Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 979488 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3955 on: March 02, 2014, 03:42:16 PM »
I think it's both actually. James decided to become more breathy because the heavy compression allowed him to use that breathiness then as a stylistic choice. And in earlier albums he used it sparingly to great effect. It's just that lately in any soft section he switches to that mode immediately. I don't think it's bad technique; it's just corny, and heavily overdone.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Grizz

  • Posts: 1666
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3956 on: March 02, 2014, 04:39:15 PM »
The only time when it's particularly bad for me is LaLP. The Silent Man sounds like someone put the audio of amateur porn through a distortion filter and edited it into the background.
"I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!"

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3957 on: March 02, 2014, 06:07:45 PM »
The end of Through Her Eyes is also "interesting" vocally, to say the least.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3958 on: March 02, 2014, 07:09:15 PM »
4/4 is so lame - i'm writing song in Pi / 16

Offline Tis BOOLsheet

  • Banned
  • Posts: 1112
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3959 on: March 02, 2014, 08:06:52 PM »
If you breathe into a microphone it will amplify your breath, obviously. You shouldn't really be breathing directly into the microphone. The issue is not a technical one with the technology or amplifying equipment. It's that his singing is extremely breathy. It's just not good vocal technique.

To be sure, there was indeed a technical problem, that night. But it wasn't with the set up or equipment.

Even when he's been breathy in the past, it wasn't that bad. If you want to call it bad vocal technique, that's fine, but the problem was amplified by the equipment. I believe someone already mentioned that it was most likely the overcompression that made it so problematic.

It's not about what I (personally) want to call it. It's what it is.

I agree the microphone amplified it. That's what a microphone does: amplifies whatever you put into it. It's pretty clear the softer dynamics of these songs are making him uncomfortable. The breathy vocal on the Blu-ray is a symptom of that. Another issue is that he is hanging on consonants entirely too long. As a vocalist you should not be sustaining consonants-- you sustains the vowels. Yet, when I listen to the Silent Man every consonant, is being sustained. "ppppprrrraaay they wont last" or "behind the stained glasssssss"

That is singing 101. If you took any basic chorus class or vocal lesson, and you sang like that, you would get corrected immediately.

The effect of the compression was minimal, if anything. The microphone didn't create anything that wasn't there. It just brought to the forefront a number of problems that were going to give you this end product no matter what.

Offline TheGreatPretender

  • The Second Dancing Turtle
  • Posts: 6981
  • Gender: Male
  • You are reading these words.
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3960 on: March 03, 2014, 12:06:53 AM »
It's not about what I (personally) want to call it. It's what it is.

I agree the microphone amplified it. That's what a microphone does: amplifies whatever you put into it. It's pretty clear the softer dynamics of these songs are making him uncomfortable. The breathy vocal on the Blu-ray is a symptom of that. Another issue is that he is hanging on consonants entirely too long. As a vocalist you should not be sustaining consonants-- you sustains the vowels. Yet, when I listen to the Silent Man every consonant, is being sustained. "ppppprrrraaay they wont last" or "behind the stained glasssssss"

That is singing 101. If you took any basic chorus class or vocal lesson, and you sang like that, you would get corrected immediately.

The effect of the compression was minimal, if anything. The microphone didn't create anything that wasn't there. It just brought to the forefront a number of problems that were going to give you this end product no matter what.

First of all, are you saying that LaBrie's breathy vocals were more breathy than they ever have been? Because all the previous times he'd done breathy vocals, yes, they sounded breathy, but they still sounded like a vocalist singing breathy vocals. On Luna Park, it sounded very unnatural, so no, it wasn't JUST LaBrie that was the problem.

As for sustaining consonants over vowels, that's just laughable. I know some singes for how sustaining their consonants is their signature, it's what makes their style unique and it sounds just fine.
I know you don't like LaBrie as a vocalist, but this is just silly nitpicking.
"How's that for a slice of fried gold?"

Offline Perpetual Change

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 12264
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3961 on: March 03, 2014, 05:35:10 AM »
How is that nit-picky? Do other people not hear how bad those S's sound on Live at Luna Park? Maybe not everyone detects it, but for me, it stops me from being able to listen to those songs.

I think both of you guys are right, to a degree. More recently, James HAS been doing a more whisper/breathy thing live. Extending the consonants while breathing heavy sounds like an apt description. However, I do think there was something weird going on with the sound on LALP, compression or something. So it's not ALL James or ALL the recording, but a bit of both.

Offline Zook

  • Evil Incarnate
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 14144
  • Gender: Male
  • Take My Hand
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3962 on: March 03, 2014, 09:10:01 AM »
Score was the last good DT live release so none of this breathy nonsense affects me in any way because I don't bother listening to any of the new live albums.

Offline TheGreatPretender

  • The Second Dancing Turtle
  • Posts: 6981
  • Gender: Male
  • You are reading these words.
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3963 on: March 03, 2014, 03:45:01 PM »
How is that nit-picky? Do other people not hear how bad those S's sound on Live at Luna Park? Maybe not everyone detects it, but for me, it stops me from being able to listen to those songs.

I think both of you guys are right, to a degree. More recently, James HAS been doing a more whisper/breathy thing live. Extending the consonants while breathing heavy sounds like an apt description. However, I do think there was something weird going on with the sound on LALP, compression or something. So it's not ALL James or ALL the recording, but a bit of both.

That's what I said.

To clarify, when I said nitpicky, I mean, the sheer concept of saying, "A singer shouldn't be extending his consonants, he should be extending his vowels, and any other way is wrong." I'm not saying that it was the best decision on James's part, in that particular instance, but to say as a rule that all singers must extend vowels, and not consonants, sounds like some artistically restricting BS to me.
"How's that for a slice of fried gold?"

Offline YOWspotter

  • Posts: 13
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3964 on: March 04, 2014, 08:33:28 AM »
My controversial opinion:

A coworker of mine and I just realized we have similar musical interests.  He introduced me to Fates Warning, and specifically told me to listen to the first and last tracks off their latest release.

I find the track "And Yet It Moves" to be simply stunning; a "masterpiece" so-to-speak.  I can't think of any single track by DT that can top this.  As DT is my favourite band, it "pains" me to admit this.

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

  • Heir Transparent
  • Posts: 7663
  • Gender: Male
  • Transcribing Existence Rivets
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3965 on: March 04, 2014, 08:35:43 AM »
Maybe you need a new favorite band.

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 41963
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3966 on: March 04, 2014, 08:49:26 AM »
My controversial opinion:

A coworker of mine and I just realized we have similar musical interests.  He introduced me to Fates Warning, and specifically told me to listen to the first and last tracks off their latest release.

I find the track "And Yet It Moves" to be simply stunning; a "masterpiece" so-to-speak.  I can't think of any single track by DT that can top this.  As DT is my favourite band, it "pains" me to admit this.

Eh, don't sweat it.  There is no rule that says your favorite band has to have your favorite song.

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12786
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3967 on: March 04, 2014, 08:50:46 AM »
Dream Theater IS playing it safe right now. Or in other words, they've become pussies.

Insulting band members is against forum rules.  Consider this your warning.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline Viking of the Sagas

  • Posts: 293
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3968 on: March 04, 2014, 08:54:48 AM »
Cool, I'll dress it up in nice language next time.

Offline YOWspotter

  • Posts: 13
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3969 on: March 04, 2014, 08:56:02 AM »
So to clarify, I put "pains" in quotations because it's not really that important to me.  i.e., I haven't been crying myself to sleep every night since making this discovery.

In this particular example, I feel that the other band is really exhibiting its maximum ability, whereas with DT, I don't feel that's happening.

Or maybe they are, and "others" are just that much better?  I don't know.  I must plead some ignorance since my musical interests aren't that vast.

Offline ?

  • Apparently the best username
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 11742
  • Gender: Male
  • Less=Moore, Even Less=Wilson
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3970 on: March 04, 2014, 09:05:04 AM »
My controversial opinion:

A coworker of mine and I just realized we have similar musical interests.  He introduced me to Fates Warning, and specifically told me to listen to the first and last tracks off their latest release.

I find the track "And Yet It Moves" to be simply stunning; a "masterpiece" so-to-speak.  I can't think of any single track by DT that can top this.  As DT is my favourite band, it "pains" me to admit this.
And Yet It Moves is a fantastic song indeed :tup

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12786
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3971 on: March 04, 2014, 09:05:30 AM »
Cool, I'll dress it up in nice language next time.

Or you could just drop the attitude and follow the forum rules.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12786
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3972 on: March 04, 2014, 09:06:11 AM »
My controversial opinion:

A coworker of mine and I just realized we have similar musical interests.  He introduced me to Fates Warning, and specifically told me to listen to the first and last tracks off their latest release.

I find the track "And Yet It Moves" to be simply stunning; a "masterpiece" so-to-speak.  I can't think of any single track by DT that can top this.  As DT is my favourite band, it "pains" me to admit this.
And Yet It Moves is a fantastic song indeed :tup

That album has quite a few, actually.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59288
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3973 on: March 04, 2014, 04:34:56 PM »
Dream Theater IS playing it safe right now. Or in other words, they've become pussies.

Insulting band members is against forum rules.  Consider this your warning.

Cool, I'll dress it up in nice language next time.

Who's the pussy now?!   :lol

Couldn't help myself. :lol
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline MinistryOfLostSouls

  • Posts: 92
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm a vewy vewy nithe guy
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3974 on: March 04, 2014, 08:17:43 PM »
-Ministry of Lost Souls is the best Dream Theater song ever written
-The worst Dream Theater song written is any time Portnoy was singing

Offline Rodni Demental

  • Posts: 1113
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3975 on: March 04, 2014, 08:23:04 PM »
Eh, don't sweat it.  There is no rule that says your favorite band has to have your favorite song.

Yeah totally, I think it's safe to say Dream Theater is one of my favourite bands for consistency, musicianship and variety but a lot of my favourite songs of all time are one offs from bands that I never really got into, they just stumbled across a musical gem that clicked with me for one or two tracks and then they go back to their original direction or another direction that doesn't interest me. It happens to everyone.  :lol

Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 38940
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3976 on: March 04, 2014, 08:42:41 PM »
-The worst Dream Theater song written is any time Portnoy was singing


Oh hooray! Another Portnoy hater!  :\
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3977 on: March 04, 2014, 08:53:02 PM »
-Ministry of Lost Souls is the best Dream Theater song ever written
-The worst Dream Theater song written is any time Portnoy was singing

I sure do hate that Fatal Tragedy. But nothing's worse than Home!

Also, I just pulled up the video Ministry of Lost Souls from Chaos In Motion because I was 99% sure that Mike sang on that track (though I knew the "drowning in the past" part was John), and Mike definitely sings with James, at least live, on the "Living in a world without you" line.  :lol
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

  • Heir Transparent
  • Posts: 7663
  • Gender: Male
  • Transcribing Existence Rivets
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3978 on: March 04, 2014, 08:56:28 PM »
I'm pretty sure it's James on the album, though.

Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 38940
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3979 on: March 04, 2014, 09:06:03 PM »
If it included songs that MP sang on live, that wouldn't leave much at all.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline MinistryOfLostSouls

  • Posts: 92
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm a vewy vewy nithe guy
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3980 on: March 04, 2014, 09:27:36 PM »
-The worst Dream Theater song written is any time Portnoy was singing


Oh hooray! Another Portnoy hater!  :\
-Ministry of Lost Souls is the best Dream Theater song ever written
-The worst Dream Theater song written is any time Portnoy was singing

I sure do hate that Fatal Tragedy. But nothing's worse than Home!

Also, I just pulled up the video Ministry of Lost Souls from Chaos In Motion because I was 99% sure that Mike sang on that track (though I knew the "drowning in the past" part was John), and Mike definitely sings with James, at least live, on the "Living in a world without you" line.  :lol

Portnoy probably sang on the album version, too.  I meant sections of music where he was contributing leads.  I just don't feel his voice was ever up to being on albums as a lead.  No disrespect meant.  His backing vocals, and harmonization skills, and understanding of complex harmony was always appreciated.  As a former contributing member of Dream Theater I most certainly do not hate Mike Portnoy.  He co-wrote some of the most bad ass Dream Theater songs in existence. 
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 09:50:15 PM by MinistryOfLostSouls »

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3981 on: March 04, 2014, 10:09:50 PM »
That MP's vocals weren't up to snuff is not exactly a controversial opinion. There's parts of LSFNY that are virtually unlistenable to because of his singing.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 38940
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3982 on: March 04, 2014, 10:11:07 PM »
I find JLB's vocals much more bothersome than any of MP's on LSFNY. He sounds like a foghorn by the end of ACOS.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline XB0BX

  • Posts: 512
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3983 on: March 04, 2014, 10:13:30 PM »
JLB was amazing on LSFNY.

Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 38940
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3984 on: March 04, 2014, 10:14:46 PM »
LSFNY was the first time I'd ever heard DT live, and I was very letdown that JLB sounded nowhere near as good live as he did on the albums. By LTL/ACOS, he is sounding worn out.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3985 on: March 04, 2014, 10:36:05 PM »
I actually just watched ACOS, and yeah the high notes are strained at the end. But fuck, other than that, it's safe to say that that was their heyday. They don't look like a biker gang yet, MP is busting his ass behind the kit, and JP looks normal still. Oh, and JR still looked like Rowlf from the Muppet Show. Oh the days.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 38940
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3986 on: March 04, 2014, 10:37:42 PM »
As much as I like LSFNY, it was also relatively sloppy for them. Budokan was a much better performance from them all around (even JLB, aside from PMU/ITNOG), and the video show didn't induce seizures. LSFNY was still climbing out of their dark period.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3987 on: March 04, 2014, 10:39:52 PM »
To each their own. To me, SFAM and LSFNY, despite the sketchy video editing, is for me the absolute pinnacle of the band. It was just now a joy watching them perform that tune.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 38940
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3988 on: March 04, 2014, 10:42:34 PM »
I couldn't possible consider anything pre-SDOIT their pinnacle, since that's missing out on their best album, and JLB was not great live in the FII-SDOIT era. I'd have to say ToT era, despite JP's haircut.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline GasparXR

  • Posts: 3020
  • Why would I put something personal here?
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3989 on: March 04, 2014, 11:47:46 PM »
Portnoy probably sang on the album version, too.  I meant sections of music where he was contributing leads.  I just don't feel his voice was ever up to being on albums as a lead.  No disrespect meant.  His backing vocals, and harmonization skills, and understanding of complex harmony was always appreciated. As a former contributing member of Dream Theater I most certainly do not hate Mike Portnoy.  He co-wrote some of the most bad ass Dream Theater songs in existence. 

...Am I the only one who caught this? :lol