Your Controversial Opinions on DT

Started by Lucidity, December 17, 2012, 07:28:25 PM

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1neeto

Quote from: kingshmegland on December 22, 2012, 01:50:27 PM
Quote from: 1neeto on December 22, 2012, 01:14:57 PM
Quote from: toro on December 22, 2012, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: 1neeto on December 21, 2012, 07:32:25 PM
Lots of trololol posts here so i'll contribute.
Quote from: 1neeto on December 21, 2012, 07:32:25 PM
Forsaken has the best lyrical content of any DT song. In fact, SC is a lyrical masterpiece.
DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.

Well, it is a Controversial Opinions thread afterall.

What's not epic about vampires and dark masters?  :lol

And your answer is       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti0H-bvMi3I

Great movie.  :lol :lol

ReaperKK

Catching up on this thread but I wanted to add this:

JP was a much more innovated and interesting guitar player pre-SDOIT. Pretty much when he signed with Ernie Ball I feel his work as a guitar player has been as good as his Ibanez days not saying the guitar had anything to do with it.

When I listen to "Bombay Vindaloo" and the extended "To Live Forever" jam I hear some amazing, creative guitar player. When I hear things like the extended Hollow Years solo or the BTL jam from Budokan I just hear shredding that is pretty forgettable. 

1neeto

Ok in all seriousness I truly believe that SC is a very under appreciated album. It has some fun to listen songs like TDEK and ITPOE is a great epic. POW though, ranks as my least favorite DT song ever, even worse than SDV from Awake.

Tunnel Vision

TDEN's instrumental section may be the best part of the song...It feels very 'fun' to me

The Presence of Frenemies

My least favorite thing about DT's music is when they do long instrumental sections that consist mostly of riffs. I wish they would have more songs where the instrumental sections consisted mostly of solos (either one solo, tradeoffs, or multiple solos throughout the song) then having one mammoth section that is 2/3 a bunch of "establishing riffs" and jamming. Like the first part of the TMOLS instrumental, or the first two minutes of The Reckoning, or all the TDEN stuff. It's not like it never works (a lot of the early stuff used it well), but since ToT I feel like it's become a tired formula to stretch songs out that tends to interrupt the flow of things. I know DT is known for being all jammy and proggy, and I'm as big a pusher of big song lengths as anyone on this forum, but I just wish the instrumental time was used more for playing off the pre-existing feel of a song than taking several minutes to establish a new feel and jam over it for no clear reason.

jsem

Quote from: Yoshi Yogurt on December 21, 2012, 05:39:35 PM
Strange deja vu is the best song on SFAM
Agreed.

Oh, and Razor's Edge is completely overrated. Full Circle is the best part of the 8vm the song.

Scorpion

I agree on the Razor's Edge part, but I actually prefer Intervals. It's a great climax to the song.

BlobVanDam

Ok, I think I've gathered up the courage to post my list. To keep some balance, I'm making sure to include both positive and negative opinions. I see I'm not the only person to arrange it this way. :tup
Disclaimer - Obviously these are just my opinions, but it's easier to write it this way, and it's what everyone else is doing anyway.

CONTROVERSIALLY NEGATIVE
WDADU is so amateurish and poorly written that I don't count it as a real DT album.
ADTOE is near the bottom of DT's discography, and has the worst mix/production of any DT album besides WDADU.
The last half hour of Awake drags the album down to one of DT's weakest, and Scarred is DT's worst song since WDADU (yep, worse than Lie, YNM, BMS, TAMP, JLMB, IWBY, NE etc)
LTL is the weakest song on IaW, due to its weak vocal melodies and phrasing. (Aside from those flaws, it is otherwise a great song)
I'm going to use the word weak again just to see if anybody's paying attention.
ACOS is overrated (but still a decent song), and Octavarium is the far superior epic, and much more musically cohesive.
OIALT is ruined by DS's poor playing and JLB's voice during that era (but both have managed to improve to excellent in more recent times :tup)
Kevin Moore was an average lyricist, and no better than anyone else in the band.

CONTROVERSIALLY POSITIVE
SC is a great album (even though I don't consider it one of DT's best by any means), and hugely underrated.
TDEN is a top 20 DT song, and has one of DT's best instrumental sections.
IAW's production is awesome, including the '80s triggered snare. ESPECIALLY the triggered snare!
FII is one of DT's best albums (4th for me just behind SDOIT/SFAM/IaW).
MP's harmonies (along with JP's) are one of the best features of modern DT albums that is sorely lacking on ADTOE (bring back more JP backing vocals dangit! And maybe JR too. This would be swell.)
A lot of DT's straight ahead metal songs like As I Am, TROAE, and CM, are top tier DT songs.
SDOIT is DT's best album in every regard, and the title track is a masterpiece, and DT's best long song.
TGP is a top 5 DT song (I rank it 1 or 2, but I'll be lenient and allow up to top 5 before I rage at you :biggrin:). I probably wouldn't have added this one if there weren't so many non-believers in this thread.
Vacant is DT's most emotional ballad.


Deal with it!

MrBoom_shack-a-lack

Quote from: BlobVanDam on December 23, 2012, 07:02:58 AM
IAW's production is awesome, including the '80s triggered snare. ESPECIALLY the triggered snare!
Ahh hellyeah!!  :metal We are now BBF Blob-san!

BlobVanDam

Great! Let's go listen to some Firehouse! :lol

MrBoom_shack-a-lack

Yes let's do dat! Baby, don't treat me baaaaaad! Kaffwwwwwwww!

BlobVanDam

I'm much more of a fan of Hold Your Fire.

:slayer: Whoooooaaaa we'll rock you tonight! We're gonna rock you tonight! :slayer:


Inspirational stuff.

King Postwhore

*Evil glare at BVD & MrBoom for the Firehouse reference*



At least use Dokken. :biggrin:
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

BlobVanDam

Quote from: kingshmegland on December 23, 2012, 07:45:23 AM
*Evil glare at BVD & MrBoom for the Firehouse reference*



At least use Dokken. :biggrin:

But Dokken wasn't produced by the same guy as IaW, so that doesn't work! :getoffmylawn:


Oh fine. :slayer: We're the dreeeeeeeeeeam warrioooooooors!

Kotowboy

QuoteRe: Your Controversial Opinions on DT

I love Mangini as a person and as a drummer - but his solos bore me to death.


I don't like listening to anything where it's primarily about technique rather than just playing a groove with some tasty fills...


In music college - i'd hear guitarists go " Oh that scale worked great over that altered chord ".

It just leaves me cold - i'd rather hear one note being played with 100% feel than some alternate scale simply because the theory behind it is interesting.

Rattlehead

I agree with the majority of Blob's opinions, except a few, most notably on TGP, which COULD be a top 5 song for me, but there is way too much fat that needs to be trimmed off  :lol In other words it drags on way too long and could benefit from being cleaned up a bit. It's somewhere in my top 20-25 though.

Also... in my opinion 8vm could've been a masterpiece but the full circle part is really weak and James' vocals are cringeworthy. But the rest of the song is awesome.

Sycsa

Quote from: Kotowboy on December 23, 2012, 08:04:30 AM
QuoteRe: Your Controversial Opinions on DT

I love Mangini as a person and as a drummer - but his solos bore me to death.


I don't like listening to anything where it's primarily about technique rather than just playing a groove with some tasty fills...


In music college - i'd hear guitarists go " Oh that scale worked great over that altered chord ".

It just leaves me cold - i'd rather hear one note being played with 100% feel than some alternate scale simply because the theory behind it is interesting.

Really? Because this is one of the most musical and interesting drum solos I've heard in a while. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvH1Y20cJ6M

King Postwhore

Quote from: BlobVanDam on December 23, 2012, 07:50:38 AM
Quote from: kingshmegland on December 23, 2012, 07:45:23 AM
*Evil glare at BVD & MrBoom for the Firehouse reference*



At least use Dokken. :biggrin:

But Dokken wasn't produced by the same guy as IaW, so that doesn't work! :getoffmylawn:


Oh fine. :slayer: We're the dreeeeeeeeeeam warrioooooooors!

Much better! :metal :lol

"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

MrBoom_shack-a-lack

Quote from: Kotowboy on December 23, 2012, 08:04:30 AM
QuoteRe: Your Controversial Opinions on DT

I love Mangini as a person and as a drummer - but his solos bore me to death.


I don't like listening to anything where it's primarily about technique rather than just playing a groove with some tasty fills...


In music college - i'd hear guitarists go " Oh that scale worked great over that altered chord ".

It just leaves me cold - i'd rather hear one note being played with 100% feel than some alternate scale simply because the theory behind it is interesting.
It's not always black and white, good players can incorporate brilliant technic and maintain 100% feel and musicality. Those are the ones i look up to, not just one of each. I will never look down on someone how has brilliant technic no matter what because you can't fake technical stuff even if it sounds a little ruff, it takes alot of practice. Musicality and virtuosity should always go hand and hand and are equally important even if you play the simplest form of music.

MoraWintersoul

Quote from: kingshmegland on December 23, 2012, 07:45:23 AM
*Evil glare at BVD & MrBoom for the Firehouse reference*
So I'm too late to say Reach for the skyyyy or I will shoot you down in a blink of an eyeeeee ? :biggrin:

BlobVanDam

Quote from: MoraWintersoul on December 23, 2012, 09:23:04 AM
Quote from: kingshmegland on December 23, 2012, 07:45:23 AM
*Evil glare at BVD & MrBoom for the Firehouse reference*
So I'm too late to say Reach for the skyyyy or I will shoot you down in a blink of an eyeeeee ? :biggrin:


MrBoom_shack-a-lack


wasteland

I foresee that the Milena reaction will be the 2013 DTF phenomenon.

Anyway, once again, clarify your quotes, dissipate my ignorance :D

BlobVanDam

Quote from: wasteland on December 23, 2012, 09:51:19 AM
I foresee that the Milena reaction will be the 2013 DTF phenomenon.

Wasn't it already the 2012 DTF phenomenon? :lol It's just so endlessly versatile!

Sketchy


The Presence of Frenemies

The triggered snare sounds kind of weird in spots on IAW (fast rolls in particular), but otherwise I totally agree. I love me some 80s production.

Cable

Quote from: The Presence of Frenemies on December 23, 2012, 12:58:43 PM
The triggered snare sounds kind of weird in spots on IAW (fast rolls in particular), but otherwise I totally agree. I love me some 80s production.


I love how the triggered snare sounds starting with the new riff @ 7:23 during Metropolis Pt. I. All live recordings  of the song make me frown during that riff section because the triggered snare adds fitting power during the riff.

And while on Metropolis Pt. I...
-Minus the live intro with the Score version, the WDADR version is superior to the Score version of Met pt.1.

Pols Voice

Quote from: BlobVanDam on December 23, 2012, 07:02:58 AM
IAW's production is awesome, including the '80s triggered snare. ESPECIALLY the triggered snare!
FII is one of DT's best albums (4th for me just behind SDOIT/SFAM/IaW).

Those are the only two things you said I agree with (except FII is 4th for me behind Awake/IAW/SFAM). :lol  I do think OIALT is hampered by LaBrie's performance, which isn't a controversial opinion, but Derek's playing is fine.

wasteland

Quote from: Pols Voice on December 23, 2012, 03:49:33 PM
Those are the only two things you said I agree with (except FII is 4th for me behind Awake/IAW/SFAM). :lol  I do think OIALT is hampered by LaBrie's performance, which isn't a controversial opinion, but Derek's playing is fine.

Oh, yeah, my controversial opinion is that OYALT is sung quite well, and that the vocal performance doesn't diminish the awesomeness of the record nor the amount of enjoyment on my part.

Kotowboy

Dunno how controversial this is but I think FII is better than SC.

New Millenium. Trial of Tears. Lines In The Sand. Hell's Kitchen.

All better than anything on SC.

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: Kotowboy on December 23, 2012, 04:04:20 PM
Dunno how controversial this is but I think FII is better than SC.

New Millenium. Trial of Tears. Lines In The Sand. Hell's Kitchen.

All better than anything on SC.

I don't think that's very controversial. I heavily disagree though.

The Presence of Frenemies

TMOLS-ITPOE2 is the best consecutive 30-minute stretch of music in DT history.

Kotowboy

TMOLS is good but drags like a bitch and ITPOE part 2 is just average compared to other DT songs .


I much prefer Sacrificed Sons - Octvarium.

alirocker08


The Presence of Frenemies

Quote from: Kotowboy on December 23, 2012, 04:16:04 PM
TMOLS is good but drags like a bitch and ITPOE part 2 is just average compared to other DT songs .


I much prefer Sacrificed Sons - Octvarium.

I love Octavarium, but SS is very ordinary and like someone else said earlier, the subject matter makes it hard to swallow for me at times. I'd probably take TBOT->TCOT over those two, actually.

Oh, controversy. It's fun.