Your Controversial Opinions on DT

Started by Lucidity, December 17, 2012, 08:28:25 PM

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Grizz

Well, isn't the main idea of a vocal demo to be a guideline to tell James what to do? (Except for Best of Times, obviously, where the vocal demo served a second important purpose.) How can James know what note to sing (well, besides sheet music and common sense) if John is singing it wrong?
But then there's the question of why RRR decided to release the vocal demo. Wither wasn't even single worthy to begin with.

Shadow Ninja 2.0

#946
Quote from: Lucien on May 07, 2013, 04:31:11 PM
Lol John definitely cannot sing (Wither JP vocal demo had AUTOTUNING.  :facepalm:)

Well, he's not a lead singer, that's for sure. He doesn't have a particularly strong voice, or exceptional range.

However, saying he can't sing is just not true. He's sang (sung?) backup for a long time, and he's done a good job with it. The Wither demo was just made to give James a feel for how the song was supposed to be sung. If they had planned on releasing it with JP singing, I think he would made more of an effort to hit all the notes right. But for what it was, there was nothing wrong it.

Also, LOTS of singers use autotune. James uses it sometimes. Occasionally it's just easier to repair that one little mistake with autotune than it is to sing the whole thing again.

Well, that's my opinion. Free, and most likely worth what it costs.   ;)

Shadow Ninja 2.0

Quote from: Grizz on May 07, 2013, 04:36:35 PM
Well, isn't the main idea of a vocal demo to be a guideline to tell James what to do? (Except for Best of Times, obviously, where the vocal demo served a second important purpose.) How can James know what note to sing (well, besides sheet music and common sense) if John is singing it wrong?
But then there's the question of why RRR decided to release the vocal demo. Wither wasn't even single worthy to begin with.

Man, you ninja'd me. I type too slow.

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: Grizz on May 07, 2013, 03:21:07 PM
Dominici completely ruins When Dream and Day Unite. It's a damn shame too, because the music that I've been able to stomach is quite awesome.

Personally, I don't think it's Dominici himself that ruins it, it's just that most of the vocal melodies on WDADU aren't that good. It's not so much a problem with his ability as a singer, as it is with the actual compositions. I know these days, JP, and whoever writes the music, they come up with the vocal melodies too, which is why we have things like "JP Vocal Demo", but WDADU really seemed like Charlie just kind of winged the vocal melodies, and most of the time, they just didn't fit that well. And that's why even James can't really salvage a lot of those songs, like The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun.

Grizz

I just find it difficult to listen past his voice. It's a problem I have with Geddy Lee too, but not as much.

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: Grizz on May 07, 2013, 07:59:01 PM
I just find it difficult to listen past his voice. It's a problem I have with Geddy Lee too, but not as much.

Well, I'm sure if the vocal melodies were better written, and more suitable for his range, he'd sound much better.

kirksnosehair

Quote from: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on May 07, 2013, 04:42:30 PM
Quote from: Lucien on May 07, 2013, 04:31:11 PM
Lol John definitely cannot sing (Wither JP vocal demo had AUTOTUNING.  :facepalm: )

Well, he's not a lead singer, that's for sure. He doesn't have a particularly strong voice, or exceptional range.

However, saying he can't sing is just not true. He's sang (sung?) backup for a long time, and he's done a good job with it. The Wither demo was just made to give James a feel for how the song was supposed to be sung. If they had planned on releasing it with JP singing, I think he would made more of an effort to hit all the notes right. But for what it was, there was nothing wrong it.

Also, LOTS of singers use autotune. James uses it sometimes. Occasionally it's just easier to repair that one little mistake with autotune than it is to sing the whole thing again.

Well, that's my opinion. Free, and most likely worth what it costs.   ;)


The truth is, pitch correction software is used on practically every modern album to fix imperfections in both lead and backing vocals.   Recording budgets are not what the used to be and you are exactly right that repairing -as opposed to redoing- an otherwise acceptable performance is now pretty much standard operating procedure in most studios. 

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: kirksnosehair on May 08, 2013, 12:24:01 PM
The truth is, pitch correction software is used on practically every modern album to fix imperfections in both lead and backing vocals.   Recording budgets are not what the used to be and you are exactly right that repairing -as opposed to redoing- an otherwise acceptable performance is now pretty much standard operating procedure in most studios.

Unfortunately.

Lucien

When I say autotune I mean really obvious autotune. As obvious as Friday, for instance (yep, I said it.)

Grizz

Again, the vocal demos are not meant for public ears. The Wither single should never have existed anyway.
John without autotune:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEhY420yUJ0

JayOctavarium


wasteland

Hey, that's not the way you react to a top 10 all time DT moment!  :borlag:

Shadow Ninja 2.0

Well, I admit, that's pretty bad. He was obviously aware of that, though.

perfey


JayOctavarium

Quote from: wasteland on May 08, 2013, 02:42:22 PM
Hey, that's not the way you react to a top 10 all time DT moment!  :borlag:

was that directed towards me?

MoraWintersoul

I love James at 2:20-something saying "and you said John couldn't sing".

1000 of my comments start with "I love James".

DebraKadabra

Quote from: Grizz on May 08, 2013, 02:33:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEhY420yUJ0

:rollin :rollin :rollin

Quote from: perfey on May 08, 2013, 02:47:04 PM
:rollin Love the laughs :P .

Me too. :lol

Quote from: MoraWintersoul on May 08, 2013, 03:01:15 PM
I love James at 2:20-something saying "and you said John couldn't sing".

1000 of my comments start with "I love James".

James is the bee's fucking KNEES, people. :hearts:

GasparXR


DebraKadabra


Great King Rat

Found this thread and wanted to add a few things (maybe they've been mentioned already):

- based on what I've heard James is mostly a very mediocre live vocalist and their official live albums sound way to polished. Related to this:
- their Metallica tribute where they played the MoP album is one of the worst musical monstrosities evah! After about two songs in they should have thought "nope, we're not gonna continue with this"
- Goodnight kiss is one of their best songs evah! Gives me shivers everytime.

Lucien

The Enemy Inside is probably their best heavy song. (over The Glass Prison.)

Joshin U

I do not like the chorus for LITS.

Or Doug Pinnick's backing vocals.



At all.



Like, not even a little bit.

aprilethereal

Quote from: Lucien on August 05, 2013, 01:25:33 PM
The Enemy Inside is probably their best heavy song. (over The Glass Prison.)

Ehm not really ;)
I love it, but rating it above Endless Sacrifice, ITNOG, BITS, Panic Attack, This Dying Soul, Honor Thy Father, The Glass Prison, The Mirror and even TDEN feels kind of strange to me. But that's what this thread is for :tup



Quote from: Joshin U on August 05, 2013, 01:30:27 PM
I do not like the chorus for LITS.

Or Doug Pinnick's backing vocals.



At all.



Like, not even a little bit.

I agree with this. The weakest part of the song for sure.

aXygnus

The Ministry of Lost Souls is in the top 10 of songs, maybe even top 5 for me.

The instrumental is their best besides maybe Bridges in the Sky (it just flows so smoothly for me) and the outro is quite possibly their best besides Losing Time/Grand Finale, The Best of Times and Finally Free.

aprilethereal

Sign me up for the TMOLS lovers club as well :heart

Scorpion

I'll have to agree with my countryman there as well. TMOLS is awesome, my favourite track from SC.


Scorpion


MadImmortalMan

Here's some of mine, though generally I don't have too many left-field opinions about DT.

- Another Day is one of DT's best songs.
- So is ITNOG. (contrast!)
- The only song I really care for at all on SC is TDEN
- The rapping in HTF is really edgy in a good way
- I'm not to impressed by the longer songs on ADTOE, the shorter songs/ballads are great though
- KM was their best lyricist by a few nautical miles.
- I miss the rotating setlists...

Shadow Ninja 2.0

I agree about Another Day and Kevin Moore.

Grizz

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 05, 2013, 03:14:52 PM
Here's some of mine, though generally I don't have too many left-field opinions about DT.

- Another Day is one of DT's best songs.
- So is ITNOG. (contrast!)
- The rapping in HTF is really edgy in a good way
- I miss the rotating setlists...
I agree with these, and the others I haven't really looked into, as I rarely listen to those albums and haven't really looked into the lyrics.

Dublagent66

Quote from: aXygnus on August 05, 2013, 01:40:53 PM
The Ministry of Lost Souls is in the top 10 of songs, maybe even top 5 for me.

The instrumental is their best besides maybe Bridges in the Sky (it just flows so smoothly for me) and the outro is quite possibly their best besides Losing Time/Grand Finale, The Best of Times and Finally Free.

Quote from: aprilethereal on August 05, 2013, 01:44:16 PM
Sign me up for the TMOLS lovers club as well :heart

Quote from: Scorpion on August 05, 2013, 01:49:50 PM
I'll have to agree with my countryman there as well. TMOLS is awesome, my favourite track from SC.

:tup

fibreoptix

I rate Falling Into Infinity higher than Images and Words.

That's right.

Scorpion

Quote from: fibreoptix on August 07, 2013, 08:23:37 AM
I rate Falling Into Infinity higher than Images and Words.

That's right.

:hifive:

Joshin U

I also think the chorus for Blind Faith is one of the poorest that DT has done.