Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 1003646 times)

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Offline pg1067

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9555 on: July 04, 2019, 12:23:38 PM »
Here's a controversial opinion:

Ever since JP took the wheel in DT, they've become a much more "sterile" band. No surprises, almost static setlists, and while they still do extraordinary performances, it's just professional but without the uniqueness that existed before and made the band so special.

While i appreciate DT's effort for more impressive shows, with lights and projections, i still see them us unnecessary, especially when used as a reason for the band not rotating setlists anymore.

Counter-opinion:  From my perspective, the rotating set lists were annoying at worst and meaningless at best.  They usually resulted in me missing out on a song that I wanted to hear but which was played at the shows before and/or after the show I attended.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9556 on: July 04, 2019, 12:56:54 PM »
Here's a controversial opinion:

Ever since JP took the wheel in DT, they've become a much more "sterile" band. No surprises, almost static setlists, and while they still do extraordinary performances, it's just professional but without the uniqueness that existed before and made the band so special.

While i appreciate DT's effort for more impressive shows, with lights and projections, i still see them us unnecessary, especially when used as a reason for the band not rotating setlists anymore.

Counter-opinion:  From my perspective, the rotating set lists were annoying at worst and meaningless at best.  They usually resulted in me missing out on a song that I wanted to hear but which was played at the shows before and/or after the show I attended.

I was going to jump in on this. Wouldn't say they are annoying, but definitely overhyped. I get why people who have lots of concert cash to blow on the same band who live in an area where they will hit multiple stops nearby would appreciate them. But I can't believe that is a large percentage of fans. I only ever care what a band plays when I go see them, not what they play (or don't play) the rest of the tour.
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9557 on: July 04, 2019, 06:15:36 PM »
Here's a controversial opinion:

Ever since JP took the wheel in DT, they've become a much more "sterile" band. No surprises, almost static setlists, and while they still do extraordinary performances, it's just professional but without the uniqueness that existed before and made the band so special.

While i appreciate DT's effort for more impressive shows, with lights and projections, i still see them us unnecessary, especially when used as a reason for the band not rotating setlists anymore.
Counter-opinion:  From my perspective, the rotating set lists were annoying at worst and meaningless at best.  They usually resulted in me missing out on a song that I wanted to hear but which was played at the shows before and/or after the show I attended.
I was going to jump in on this. Wouldn't say they are annoying, but definitely overhyped. I get why people who have lots of concert cash to blow on the same band who live in an area where they will hit multiple stops nearby would appreciate them. But I can't believe that is a large percentage of fans. I only ever care what a band plays when I go see them, not what they play (or don't play) the rest of the tour.
There may not be a "large" percentage of fans, but I know that I'm far from the only one who would go to multiple shows on each tour, in large part to be able to enjoy the variety of songs that was rotated in and out of the setlist - nevermind that you didn't always know what the next song they were gonna play was, and even if the setlists were similar, the fact that it felt like anything could happen (which is non-existent now). And of course, I was always interested in what was played at the other shows that I didn't see as well - much the same way some diehard sports people are interested in various statistics of various teams or players, even if they don't have season tickets. As a result of the now static setlists, I and several others I know now just go to see the band once per tour. Will that break the bank for the band? No. But it's one of several things that made DT "especially special" while MP was in the band. DT may still be my favorite band, but they no longer stand out the way they used to.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Herrick

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9558 on: July 04, 2019, 09:50:17 PM »
I haven't been to many concerts but I can respect a band (or just Portnoy?) who thinks their discography is strong enough to play any song live.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9559 on: July 05, 2019, 01:04:46 AM »
I haven't been to many concerts but I can respect a band (or just Portnoy?) who thinks their discography is strong enough to play any song live.

Well, save 2-3 songs here and there, it actually is.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9560 on: July 05, 2019, 11:08:28 AM »
And of course, I was always interested in what was played at the other shows that I didn't see as well...

Huh, that never would have occurred to me to even consider. However, appreciate that you do.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9561 on: July 05, 2019, 12:01:01 PM »
For me, being as I can't go to many DT shows in one tour as it would require me to travel a lot, I'll take what I can get. I want to see many songs from as many albums as possible, which is why when I finally got to go to DT headlining shows it's when they went full on Album tours. First, was obvious as I enjoy The Astonishing and so glad I went to two shows. 2nd was the I&W&B tour, glad I also went to two shows and so happy our local headlining show included DLPM and TLF. Now D/T has SFAM, good but damn am I tired of Full Album tours.

I'll gladly take another A/B/C setlist with whatever they choose from among their many albums. I feel though their 2nd U.S Leg will take place when I can't attend it and it'll be a varied set.

The only reason DT did those citied varied sets is because MP was the only OCD one that kept every Setlist of every show. He had probably a big folder he pulled out when creating sets with the group, and I bet they were spontaneous as well. No one in the band currently is that OCD to do what he did.
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Offline DTA

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9562 on: July 05, 2019, 12:47:32 PM »

The only reason DT did those citied varied sets is because MP was the only OCD one that kept every Setlist of every show. He had probably a big folder he pulled out when creating sets with the group, and I bet they were spontaneous as well. No one in the band currently is that OCD to do what he did.

He definitely did have some kind of archive as to what was played. Iíve argued this a lot on this site but DT has certainly done a tremendous job with changing their set up from tour to tour without MP. Theyíve also given us three unplayed songs from the MP-era including two of the biggest rarities in Space Dye Vest and Donít Look Past Me that even MP overlooked. Thereís no reason why they should not play the same set night after night when a substantial portion of shoes are only attended in one city. Itís not the bands fault if their fans obsessively check setlist.fm for different songs (which is something I do for every band I like but I realize Iím the one with the issue not the band).


Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9563 on: July 05, 2019, 01:53:18 PM »
The only reason DT did those citied varied sets is because MP was the only OCD one that kept every Setlist of every show. He had probably a big folder he pulled out when creating sets with the group, and I bet they were spontaneous as well.
Not in the slightest, unless it was something they spontaneously broke into during the show, like some of the teasers tacked on at the end of some songs. Otherwise, MP had those setlists planned out probably at least a week in advance if not more. This was done at least in part so that everyone who needed to could be prepared - in particular JR with his sound patches and the video/lighting guys.
 
 
No one in the band currently is that OCD to do what he did.
OCD has nothing to do with it.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline gzarruk

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9564 on: July 05, 2019, 05:45:02 PM »
To add somthing else to this discussion, just wanted to say I've seen a lot of "no MP, no rotating setlists" through the years and quite a few people complain about this (o just mention it as something they dislike), but I don't see anyone complaining about the other dozen bands MP plays/has played with the last 10-ish years that don't have rotating setlists. Literally no other MP band has had rotating setlists the way he did it with DT and yet no one seems to think this is a big deal. Then, why it has to be with DT? Just my two cents.
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Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9565 on: July 05, 2019, 08:54:00 PM »
There is also a downside to rotating setlists. If I can only go to one show and I see the night before got a better (to me) setlist I'm going to be bummed.

Offline SebastiŠn Pratesi

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9566 on: July 05, 2019, 09:52:06 PM »
Otherwise, MP had those setlists planned out probably at least a week in advance if not more.
Scott, may I ask: do you know how Mike kept track of everything?

For example: did he use MS Excel/MS Access files? Did he store printed set-lists in a box or whatever?

Maybe he contacted you from time to time asking for opinions/information?

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9567 on: July 05, 2019, 10:35:49 PM »
To add somthing else to this discussion, just wanted to say I've seen a lot of "no MP, no rotating setlists" through the years and quite a few people complain about this (o just mention it as something they dislike), but I don't see anyone complaining about the other dozen bands MP plays/has played with the last 10-ish years that don't have rotating setlists. Literally no other MP band has had rotating setlists the way he did it with DT and yet no one seems to think this is a big deal. Then, why it has to be with DT? Just my two cents.
I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case, there's 2 reasons:
1) none of his other bands appeal to me in the same way that DT does so that I want to catch multiple shows and keep track of every setlist.
2) it is a well known fact that he isn't calling the shots in any of these other bands like he did in DT, with SoA being the exception. To be honest, I was a bit surprised I didn't see rotating setlists for SoA's shows in 2018, but I chalk that up to it being their first tour. If this continues to be the case on subsequent tours, it will definitely be a disappointment.
 
 
Scott, may I ask: do you know how Mike kept track of everything?

For example: did he use MS Excel/MS Access files? Did he store printed set-lists in a box or whatever?

Maybe he contacted you from time to time asking for opinions/information?
For Touring Into Infinity, I don't know, altho I doubt it was digital - it was probably just photocopies of the setlists and/or notes he kept in a diary. For that tour, he gave me a bunch of photocopies in one format or the other. For later tours (really beginning with World Tourbulence, since Metropolis 2000 was pretty static), I'm pretty sure he simply referenced the tourography, since it was up and running by that time.

But no, he never asked for my opinion on setlists - he had a good handle on putting together setlists without needing my help!  :lol
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9568 on: July 06, 2019, 12:49:51 AM »
I remember him saying he kept a "spreadsheet."  But I don't know whether he meant a literal spreadsheet, ala Excel, or if he was just using that term for some other system he had.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9569 on: July 06, 2019, 05:27:16 AM »
What MP had said was that he wanted to make sure they didn't play the same songs every time time through a town., so a fan would get different songs each time they saw them.

To JP's credit, he has kept this going. Each tour has had a radically different setlist.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline DTA

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9570 on: July 06, 2019, 05:51:57 AM »


To JP's credit, he has kept this going. Each tour has had a radically different setlist.

Seriously. Every tour since ADToE has had a cool unique setlist with rarities and a wide array of songs. The only real missteps have been removing the I&W b-sides from that album tourís setlist and replacing them with TSCO and Pull Me Under being the encore for the D/T tour.

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9571 on: July 06, 2019, 11:23:17 AM »
To JP's credit, he has kept this going. Each tour has had a radically different setlist.
...except when you go to another city just an hour or two away, you still get the same setlist.  :P
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9572 on: July 06, 2019, 02:48:06 PM »
To JP's credit, he has kept this going. Each tour has had a radically different setlist.
...except when you go to another city just an hour or two away, you still get the same setlist.  :P

You east coast peeps are spoiled with that honestly. Getting to travel just an hours worth away. While we on the west have to go twice that just for the nearest city
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Offline SebastiŠn Pratesi

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9573 on: July 06, 2019, 02:54:20 PM »
For Touring Into Infinity, I don't know, altho I doubt it was digital - it was probably just photocopies of the setlists and/or notes he kept in a diary. For that tour, he gave me a bunch of photocopies in one format or the other. For later tours (really beginning with World Tourbulence, since Metropolis 2000 was pretty static), I'm pretty sure he simply referenced the tourography, since it was up and running by that time.

But no, he never asked for my opinion on setlists - he had a good handle on putting together setlists without needing my help!  :lol
I remember him saying he kept a "spreadsheet."  But I don't know whether he meant a literal spreadsheet, ala Excel, or if he was just using that term for some other system he had.

Thanks!

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9574 on: July 06, 2019, 03:15:37 PM »
To JP's credit, he has kept this going. Each tour has had a radically different setlist.
...except when you go to another city just an hour or two away, you still get the same setlist.  :P
You east coast peeps are spoiled with that honestly. Getting to travel just an hours worth away. While we on the west have to go twice that just for the nearest city
Not sure if you're directing that at me, but for the record, I lived on the west coast, but happily went to shows in San Diego, Orange County, LA and even Phoenix. I've also flown out for shows on the east coast and caught both Milwaukee and Chicago shows, too. So no, it ain't just "east coast peeps".
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Herrick

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9575 on: July 06, 2019, 06:40:18 PM »


To JP's credit, he has kept this going. Each tour has had a radically different setlist.

Seriously. Every tour since ADToE has had a cool unique setlist with rarities and a wide array of songs. The only real missteps have been removing the I&W b-sides from that album tourís setlist and replacing them with TSCO and Pull Me Under being the encore for the D/T tour.


Yeah I was disappointed with Pull Me Under as the encore. It should've been Metropolis Part I!!!
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9576 on: July 07, 2019, 12:26:45 AM »
Seriously. Every tour since ADToE has had a cool unique setlist with rarities and a wide array of songs. The only real missteps have been removing the I&W b-sides from that album tourís setlist and replacing them with TSCO and Pull Me Under being the encore for the D/T tour.

That's only a "misstep" if you think those b-sides are worth hearing.  DLPM was the low point of the I&W&B set list, and TLF wasn't far behind (especially since I'd seen TLF live in the past).  As much as I don't really feel the need ever to see TSCO live, it would have been a far better choice IMO.
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Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9577 on: July 09, 2019, 05:53:29 AM »
This Dying Soul may make sense to be back in the live set at some point. I'd like to hear how MM would approach it anyway.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9578 on: July 10, 2019, 05:54:03 AM »
This Dying Soul may make sense to be back in the live set at some point. I'd like to hear how MM would approach it anyway.

Hell f'n yes!! :metal
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline goo-goo

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9579 on: July 10, 2019, 09:51:33 AM »
I absolutely hate the instrumental wankery section on TDS. Makes me cringe.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9580 on: July 10, 2019, 12:02:04 PM »
Not sure that is in any way controversial. Nor is my thinking that some of the vocal parts they make James sing are terrible and insulting to his talents.
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9581 on: July 10, 2019, 03:10:38 PM »
I absolutely hate the instrumental wankery section on TDS. Makes me cringe.

I don't hate it, but it is over the top.  Still love that song though.


Not sure that is in any way controversial. Nor is my thinking that some of the vocal parts they make James sing are terrible and insulting to his talents.

Which ones are those?
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9582 on: July 10, 2019, 03:12:44 PM »
I was surprised how much I enjoyed TDS when MP's TSF played it, but honestly, never really loved it (I do love the intro though) and have no desire to see DT play it.  I'm not sure it would be as good honestly either played to a click vs. that haken/mp more up tempo version

Offline goo-goo

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9583 on: July 10, 2019, 03:21:13 PM »
Not sure that is in any way controversial. Nor is my thinking that some of the vocal parts they make James sing are terrible and insulting to his talents.

Check out Frameshift's Unweaving the Rainbow. Stellar performance by James. Henning Pauly made sure James' voice shined in this album.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9584 on: July 10, 2019, 03:21:26 PM »
Not sure that is in any way controversial. Nor is my thinking that some of the vocal parts they make James sing are terrible and insulting to his talents.

Which ones are those?

Starting here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wKx_SBjHDY&feature=youtu.be&t=236
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Offline zappafrank2112

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9585 on: July 10, 2019, 09:57:21 PM »
Now that the album has been out for a while, I maintain this controversial opinion:

Distance Over Time is nowhere near as amazing and blowaway as it's been made out to be.  For me, it's not even in the top 50% of their output, and in fact might be in the bottom 25% (hanging out with The Astonishing and Octavarium).

Offline Volante99

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9586 on: July 10, 2019, 11:13:42 PM »
Now that the album has been out for a while, I maintain this controversial opinion:

Distance Over Time is nowhere near as amazing and blowaway as it's been made out to be.  For me, it's not even in the top 50% of their output, and in fact might be in the bottom 25% (hanging out with The Astonishing and Octavarium).

Agreed; Barstool Warrior and At Witís End are the only songs I find myself going back to these days. It think people give it a lot of leeway because there really arenít any TERRIBLE songs (that and itís not called the Astonishing) but, overall itís seriously lacking. For the Mangini era, itís a distant second behind ADToE which outclasses it in every conceivable way.

Octavarium is a great album, though. It has a couple clunkers but Root of All Evil, Sacrificed Sons, Panic Attack, These Walls and, of course, the title track are worth the price of admission.

Offline zappafrank2112

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9587 on: July 10, 2019, 11:58:32 PM »
Octavarium is a great album, though. It has a couple clunkers but Root of All Evil, Sacrificed Sons, Panic Attack, These Walls and, of course, the title track are worth the price of admission.

My biggest issue with the album is that to my ears, it just sounds flat and lacks any snap and sharp edges, especially compared with SC which followed.  So even though there's good music there, I just don't feel it so much on a visceral level.

Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9588 on: July 11, 2019, 03:08:14 AM »
Now that the album has been out for a while, I maintain this controversial opinion:

Distance Over Time is nowhere near as amazing and blowaway as it's been made out to be.  For me, it's not even in the top 50% of their output, and in fact might be in the bottom 25% (hanging out with The Astonishing and Octavarium).

Agreed; Barstool Warrior and At Witís End are the only songs I find myself going back to these days. It think people give it a lot of leeway because there really arenít any TERRIBLE songs (that and itís not called the Astonishing) but, overall itís seriously lacking. For the Mangini era, itís a distant second behind ADToE which outclasses it in every conceivable way.

Octavarium is a great album, though. It has a couple clunkers but Root of All Evil, Sacrificed Sons, Panic Attack, These Walls and, of course, the title track are worth the price of admission.
similarly, I only go back to Out Of Reach and Pale Blue Dot. I usually skip everything else.
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Offline Evai

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9589 on: July 11, 2019, 04:10:16 AM »
I've only listened to D/T once, the day it came out. Where's my The Astonishing live DVD/Bluray release, I'd have watched that a dozen times if it existed.  :smiley:
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