Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 824454 times)

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Offline Implode

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3990 on: March 05, 2014, 12:09:26 AM »
In LSFNY, they definitely gave it their all. MP almost played himself to death that night.

Offline MinistryOfLostSouls

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3991 on: March 05, 2014, 12:16:06 AM »
Portnoy probably sang on the album version, too.  I meant sections of music where he was contributing leads.  I just don't feel his voice was ever up to being on albums as a lead.  No disrespect meant.  His backing vocals, and harmonization skills, and understanding of complex harmony was always appreciated. As a former contributing member of Dream Theater I most certainly do not hate Mike Portnoy.  He co-wrote some of the most bad ass Dream Theater songs in existence. 

...Am I the only one who caught this? :lol

 :facepalm:

I have no further comment, ever again, about Mike Portnoy.  As a fan of Dream Theater I've really enjoyed his work all the way back to 1992. He's one of the best drummers in the world.  I wish him nothing but the best of luck in his music career.  That is all.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 12:27:52 AM by MinistryOfLostSouls »

Offline GasparXR

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3992 on: March 05, 2014, 12:36:39 AM »
Portnoy probably sang on the album version, too.  I meant sections of music where he was contributing leads.  I just don't feel his voice was ever up to being on albums as a lead.  No disrespect meant.  His backing vocals, and harmonization skills, and understanding of complex harmony was always appreciated. As a former contributing member of Dream Theater I most certainly do not hate Mike Portnoy.  He co-wrote some of the most bad ass Dream Theater songs in existence. 

...Am I the only one who caught this? :lol

 :facepalm:

I have no further comment, ever again, about Mike Portnoy.  As a fan of Dream Theater I've really enjoyed his work all the way back to 1992. He's one of the best drummers in the world.  I wish him nothing but the best of luck in his music career.  That is all.

Oh, I now realize why I read that wrong. The way you phrased it made me think you referred to yourself as a former contributing member of Dream Theater. :rollin Sorry about that.
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3993 on: March 05, 2014, 01:00:27 AM »
I couldn't possible consider anything pre-SDOIT their pinnacle, since that's missing out on their best album, and JLB was not great live in the FII-SDOIT era. I'd have to say ToT era, despite JP's haircut.

well, pinnacle as a studio band does not necessarily translate into their pinnacle as a live band.

Offline MinistryOfLostSouls

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3994 on: March 05, 2014, 01:02:07 AM »
Portnoy probably sang on the album version, too.  I meant sections of music where he was contributing leads.  I just don't feel his voice was ever up to being on albums as a lead.  No disrespect meant.  His backing vocals, and harmonization skills, and understanding of complex harmony was always appreciated. As a former contributing member of Dream Theater I most certainly do not hate Mike Portnoy.  He co-wrote some of the most bad ass Dream Theater songs in existence. 

...Am I the only one who caught this? :lol

 :facepalm:

I have no further comment, ever again, about Mike Portnoy.  As a fan of Dream Theater I've really enjoyed his work all the way back to 1992. He's one of the best drummers in the world.  I wish him nothing but the best of luck in his music career.  That is all.

Oh, I now realize why I read that wrong. The way you phrased it made me think you referred to yourself as a former contributing member of Dream Theater. :rollin Sorry about that.

Are you serious? :lol If I contributed to Dream Theater's music do you how bad they would suck?  This wouldn't be a forum.  It would be an abandoned MySpace band profile from 2005.   :lol

Offline robwebster

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3995 on: March 05, 2014, 01:24:52 AM »
To each their own. To me, SFAM and LSFNY, despite the sketchy video editing, is for me the absolute pinnacle of the band. It was just now a joy watching them perform that tune.
Whuh? He can't even hit the F#! Not that I'm saying that's terrible and irredeemable in itself - most mortals can't, and he still delivers a credible performance - but surely that places them a fair distance away from their own personal pinnacles? LSfNY is food poisoning central - they delivered him an ultimatum in the next album cycle.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3996 on: March 05, 2014, 01:29:46 AM »
James may not have been at his best when they recorded Live Scenes, but I think his performance is easily better than on Budokan, Livetime and CIM.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3997 on: March 05, 2014, 01:46:55 AM »
To each their own. To me, SFAM and LSFNY, despite the sketchy video editing, is for me the absolute pinnacle of the band. It was just now a joy watching them perform that tune.
Whuh? He can't even hit the F#! Not that I'm saying that's terrible and irredeemable in itself - most mortals can't, and he still delivers a credible performance - but surely that places them a fair distance away from their own personal pinnacles? LSfNY is food poisoning central - they delivered him an ultimatum in the next album cycle.

Again hitting the nail on the head, rob. :tup

I couldn't possible consider anything pre-SDOIT their pinnacle, since that's missing out on their best album, and JLB was not great live in the FII-SDOIT era. I'd have to say ToT era, despite JP's haircut.

well, pinnacle as a studio band does not necessarily translate into their pinnacle as a live band.

You're right, which is why I didn't say SDOIT era was their live pinnacle. ToT era is when JLB started to really improve live, plus they'd released all of my top DT albums by that point.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3998 on: March 05, 2014, 04:34:15 AM »
To each their own. To me, SFAM and LSFNY, despite the sketchy video editing, is for me the absolute pinnacle of the band. It was just now a joy watching them perform that tune.
Whuh? He can't even hit the F#! Not that I'm saying that's terrible and irredeemable in itself - most mortals can't, and he still delivers a credible performance - but surely that places them a fair distance away from their own personal pinnacles? LSfNY is food poisoning central - they delivered him an ultimatum in the next album cycle.
On that note, here's a controversial opinion: I'll take that night's James, with less range but lots of bite and aggression, over the more recent guy, who meanders around stage pretty bored looking, but will nail a very quick, thin sounding F#.

That said, James is awful on some of the Scenes bootlegs I've heard, and he's awful on Bucharest, so I'm sure he's better overall today than he was at the turn of the millenium. But he really did bring some extra fire on that LSFNY recording.

Offline Sycsa

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3999 on: March 05, 2014, 05:18:45 AM »
On that note, here's a controversial opinion: I'll take that night's James, with less range but lots of bite and aggression, over the more recent guy, who meanders around stage pretty bored looking, but will nail a very quick, thin sounding F#.
I like both. The energy on Live Scenes is indeed mesmerizing, but I also loved that short, powerful F# he hit on the Happy Holidays release. James has been great throughout the last tour, I wouldn't call this (and most of his) F#s weak: https://youtu.be/LfPSRb8btjA?t=6m50s


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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4000 on: March 05, 2014, 06:30:09 AM »
On that note, here's a controversial opinion: I'll take that night's James, with less range but lots of bite and aggression, over the more recent guy, who meanders around stage pretty bored looking, but will nail a very quick, thin sounding F#.
I like both. The energy on Live Scenes is indeed mesmerizing, but I also loved that short, powerful F# he hit on the Happy Holidays release. James has been great throughout the last tour, I wouldn't call this (and most of his) F#s weak: https://youtu.be/LfPSRb8btjA?t=6m50s
Eh, the F# is fine, but the notes leading up to it sound very strained and weak. There, the last "ah" on the second "woah" is especially thin. But that's how James has been for awhile. He usually hits the F# itself, but the lead in is not very good. I'll take the way it's sung on LSFNY (adapted to suit his range) any day.

Offline Sycsa

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4001 on: March 05, 2014, 06:52:02 AM »
On that note, here's a controversial opinion: I'll take that night's James, with less range but lots of bite and aggression, over the more recent guy, who meanders around stage pretty bored looking, but will nail a very quick, thin sounding F#.
I like both. The energy on Live Scenes is indeed mesmerizing, but I also loved that short, powerful F# he hit on the Happy Holidays release. James has been great throughout the last tour, I wouldn't call this (and most of his) F#s weak: https://youtu.be/LfPSRb8btjA?t=6m50s
Eh, the F# is fine, but the notes leading up to it sound very strained and weak. There, the last "ah" on the second "woah" is especially thin. But that's how James has been for awhile. He usually hits the F# itself, but the lead in is not very good. I'll take the way it's sung on LSFNY (adapted to suit his range) any day.
I'd take both and really wouldn't pick one over the other. He handled it excellently on Live Scenes (I especially like the gritty ending of the scream), but it's also satisfying (moving even) to see that he can still hit that F# more than 20 year after it was recorded, recovering from the food poisoning incident, which at this point, almost looks like a blessing in disguise since it made him take better care of his voice. It's also obvious that at this age, James will take a more restrained approach to performing than 10-15 years ago. It's all part of their natural evolution, which is a joy to witness.


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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4002 on: March 05, 2014, 10:15:51 AM »
I've heard JLB do the F# last tour, in some youtube videos, and he sounded fantastic. Yes, it's gritty, and had a different kind of quality to it, but it was still powerful and quite awesome. But the version that they got on the Holiday release was just... weird... I have no idea what the hell that was. It was like a soccer player, getting a running start to try and kick the ball into the net, and instead the ball broke and deflated upon impact. Didn't dig it at all.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4003 on: March 05, 2014, 11:00:39 AM »
To each their own. To me, SFAM and LSFNY, despite the sketchy video editing, is for me the absolute pinnacle of the band. It was just now a joy watching them perform that tune.
Whuh? He can't even hit the F#! Not that I'm saying that's terrible and irredeemable in itself - most mortals can't, and he still delivers a credible performance - but surely that places them a fair distance away from their own personal pinnacles? LSfNY is food poisoning central - they delivered him an ultimatum in the next album cycle.

Frankly, and this is probably DTF anathema, I care very little about that stupid F#. It's one note they stuck into the song out of mere "because James can sing it".
LSFNY has a raw power that is IMHO unmatched by any other live DVD. They were doing a DVD for an album which at that point was only rivaled by IAW in popularity, and on top of that they were doing ACOS which had never been filmed properly before. You can see their desire to make that performance *the* filmed performance of their lives.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4004 on: March 05, 2014, 11:12:21 AM »
It was after LSFNY that the ultimatum was delivered???  REALLY?   I thought that was a huge return to form!   Because to me, the absolute lowest possible point in JLB's entire career with DT came with OIALT.     I was actually embarrassed for him.     FII had been somewhat of a letdown when it came out, but I really thought (at the time) that OIALT would be the nail in the coffin for the band.     JLB just ruins that album...I can't even listen to it, and to this day I don't even get how they didn't just scrap the entire album.   

Every live album since has been a MASSIVE improvement over OIALT.

EDIT: IMO...JP's comments on the video turned out to be quite prophetic.... "This is going to be the worst EVER..."
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4005 on: March 05, 2014, 12:10:59 PM »


Frankly, and this is probably DTF anathema, I care very little about that stupid F#. It's one note they stuck into the song out of mere "because James can sing it".
LSFNY has a raw power that is IMHO unmatched by any other live DVD. They were doing a DVD for an album which at that point was only rivaled by IAW in popularity, and on top of that they were doing ACOS which had never been filmed properly before. You can see their desire to make that performance *the* filmed performance of their lives.

Amen to that. 

In regards to set lists, LSFNY is by far the best of any DT live DVD.

Offline robwebster

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4006 on: March 05, 2014, 12:44:56 PM »
To each their own. To me, SFAM and LSFNY, despite the sketchy video editing, is for me the absolute pinnacle of the band. It was just now a joy watching them perform that tune.
Whuh? He can't even hit the F#! Not that I'm saying that's terrible and irredeemable in itself - most mortals can't, and he still delivers a credible performance - but surely that places them a fair distance away from their own personal pinnacles? LSfNY is food poisoning central - they delivered him an ultimatum in the next album cycle.

Frankly, and this is probably DTF anathema, I care very little about that stupid F#. It's one note they stuck into the song out of mere "because James can sing it".
LSFNY has a raw power that is IMHO unmatched by any other live DVD. They were doing a DVD for an album which at that point was only rivaled by IAW in popularity, and on top of that they were doing ACOS which had never been filmed properly before. You can see their desire to make that performance *the* filmed performance of their lives.
No, I sort of get you - the F#'s overhyped, but I think it's a useful marker. It's not like missing that note was a freak accident in an otherwise incredible evening, it was perfectly well foreshadowed. I do get what you mean, there is a drive and the necessity to the performance, but it's not something I massively miss or even find particularly lacking in subsequent DVDs. I don't think the best art necessarily comes from suffering, and I think their best performances and albums can be found elsewhere.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4007 on: March 05, 2014, 10:21:41 PM »
Whether the F# is overhyped or not, what JLB did on LSFNY instead was a huge letdown. He couldn't do it, then he had to wail over the guitar solo to kick you while you were down.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4008 on: March 05, 2014, 10:33:30 PM »
Oh well, I guess I must be the only one. I still prefer his singing back then over today. For one he hadn't started doing that über-wide vibrato yet, nor the breathing stuff.
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Offline adastra

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4009 on: March 05, 2014, 10:40:17 PM »
LSFNY was Dream Theater at their Peak x__x
Great live DVD!
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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4010 on: March 05, 2014, 11:33:08 PM »
LSFNY was Dream Theater at their Peak x__x
Great live DVD!

I would say great performances and great concert, but the DVD is a letdown. Not having the full set, plus all the psychedelic stuff, and unneeded video filters really bring it down.
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4011 on: March 06, 2014, 07:33:24 AM »
Whether the F# is overhyped or not, what JLB did on LSFNY instead was a huge letdown. He couldn't do it, then he had to wail over the guitar solo to kick you while you were down.

Exactly.

My reaction to hearing that section the first time I listened to LSFNY was something like....Okay he couldn't hit the F#, long night, tough set list, his voice wasn't in great shape back then... that's cool I guess, at least JP is going to rip my face off with this amazing guitar solo... Yeah! oh, wait... what is that!? He's singing over top that guitar solo.... Seriously...

If he couldn't hit the F# that night, that's fine, that's the way it is. But don't cover up that amazing solo after the fact to try to make up for it.


Offline bosk1

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4012 on: March 06, 2014, 09:19:56 AM »
To each their own. To me, SFAM and LSFNY, despite the sketchy video editing, is for me the absolute pinnacle of the band. It was just now a joy watching them perform that tune.
Whuh? He can't even hit the F#! Not that I'm saying that's terrible and irredeemable in itself - most mortals can't, and he still delivers a credible performance - but surely that places them a fair distance away from their own personal pinnacles? LSfNY is food poisoning central - they delivered him an ultimatum in the next album cycle.

Frankly, and this is probably DTF anathema, I care very little about that stupid F#. It's one note they stuck into the song out of mere "because James can sing it".
LSFNY has a raw power that is IMHO unmatched by any other live DVD. They were doing a DVD for an album which at that point was only rivaled by IAW in popularity, and on top of that they were doing ACOS which had never been filmed properly before. You can see their desire to make that performance *the* filmed performance of their lives.

I wouldn't go quite as far a you, but I mostly agree.  The versions of LTL and ACOS on LSFNY are, IMO, easily the best ever recorded by a large margin.  I've said it before, and I will continue to defend this position:  James' note choice on LTL was excellent.  He chose notes that were on key and fit the song rather than going for a note he couldn't hit and going off key.  That's just solid, smart singing.  And the choice to add in the vamping harmony part afterward from the original demo version was a very nice touch as well.
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Offline robwebster

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4013 on: March 06, 2014, 11:09:16 AM »
Oh, it's smart! I don't dispute that it's smart. But it's a smart choice precisely because his voice, that years, was both weaker than it had been and weaker than it would one day become.

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4014 on: March 06, 2014, 11:21:23 AM »
I love that he did the singing over the guitar solo.  When I heard it in the demo, it was so exciting and engaging.

Frankly, and this is probably DTF anathema, I care very little about that stupid F#. It's one note they stuck into the song out of mere "because James can sing it".

I don't think so.  They wrote the song without a singer, and in the demo you can tell they wanted something in there.  God forbid they make it one of the most exciting and iconic moments of the their discography.
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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4015 on: March 06, 2014, 12:51:16 PM »
I love that he did the singing over the guitar solo.  When I heard it in the demo, it was so exciting and engaging.

I wouldn't say it's such an amazing guitar solo, that it has to be heard absolutely without interruptions anyway. Honestly, that guitar solo, to me, felt like it was just winding people down after the F#. Like a cool down.  :lol
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Offline Invisible

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4016 on: March 06, 2014, 06:14:39 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks JLB now sounds better than ever? At least live. I loved his voice on the I&W era, but he used to over scream a lot, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but his technique wasn't as good as it is now IMHO, despite his voice obviously being weaker.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4017 on: March 06, 2014, 06:30:47 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks JLB now sounds better than ever? At least live. I loved his voice on the I&W era, but he used to over scream a lot, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but his technique wasn't as good as it is now IMHO, despite his voice obviously being weaker.

NO...you are NOT the only one.   I absolutely agree 100% with ALL of this.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4018 on: March 06, 2014, 10:07:59 PM »
For me it's a toss-up. He may have "caught himself" these days, but he also acquired some things in his singing I really don't think are good. His vibrato for example is totally off the wall these days, and the breathy singing is another one.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4019 on: March 06, 2014, 11:09:33 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks JLB now sounds better than ever? At least live. I loved his voice on the I&W era, but he used to over scream a lot, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but his technique wasn't as good as it is now IMHO, despite his voice obviously being weaker.
NO...you are NOT the only one.   I absolutely agree 100% with ALL of this.
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Offline orcus116

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4020 on: March 07, 2014, 05:37:23 PM »
Frankly, and this is probably DTF anathema, I care very little about that stupid F#. It's one note they stuck into the song out of mere "because James can sing it".
LSFNY has a raw power that is IMHO unmatched by any other live DVD. They were doing a DVD for an album which at that point was only rivaled by IAW in popularity, and on top of that they were doing ACOS which had never been filmed properly before. You can see their desire to make that performance *the* filmed performance of their lives.

Eh, I prefer OIALT/5YIALT in terms of rawness. The whole thing is a bit slapdash and sloppy but it's fun as hell. I'm probably also mistaking fun for power.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4021 on: March 08, 2014, 04:09:34 AM »
I am amazed at how few people agree with me in calling LALP the best JOB performance since 94 in terms of clarity and healthy power.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4022 on: March 08, 2014, 06:20:03 AM »
I am amazed at how few people agree with me in calling LALP the best JOB performance since 94 in terms of clarity and healthy power.


I also agree! Score was a little more perfect performance-wise, but his voice is VERY clean-sounding there, where LALP is a little more gritty, powerful and raw.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4023 on: March 08, 2014, 06:43:39 AM »
I am amazed at how few people agree with me in calling LALP the best JOB performance since 94 in terms of clarity and healthy power.
I also agree! Score was a little more perfect performance-wise, but his voice is VERY clean-sounding there, where LALP is a little more gritty, powerful and raw.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4024 on: March 08, 2014, 06:52:42 AM »
JOB = JLB ?