and it becomes blah, blah, the same. For every mood, there is an album with Dream Theater.

Lifeamongtheruins

Saw them live for the first time yesterday night and I found Labrie suuuper awkward on stage. Lots of people hate on his voice, but I really can't complain about yesterday, he sang well even on Lie. It was just that even when he didn't disappear for the super long instrumental sections (which is totally understandable) he just went to drink something with his back to the crowd, and his interactions with the crowd weren't always well received. Since they have 2 members who obviously play in a fixed position and JM who is JM, a singer with a better stage presence would help immensely in my opinion.

Evai

Super awkward you say?

I think not!


pg1067

Quote from: Evai on July 11, 2019, 12:40:22 PM
Super awkward you say?

I think not!



Now see if you can find one of JP falling off the stage.


JLB's job is not to be an overly charismatic front man.  DT is not Van Halen or Dio.

Dream Team

Most people really like BITS, but man that second pre-chorus when James sings "Fie-uh" instead of "Fie-ERR!!" really robs that section of power. The word fire needs way more balls.

Setlist Scotty

Quote from: pg1067 on July 11, 2019, 01:38:37 PM
JLB's job is not to be an overly charismatic front man.  DT is not Van Halen or Dio.
Ummm, I always thought that was part of the job of a front man. It has nothing to do with the fact that he isn't in Dio or VH. In fact, that was an issue that was brought up shortly after MP left - something to the effect of now JL finally gets to be the front man, since MP was the one who had really engaged the audience in the past, essentially not allowing JL to do his job.

KevShmev

Being a natural and charismatic frontman feels like something that comes naturally.  It's almost like people such as Freddie Mercury, Bono, Mick Jagger and David Lee Roth (in his prime) were born to be on stage and entertaining large crowds.  I think JLB does a good job overall, but I would never call him a great or natural born-frontman, and there is nothing with that.

Lifeamongtheruins

Quote from: Setlist Scotty on July 11, 2019, 05:34:16 PM
Quote from: pg1067 on July 11, 2019, 01:38:37 PM
JLB's job is not to be an overly charismatic front man.  DT is not Van Halen or Dio.
Ummm, I always thought that was part of the job of a front man. It has nothing to do with the fact that he isn't in Dio or VH. In fact, that was an issue that was brought up shortly after MP left - something to the effect of now JL finally gets to be the front man, since MP was the one who had really engaged the audience in the past, essentially not allowing JL to do his job.
Now it's JP stealing his spot - or at least, he was that day. At the end of the gig JLB was trying to give a speech about how great the support band was, but nobody cared because Petrucci was throwing his picks, and even James seemed kind of annoyed at him.

pg1067

Quote from: Setlist Scotty on July 11, 2019, 05:34:16 PM
Quote from: pg1067 on July 11, 2019, 01:38:37 PM
JLB's job is not to be an overly charismatic front man.  DT is not Van Halen or Dio.
Ummm, I always thought that was part of the job of a front man. It has nothing to do with the fact that he isn't in Dio or VH. In fact, that was an issue that was brought up shortly after MP left - something to the effect of now JL finally gets to be the front man, since MP was the one who had really engaged the audience in the past, essentially not allowing JL to do his job.

We could probably have a whole thread about this.  JLB's job, in my opinion, is to be the lead singer.  Does that mean he has to be an overly charismatic front man?  IMO, no.  Keep in mind that I was responding to a comment that someone "found Labrie suuuper awkward on stage" and that "his interactions with the crowd weren't always well received."  Obviously, I wasn't at the show in question, but I've never had any problem with JLB as a "front man."  I mention bands like VH and Dio because those bands had extremely charismatic front men and, if I was going to see VH (with DLR) or Dio, that's something I would want.  I don't need any of that from JLB.  I need him to sing like he's been singing for the past decade plus and, occasionally, to introduce the songs.  In terms of JLB being a "front man," I'm fine with him being Geddy Lee, rather than DLR.

As far as what you wrote about MP, I know what you're talking about, but it was another thing that I never found to be an issue at the shows I attended.

JayOctavarium

re: DoT...

I'll admit I loved it when it came out, but I haven't listened to it since the day before seeing them back in April.

Actually I haven't listened to much DT since then. I'm on the burn out stage of the album cycle.

If / when they come back here on a second leg, unless the setlist has non DoT stuff that I MUST see, I would be fine skipping out.

Herrick

Quote from: Lifeamongtheruins on July 11, 2019, 12:07:55 PM
Saw them live for the first time yesterday night and I found Labrie suuuper awkward on stage. Lots of people hate on his voice, but I really can't complain about yesterday, he sang well even on Lie. It was just that even when he didn't disappear for the super long instrumental sections (which is totally understandable) he just went to drink something with his back to the crowd, and his interactions with the crowd weren't always well received. Since they have 2 members who obviously play in a fixed position and JM who is JM, a singer with a better stage presence would help immensely in my opinion.

Agreed. He's not very interesting to watch on stage but I kinda like that thing he does when he kinda just paces back and forth as he sings sings :lol

425

Quote from: zappafrank2112 on July 10, 2019, 09:57:21 PM
Now that the album has been out for a while, I maintain this controversial opinion:

Distance Over Time is nowhere near as amazing and blowaway as it's been made out to be.  For me, it's not even in the top 50% of their output, and in fact might be in the bottom 25% (hanging out with The Astonishing and Octavarium).

I don't entirely agree with this, but I'm sympathetic to parts of it. To me, the whole over-the-top reaction to this album has been kind of confusing to me, because it really just does not have any of the elements of a stunning album to me. I'd generally say that it's a solid late-career entry, maybe close to the level of DT12, but really nothing that, just to my ear, warrants the level of enthusiasm I've seen for it.

MirrorMask

Any album that doesn't evidently blows benefits from the "OMG SO AWESOME" factor, given by the novelty of it and the excitement it brings.

Also, this album was already a winner for those who actively disliked The Astonishing, for them it was basically the first "real", "non opera" DT album in 6 years, that contributed also.

As for me, I stand by my initial judgements - I like everything about the record, and yet it's one I've played very rarely. I've never liked this (relatively) little an album where I find really nothing to complain about.

425

Quote from: MirrorMask on July 14, 2019, 10:38:32 AM
Any album that doesn't evidently blows benefits from the "OMG SO AWESOME" factor, given by the novelty of it and the excitement it brings.

I would understand this solely talking about the hardcore fanbase of a particular artist. But it was my impression that this album was receiving a similar reaction even from many who are only casual fans of the band.

Dublagent66

Quote from: Evai on July 11, 2019, 04:10:16 AM
I've only listened to D/T once, the day it came out. Where's my The Astonishing live DVD/Bluray release, I'd have watched that a dozen times if it existed.  :smiley:

There's a good reason it doesn't exist, whatever that reason may be. :lol

Evai

Quote from: Dublagent66 on July 15, 2019, 10:35:06 AM
Quote from: Evai on July 11, 2019, 04:10:16 AM
I've only listened to D/T once, the day it came out. Where's my The Astonishing live DVD/Bluray release, I'd have watched that a dozen times if it existed.  :smiley:

There's a good reason it doesn't exist, whatever that reason may be. :lol

Because prog fans suck and rejected my favourite album, while pining for subpar retreads of past material. I hope this post isn't too hate-y, I try not to post stuff like that  :lol

54_diplomats

Quote from: zappafrank2112 on July 10, 2019, 09:57:21 PM
Now that the album has been out for a while, I maintain this controversial opinion:

Distance Over Time is nowhere near as amazing and blowaway as it's been made out to be.  For me, it's not even in the top 50% of their output, and in fact might be in the bottom 25% (hanging out with The Astonishing and Octavarium).

Agreed. I don't really know how to explain it but even though D/T is a solid album and I don't have too much criticism for it, I don't think it's particularly great. It just doesn't have a WOW factor that most DT albums have. It's simply ok.

Grizz

Quote from: Evai on July 15, 2019, 11:09:00 AM
Quote from: Dublagent66 on July 15, 2019, 10:35:06 AM
Quote from: Evai on July 11, 2019, 04:10:16 AM
I've only listened to D/T once, the day it came out. Where's my The Astonishing live DVD/Bluray release, I'd have watched that a dozen times if it existed.  :smiley:

There's a good reason it doesn't exist, whatever that reason may be. :lol

Because prog fans suck and rejected my favourite album, while pining for subpar retreads of past material. I hope this post isn't too hate-y, I try not to post stuff like that  :lol
Okay but regardless of whether you did or didn't like TA, wouldn't a live rendition of it just be a literal retread? Like, M2000 at least had some accompanying film and was from a time when DT's live performances were distinguishable from just playing the CD loudly. TA's only live difference that I can think of would be an extended version of A New Beginning (which, imo, would be one of the better parts of a live album, but I digress).

Evai

It's nice to see the bands playing the songs you like, that's the appeal :) Most of the songs on TA will never have any pro-shot video/recordings available. Moment Of Betrayal maybe at some point?

rotbaer

#9609
- WDADU is amongst the Top 3 DT records
- still not happy about the reference to freemasonry in AROP
- not sure whether this is really that controversial but KM was the way better keyboardist than JR in terms of being a "complete" artist, not just a superb performer
- TA isn't by far the piece of crap literally everyone a lot of people outside this forum make of it, just about 30-40 minutes too long
- when DT ever perform any part of SDOIT (the song), it seems very likely to be WIMH/TTTSTA. Why the hell the latter one? Probably the worst thing they ever wrote, except for significant parts of FII
- Furthermore, they should have hired a female vocalist for GK. The line "are you lonely without mommy's love" sung by JLB gives me an epic cringe
- I strongly dislike the beginning of LTL though the actual song is top tier to me


KevShmev

Quote from: rotbaer on July 22, 2019, 05:13:33 PM
- WDADU is amongst the Top 3 DT records


As much as I like WDADU, I can't go that far.

Quote from: rotbaer on July 22, 2019, 05:13:33 PM

- not sure whether this is really that controversial but KM was the way better keyboardist than JR in terms of being a "complete" artist, not just a superb performer

Agreed. 

pg1067

Quote from: rotbaer on July 22, 2019, 05:13:33 PM
- still not happy about the reference to freemasonry in AROP

Eh?


Quote from: rotbaer on July 22, 2019, 05:13:33 PM
- TA isn't by far the piece of crap literally everyone makes of it, just about 30-40 minutes too long

My (non-)controversial opinion is that it's annoying when people say "literally" when they mean something completely different.   :biggrin:  I don't think even TA's biggest detractors here think it's a piece of crap.  I'm not a fan of it, but there's nothing "crappy" about it.


Quote from: rotbaer on July 22, 2019, 05:13:33 PM
- when DT ever perform any part of SDOIT (the song), it seems very likely to be WIMH/TTTSTA. Why the hell the latter one? Probably the worst thing they ever wrote, except for significant parts of FII

Except when it's not.  Here are the most recent dates of parts of SDOIT:

About to Crash:  August 2, 2015
War Inside My Head:  September 1, 2012
TTTSTA:  September 1, 2012
Solitary Shell:  March 20, 2010
Everything else:  April 1, 2006

As far as your "why" question, I think the answer is because the band and lots of fans hold an opinion that differs from yours.

rotbaer

QuoteMy (non-)controversial opinion is that it's annoying when people say "literally" when they mean something completely different. 
What makes you believe to know what I mean and what I don't?

QuoteI don't think even TA's biggest detractors here think it's a piece of crap.  I'm not a fan of it, but there's nothing "crappy" about it.
It's beyond my knowledge what "detractors here" think about it. I wasn't even reading this forum until recently. But I can tell for sure that the number of "detractors elsewhere" is immense and ripping TA to shreds appeared to be the overwhelmingly dominant position.

QuoteExcept when it's not.  Here are the most recent dates of parts of SDOIT
Going through a vast number of gigs on setlist.fm gave me the impression that especially WIMH/TTTSTA is a very preferred chunk of SDOIT for DT to play on stage. I might be wrong about this as well. Mea culpa. Selective perception and stuff.

QuoteAs far as your "why" question, I think the answer is because the band and lots of fans hold an opinion that differs from yours.
Congrats, after 275 pages someone finally discovered the very definition of "controversy".

KevShmev

I would kindly suggest reading the forum and seeing what people here think, instead of assuming that everybody hates it, based on a lot of bad reviews elsewhere.  Most here are easy to get along with, so no need to go on the offensive so quickly.  Do some reading and enjoy the chatter.  :hat

rotbaer

#9614
Quote from: KevShmev on July 22, 2019, 07:11:36 PM
instead of assuming that everybody hates it, based on a lot of bad reviews elsewhere.  Most here are easy to get along with, so no need to go on the offensive so quickly.
According to rumors, not only journalists are free to share their positions on records but also regular folks. Of whom a huge amount were not pleased with TA at all. I also apologize for not realising the duty of reading hundreds of pages of conversation as a passing exam for the permission of posting in here.

Hopefully noone feels offended now :\

KevShmev

Quote from: rotbaer on July 22, 2019, 07:27:44 PM
Quote from: KevShmev on July 22, 2019, 07:11:36 PM
instead of assuming that everybody hates it, based on a lot of bad reviews elsewhere.  Most here are easy to get along with, so no need to go on the offensive so quickly.
According to rumors, not only journalists are free to share their positions on records but also regular folks. Of whom a huge amount were not pleased with TA at all. I also apologize for not realising the duty of reading hundreds of pages of conversation as a passing exam for the permission of posting in here.

Hopefully noone feels offended now :\

Good grief. I was offering some friendly advice. 

rotbaer

#9616
Quote from: KevShmev on July 22, 2019, 08:06:22 PM
Good grief. I was offering some friendly advice.
Which was understood and accepted.

I honestly don't get what the issue is. Not being well aware of some universally valid point of view in this forum?

And apparently some statement of mine has been misunderstood as an offence. Please specify.

Setlist Scotty

Well Shmev, in rotbaer's defense, this *is* the controversial opinion thread! You can't expect everything he thinks/believes to be in harmony with everyone else here, especially in this thread!   :P

SwedishGoose

Quote from: Evai on July 15, 2019, 11:09:00 AM
Quote from: Dublagent66 on July 15, 2019, 10:35:06 AM
Quote from: Evai on July 11, 2019, 04:10:16 AM
I've only listened to D/T once, the day it came out. Where's my The Astonishing live DVD/Bluray release, I'd have watched that a dozen times if it existed.  :smiley:

There's a good reason it doesn't exist, whatever that reason may be. :lol

Because prog fans suck and rejected my favourite album, while pining for subpar retreads of past material. I hope this post isn't too hate-y, I try not to post stuff like that  :lol

I can agree to this but maybe it's not so much the prog fans as the metal fans snubbing it?

Anyway I would have loved a live BluRay of the Astonishing (which is my favorite album of DT as well). I would even buy it if the videoportion was only the screens output.

They finally did something a little bit different and made a fantastic tour playing the album in full, with visuals and all. That would have been a tour to record for posterity....

I will be mad if they release the current tour on BlueRay.... why release Scenes from a Memory in full again (even if it is one of their best albums it's already got a live release).

pg1067

Quote from: rotbaer on July 22, 2019, 07:01:09 PM
QuoteMy (non-)controversial opinion is that it's annoying when people say "literally" when they mean something completely different. 

What makes you believe to know what I mean and what I don't?

Well...either you meant something other than "literally everyone" (most likely) or you're wrong.  "Literally everyone" does not think TA is a "piece of crap."  I know that because (1) I don't think it's a piece of crap, and (2) lots of folks here like it.  I'm aware that lots of folks (both on and not on this forum) don't like it, but that's not "literally everyone," and "don't like" and "piece of crap" are not the same thing.

That's all I was saying.

rotbaer

#9620
Quote from: pg1067 on July 23, 2019, 09:25:57 AM
Well...either you meant something other than "literally everyone" (most likely) or you're wrong.  "Literally everyone" does not think TA is a "piece of crap."  I know that because (1) I don't think it's a piece of crap, and (2) lots of folks here like it.  I'm aware that lots of folks (both on and not on this forum) don't like it, but that's not "literally everyone," and "don't like" and "piece of crap" are not the same thing.
Bro, if I should ever happened to intend to say "absolutely everyone", I'd have said it. Don't tell me you don't know the difference between "absolutely everyone" and "literally everyone". Merriam-Webster should be reliable enough as a source to prove that I'm not just a regular online twaddler.

Enjoy the 2nd definiton with a cool beer and take note of the fact that some people were already using the word "literally" before the Kardashians made it cool.

I'm not even going to discuss the "don't like/piece of crap" part in order not to serve your hair-splitting.

No hard feelings!

pg1067

Quote from: rotbaer on July 23, 2019, 11:36:40 AM
Quote from: pg1067 on July 23, 2019, 09:25:57 AM
Well...either you meant something other than "literally everyone" (most likely) or you're wrong.  "Literally everyone" does not think TA is a "piece of crap."  I know that because (1) I don't think it's a piece of crap, and (2) lots of folks here like it.  I'm aware that lots of folks (both on and not on this forum) don't like it, but that's not "literally everyone," and "don't like" and "piece of crap" are not the same thing.
Bro, if I should ever happened to intend to say "absolutely everyone", I'd have said it.

Your obvious mastery of the English language being what it is, I'm just going to ignore this.

rotbaer

Quote from: pg1067 on July 23, 2019, 01:06:02 PM
Quote from: rotbaer on July 23, 2019, 11:36:40 AM
Quote from: pg1067 on July 23, 2019, 09:25:57 AM
Well...either you meant something other than "literally everyone" (most likely) or you're wrong.  "Literally everyone" does not think TA is a "piece of crap."  I know that because (1) I don't think it's a piece of crap, and (2) lots of folks here like it.  I'm aware that lots of folks (both on and not on this forum) don't like it, but that's not "literally everyone," and "don't like" and "piece of crap" are not the same thing.
Bro, if I should ever happened to intend to say "absolutely everyone", I'd have said it.

Your obvious mastery of the English language being what it is, I'm just going to ignore this.
Profoundly sorry for being a non-native speaker. But I try my best.

Any particular reason for coloring the first part in green?

MirrorMask


bosk1

He knows.  He used it with some of his prior accounts before being banned previously.

Anyhow, bye, troll.