Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[1neeto]

Lots of trololol posts here so i'll contribute.

Forsaken has the best lyrical content of any DT song. In fact, SC is a lyrical masterpiece.

DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.

Well, it is a Controversial Opinions thread afterall.

What's not epic about vampires and dark masters? 

And your answer is       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti0H-bvMi3I

Great movie. 

[ReaperKK]

Catching up on this thread but I wanted to add this:

JP was a much more innovated and interesting guitar player pre-SDOIT. Pretty much when he signed with Ernie Ball I feel his work as a guitar player has been as good as his Ibanez days not saying the guitar had anything to do with it.

When I listen to "Bombay Vindaloo" and the extended "To Live Forever" jam I hear some amazing, creative guitar player. When I hear things like the extended Hollow Years solo or the BTL jam from Budokan I just hear shredding that is pretty forgettable. 

[1neeto]

Ok in all seriousness I truly believe that SC is a very under appreciated album. It has some fun to listen songs like TDEK and ITPOE is a great epic. POW though, ranks as my least favorite DT song ever, even worse than SDV from Awake.

[Tunnel Vision]

TDEN's instrumental section may be the best part of the song...It feels very 'fun' to me

[The Presence of Frenemies]

My least favorite thing about DT's music is when they do long instrumental sections that consist mostly of riffs. I wish they would have more songs where the instrumental sections consisted mostly of solos (either one solo, tradeoffs, or multiple solos throughout the song) then having one mammoth section that is 2/3 a bunch of "establishing riffs" and jamming. Like the first part of the TMOLS instrumental, or the first two minutes of The Reckoning, or all the TDEN stuff. It's not like it never works (a lot of the early stuff used it well), but since ToT I feel like it's become a tired formula to stretch songs out that tends to interrupt the flow of things. I know DT is known for being all jammy and proggy, and I'm as big a pusher of big song lengths as anyone on this forum, but I just wish the instrumental time was used more for playing off the pre-existing feel of a song than taking several minutes to establish a new feel and jam over it for no clear reason.

[jsem]

Strange deja vu is the best song on SFAM

Agreed.

Oh, and Razor's Edge is completely overrated. Full Circle is the best part of the 8vm the song.

[Scorpion]

I agree on the Razor's Edge part, but I actually prefer Intervals. It's a great climax to the song.

[BlobVanDam]

Ok, I think I've gathered up the courage to post my list. To keep some balance, I'm making sure to include both positive and negative opinions. I see I'm not the only person to arrange it this way.
Disclaimer - Obviously these are just my opinions, but it's easier to write it this way, and it's what everyone else is doing anyway.

CONTROVERSIALLY NEGATIVE
WDADU is so amateurish and poorly written that I don't count it as a real DT album.
ADTOE is near the bottom of DT's discography, and has the worst mix/production of any DT album besides WDADU.
The last half hour of Awake drags the album down to one of DT's weakest, and Scarred is DT's worst song since WDADU (yep, worse than Lie, YNM, BMS, TAMP, JLMB, IWBY, NE etc)
LTL is the weakest song on IaW, due to its weak vocal melodies and phrasing. (Aside from those flaws, it is otherwise a great song)
I'm going to use the word weak again just to see if anybody's paying attention.
ACOS is overrated (but still a decent song), and Octavarium is the far superior epic, and much more musically cohesive.
OIALT is ruined by DS's poor playing and JLB's voice during that era (but both have managed to improve to excellent in more recent times )
Kevin Moore was an average lyricist, and no better than anyone else in the band.

CONTROVERSIALLY POSITIVE
SC is a great album (even though I don't consider it one of DT's best by any means), and hugely underrated.
TDEN is a top 20 DT song, and has one of DT's best instrumental sections.
IAW's production is awesome, including the '80s triggered snare. ESPECIALLY the triggered snare!
FII is one of DT's best albums (4th for me just behind SDOIT/SFAM/IaW).
MP's harmonies (along with JP's) are one of the best features of modern DT albums that is sorely lacking on ADTOE (bring back more JP backing vocals dangit! And maybe JR too. This would be swell.)
A lot of DT's straight ahead metal songs like As I Am, TROAE, and CM, are top tier DT songs.
SDOIT is DT's best album in every regard, and the title track is a masterpiece, and DT's best long song.
TGP is a top 5 DT song (I rank it 1 or 2, but I'll be lenient and allow up to top 5 before I rage at you ). I probably wouldn't have added this one if there weren't so many non-believers in this thread.
Vacant is DT's most emotional ballad.


Deal with it!

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

IAW's production is awesome, including the '80s triggered snare. ESPECIALLY the triggered snare!

Ahh hellyeah!!  We are now BBF Blob-san!

[BlobVanDam]

Great! Let's go listen to some Firehouse!

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Yes let's do dat! Baby, don't treat me baaaaaad! Kaffwwwwwwww!

[BlobVanDam]

I'm much more of a fan of Hold Your Fire.

Whoooooaaaa we'll rock you tonight! We're gonna rock you tonight!


Inspirational stuff.

[King Postwhore]

*Evil glare at BVD & MrBoom for the Firehouse reference*



At least use Dokken.

[BlobVanDam]

*Evil glare at BVD & MrBoom for the Firehouse reference*



At least use Dokken.

But Dokken wasn't produced by the same guy as IaW, so that doesn't work!


Oh fine. We're the dreeeeeeeeeeam warrioooooooors!

[Kotowboy]

  Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT

I love Mangini as a person and as a drummer - but his solos bore me to death.


I don't like listening to anything where it's primarily about technique rather than just playing a groove with some tasty fills...


In music college - i'd hear guitarists go " Oh that scale worked great over that altered chord ".

It just leaves me cold - i'd rather hear one note being played with 100% feel than some alternate scale simply because the theory behind it is interesting.

[Rattlehead]

I agree with the majority of Blob's opinions, except a few, most notably on TGP, which COULD be a top 5 song for me, but there is way too much fat that needs to be trimmed off  In other words it drags on way too long and could benefit from being cleaned up a bit. It's somewhere in my top 20-25 though.

Also... in my opinion 8vm could've been a masterpiece but the full circle part is really weak and James' vocals are cringeworthy. But the rest of the song is awesome.

[Sycsa]

  Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT

I love Mangini as a person and as a drummer - but his solos bore me to death.


I don't like listening to anything where it's primarily about technique rather than just playing a groove with some tasty fills...


In music college - i'd hear guitarists go " Oh that scale worked great over that altered chord ".

It just leaves me cold - i'd rather hear one note being played with 100% feel than some alternate scale simply because the theory behind it is interesting.

Really? Because this is one of the most musical and interesting drum solos I've heard in a while. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvH1Y20cJ6M

[King Postwhore]

*Evil glare at BVD & MrBoom for the Firehouse reference*



At least use Dokken.

But Dokken wasn't produced by the same guy as IaW, so that doesn't work!


Oh fine. We're the dreeeeeeeeeeam warrioooooooors!

Much better!

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

  Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT

I love Mangini as a person and as a drummer - but his solos bore me to death.


I don't like listening to anything where it's primarily about technique rather than just playing a groove with some tasty fills...


In music college - i'd hear guitarists go " Oh that scale worked great over that altered chord ".

It just leaves me cold - i'd rather hear one note being played with 100% feel than some alternate scale simply because the theory behind it is interesting.

It's not always black and white, good players can incorporate brilliant technic and maintain 100% feel and musicality. Those are the ones i look up to, not just one of each. I will never look down on someone how has brilliant technic no matter what because you can't fake technical stuff even if it sounds a little ruff, it takes alot of practice. Musicality and virtuosity should always go hand and hand and are equally important even if you play the simplest form of music.

[MoraWintersoul]

*Evil glare at BVD & MrBoom for the Firehouse reference*

So I'm too late to say Reach for the skyyyy or I will shoot you down in a blink of an eyeeeee ?

[BlobVanDam]

*Evil glare at BVD & MrBoom for the Firehouse reference*

So I'm too late to say Reach for the skyyyy or I will shoot you down in a blink of an eyeeeee ?

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

*Evil glare at BVD & MrBoom for the Firehouse reference*

So I'm too late to say Reach for the skyyyy or I will shoot you down in a blink of an eyeeeee ?

[wasteland]

I foresee that the Milena reaction will be the 2013 DTF phenomenon.

Anyway, once again, clarify your quotes, dissipate my ignorance

[BlobVanDam]

I foresee that the Milena reaction will be the 2013 DTF phenomenon.

Wasn't it already the 2012 DTF phenomenon? It's just so endlessly versatile!

[Sketchy]

And so delightful.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

The triggered snare sounds kind of weird in spots on IAW (fast rolls in particular), but otherwise I totally agree. I love me some 80s production.

[Cable]

The triggered snare sounds kind of weird in spots on IAW (fast rolls in particular), but otherwise I totally agree. I love me some 80s production.

I love how the triggered snare sounds starting with the new riff @ 7:23 during Metropolis Pt. I. All live recordings  of the song make me frown during that riff section because the triggered snare adds fitting power during the riff.

And while on Metropolis Pt. I...
-Minus the live intro with the Score version, the WDADR version is superior to the Score version of Met pt.1.

[Pols Voice]

IAW's production is awesome, including the '80s triggered snare. ESPECIALLY the triggered snare!
FII is one of DT's best albums (4th for me just behind SDOIT/SFAM/IaW).

Those are the only two things you said I agree with (except FII is 4th for me behind Awake/IAW/SFAM).   I do think OIALT is hampered by LaBrie's performance, which isn't a controversial opinion, but Derek's playing is fine.

[wasteland]

Those are the only two things you said I agree with (except FII is 4th for me behind Awake/IAW/SFAM).   I do think OIALT is hampered by LaBrie's performance, which isn't a controversial opinion, but Derek's playing is fine.

Oh, yeah, my controversial opinion is that OYALT is sung quite well, and that the vocal performance doesn't diminish the awesomeness of the record nor the amount of enjoyment on my part.

[Kotowboy]

Dunno how controversial this is but I think FII is better than SC.

New Millenium. Trial of Tears. Lines In The Sand. Hell's Kitchen.

All better than anything on SC.

[TheGreatPretender]

Dunno how controversial this is but I think FII is better than SC.

New Millenium. Trial of Tears. Lines In The Sand. Hell's Kitchen.

All better than anything on SC.

I don't think that's very controversial. I heavily disagree though.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

TMOLS-ITPOE2 is the best consecutive 30-minute stretch of music in DT history.

[Kotowboy]

TMOLS is good but drags like a bitch and ITPOE part 2 is just average compared to other DT songs .


I much prefer Sacrificed Sons - Octvarium.

[alirocker08]

Vacant is my favourite DT song.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

TMOLS is good but drags like a bitch and ITPOE part 2 is just average compared to other DT songs .


I much prefer Sacrificed Sons - Octvarium.

I love Octavarium, but SS is very ordinary and like someone else said earlier, the subject matter makes it hard to swallow for me at times. I'd probably take TBOT->TCOT over those two, actually.

Oh, controversy. It's fun.