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Your Controversial Opinions on DT

Started by Lucidity, December 17, 2012, 07:28:25 PM

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KevShmev

LOL at thinking you have to be a depressed person to enjoy Space Dye Vest. 

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: KevShmev on March 13, 2014, 09:07:57 AM
LOL at thinking you have to be a depressed person to enjoy Space Dye Vest.


. <--- The point is here, and you hit way the hell over there ------->

KevShmev

I know what your point was, but there was too much fail in it overall to address it all, so I went for the one-line reply.  Besides, you saying, "It's not the 90s anymore, and concert halls aren't packed with a bunch of depressed people, looking to hear depressing music," all but implied that you have to be depressed to enjoy the song, so my reply was not out of bounds or off point.

TheGreatPretender

What I meant was that Space-Dye Vest, as it is on the album is a depressing song. And the audiences of the 90s were looking for that sort of thing in Grunge music. But like I said, that wasn't even DT's crowd. People don't go to DT concerts to hear depressing music, they want to hear something epic and empowering, and in its original format, Space-Dye Vest is none of those things. Now, playing a sad song like Disappear is one thing, but like rumbroak said, SDV is outright lethargic. I don't want to go to a concert and hear a song that makes me feel like I just went through a breakup.

Shadow Ninja 2.0

I would go to a DT concert to hear DT songs.

SDV is a DT song.

I would want to hear it.



/impeccable logic

KevShmev

Since when do you represent DT's crowd as a whole?  How do you know what every DT fan wants to hear at each concert? 

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: KevShmev on March 13, 2014, 09:30:40 AM
Since when do you represent DT's crowd as a whole?  How do you know what every DT fan wants to hear at each concert?

I don't represent DT's crowd as a whole, but at the same time, I'm not the one making the decision to play Space-Dye Vest the way they're playing it. Obviously they think it will be more enjoyable for the audience if they made it a bit more elaborate at the end, so there you have it. And I agree with their decision. If I wanted to hear an album-perfect rendition of a song, I'd listen to the album.

jammindude

I have been a DT fanboy since Oct 1992 and I disagree with your assessment of SDV on every possible level.

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: jammindude on March 13, 2014, 09:48:14 AM
I have been a DT fanboy since Oct 1992 and I disagree with your assessment of SDV on every possible level.

Okay, well given your longevity as a DT fan, tell me something, how did you feel back then, when they played Wait For Sleep and they made the ending of that a little heavier and rock oriented? Or The Silent Man when, again, they turned it into more of a jazzy rock song as opposed to an acoustic one?

Because that's exactly what's happening with Space-Dye Vest now, and like I said, I don't see why it should be exempt from such a treatment, if that's what they want to do with it.

KevShmev

I've been a fan since '93, yet I've never liked them rocking up the Silent Man the way they used to.  The original arrangement, which they brought back on the last tour, was absolutely perfect.  I didn't like them adding drums to Wait for Sleep either.  Songs like those and Space Dye Vest, if put in the right spot in a set list, can be a great dynamic shift from the rocking and epic tunes.

TheGreatPretender

Well, I always enjoyed those interpretations. Same with the extended solo and heavier ending on Hollow Years that they've done on OIALT and Budokan.

jammindude

Quote from: TheGreatPretender on March 13, 2014, 09:54:00 AM
Quote from: jammindude on March 13, 2014, 09:48:14 AM
I have been a DT fanboy since Oct 1992 and I disagree with your assessment of SDV on every possible level.

Okay, well given your longevity as a DT fan, tell me something, how did you feel back then, when they played Wait For Sleep and they made the ending of that a little heavier and rock oriented? Or The Silent Man when, again, they turned it into more of a jazzy rock song as opposed to an acoustic one?

Because that's exactly what's happening with Space-Dye Vest now, and like I said, I don't see why it should be exempt from such a treatment, if that's what they want to do with it.

Varied.   What they did with WfS was not really too over the top.   The band just added a bit of texture, but by the end of the song, it ended pretty much the same way it ended on the album (before going into Surrounded). 

Silent Man is different because I've seen it both ways.   When they did it on the Awake tour, they did it acoustically, and MP came out from behind the drum kit and played some bongos.   I actually really liked it.   It had a really intimate feel to it, and I thought it worked.   But then I liked the bombastic version on LSFNY for its own different reasons.     I think both approaches can be pulled off.

rumborak

Quote from: TheGreatPretender on March 13, 2014, 09:02:18 AM
It's not the 90s anymore, and concert halls aren't packed with a bunch of depressed people, looking to hear depressing music.

I take it you don't listen to Porcupine Tree. :lol

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: rumborak on March 13, 2014, 12:19:44 PM
Quote from: TheGreatPretender on March 13, 2014, 09:02:18 AM
It's not the 90s anymore, and concert halls aren't packed with a bunch of depressed people, looking to hear depressing music.

I take it you don't listen to Porcupine Tree. :lol

That would definitely be a correct assessment.  ;D

rumborak

Well, given the popularity of PT and Steven Wilson, I think it should be rather obvious there *are* a lot of people who have no problem with "depressing" music.

Outcrier


TheGreatPretender

Quote from: rumborak on March 13, 2014, 12:43:29 PM
Well, given the popularity of PT and Steven Wilson, I think it should be rather obvious there *are* a lot of people who have no problem with "depressing" music.

But is it 'depressing' because it's dark and dramatic and minor? Or is it outright angsty like SDV?

rumborak

Dude, seriously, I don't even know what point you're trying to make here. Is it that moody music overall is a thing of the past, and these days nobody likes it anymore? Then I would say, you might want to expand your horizons a little bit.

KevShmev

That's kind of what I was thinking.  A lot of Pink Floyd's most popular music back in the 70s was anything but happy, yet it was some of the most popular rock music ever.  The idea that depressing music is listened to by depressed people, or whatever, is pure nonsense.  Almost everyone who knows me would describe me (among other things :lol) as being pretty upbeat and happy, yet somehow I love Floyd, PT, Space Dye Vest, etc.  OMG, HOW CAN THAT BE?  ??? ??? :rollin :rollin

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: rumborak on March 13, 2014, 01:15:14 PM
Dude, seriously, I don't even know what point you're trying to make here. Is it that moody music overall is a thing of the past, and these days nobody likes it anymore? Then I would say, you might want to expand your horizons a little bit.

I'm not trying to make any point, I'm just asking you out of curiosity because I'm not familiar with PT's music.

Here, I couldn't afford a family pack:

:chill

theseoafs

Quote from: rumborak on March 13, 2014, 07:51:02 AM
In my ever-so-humble opinion, JR is the main offender in not being able to play the song "correctly". The song calls for an mood that I have *never* heard in any other DT song: lethargy. The kind of lethargy you experience when you broke up with somebody. SDV on CD captures this emotion perfectly, but when hearing the JLB+JR version a while ago, I have to be honest and say: JR can not play it.

But the live version being played now is completely different from the JLB+JR version a few years back.  That was a solo piano performance, and the keyboard part as played on the record is positively boring -- it really only makes sense in the context of the recording, which has all the samples, and the sound effects, and all the other instruments to provide contrast and ambiance.  Playing the piano part exactly as written at that performance would've sounded incredibly silly -- JR was right to ham it up a bit there.  I don't know what you've heard of the live performances this year, but JR hasn't really been embellishing KM's part at all.

Ben_Jamin

Quote from: TheGreatPretender on March 13, 2014, 01:10:54 PM
Quote from: rumborak on March 13, 2014, 12:43:29 PM
Well, given the popularity of PT and Steven Wilson, I think it should be rather obvious there *are* a lot of people who have no problem with "depressing" music.

But is it 'depressing' because it's dark and dramatic and minor? Or is it outright angsty like SDV?

Listen to Heartattck in a Layby, and Feel So Low. The latter song is more Space-Dye Vesty

Polis

Quote from: Invisible on February 24, 2014, 11:25:27 AM
Oh, and some random thought that just came to me(and perhaps my first real controversial opinion here): I think if the DT catalog(aside from WDADU) were released backwards instead of how it is, I&W would've gotten A LOT of hate instead of the praise it gets :P("that Metropolis middle section is awful and it drags the whole down" comes to mind :P). Sometimes I think some DT albums gets hated just for having DT name on it, among fans and non fans, and their only fault is being compared to the other albums.
Well, obviously the music scene nowadays is pretty different than from 30 years ago, so that's a given, and the reason why everyone praises images is because that was a foundational album of prog metal. Pretty dumb idea.

Outcrier

Quote from: Invisible on February 24, 2014, 11:25:27 AM
Oh, and some random thought that just came to me(and perhaps my first real controversial opinion here): I think if the DT catalog(aside from WDADU) were released backwards instead of how it is, I&W would've gotten A LOT of hate instead of the praise it gets :P("that Metropolis middle section is awful and it drags the whole down" comes to mind :P). Sometimes I think some DT albums gets hated just for having DT name on it, among fans and non fans, and their only fault is being compared to the other albums.

Hm... no.

Volante99

To elaborate on my original point;

I have no problem with DT changing songs up to make it more "concert-friendly". Sometimes it works (Hollow Years), sometimes it doesn't (Space Dye Vest imo). I personally think the song (as it was on the album) would have worked fine in a live situation. Not every song needs a soaring guitar solo at the end. The fact that they changed one of my favorite DT moments into something (again my opinion) inferior. I'm a positive person though, so maybe the live ending will come across better in person at the concert.

I also think Rudess plays it fine. I put all the blame on JLB and JR haha

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: Volante99 on March 13, 2014, 04:08:03 PM
I'm a positive person though, so maybe the live ending will come across better in person at the concert.

Well, I hope we get a chance to find out. Hopefully they didn't switch up their setlist too much for the North American leg... Just one more week, then we find out!

theseoafs

Quote from: TheGreatPretender on March 13, 2014, 04:41:20 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on March 13, 2014, 04:08:03 PM
I'm a positive person though, so maybe the live ending will come across better in person at the concert.

Well, I hope we get a chance to find out. Hopefully they didn't switch up their setlist too much for the North American leg... Just one more week, then we find out!

They will not.

Volante99

Quote from: theseoafs on March 13, 2014, 05:48:05 PM
Quote from: TheGreatPretender on March 13, 2014, 04:41:20 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on March 13, 2014, 04:08:03 PM
I'm a positive person though, so maybe the live ending will come across better in person at the concert.

Well, I hope we get a chance to find out. Hopefully they didn't switch up their setlist too much for the North American leg... Just one more week, then we find out!

They will not.

People keep saying this, and I hope they are right (and suspect they are), but I'm going to chuckle a bit if it's changed up a bit.

theseoafs

Well, find something else to chuckle about, because it won't be changed.

Volante99

Quote from: theseoafs on March 13, 2014, 08:52:01 PM
Well, find something else to chuckle about, because it won't be changed.

Source?

Sacul

Quote from: Volante99 on March 13, 2014, 09:02:47 PM
Quote from: theseoafs on March 13, 2014, 08:52:01 PM
Well, find something else to chuckle about, because it won't be changed.

Source?
In a recent interview with Rudess, he said they won't change the setlist.

Rodni Demental

Fair enough, I'm sure they're keeping the 'essence' of the setlist, but somehow I still wouldn't be surprised if some of the new album's songs get flipped around I mean come on, it's the new stuff, they're not gonna ignore it for the WHOLE tour are they??? Are they..  :(

wasteland

Quote from: Rodni Demental on March 14, 2014, 01:02:08 AM
Fair enough, I'm sure they're keeping the 'essence' of the setlist, but somehow I still wouldn't be surprised if some of the new album's songs get flipped around I mean come on, it's the new stuff, they're not gonna ignore it for the WHOLE tour are they??? Are they..  :(

The tour is not over in April. There's a second EU leg coming!

jammindude

Quote from: Rodni Demental on March 14, 2014, 01:02:08 AM
Fair enough, I'm sure they're keeping the 'essence' of the setlist, but somehow I still wouldn't be surprised if some of the new album's songs get flipped around I mean come on, it's the new stuff, they're not gonna ignore it for the WHOLE tour are they??? Are they..  :(

More fresh material for the next tour....

Ben_Jamin

Quote from: jammindude on March 14, 2014, 08:12:42 AM
Quote from: Rodni Demental on March 14, 2014, 01:02:08 AM
Fair enough, I'm sure they're keeping the 'essence' of the setlist, but somehow I still wouldn't be surprised if some of the new album's songs get flipped around I mean come on, it's the new stuff, they're not gonna ignore it for the WHOLE tour are they??? Are they..  :(

More fresh material for the next tour....

The Bigger Picture and Behind The Veil.