Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Evai]

TMoLS is fantastic, the mood shift for the solo section is genius to me, and they bring it back perfectly.

I'm not a fan of the sampled female vocals at the end of TSCO live performances. Hearing a singer who isn't actually there ending the song cheapens it a little for me.

CONTROVERSIAL

[TheGreatPretender]

TMoLS is fantastic, the mood shift for the solo section is genius to me, and they bring it back perfectly.

Agreed. I love the song through and through. The lyrics aren't the best in the world, but they're not as terrible as some people say, and yeah, the ballad sections are some of the most beautiful melodies DT has ever written.

I'm not a fan of the sampled female vocals at the end of TSCO live performances. Hearing a singer who isn't actually there ending the song cheapens it a little for me.

CONTROVERSIAL

I don't think they're absolutely necessary, but they don't really bother me. I'd sooner see them drop spoken word samples on songs like 6:00 and Space-Dye Vest (not that I'd expect them to play Space-Dye Vest again).

[Cool Chris]

I'd sooner see them drop spoken word samples on songs like 6:00 and Space-Dye Vest (not that I'd expect them to play Space-Dye Vest again).

As they are part of the songs as recorded, I would rather they leave them in when played live. But bah gawd those 6:00 samples are annoying.

[gzarruk]

The instrumental section in TMoLS is still one of DT's best no matter how disjointed some people might think it is. 

It doesn't fit the song.  It's not brilliant if it doesn't work as a whole piece.  That section does not exist in a vacuum.

Or you could say that the boring rest of the song doesn't fit the brilliant instrumental section

[Evai]

I don't think they're absolutely necessary, but they don't really bother me. I'd sooner see them drop spoken word samples on songs like 6:00 and Space-Dye Vest (not that I'd expect them to play Space-Dye Vest again).

You just made me imagine Take The Time but with with no 'hold it now, wait a minute, come on, whew' 

[Cool Chris]

I don't think they're absolutely necessary, but they don't really bother me. I'd sooner see them drop spoken word samples on songs like 6:00 and Space-Dye Vest (not that I'd expect them to play Space-Dye Vest again).

You just made me imagine Take The Time but with with no 'hold it now, wait a minute, come on, whew' 

That sounds glorious.

[Max Kuehnau]

I don't think they're absolutely necessary, but they don't really bother me. I'd sooner see them drop spoken word samples on songs like 6:00 and Space-Dye Vest (not that I'd expect them to play Space-Dye Vest again).

You just made me imagine Take The Time but with with no 'hold it now, wait a minute, come on, whew' 

That sounds glorious.

Speaking of TTT, that piece would have fit much better on FII rather than I/W IMHO.

[gzarruk]

Controversial opinion: I'd like to see DT go through, at least, one more lineup change before they retire, just to shake things up a bit.

[Herrick]

Controversial opinion: I'd like to see DT go through, at least, one more lineup change before they retire, just to shake things up a bit.

Any preference on which band member?

[erwinrafael]

I don't think I can survive a lineup change involving JP, MM, or JM.

[MirrorMask]

To be brutally honest, Mike Mangini is the only "expandable" one, not because there's anything wrong with him - but merely from a perspective point, the band existed 25 years without him, another drummer will just do.

Of course I don't want him to go and I'd be sad to see it happen, especially now that he's finally fully integrated in the songwriting process, I'm just speaking hypothetically here.

The other four would be a huge blow. With JP mostly but also JR, you lose the songwriting core of DT, and in Petrucci's case, essentially the heart of it all. Take Petrucci out of DT, and what remains of DT is just the name. Myung as another founding member would be a huge blow, maybe the songwriting could survive but Myung is essentially tied to DT.

And James... say what you will about his live performances, he's the defining and ultimate voice of DT. DT = James singing. It's not a matter of being able or not, probably there's out there someone who could sing all the tunes - but after all this time, no one else would feel right. It would not just sound like DT, because James' voice is forever tied to the sound. Freddie Mercury reincarnated wouldn't feel right singing DT, and certainly not any other singer of the scene or an unknown talent found in a cover band. "Nobody" accepted Ripper in Judas Priest after all those years, and the guy could scream like a muthafaker. But he was not Halford. No one else is Halford but Rob Halford. No one else is the voice of DT but James.

[Bertielee]

To be brutally honest, Mike Mangini is the only "expandable" one, not because there's anything wrong with him - but merely from a perspective point, the band existed 25 years without him, another drummer will just do.

Of course I don't want him to go and I'd be sad to see it happen, especially now that he's finally fully integrated in the songwriting process, I'm just speaking hypothetically here.

The other four would be a huge blow. With JP mostly but also JR, you lose the songwriting core of DT, and in Petrucci's case, essentially the heart of it all. Take Petrucci out of DT, and what remains of DT is just the name. Myung as another founding member would be a huge blow, maybe the songwriting could survive but Myung is essentially tied to DT.

And James... say what you will about his live performances, he's the defining and ultimate voice of DT. DT = James singing. It's not a matter of being able or not, probably there's out there someone who could sing all the tunes - but after all this time, no one else would feel right. It would not just sound like DT, because James' voice is forever tied to the sound. Freddie Mercury reincarnated wouldn't feel right singing DT, and certainly not any other singer of the scene or an unknown talent found in a cover band. "Nobody" accepted Ripper in Judas Priest after all those years, and the guy could scream like a muthafaker. But he was not Halford. No one else is Halford but Rob Halford. No one else is the voice of DT but James.

Agreed with everything you said.

B.Lee

[Volante99]

To be brutally honest, Mike Mangini is the only "expandable" one, not because there's anything wrong with him - but merely from a perspective point, the band existed 25 years without him, another drummer will just do.

Of course I don't want him to go and I'd be sad to see it happen, especially now that he's finally fully integrated in the songwriting process, I'm just speaking hypothetically here.

The other four would be a huge blow. With JP mostly but also JR, you lose the songwriting core of DT, and in Petrucci's case, essentially the heart of it all. Take Petrucci out of DT, and what remains of DT is just the name. Myung as another founding member would be a huge blow, maybe the songwriting could survive but Myung is essentially tied to DT.

And James... say what you will about his live performances, he's the defining and ultimate voice of DT. DT = James singing. It's not a matter of being able or not, probably there's out there someone who could sing all the tunes - but after all this time, no one else would feel right. It would not just sound like DT, because James' voice is forever tied to the sound. Freddie Mercury reincarnated wouldn't feel right singing DT, and certainly not any other singer of the scene or an unknown talent found in a cover band. "Nobody" accepted Ripper in Judas Priest after all those years, and the guy could scream like a muthafaker. But he was not Halford. No one else is Halford but Rob Halford. No one else is the voice of DT but James.

Agreed with everything you said.

B.Lee

I would throw JR and JM in there as well.

We know DT can survive multiple keyboard changes (and still be in the same DT ballpark) and JM on bass, even as a founding member is certainly no more  "essential" than Portnoy was.

To me, JP and JLB are the thread that bind the whole thing together. Lose that and you lose the DT sound.

[bosk1]

To be brutally honest, Mike Mangini is the only "expandable" one

I never realized that, but I guess since he is the smallest member, that makes sense that he would be.  Do you know how big he can get?

[pg1067]

To be brutally honest, Mike Mangini is the only "expandable" one

I never realized that, but I guess since he is the smallest member, that makes sense that he would be.  Do you know how big he can get?

"Mike Mangini Expansion Pack® coming soon from Kenner!"

[Lethean]

To be brutally honest, Mike Mangini is the only "expandable" one

I never realized that, but I guess since he is the smallest member, that makes sense that he would be.  Do you know how big he can get?

[MirrorMask]

Just remember y'all that I'm italian and that I'm supposed to suck at english. 

[bosk1]

 

[hefdaddy42]

To be brutally honest, Mike Mangini is the only "expandable" one

I never realized that, but I guess since he is the smallest member, that makes sense that he would be.  Do you know how big he can get?

I love you so much.

[King Postwhore]

Just remember y'all that I'm italian and that I'm supposed to suck at english. 

Remember, I speak English and I probably would have done that as well.

[SeRoX]

I'm the best Engrish user here. Sorry, MirrorMask!

[gzarruk]

To be brutally honest, Mike Mangini is the only "expandable" one, not because there's anything wrong with him - but merely from a perspective point, the band existed 25 years without him, another drummer will just do.

Of course I don't want him to go and I'd be sad to see it happen, especially now that he's finally fully integrated in the songwriting process, I'm just speaking hypothetically here.

The other four would be a huge blow. With JP mostly but also JR, you lose the songwriting core of DT, and in Petrucci's case, essentially the heart of it all. Take Petrucci out of DT, and what remains of DT is just the name. Myung as another founding member would be a huge blow, maybe the songwriting could survive but Myung is essentially tied to DT.

And James... say what you will about his live performances, he's the defining and ultimate voice of DT. DT = James singing. It's not a matter of being able or not, probably there's out there someone who could sing all the tunes - but after all this time, no one else would feel right. It would not just sound like DT, because James' voice is forever tied to the sound. Freddie Mercury reincarnated wouldn't feel right singing DT, and certainly not any other singer of the scene or an unknown talent found in a cover band. "Nobody" accepted Ripper in Judas Priest after all those years, and the guy could scream like a muthafaker. But he was not Halford. No one else is Halford but Rob Halford. No one else is the voice of DT but James.

Agreed with everything you said.

B.Lee

I would throw JR and JM in there as well.

We know DT can survive multiple keyboard changes (and still be in the same DT ballpark) and JM on bass, even as a founding member is certainly no more  "essential" than Portnoy was.

To me, JP and JLB are the thread that bind the whole thing together. Lose that and you lose the DT sound.

I think DT could survive without any of the current members, except JP, there's just no replacing him.

James is THE voice of DT and he's been in the band for almost 30 years now, but I still think DT could work well with a new vocalist if he decided to retire or something. A band like Threshold, for example, has had 3 major singers through their career and the fans love each of them for many reasons, same case with Angra and Spock's Beard. It doesn't have to sound the same, in fact it shouldn't, and that was the point of my post, another lineup change could be good to shake things up. Not that I'm expecting it to happen anytime soon, btw.

[Lethean]

Threshold and Angra had singer changes very early in their careers. Threshold didn't have two albums with the same singer until albums 4 and 5. Angra was a little different, but in either case it wasn't this huge history. The most albums any Angra singer has been on is 4.  James has been on 13 albums and been with the band for over 25 years.  I'm not saying that it couldn't be done, but I certainly wouldn't even want to see them try.  (Of course I don't want to see any lineup changes at this point. I hope they keep this line up until they retire.)

[The Walrus]

People said there was no replacing MP, and yet... Hell, Eric Gillette is basically Young JP.

[Lethean]

Yeah.... And he'd do a great job in a DT tribute band. 

[gzarruk]

Yeah.... And he'd do a great job in a DT tribute band. 

You mean Mike Portnoy's Shattered Fortress?

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah.... And he'd do a great job in a DT tribute band. 

You mean Mike Portnoy's Shattered Fortress?

Yeah.  He already has!

[pg1067]

Controversial opinion: I'd like to see DT go through, at least, one more lineup change before they retire, just to shake things up a bit.

I think it's one thing to talk about how Member X leaving would affect the band, but to say that one would "like to see DT go through[] at least[] one more lineup change . . . just to shake things up a bit" is truly odd IMO.

I think DT could survive without any of the current members, except JP, there's just no replacing him.

James is THE voice of DT and he's been in the band for almost 30 years now, but I still think DT could work well with a new vocalist if he decided to retire or something. A band like Threshold, for example, has had 3 major singers through their career and the fans love each of them for many reasons, same case with Angra and Spock's Beard. It doesn't have to sound the same, in fact it shouldn't, and that was the point of my post, another lineup change could be good to shake things up. Not that I'm expecting it to happen anytime soon, btw.

I have virtually no idea who any of those other bands are, but I think the member whose loss would affect the band the most would be JLB.  He is the voice of Dream Theater, and I think lots of fans -- myself included -- would be very skeptical of a Dream Theater without JLB, and the only circumstance where I'd be receptive to a change of singers would be if JLB decided he physically couldn't do the job anymore and willingly stepped aside for someone else.

People said there was no replacing MP

If you'd asked me nine years ago who the most replaceable member of DT was, I'd have said MP 10 out of 10 times.  While I probably have a slight preference for MP's drumming over that of MM, MP brought little of value to me beyond his drumming.

At the current time, I'd say JM and MM are equally replaceable.  JP and, to a slightly lesser extent, JR are, as far as I know, responsible for 90% or so of songwriting.  Obviously, that number is just a guess, but I'd be surprised if it's far off.  But I don't want to see any lineup changes.

[Cool Chris]

If a band needs to change a member(s) to "shake things up" that band needs to call it quits.

If you'd asked me nine years ago who the most replaceable member of DT was, I'd have said MP 10 out of 10 times.  While I probably have a slight preference for MP's drumming over that of MM, MP brought little of value to me beyond his drumming.

I thought the complete opposite, as he was spearheading the DVD commentaries, ytsejam releases, etc... His behavior was getting a little off-putting and the vocals he contributed needed to stop. But neither were derailing my love for the band.

I agree with your JLB assessment. But then I think of both times I've seen Nightwish with Floor and been blown away. But then I think of the two Maiden albums with Blaze that just sound... not much like Maiden. So maybe sometimes it can work, and others it doesn't.

As long as we are on this morbid topic... would many people feel much differently about DT with a different bass player? Other than the fact that he has been with the band from the beginning, he isn't a main songwriter or lyricist, bass isn't as integral to DT's sound these days, he doesn't do much press, and brings little personality to the group. 

[pg1067]

I thought the complete opposite, as he was spearheading the DVD commentaries, ytsejam releases, etc... His behavior was getting a little off-putting and the vocals he contributed needed to stop. But neither were derailing my love for the band.

MP did a ton of stuff that a lot of folks found valuable.  I just wasn't one of those folks.

As long as we are on this morbid topic... would many people feel much differently about DT with a different bass player? Other than the fact that he has been with the band from the beginning, he isn't a main songwriter or lyricist, bass isn't as integral to DT's sound these days, he doesn't do much press, and brings little personality to the group.

I'd be bummed in principle, but I don't think it would noticeably change the band for the reasons you mentioned (hence my comment above that JM and MM are the most replaceable members of the band).

If a band needs to change a member(s) to "shake things up" that band needs to call it quits.

Yup.

[Volante99]

Very controversial opinion;

I'm kinda liking what I'm hearing on Jodan Rudess' new solo album, so far, more than (most of) D/T.

It's proggy, unpredictable, and weird. I dig it.

[Herrick]

As long as we are on this morbid topic... would many people feel much differently about DT with a different bass player? Other than the fact that he has been with the band from the beginning, he isn't a main songwriter or lyricist, bass isn't as integral to DT's sound these days, he doesn't do much press, and brings little personality to the group.

It would suck if Myung was no longer in the band but I'd still be a fan as long as they still write music I enjoy. Same thing if LaBrie left...as long as the singer sounds good with the band, I'd still listen to them.

[brents319]

Viper King is better than Octavarium.

Thanks for the laugh....and, I am not sure I disagree.  LOL.  I freakin love Viper King.

[ReaperKK]

Very controversial opinion;

I'm kinda liking what I'm hearing on Jodan Rudess' new solo album, so far, more than (most of) D/T.

It's proggy, unpredictable, and weird. I dig it.

I could never get into JR's solo stuff. The bit I checked out was beautiful melody followed by an endless flurry of notes.

[Herrick]

I could never get into Dream Theater's stuff. The bit I checked out was beautiful melody followed by an endless flurry of notes.