Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 824451 times)

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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9625 on: July 23, 2019, 01:17:25 PM »
He knows.  He used it with some of his prior accounts before being banned previously.

Really? IP tracking's a bitch  :lol
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Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9626 on: July 28, 2019, 07:48:06 AM »
D/T may well be DT's equivalent to what Abacab was for Genesis in some ways (raw sounding and all that, written collectively with everyone in one room, you get the idea)
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Offline Duke59

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9627 on: July 29, 2019, 04:04:50 AM »
When I think about volume swells, the first thing that comes to mind is the intro to Xanadu by Rush.  The second thing that comes to mind is Cathedral by Van Halen.  Alex Lifeson uses a volume pedal on Xanadu, whereas Meniketti used the volume knob in the linked video.  I believe (but am not sure) that EVH also uses the knob on Cathedral.

Also Steve Hackett uses a particular volume swell style in his playing.

I.e. listen to "Hairless heart"  from Genesis or "The Steppes" from his solo career.

Offline Zook

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9628 on: July 30, 2019, 05:19:40 PM »
Damn it, Bosk! I really wanted to know his beef with the freemasonry in AROP.

Offline JayOctavarium

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9629 on: July 31, 2019, 10:00:46 AM »
Damn it, Bosk! I really wanted to know his beef with the freemasonry in AROP.

:rollin
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9630 on: August 01, 2019, 06:41:27 AM »
Damn it, Bosk! I really wanted to know his beef with the freemasonry in AROP.
Lol maybe he's the famous Dunford00!

This is a comment I found years ago on AROP:


Then he resurfaced on TLG:


Please don't think I'm weird for saving these, they just give me chuckles  :lol

Quote
Don't try to BS her about Kevin Moore facts, she will obscure quote you in the face.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9631 on: August 01, 2019, 06:52:54 AM »
I hope that guy doesn't vote and doesn't have kids.
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Offline Grizz

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9632 on: August 01, 2019, 03:36:33 PM »
God it's like MrDreamTheater2 got lead poisoning
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Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9633 on: August 27, 2019, 12:51:36 PM »
another one from me: Imagine James had been with DT from the beginning and had recorded WDADU with them already. That might have had a different outcome. (I say so because it is evidenced on WDADR that he nailed everything on the record and I personally like his take on these pieces a lot, even more so than the original versions)
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9634 on: August 27, 2019, 01:47:13 PM »
another one from me: Imagine James had been with DT from the beginning and had recorded WDADU with them already. That might have had a different outcome. (I say so because it is evidenced on WDADR that he nailed everything on the record and I personally like his take on these pieces a lot, even more so than the original versions)

I'm not sure that WDADRu (recorded in 2004) is evidence of anything as it relates to WDADU, but I don't think anyone would disagree that WDADU would have been better with a 26 year old James Labrie as the singer.

I don't think things would have turned out much differently, however, since the biggest problem was the lack of label support, and that probably wouldn't have changed just because Labrie was on board.  It might have resulted in I&W coming out a year or so earlier.
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Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9635 on: August 27, 2019, 02:26:24 PM »
another one from me: Imagine James had been with DT from the beginning and had recorded WDADU with them already. That might have had a different outcome. (I say so because it is evidenced on WDADR that he nailed everything on the record and I personally like his take on these pieces a lot, even more so than the original versions)

I'm not sure that WDADRu (recorded in 2004) is evidence of anything as it relates to WDADU, but I don't think anyone would disagree that WDADU would have been better with a 26 year old James Labrie as the singer.

I don't think things would have turned out much differently, however, since the biggest problem was the lack of label support, and that probably wouldn't have changed just because Labrie was on board.  It might have resulted in I&W coming out a year or so earlier.
yes, very true, but I meant musically speaking it might have been more impactful given how able he was back then (and still is today but differently from that particular time)
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9636 on: August 27, 2019, 03:36:16 PM »
another one from me: Imagine James had been with DT from the beginning and had recorded WDADU with them already. That might have had a different outcome. (I say so because it is evidenced on WDADR that he nailed everything on the record and I personally like his take on these pieces a lot, even more so than the original versions)

I'm not sure that WDADRu (recorded in 2004) is evidence of anything as it relates to WDADU, but I don't think anyone would disagree that WDADU would have been better with a 26 year old James Labrie as the singer.

I don't think things would have turned out much differently, however, since the biggest problem was the lack of label support, and that probably wouldn't have changed just because Labrie was on board.  It might have resulted in I&W coming out a year or so earlier.
yes, very true, but I meant musically speaking it might have been more impactful given how able he was back then (and still is today but differently from that particular time)

I guess I'm struggling to find something potentially "controversial" in that.
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Offline Volante99

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9637 on: August 27, 2019, 07:19:36 PM »
another one from me: Imagine James had been with DT from the beginning and had recorded WDADU with them already. That might have had a different outcome. (I say so because it is evidenced on WDADR that he nailed everything on the record and I personally like his take on these pieces a lot, even more so than the original versions)

Career-wise I don’t think it would have changed much for DT. WDaDU is a good album but it still sounds like a band in search of their identity. To be blunt, they sound like a band trying a bit too hard to be the next Fates Warning and/or Queensryche. Even if they had LaBrie, I just don’t think they were ready for prime time in ‘89. Images is when they stepped out of that shadow and showed the world exactly what DT was all about.

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9638 on: August 27, 2019, 09:15:58 PM »
As much as I love James's delivery on the older albums, Charlie is a perfectly fine singer. He had quite a unique sound compared to other prog bands in that scene. I don't see his presence on WD&DU as a detriment to the album at all.  :metal
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Online gzarruk

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9639 on: August 27, 2019, 09:41:38 PM »
As much as I love James's delivery on the older albums, Charlie is a perfectly fine singer. He had quite a unique sound compared to other prog bands in that scene. I don't see his presence on WD&DU as a detriment to the album at all.  :metal

I think Charlie did his best, and that was quite good tbh, I have no problem with his singing on WDADU, except maybe for THAT part on TKH...
Imo, he just gets the hate because James is so much better, that the contrast doesn't make Charlie look good.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9640 on: August 28, 2019, 08:14:21 AM »
I think of Charlie and James as two different kinds of good.  As MP said, James was better suited for what they wanted to do going forward.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9641 on: August 28, 2019, 09:18:41 AM »
As much as I love James's delivery on the older albums, Charlie is a perfectly fine singer. He had quite a unique sound compared to other prog bands in that scene. I don't see his presence on WD&DU as a detriment to the album at all.  :metal

I think Charlie did his best, and that was quite good tbh, I have no problem with his singing on WDADU, except maybe for THAT part on TKH...
Imo, he just gets the hate because James is so much better, that the contrast doesn't make Charlie look good.

Yeah, that's a good way of putting it.  I think there are two things that kept Charlie from shining on the album:
(1) He wasn't really a metal singer at that time; and
(2) The songs weren't written to play to his vocal strengths.

WDADRU is an interesting example, when he is singing next to James.  James does fine, but it definitely wasn't one of his best nights.  And by the time they got to the encore when Charlie came out, James' voice was obviously tired.  As a result, I think James sounds thin, and there are a few moments where he is a bit shrill.  Then you have Charlie's voice right up against James'.  And while Charlie clearly does not have the range and power that James has, his voice has a warmth and depth that James' doesn't.  And contrasted with James' more tired delivery at that point in the set, Charlie sounds better than he otherwise would have.  That isn't meant to be a knock against either singer.  To me, James clearly does a better job with all of those songs.  But we got to hear Charlie years later, doing only two songs when his voice was fresh, and he sounded pretty good.

Then you take Charlie on his solo albums.  He sounds really good on all of them, and there is a definite, marked improvement just over the course of those three albums from O1 to O3.  He was finding his voice and finding a way to sing metal that worked well for his voice, and the result was pretty good.  AND those songs and vocal melodies were written to showcase his voice, and not with his voice simply being an afterthought. 

To this day, I still don't like Charlie's voice on WDADU.  It doesn't work for me.  And the above are the reasons why.  But until he resurfaced on WDADRU and with his solo work, I assumed that I just didn't like his voice at all.  Hearing him with more experience in this genre and doing material that is better suited to him changed my mind.
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9642 on: August 28, 2019, 12:59:30 PM »
Yes, I distinctly remember certain parts at the end of WDADRU when Charlie actually sounded better than James and I knew exactly why.  It was nice to see and hear Charlie shine like that.   :tup
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Offline Evai

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9643 on: August 29, 2019, 12:13:45 PM »
He sounds better on WDADRU, but I don't think Charlie could've sung the high parts James was hitting and sound as good (Charlie sings up to an A4, James sings up to D5)
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Offline Herrick

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9644 on: August 31, 2019, 02:44:43 PM »
I like how Prime LaBrie sounds on the material from the first album more than Dominici.
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Offline 54_diplomats

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9645 on: September 02, 2019, 12:26:03 AM »
I don't think James sounds all that great on WDADR honestly. He did an amazing job singing WDADU songs in the early 90's for sure though, especially The Killing Hand. I really love Dominici's work in WDADU, he's a great singer.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9646 on: September 02, 2019, 01:01:07 AM »
I have no idea how at any point in the auditioning process prior to recording WD&DU (or whenever it was) everyone agreed "yeah, this guy Charlie is totally the right vocalist for the sound we are trying to achieve.."
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9647 on: September 02, 2019, 06:20:03 AM »
I have no idea how at any point in the auditioning process prior to recording WD&DU (or whenever it was) everyone agreed "yeah, this guy Charlie is totally the right vocalist for the sound we are trying to achieve.."

He came after Chris Collins, so the improvement was huge :lol
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Herrick

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9648 on: September 02, 2019, 08:32:36 AM »
I don't think James sounds all that great on WDADR honestly. He did an amazing job singing WDADU songs in the early 90's for sure though, especially The Killing Hand. I really love Dominici's work in WDADU, he's a great singer.

Oh yeah, nothing against Dominici. He didn't sound very good in the early live stuff I've heard but I like how he sounds on the album. And as Bosk pointed out, Dominici sounds damn good when he's singing within his range. I don't know why the DT leaders tried to get him to sing out of his range or normal style. I guess they were just young and excited when they thought they found the right mang for the job.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9649 on: September 02, 2019, 08:40:13 AM »
Well, at the time, Charlie was older and a little bit accomplished.

I think for WDADU itself, Charlie is fine. I don't have an issue with what it was.

I prefer WDADRu mainly because I like the continuity of one voice.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Herrick

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9650 on: September 02, 2019, 09:12:18 AM »
I prefer WDADRu mainly because I like the continuity of one voice.

What do you mean?
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9651 on: September 02, 2019, 09:14:12 AM »
Well, If I am listening to DT on shuffle, or making a mix tape, I don't like going back and forth between vocalists.



But to me, listening to DT means listening to James. If I want to hear The Killing Hand, I reach for WDADRu or LatM.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
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Offline Herrick

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9652 on: September 02, 2019, 09:18:27 AM »
Well, If I am listening to DT on shuffle, or making a mix tape, I don't like going back and forth between vocalists.



But to me, listening to DT means listening to James. If I want to hear The Killing Hand, I reach for WDADRu or LatM.

I get it now  :metal
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9653 on: September 02, 2019, 09:23:49 AM »
Yeah, and I'm not on the "Charlie sucks, the production sucks" bandwagon either. I think the album itself is excellent, and I usually judge albums by the songs. And I love the songs on WDADU.  :metal
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
You know that a mark of a great song is if TAC hates it with a special passion.

Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9654 on: September 02, 2019, 12:42:30 PM »
Yeah, and I'm not on the "Charlie sucks, the production sucks" bandwagon either. I think the album itself is excellent, and I usually judge albums by the songs. And I love the songs on WDADU.  :metal
me either
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Online gzarruk

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9655 on: September 02, 2019, 02:08:25 PM »
Yeah, and I'm not on the "Charlie sucks, the production sucks" bandwagon either. I think the album itself is excellent, and I usually judge albums by the songs. And I love the songs on WDADU.  :metal

This. The songwriting in WDADU is excellent, even though the production wasn’t too good.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9656 on: September 03, 2019, 04:27:17 PM »
But to me, listening to DT means listening to James. If I want to hear The Killing Hand, I reach for WDADRu or LatM.

The LaTM version rules!  :2metal:
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Offline PetFish

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9657 on: September 03, 2019, 06:50:47 PM »
But to me, listening to DT means listening to James. If I want to hear The Killing Hand, I reach for WDADRu or LatM.

The LaTM version rules!  :2metal:

My favourite live version of TKH is from the b-side of the Hollow Years single.

The instrumental section (7:50-END) with JP playing some slide with DS on the organ along with the unison of that familiar melody (don't know the name of the actual song) and JL's smooth vox is just so cool and and don't forget the blink-and-you'll-miss-it part where they play the riff from A Fortune In Lies behind the vocals instead of the as-recorded riff (5:43-5:59).

Offline LCArenas

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9658 on: September 06, 2019, 11:02:06 PM »
The Glass Prison hasn't aged well for me, at all. It was among my top 5 DT songs, now I consider it the weakest song on 6DoIT, and It's my second least favorite song of the Twelve Step Suite only beaten by The Shattered Fortress.

Maybe it's the DJ scratches and the chug-chug riffs in the middle part (They did take some influence from the Nu-Metal scene of the time, didn't they?) or too much Portnoy-backed vocals, or the fact that the vocal melodies aren't really memorable after the first four minutes, I don't know. Maybe it's in part because I feel it started the whole Trade-off solo wankfest that MP and JP wanted to include in all the DT long songs during the 00s. Now This specific tradeoff solo part is really great, and so are the majority of the ones that followed in that album; but it started the whole cliché of solo sections that ended up being so annoying in BC&SL.

Offline Herrick

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #9659 on: September 07, 2019, 12:51:57 AM »
The Glass Prison hasn't aged well for me, at all. It was among my top 5 DT songs, now I consider it the weakest song on 6DoIT, and It's my second least favorite song of the Twelve Step Suite only beaten by The Shattered Fortress.

Maybe it's the DJ scratches and the chug-chug riffs in the middle part (They did take some influence from the Nu-Metal scene of the time, didn't they?) or too much Portnoy-backed vocals, or the fact that the vocal melodies aren't really memorable after the first four minutes, I don't know. Maybe it's in part because I feel it started the whole Trade-off solo wankfest that MP and JP wanted to include in all the DT long songs during the 00s. Now This specific tradeoff solo part is really great, and so are the majority of the ones that followed in that album; but it started the whole cliché of solo sections that ended up being so annoying in BC&SL.

Kind of agree but it's not like I'm gonna skip The Wank.
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