Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 908053 times)

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Offline Grizz

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #945 on: May 07, 2013, 04:36:35 PM »
Well, isn't the main idea of a vocal demo to be a guideline to tell James what to do? (Except for Best of Times, obviously, where the vocal demo served a second important purpose.) How can James know what note to sing (well, besides sheet music and common sense) if John is singing it wrong?
But then there's the question of why RRR decided to release the vocal demo. Wither wasn't even single worthy to begin with.
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Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #946 on: May 07, 2013, 04:42:30 PM »
Lol John definitely cannot sing (Wither JP vocal demo had AUTOTUNING.  :facepalm:)

Well, he's not a lead singer, that's for sure. He doesn't have a particularly strong voice, or exceptional range.

However, saying he can't sing is just not true. He's sang (sung?) backup for a long time, and he's done a good job with it. The Wither demo was just made to give James a feel for how the song was supposed to be sung. If they had planned on releasing it with JP singing, I think he would made more of an effort to hit all the notes right. But for what it was, there was nothing wrong it.

Also, LOTS of singers use autotune. James uses it sometimes. Occasionally it's just easier to repair that one little mistake with autotune than it is to sing the whole thing again.

Well, that's my opinion. Free, and most likely worth what it costs.   ;)
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 04:47:49 PM by Shadow Ninja 2.0 »
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Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #947 on: May 07, 2013, 04:43:12 PM »
Well, isn't the main idea of a vocal demo to be a guideline to tell James what to do? (Except for Best of Times, obviously, where the vocal demo served a second important purpose.) How can James know what note to sing (well, besides sheet music and common sense) if John is singing it wrong?
But then there's the question of why RRR decided to release the vocal demo. Wither wasn't even single worthy to begin with.

Man, you ninja'd me. I type too slow.
if the flow checks out and your rhymes are dope enough then the police start unholstering their guns

Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #948 on: May 07, 2013, 06:59:07 PM »
Dominici completely ruins When Dream and Day Unite. It's a damn shame too, because the music that I've been able to stomach is quite awesome.

Personally, I don't think it's Dominici himself that ruins it, it's just that most of the vocal melodies on WDADU aren't that good. It's not so much a problem with his ability as a singer, as it is with the actual compositions. I know these days, JP, and whoever writes the music, they come up with the vocal melodies too, which is why we have things like "JP Vocal Demo", but WDADU really seemed like Charlie just kind of winged the vocal melodies, and most of the time, they just didn't fit that well. And that's why even James can't really salvage a lot of those songs, like The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun.
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Offline Grizz

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #949 on: May 07, 2013, 07:59:01 PM »
I just find it difficult to listen past his voice. It's a problem I have with Geddy Lee too, but not as much.
"I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!"

Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #950 on: May 08, 2013, 06:32:07 AM »
I just find it difficult to listen past his voice. It's a problem I have with Geddy Lee too, but not as much.

Well, I'm sure if the vocal melodies were better written, and more suitable for his range, he'd sound much better.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #951 on: May 08, 2013, 12:24:01 PM »
Lol John definitely cannot sing (Wither JP vocal demo had AUTOTUNING.  :facepalm: )

Well, he's not a lead singer, that's for sure. He doesn't have a particularly strong voice, or exceptional range.

However, saying he can't sing is just not true. He's sang (sung?) backup for a long time, and he's done a good job with it. The Wither demo was just made to give James a feel for how the song was supposed to be sung. If they had planned on releasing it with JP singing, I think he would made more of an effort to hit all the notes right. But for what it was, there was nothing wrong it.

Also, LOTS of singers use autotune. James uses it sometimes. Occasionally it's just easier to repair that one little mistake with autotune than it is to sing the whole thing again.

Well, that's my opinion. Free, and most likely worth what it costs.   ;)


The truth is, pitch correction software is used on practically every modern album to fix imperfections in both lead and backing vocals.   Recording budgets are not what the used to be and you are exactly right that repairing -as opposed to redoing- an otherwise acceptable performance is now pretty much standard operating procedure in most studios. 

Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #952 on: May 08, 2013, 12:27:14 PM »
The truth is, pitch correction software is used on practically every modern album to fix imperfections in both lead and backing vocals.   Recording budgets are not what the used to be and you are exactly right that repairing -as opposed to redoing- an otherwise acceptable performance is now pretty much standard operating procedure in most studios.

Unfortunately.
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Offline Lucien

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #953 on: May 08, 2013, 02:22:36 PM »
When I say autotune I mean really obvious autotune. As obvious as Friday, for instance (yep, I said it.)
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Offline Grizz

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #954 on: May 08, 2013, 02:33:17 PM »
Again, the vocal demos are not meant for public ears. The Wither single should never have existed anyway.
John without autotune:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEhY420yUJ0
"I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!"

Offline JayOctavarium

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #955 on: May 08, 2013, 02:36:21 PM »
 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline wasteland

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #956 on: May 08, 2013, 02:42:22 PM »
Hey, that's not the way you react to a top 10 all time DT moment!  :borlag:
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Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #957 on: May 08, 2013, 02:46:25 PM »
Well, I admit, that's pretty bad. He was obviously aware of that, though.
if the flow checks out and your rhymes are dope enough then the police start unholstering their guns

Offline perfey

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #958 on: May 08, 2013, 02:47:04 PM »
 :rollin Love the laughs :P.

Offline JayOctavarium

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #959 on: May 08, 2013, 02:57:49 PM »
Hey, that's not the way you react to a top 10 all time DT moment!  :borlag:

was that directed towards me?
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #960 on: May 08, 2013, 03:01:15 PM »
I love James at 2:20-something saying "and you said John couldn't sing".

1000 of my comments start with "I love James".

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Offline DebraKadabra

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #961 on: May 09, 2013, 02:25:05 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEhY420yUJ0

 :rollin :rollin :rollin

:rollin Love the laughs :P .

Me too. :lol

I love James at 2:20-something saying "and you said John couldn't sing".

1000 of my comments start with "I love James".

James is the bee's fucking KNEES, people. :hearts:

Offline GasparXR

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #962 on: May 09, 2013, 10:46:10 AM »
James is the bee's fucking KNEES, people. :hearts:

Knees do that? :hat
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Offline DebraKadabra

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #963 on: May 10, 2013, 02:02:14 AM »
Sure, why not? :lol :eyebrows:

Offline Great King Rat

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #964 on: August 05, 2013, 12:33:39 PM »
Found this thread and wanted to add a few things (maybe they've been mentioned already):

- based on what I've heard James is mostly a very mediocre live vocalist and their official live albums sound way to polished. Related to this:
- their Metallica tribute where they played the MoP album is one of the worst musical monstrosities evah! After about two songs in they should have thought "nope, we're not gonna continue with this"
- Goodnight kiss is one of their best songs evah! Gives me shivers everytime.

Offline Lucien

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #965 on: August 05, 2013, 01:25:33 PM »
The Enemy Inside is probably their best heavy song. (over The Glass Prison.)
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Offline Joshin U

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #966 on: August 05, 2013, 01:30:27 PM »
I do not like the chorus for LITS.

Or Doug Pinnick's backing vocals.



At all.



Like, not even a little bit.

Offline aprilethereal

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #967 on: August 05, 2013, 01:40:24 PM »
The Enemy Inside is probably their best heavy song. (over The Glass Prison.)

Ehm not really ;)
I love it, but rating it above Endless Sacrifice, ITNOG, BITS, Panic Attack, This Dying Soul, Honor Thy Father, The Glass Prison, The Mirror and even TDEN feels kind of strange to me. But that's what this thread is for :tup



I do not like the chorus for LITS.

Or Doug Pinnick's backing vocals.



At all.



Like, not even a little bit.

I agree with this. The weakest part of the song for sure.

Offline aXygnus

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #968 on: August 05, 2013, 01:40:53 PM »
The Ministry of Lost Souls is in the top 10 of songs, maybe even top 5 for me.

The instrumental is their best besides maybe Bridges in the Sky (it just flows so smoothly for me) and the outro is quite possibly their best besides Losing Time/Grand Finale, The Best of Times and Finally Free.

Offline aprilethereal

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #969 on: August 05, 2013, 01:44:16 PM »
Sign me up for the TMOLS lovers club as well :heart

Offline Scorpion

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #970 on: August 05, 2013, 01:49:50 PM »
I'll have to agree with my countryman there as well. TMOLS is awesome, my favourite track from SC.
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Offline aprilethereal

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #971 on: August 05, 2013, 01:52:11 PM »
:-*

Offline Scorpion

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #972 on: August 05, 2013, 01:57:43 PM »
Back atcha buddy. :-*
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Offline MadImmortalMan

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #973 on: August 05, 2013, 03:14:52 PM »
Here's some of mine, though generally I don't have too many left-field opinions about DT.

- Another Day is one of DT's best songs.
- So is ITNOG. (contrast!)
- The only song I really care for at all on SC is TDEN
- The rapping in HTF is really edgy in a good way
- I'm not to impressed by the longer songs on ADTOE, the shorter songs/ballads are great though
- KM was their best lyricist by a few nautical miles.
- I miss the rotating setlists...
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Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #974 on: August 05, 2013, 03:17:10 PM »
I agree about Another Day and Kevin Moore.
if the flow checks out and your rhymes are dope enough then the police start unholstering their guns

Offline Grizz

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #975 on: August 05, 2013, 03:53:16 PM »
Here's some of mine, though generally I don't have too many left-field opinions about DT.

- Another Day is one of DT's best songs.
- So is ITNOG. (contrast!)
- The rapping in HTF is really edgy in a good way
- I miss the rotating setlists...
I agree with these, and the others I haven't really looked into, as I rarely listen to those albums and haven't really looked into the lyrics.
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #976 on: August 05, 2013, 04:01:48 PM »
The Ministry of Lost Souls is in the top 10 of songs, maybe even top 5 for me.

The instrumental is their best besides maybe Bridges in the Sky (it just flows so smoothly for me) and the outro is quite possibly their best besides Losing Time/Grand Finale, The Best of Times and Finally Free.

Sign me up for the TMOLS lovers club as well :heart

I'll have to agree with my countryman there as well. TMOLS is awesome, my favourite track from SC.

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Offline fibreoptix

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #977 on: August 07, 2013, 08:23:37 AM »
I rate Falling Into Infinity higher than Images and Words.

That's right.

Offline Scorpion

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #978 on: August 07, 2013, 08:25:44 AM »
I rate Falling Into Infinity higher than Images and Words.

That's right.

:hifive:
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Offline Joshin U

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #979 on: August 07, 2013, 08:37:32 AM »
I also think the chorus for Blind Faith is one of the poorest that DT has done.