Your Controversial Opinions on DT

Started by Lucidity, December 17, 2012, 07:28:25 PM

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Adami

Quote from: SeRoX on May 09, 2017, 10:22:12 AM
Lots of respected bands do it. As long as it isn't too obivious I'm fine with autotunning.


Exactly. Auto tuning or using melodyne or something similar is beyond common. I would argue that the example we're talking about is an example of a bad artifact, which I've been guilty of myself.
www. fanticide.bandcamp . com

Evai

Quote from: mikeyd23 on May 09, 2017, 07:51:41 AM
Quote from: PB1 on May 09, 2017, 07:47:43 AM
In the gift of music Labrie says people just don't have the TTIEIEIEUUME for music. WTF? How did petrucci not catch that? That ruined the album for me IMHO

That was discussed here before the album was released I believe. Bosk can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he asked JP about that and John said there actually wasn't a pitch correction effect on that line.

Also - one word ruined a whole double album for you?

While this could be correct, I would be hesitant to believe JP in such matters, as he said he didn't hear anything wrong with the 'take the evening to deci-ide' line after being told about it.

MirrorMask

I was bent on buying the album on release day and hearing NOTHING at all beforehand, so when The Gift of Music was released I remember reading all these comments and I was preparing myself for a very cringeworthy moment... and then I heard that infamous "time", even knowing what to expect, and it felt absolutely ok to me.

So either you're all overreacting or I'm deaf for these kind of nuances, and really, I'm fine either way  :D

mikeyd23

Quote from: Adami on May 09, 2017, 10:10:00 AM
As a sound engineer who has worked a whole lot with vocal tuning, I am going to disagree with them. I doubt they're lying, but I would be open to the possibility that they are merely incorrect. It happens. No big deal.

Quote from: Evai on May 09, 2017, 10:44:22 AM
While this could be correct, I would be hesitant to believe JP in such matters, as he said he didn't hear anything wrong with the 'take the evening to deci-ide' line after being told about it.

I think a couple people had the same reactions back when this was being discussed before and it still confuses me. You got an answer straight from the source, why wouldn't you believe him?

And for the record the only effect I have ever heard on that line is reverb, delay, and some sort of chorus, which could easily be what people are hearing, IMO.

Adami

Because people can be wrong. I trust my ears quite a bit. I hear an artifact. It's very possible that the engineer did that without JPs knowledge.

It's VERY possible. The engineers are doing a lot of work without the band/producer looking over their shoulder.
www. fanticide.bandcamp . com

mikeyd23

Quote from: Adami on May 09, 2017, 10:52:09 AM
Because people can be wrong. I trust my ears quite a bit. I hear an artifact. It's very possible that the engineer did that without JPs knowledge.

It's VERY possible. The engineers are doing a lot of work without the band/producer looking over their shoulder.

For sure, and I get that you would trust your ears over pretty much anyone else saying something different, cause, what do they know? But when the producer of the record says it, I guess for me it carries more weight.

Really no big deal either way, I was just commenting. ;)

Evai

Yeah I never heard anything wrong with the 'time for music' line either, at least not anything out of the ordinary from the rest of the album. I just wouldn't base my opinion on what JP said (Falling Into Infinity was released exactly how we envisioned!)

BlobVanDam

Quote from: Adami on May 09, 2017, 10:52:09 AM
Because people can be wrong. I trust my ears quite a bit. I hear an artifact. It's very possible that the engineer did that without JPs knowledge.

It's VERY possible. The engineers are doing a lot of work without the band/producer looking over their shoulder.

Exactly. JP obviously isn't lying, but it doesn't necessarily mean he's right either. Unless he were the one mixing/engineering the album, he wouldn't know a lot of these details, because that's not his role. And that's fine.

To comment on the actual part in question, I don't hear any obvious problem in this case. Sounds fine to me, and I'm usually the first to bitch about this stuff. :lol
Off the top of my head, the only pitch correction on the album that's blatant to me is A New Beginning. Sounds like a computer.
"...... as some kind of threat, but i know we were meant to be...."

Evai

In any case, it's stylistically appropriate. Frozen had a decent amount of that pitch correction sound :)

Kotowboy

Quote from: Adami on May 09, 2017, 10:25:46 AM
Quote from: SeRoX on May 09, 2017, 10:22:12 AM
Lots of respected bands do it. As long as it isn't too obivious I'm fine with autotunning.


Exactly. Auto tuning or using melodyne or something similar is beyond common. I would argue that the example we're talking about is an example of a bad artifact, which I've been guilty of myself.

It could even be a bad crossfade between takes.

rumborak

Can somebody point out exactly the spot where this artifact is supposed to happen? I have heard the line many times, and frankly I just hear James' stylistic choice in singing the line.

Kotowboy

The word "time" sounds like it kinda slows down.

IDontNotDoThings

Quote from: PB1 on May 09, 2017, 07:47:43 AM
In the gift of music Labrie says people just don't have the TTIEIEIEUUME for music. WTF? How did petrucci not catch that? That ruined the album for me IMHO

That's not even autotune. I could do that with just my voice & I can't even sing.

erwinrafael

Quote from: gzarruk on May 09, 2017, 10:08:16 AM
Quote from: erwinrafael on May 08, 2017, 04:08:12 AM
Quote from: Evai on May 08, 2017, 01:54:41 AM
Quote from: erwinrafael on May 07, 2017, 11:15:39 PM
Quote from: Evai on May 07, 2017, 04:19:23 PM
Okay, I'm looking over the lyrics to BOI, and... I think if it was 90's James, singing it at such a high pitch that it sounds awesome, it would work for me. But James sings lower now, and lower, less intense singing brings more attention to the lyrics, and storytelling aspects of it. Because it's more like speech. 'New realities, singularities, breaking all illusions' as a verse just sounds insincere (not gonna use the word 'pretentious'... ) Who talks like that? This is also why The Astonishing works so well.

It's not pretentious. It's called poetry.

I wish, it's random words put together that rhyme with no understanding of theme or meter, while also taking itself very, very seriously. 'Let me introduce, my brother!' is a much better choice of direction, lyrically.

The words are not random. It's about how in a time of trouble (there's a test of faith), introspection and deep reflection (streams of thought awaken) can lead to moments of enlightenment (singularities) that open your mind to new possibilities (new realities) that transcend your habituated way of looking at the problem (breaking all illusions).

I think you nailed it with the explanation, but I find it funny that the words you used sound a lot like STR:
"In moments of pain
Where heart and mind collide
Self reflection helps me decide"

Or maybe this is a common theme on JM lyrics?  :o

It is. Like this line in Trial of Tears.

"I may have wasted all those years
They're not worth their time in tears
I may have spent too long in darkness
In the warmth of my fears
And as I walk through all my myths
Rising and sinking like the waves
With my thoughts wrapped around me
Through a trial of tears"

gzarruk

Quote from: erwinrafael on May 09, 2017, 05:29:24 PM
Quote from: gzarruk on May 09, 2017, 10:08:16 AM
Quote from: erwinrafael on May 08, 2017, 04:08:12 AM
Quote from: Evai on May 08, 2017, 01:54:41 AM
Quote from: erwinrafael on May 07, 2017, 11:15:39 PM
Quote from: Evai on May 07, 2017, 04:19:23 PM
Okay, I'm looking over the lyrics to BOI, and... I think if it was 90's James, singing it at such a high pitch that it sounds awesome, it would work for me. But James sings lower now, and lower, less intense singing brings more attention to the lyrics, and storytelling aspects of it. Because it's more like speech. 'New realities, singularities, breaking all illusions' as a verse just sounds insincere (not gonna use the word 'pretentious'... ) Who talks like that? This is also why The Astonishing works so well.

It's not pretentious. It's called poetry.

I wish, it's random words put together that rhyme with no understanding of theme or meter, while also taking itself very, very seriously. 'Let me introduce, my brother!' is a much better choice of direction, lyrically.

The words are not random. It's about how in a time of trouble (there's a test of faith), introspection and deep reflection (streams of thought awaken) can lead to moments of enlightenment (singularities) that open your mind to new possibilities (new realities) that transcend your habituated way of looking at the problem (breaking all illusions).

I think you nailed it with the explanation, but I find it funny that the words you used sound a lot like STR:
"In moments of pain
Where heart and mind collide
Self reflection helps me decide"

Or maybe this is a common theme on JM lyrics?  :o

It is. Like this line in Trial of Tears.

"I may have wasted all those years
They're not worth their time in tears
I may have spent too long in darkness
In the warmth of my fears
And as I walk through all my myths
Rising and sinking like the waves
With my thoughts wrapped around me
Through a trial of tears"

Mindblown  :o

rumborak

Quote from: Kotowboy on May 09, 2017, 02:32:52 PM
The word "time" sounds like it kinda slows down.

Wait, the glissando? That's obviously intentional by James.

King Postwhore

We've heard James live so we know studio vocals are autotuned. And who cares?
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Adami

Quote from: kingshmegland on May 09, 2017, 07:57:49 PM
We've heard James live so we know studio vocals are autotuned. And who cares?

Excellent point. Who cares?

Aside from that one dude who can't wait to turn 21, no one (to my knowledge) is saying that the autotune thing is a negative or an insult or anything like that. It's just an observation. I'm not sure why some people are being so defensive about it. Because, as our wise King points out.....who cares?
www. fanticide.bandcamp . com

rumborak

I don't mind it at all on official albums. Do whatever it takes to get the result you want. I do however find it lamentable, for any band, when it's used for live albums.

BlobVanDam

Quote from: rumborak on May 09, 2017, 08:19:41 PM
I don't mind it at all on official albums. Do whatever it takes to get the result you want. I do however find it lamentable, for any band, when it's used for live albums.

I have no problem with it for live albums either, as long as it's applied to the original live vocal, and not too overdone. When a singer only gets one take under live conditions, it's not all going to be perfect, so I don't mind them using autotune to smooth it out a bit. It still represents what they sound like live, but without the pressure of one individual performance defining how they sounded on an entire tour.

PB1

Is it just me or does Labrie sound mediocre live now. Seems like he's losing control of his voice. Maybe he should sing an octave lower? Just a thought

Adami

Quote from: PB1 on May 09, 2017, 10:27:01 PM
Is it just me or does Labrie sound mediocre live now. Seems like he's losing control of his voice. Maybe he should sing an octave lower? Just a thought

You're doing great. Don't let anyone tell you differently.
www. fanticide.bandcamp . com

Evai

(from the day they joined the band)

Labrie: 60% ability lost
JP: 20% ability lost
Myung: 10% ability lost
Mangini: 3% ability gained
Rudess: 5% ability gained

Kotowboy

MP : 100% membership lost
100% respect lost

Kotowboy

Quote from: rumborak on May 09, 2017, 07:47:47 PM
Quote from: Kotowboy on May 09, 2017, 02:32:52 PM
The word "time" sounds like it kinda slows down.

Wait, the glissando? That's obviously intentional by James.

Yes but it just sounds odd.

mikeyd23

Quote from: Adami on May 09, 2017, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: PB1 on May 09, 2017, 10:27:01 PM
Is it just me or does Labrie sound mediocre live now. Seems like he's losing control of his voice. Maybe he should sing an octave lower? Just a thought

You're doing great. Don't let anyone tell you differently.

Definitely doing great  :lol

ReaperKK

Doing my discography listen, MP's vocals are a great touch in constant motion

JaceTestify

Another Day on I&Ws is a stronger song then Pull Me Under.

PB1

Quote from: Adami on May 09, 2017, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: PB1 on May 09, 2017, 10:27:01 PM
Is it just me or does Labrie sound mediocre live now. Seems like he's losing control of his voice. Maybe he should sing an octave lower? Just a thought

You're doing great. Don't let anyone tell you differently.

im just sayin', he cant seem to find the right note anymore. listen to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF5BEcahu2Q

dont get me wrong, he sounds great on the cds, but live... not so much IMHO

jakepriest

Quote from: JaceTestify on May 10, 2017, 07:49:07 AM
Another Day on I&Ws is a stronger song then Pull Me Under.

Anything on that album is better than PMU as far as I am concerned.

Evai

Woah, what's wrong with PMU? Some really nice structured songwriting combined with actual poetic lyrics, it's kind of a high point for DT

jakepriest

I'm not a fan of the chorus vocal hook. Dunno I just find the song kinda boring after the amazing intro and first verse go by.

TAC

Quote from: jakepriest on May 10, 2017, 02:55:50 PM
I'm not a fan of the chorus vocal hook. Dunno I just find the song kinda boring after the amazing intro and first verse go by.

I'm with you.
Quote from: wkiml on June 08, 2012, 09:06:35 AMwould have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Quote from: DTwwbwMP on October 10, 2024, 11:26:46 AMDISAPPOINTED.. I hoped for something more along the lines of ADTOE.

Evai

People just don't have the time for Pull Me Under anymore :/

And no-one seems to care :(

erwinrafael

Quote from: jakepriest on May 10, 2017, 02:45:27 PM
Quote from: JaceTestify on May 10, 2017, 07:49:07 AM
Another Day on I&Ws is a stronger song then Pull Me Under.

Anything on that album is better than PMU as far as I am concerned.

In that album, the only song I like less is Learning to Live.