Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[kociol21]

My first post here so why not start with controversial opinions. I don't think I have many, but few album placements are different than most people's. I think that Awake is one their weakest albums and IaW is meh, I value it more as true start of their career than for it's music. The only really good song there is Metropolis. On the other hand I think BC&SL is their top 5 and still way better than anything they did post Portnoy. I'll pretend Wither doesn't exist here.

[SeRoX]

There is not a single word I could agree with you but welcome to the board anyway. 

But Awake is the best them 

[ReaperKK]

I used to think Awake was the best of them, but now it's some of the worst

[Max Kuehnau]

speaking of Awake, I like the production of the album, but that's the only thing I like on that album, apart from what James does most of the time.

[MirrorMask]

I used to think Awake was the best of them, I still do.

SFAM slightly > Awake slightly > Images and Words.

[Volante99]

I used to think Awake was the best of them, I still do.

SFAM slightly > Awake slightly > Images and Words.

I would agree with this. I think those 3 are without a doubt DT’s greatest achievements, but probably interchangeable depending on my mood.

As a guitar player, I feel Awake contains JP’s best playing. He was really on fire on that album.

[YOWspotter]

My controversial opinion revolves around JR. I think his playing should be more or less limited to "atmospheric" support. When he noodles around and/or takes the lead I generally get distracted and annoyed. I find the sound... childish. Like in PBD right after the awesome intro, from 1:48 to 2:03, his playing is so distracting from that great riffing and he's way too prominent in the mix. It ruins that part for me almost completely. Sorry.

[Volante99]

My controversial opinion revolves around JR. I think his playing should be more or less limited to "atmospheric" support. When he noodles around and/or takes the lead I generally get distracted and annoyed. I find the sound... childish. Like in PBD right after the awesome intro, from 1:48 to 2:03, his playing is so distracting from that great riffing and he's way too prominent in the mix. It ruins that part for me almost completely. Sorry.

I would agree, some of his leads (and sound choices), especially over heavy riffs, just don’t fit the vibe of the song. My theory is that he’s just not a HUGE metal fan and has a hard time doing appropriate accompaniment with JP. This maybe sacrilege but I feel Kevin Moore had some of the same issues back in the day but at least was a bit more tasteful in his sound choices.

[TheGreatPretender]

I would agree, some of his leads (and sound choices), especially over heavy riffs, just don’t fit the vibe of the song. My theory is that he’s just not a HUGE metal fan and has a hard time doing appropriate accompaniment with JP. This maybe sacrilege but I feel Kevin Moore had some of the same issues back in the day but at least was a bit more tasteful in his sound choices.

I hope you're not talking about Awake, because those were some of the worst sound choices I've ever heard. The beginning of Erotomania is grating to listen to because of those patches. And 6:00 and Caught In A Web were nothing to write home about either.

[Volante99]

I would agree, some of his leads (and sound choices), especially over heavy riffs, just don’t fit the vibe of the song. My theory is that he’s just not a HUGE metal fan and has a hard time doing appropriate accompaniment with JP. This maybe sacrilege but I feel Kevin Moore had some of the same issues back in the day but at least was a bit more tasteful in his sound choices.

I hope you're not talking about Awake, because those were some of the worst sound choices I've ever heard. The beginning of Erotomania is grating to listen to because of those patches. And 6:00 and Caught In A Web were nothing to write home about either.

Personally, I don’t mind the patches for 6:00 (I actually love that sound on the solo) or Caught in a Web. They are a bit dated if anything, but ALOT of that album sounds dated. I agree, though, Erotomania is not a good sound. Lie would probably be a better song if they had just removed most of the keys all together.

The question is, though, do you think JR would have done better patches? Ehhh I’m not sure...

[TheGreatPretender]

Personally, I don’t mind the patches for 6:00 (I actually love that sound on the solo) or Caught in a Web. They are a bit dated if anything, but ALOT of that album sounds dated. I agree, though, Erotomania is not a good sound. Lie would probably be a better song if they had just removed most of the keys all together.

The question is, though, do you think JR would have done better patches? Ehhh I’m not sure...

Well, the stuff that he uses when playing those songs live is much better. Granted, it probably has more to do with how it's recorded in that particular setting, but either way, it's more palatable, and sounds a bit softer and warmer generally when he plays it live, which makes those songs a lot more enjoyable for me.

I never had any issue's with JR's patches. Aside from maybe the occasional overuse of his "snarling pig" tone, but that's more an issue of the fact that he doubles the guitar, and I prefer hearing the distorted guitar tone as it is, on those chunky riffs.

[JusticeBringer]

Both Images and Scenes are bottom three albums.

[Herrick]

My controversial opinion revolves around JR. I think his playing should be more or less limited to "atmospheric" support. When he noodles around and/or takes the lead I generally get distracted and annoyed. I find the sound... childish. Like in PBD right after the awesome intro, from 1:48 to 2:03, his playing is so distracting from that great riffing and he's way too prominent in the mix. It ruins that part for me almost completely. Sorry.

I would agree, some of his leads (and sound choices), especially over heavy riffs, just don’t fit the vibe of the song. My theory is that he’s just not a HUGE metal fan and has a hard time doing appropriate accompaniment with JP. This maybe sacrilege but I feel Kevin Moore had some of the same issues back in the day but at least was a bit more tasteful in his sound choices.

I think some of the sounds Moore used were the epitome of lame keyboard sounds.

[Cool Chris]

Gave a cursory listen to all of DT's live albums today. Not taking the set list in to account, Live Scenes is by far the worst. It's not bad, it just sounds the worst. I can't explain it any better than that. And while the live performance makes for a cool DVD, is that stage really that tiny?

[ReaperKK]

I don't think Live Scenes is that bad as a live album. As a DVD it's terrible, who they hell thought those effects were good? I think for '99 those were terrible.

[King Postwhore]

Both Images and Scenes are bottom three albums.

Ooof.

[SeRoX]

Both Images and Scenes are bottom three albums.

I read your username as JustinBieber so it makes sense. 

[MirrorMask]

Both Images and Scenes are bottom three albums.

I read your username as JustinBieber so it makes sense. 

 

[Max Kuehnau]

Both Images and Scenes are bottom three albums.

I don't know if they're bottom three for me, but I'd have liked them quite a bit more if MM had played on them already (and TTT had been excluded. Such a strange song really IMHO). I've not listened to both of these for longer than MM is in the band.

[bosk1]

I don't think Live Scenes is that bad as a live album. As a DVD it's terrible...

If by "terrible," you mean "one of their best!" then I am in complete agreement with you. 

[erwinrafael]

Both Images and Scenes are bottom three albums.

I don't know if they're bottom three for me, but I'd have liked them quite a bit more if MM had played on them already (and TTT had been excluded. Such a strange song really IMHO). I've not listened to both of these for longer than MM is in the band.

Take The Time was my favorite song in the Imahes and Words set in their last tour. Mangini killed it in that song. It really is like I&W's equivalent to D/T's S2n.

[geeeemo]

I don’t understand the love for the Live Scenes DVD. I am a big fan of James - even have my pic on his Pirate Ship web site. But he is off key quite often and it just bugs me. From what I have listened to, it seems as he has aged, he has learned to manage that much better.  I would rather listen to Chaos in Motion - and do quite often on runs/bike rides.   Just my opinion. 

p.s. The “Live Scenes” I saw a few nights ago I enjoy much more!

[MirrorMask]

I haven't seen / heard Live Scenes in quite some time, but I remember a great performance from James. Did he hit all the high notes? absolutely not. Did he work around some of the most difficult passages? more than once. But I remember his tone was nice and warm and he gave a heartfelt performance, with many great moments (such as the vocalizing ad the end of Through Her Eyes, shivers) that made more than up for avoiding the high note of Learning to Live or not shouting all the way through Voices' second verse.

[gzarruk]

Live Scenes is very cool! I just wish they included the whole concert on the video/DVD and that they didn't use those ugly animations and MP's "SFAM movie" footage in the song videos. Other than that, it is a very good live album, I used to watch it all the time when I first discovered DT 10 years ago.

[bosk1]

I haven't seen / heard Live Scenes in quite some time, but I remember a great performance from James. Did he hit all the high notes? absolutely not. Did he work around some of the most difficult passages? more than once. But I remember his tone was nice and warm and he gave a heartfelt performance, with many great moments (such as the vocalizing ad the end of Through Her Eyes, shivers) that made more than up for avoiding the high note of Learning to Live or not shouting all the way through Voices' second verse.

That about sums it up for me.  Were there a few moments out of the entire 2 1/2 hour show where he was off key?  Yeah.  Those few isolated moments don't take anything away from what is otherwise a stellar performance.  If I chose to ding the entire show for those few moments, I don't think there are many rock/metal performance that I could give a high rating to.  I will say that I have always noticed that he is more shaking when the show first starts, and then he really gets going a few songs in when his voice warms up.  But that's not abnormal either.  Again, I'd have to practically give up going to concerts if that overly bothered me.  I've heard Russell Allen, Floor Jansen, and Simone Simons, to name a few, have rougher starts in what otherwise turned out to be pretty great overall performances.

[Chino]

I actually prefer the way JLB's voice sounds on the majority of LSFNY, especially on songs like Home and ACOS

[bosk1]

Yeah, that version of ACOS is far and away my favorite, and the vocals are a big reason why.

[gzarruk]

Yeah, that version of ACOS is far and away my favorite, and the vocals are a big reason why.

That version for ACOS is perfect, except for the weird themes they played in the middle of it (Jordan's ragtime/circus thing, JM's baseball theme and JP's Simpsons theme).

[MirrorMask]

Yeah, that version of ACOS is far and away my favorite, and the vocals are a big reason why.

That version for ACOS is perfect, except for the weird themes they played in the middle of it (Jordan's ragtime/circus thing, JM's baseball theme and JP's Simpsons theme).

That's just fine. It's live, it's supposed to be a show where you can also have some fun, and I applaud them for going wacky within one of their most acclaimed and "serious" songs.

It's in the studio where those things just shouldn't happen (see the circus break in Endless Sacrifice which is completely gratuitous).

[Chino]

Yeah, that version of ACOS is far and away my favorite, and the vocals are a big reason why.

That version for ACOS is perfect, except for the weird themes they played in the middle of it (Jordan's ragtime/circus thing, JM's baseball theme and JP's Simpsons theme).

That's one of favorites parts of the track 

[The Curious Orange]

Yeah, that version of ACOS is far and away my favorite, and the vocals are a big reason why.

That version for ACOS is perfect, except for the weird themes they played in the middle of it (Jordan's ragtime/circus thing, JM's baseball theme and JP's Simpsons theme).

I wish they'd do that sort of thing more often, the snippets of other songs on OIALT, rearranging songs, etc.

[geeeemo]

Well, since I never, not once, have had any agreement on my dislike of Live Scenes (said with much love to all), there is only one thing to do.

Listen Again!

I admit I never finished the DVD (although I started listening again a couple times and never got that far through it), and should remember my own advice about DT.  Give it a few spins!

[Cool Chris]

From what I have listened to, it seems as he has aged, he has learned to manage that much better. 

James' performance never bothered my while watching the DVD, nor did him not going after the crazy notes. It was only listening to the audio only that it seemed not awesome (while still being great). Yes it seems like he manages his performances better now. Back then it seemed like sometimes he was just not knowing what notes to try and hit, or just going for it and hoping for the best.

Live Scenes is very cool! I just wish they included the whole concert on the video/DVD and that they didn't use those ugly animations and MP's "SFAM movie" footage in the song videos. Other than that, it is a very good live album, I used to watch it all the time when I first discovered DT 10 years ago.

2002-ish was start of a good ~5 year run where my fandom of the band was at its zenith. And this DVD played a large part in that. The animations never bothered me but some of that movie footage was... egad, not great. I don't think it was "MP's movie though" didn't a third party do all the work on that?

[pg1067]

I don't think Live Scenes is that bad as a live album. As a DVD it's terrible...

If by "terrible," you mean "one of their best!" then I am in complete agreement with you. 

I was thinking the same thing.  I absolutely love the DVD (the commentary track pushes it from great to awesome).  I don't listen the album too often, but that's only because I don't listen to live albums very much.  In fact, I haven't bought any of DT's live albums since Budokan (although I have all of them on DVD).

I haven't seen / heard Live Scenes in quite some time, but I remember a great performance from James. Did he hit all the high notes? absolutely not. Did he work around some of the most difficult passages? more than once. But I remember his tone was nice and warm and he gave a heartfelt performance, with many great moments (such as the vocalizing ad the end of Through Her Eyes, shivers) that made more than up for avoiding the high note of Learning to Live or not shouting all the way through Voices' second verse.

Agree on all counts (except that I watched the DVD quite recently).  The energy of that show really came through.


This is probably the opposite of controversial, but I listened to Repentance all the way through -- probably for the first time in a decade -- this morning on my way into work.  It confirmed for me that there is virtually nothing redeeming about that song and that it is worthy of its place in my bottom 5 of DT songs.

[gzarruk]

Yeah, that version of ACOS is far and away my favorite, and the vocals are a big reason why.

That version for ACOS is perfect, except for the weird themes they played in the middle of it (Jordan's ragtime/circus thing, JM's baseball theme and JP's Simpsons theme).

That's just fine. It's live, it's supposed to be a show where you can also have some fun, and I applaud them for going wacky within one of their most acclaimed and "serious" songs.

It's in the studio where those things just shouldn't happen (see the circus break in Endless Sacrifice which is completely gratuitous).

I really like that part in Endless Sacrifice

I generally think that if you're going to change the studio version of the song while playing it live, it should be an improved version, and those parts in ACOS live don't sound like an improvement for me, they come out of nowhere and leave you feeling like "what the... just happened?" (not in a good way). But, yeah, opinions lol

2002-ish was start of a good ~5 year run where my fandom of the band was at its zenith. And this DVD played a large part in that. The animations never bothered me but some of that movie footage was... egad, not great. I don't think it was "MP's movie though" didn't a third party do all the work on that?

I think I read somewhere that MP directed it or something, but I have no idea, I wasn't a fan around that time (I was barely 5 years old ).

This is probably the opposite of controversial, but I listened to Repentance all the way through -- probably for the first time in a decade -- this morning on my way into work. It confirmed for me that there is virtually nothing redeeming about that song and that it is worthy of its place in my bottom 5 of DT songs.

The guitar solo.