Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[KevShmev]

And let's not forget that the mediocre footage they used for Metropolis barely included Myung playing his bad-ass tapping spot.

All this while the Japanese Awake tour show, excerpts from which they *did* include, featured a perfectly filmed complete performance of the piece.

Don't even get me started. I still can't believe Myung is barely shown in Through Her Eyes in the Live Scenes DVD.  His fretless bass work in that song is so bad ass.  That was epic fail in the editing department.

[WheyWaffles]

Controversial opinion:

The main thing that needs to change with regard to DT's vocal situation: the lyrics coming out of James' mouth. After two musically unappealing-to-me albums, I'm finding a lot to like on this one, but my god, the lyrics... I'm fine with lyrics I can't take seriously. They can be dumb, but they have to be fun as well so I can play along. No one likes dumb and boring lyrics.

[jakepriest]

I don't think DT has ever had very good lyrics.
Good thing I don't care about lyrics at all. 

[erwinrafael]

Controversial opinion:

The main thing that needs to change with regard to DT's vocal situation: the lyrics coming out of James' mouth. After two musically unappealing-to-me albums, I'm finding a lot to like on this one, but my god, the lyrics... I'm fine with lyrics I can't take seriously. They can be dumb, but they have to be fun as well so I can play along. No one likes dumb and boring lyrics.

What is dumb about AWE's lyrics?

[bosk1]

Or ANY of the lyrics on d/t, for that matter.

[Bertielee]

Or ANY of the lyrics on d/t, for that matter.

Yeah, was wondering that as well. Dumb lyrics on D/T? No way!

B.Lee

[PetFish]

Even worse was the decision to put Metropolis on the 5 Years in a Livetime video release and then cut if off right before the ending.  Yeah, give us almost all of the song and then cut it off before the end.  That made no sense whatsoever. 

Remember, MP had SERIOUS time constraints when putting the old home videos together to the point of having to cut out literally 10 seconds here and 10 seconds there.

[Kyo]

Even worse was the decision to put Metropolis on the 5 Years in a Livetime video release and then cut if off right before the ending.  Yeah, give us almost all of the song and then cut it off before the end.  That made no sense whatsoever. 

Remember, MP had SERIOUS time constraints when putting the old home videos together to the point of having to cut out literally 10 seconds here and 10 seconds there.

Yeah, but come on! It was bad enough that Metropolis and Learning to Live were not included on the Live in Tokyo VHS at the time. Five years later their classic status was firmly established and they deserved better than just having incomplete performances included on the next home video. And with LTL it was even worse as we only got a 4-minute excerpt. At least LTL got included in the LSFNY DVD not much later, but with Metropolis this bootleg-quality truncated version remained the only official video release until Score almost a decade later.

And if you're dealing with time constraints, does Burning My Soul really deserve more time than these two? Does an acoustic rendition of a never commercially released song like Cover My Eyes? I never understood those priorities.

[MirrorMask]

Remember that the live VHS / DVD was a companion to the live CD. Burning My Soul was not on the live album and neither was Cover My Eyes. So probably that was the reasoning for keeping them, giving some diversity and more value to the two products.

Also, wasn't Metropolis and Learning to Live parts anyway of the encore medley that finished into The Crimson Sunset? it's not that MP cut them (as he did with Voices for example), they were already performed in a truncated way for that tour.

[Kyo]

Remember that the live VHS / DVD was a companion to the live CD. Burning My Soul was not on the live album and neither was Cover My Eyes. So probably that was the reasoning for keeping them, giving some diversity and more value to the two products.

Yeah, but adding diversity could've been done by shuffling around other songs without sacrificing two major classics for much weaker material.

Also, wasn't Metropolis and Learning to Live parts anyway of the encore medley that finished into The Crimson Sunset? it's not that MP cut them (as he did with Voices for example), they were already performed in a truncated way for that tour.

Sure, but that's just a reason why medleys are bad and why he should've picked material from other gigs. Sometimes it's better to do a limited number of things right than to try to cram as many things as possible in two hours.

[erciccio]

Controversial opinion:

The main thing that needs to change with regard to DT's vocal situation: the lyrics coming out of James' mouth. After two musically unappealing-to-me albums, I'm finding a lot to like on this one, but my god, the lyrics... I'm fine with lyrics I can't take seriously. They can be dumb, but they have to be fun as well so I can play along. No one likes dumb and boring lyrics.

Dumb?
Are you talking about D/T or BC&SL?

[KevShmev]

Also, wasn't Metropolis and Learning to Live parts anyway of the encore medley that finished into The Crimson Sunset? it's not that MP cut them (as he did with Voices for example), they were already performed in a truncated way for that tour.

I don't believe Metropolis was. The part on the video was from an outdoor show and the entire song was played except the last minute and a half or so.

Yeah, but come on! It was bad enough that Metropolis and Learning to Live were not included on the Live in Tokyo VHS at the time. Five years later their classic status was firmly established and they deserved better than just having incomplete performances included on the next home video. And with LTL it was even worse as we only got a 4-minute excerpt. At least LTL got included in the LSFNY DVD not much later, but with Metropolis this bootleg-quality truncated version remained the only official video release until Score almost a decade later.

And if you're dealing with time constraints, does Burning My Soul really deserve more time than these two? Does an acoustic rendition of a never commercially released song like Cover My Eyes? I never understood those priorities.

All fair points, but I will not quibble with the inclusion of Cover My Eyes, since I had never heard that song before, and loved it immediately. I was like a kid in a candy store, getting an unexpected new (to me) song.

[lucidlydreaming]

Cover My Eyes was one of my early favorites on the OIALT video. 

[Nachtmerrie]

ADToE is my #1 album and I love FII.  I would play both before I&W.

ADToE could have been a top 5 album for me with a better mix/production. BAI is one of my favorite DT-songs but the live-version has so much more power.

It would love a remastered version. Maybe the 'Fascination Street' treatment' by Inside Out . So far I haven't heard a bad sounding album by Jens Bogren.

[jakepriest]

ADTOE has the best production possible for DT's style of music.

Come at me.

[KevShmev]

ADTOE has the best production possible for DT's style of music.

Come at me.

Dry and muddy is the best production possible for DT's music? 

Interesting.

[CirclesSquared]

Or ANY of the lyrics on d/t, for that matter.

Yeah, was wondering that as well. Dumb lyrics on D/T? No way!

B.Lee

Agreed. Dumb lyrics syndrome peaked with SC and BC&SL.

[jakepriest]

ADTOE has the best production possible for DT's style of music.

Come at me.

Dry and muddy is the best production possible for DT's music? 

Interesting.

I like the dry mix for the songs that are on ADTOE. Wouldn't work that well on Systematic Chaos I guess.
I'd never describe the mix as muddy tho, I can hear every instrument perfectly and it's pretty crisp.

[KevShmev]

ADTOE has the best production possible for DT's style of music.

Come at me.

Dry and muddy is the best production possible for DT's music? 

Interesting.

I like the dry mix for the songs that are on ADTOE. Wouldn't work that well on Systematic Chaos I guess.
I'd never describe the mix as muddy tho, I can hear every instrument perfectly and it's pretty crisp.

I think it gets muddy during the most rocking parts.  I can still hear everything, but it's just not as clear as it should be. Call it murky, if you will.

[Cool Chris]

S2N and Room 137 are the worst songs on DoT, and toward the bottom of the songs from the past 4 albums.

I say this generally liking this album and the "Mangini era."

[PetFish]

And if you're dealing with time constraints, does Burning My Soul really deserve more time than these two? Does an acoustic rendition of a never commercially released song like Cover My Eyes? I never understood those priorities.

Yes, they do deserve more time.  I'll take a never-released live/acoustic/rare version over something that already has a million versions available.

[Kyo]

Yes, they do deserve more time.  I'll take a never-released live/acoustic/rare version over something that already has a million versions available.

This is 1998 we're talking about. There weren't a million versions of Metropolis available on video at the time - there weren't *any*, actually. And LTL hadn't even been on a live CD before.

[Kyo]

Most of my DT listening these days is limited to the Mangini era. Not sure if that qualifies as an "opinion", but it might be seen as controversial, right? 

Sure, I still hold my big personal favorites I&W, SfaM and Six Degrees in high regard, but I've played those albums to death at the time. The new stuff may not reach quite as spectacular peaks musically, but the low points have also become far less problematic than they were in the years before. The albums seem more consistent both stylistically and quality-wise and the songs are usually more coherent and concise. And while I do think Mangini sounds a bit uninvolved and stiff here and there (though considerably less so on the new one!), he has his strong moments as well and his drum parts just sound a lot fresher overall. While his fills may not be as memorable as Portnoy's were, the upside of it all is that his playing has remained largely unpredictable to me, which I see as a very good thing for someone who has by now recorded over 60 songs (5.5 hours of material) with the band.

[rumborak]

Barstool Warrior is a great song, but that last verse seriously mars the ending IMO.

[SeRoX]

Barstool Warrior is a great song, but that last verse seriously mars the ending IMO.

It's so Losing Time / Grand Finale

[WilliamMunny]

I figured I'd post this here, because after reading these boards over the past few weeks, I now realize that I am in the vast minority here - which, quite honestly, bums me out.

I was so, so excited for this album. But after about fifteen listens, I think it's time to admit defeat here. D/T does absolutely nothing for me. It is definitely going to go to the very bottom of the pile.

I LOVED DTOE, I liked DT12, I am still attempting to understand TA (although, the 12 song playlist I made from it is very enjoyable when I'm in the mood), but this new record is just an abysmal mess. The production/mastering is downright offensive to my ears. And there is nothing here for me to come back to.

I could post a long list of gripes, but the rest of you are obviously digging it and I see no need to rain on anyone's parade.

I'm sure I'll come back and try again in a few months, but I suspect that this is not going to be a grower.

I was very lukewarm on TA, but after hearing D/T, I find myself enjoying that record a ton more.

The band made a great album, just not the album for me. Oh well.

So there you go, that's my controversial opinion

[erciccio]

I figured I'd post this here, because after reading these boards over the past few weeks, I now realize that I am in the vast minority here - which, quite honestly, bums me out.

I was so, so excited for this album. But after about fifteen listens, I think it's time to admit defeat here. D/T does absolutely nothing for me. It is definitely going to go to the very bottom of the pile.

I LOVED DTOE, I liked DT12, I am still attempting to understand TA (although, the 12 song playlist I made from it is very enjoyable when I'm in the mood), but this new record is just an abysmal mess. The production/mastering is downright offensive to my ears. And there is nothing here for me to come back to.

I could post a long list of gripes, but the rest of you are obviously digging it and I see no need to rain on anyone's parade.

I'm sure I'll come back and try again in a few months, but I suspect that this is not going to be a grower.

I was very lukewarm on TA, but after hearing D/T, I find myself enjoying that record a ton more.

The band made a great album, just not the album for me. Oh well.

So there you go, that's my controversial opinion

This is indeed controversial, but fair...and expressed in a fair way as well
Quite unusual in the Internet age, so appreciated..

I am also lukewarm about D/T, but there are many things I like so I am not as negative as you...

[SeRoX]

...

So there you go, that's my controversial opinion

I actually wanna know what's your disappoinment about DoT?

[PetFish]

Yes, they do deserve more time.  I'll take a never-released live/acoustic/rare version over something that already has a million versions available.

This is 1998 we're talking about. There weren't a million versions of Metropolis available on video at the time - there weren't *any*, actually. And LTL hadn't even been on a live CD before.

Just admit you hate "Cover My Eyes" and "Burning My Soul".  Would you be this mad if they cut out the ending jam on "To Live Forever" or removed "Anna Lee" or the acoustic "Speak To Me"?  Personally, I don't care for any of the "bar" stuff they included with the special guests, but I'm not mad about it, I'm happy they have a few once-in-a-lifetime and/or rare things they can include for other DT fans.

So what if they dropped the last 90 seconds of Metro1 in order to help include other unique things on a now-dead time-restricted home video format.

[Demolition]

I figured I'd post this here, because after reading these boards over the past few weeks, I now realize that I am in the vast minority here - which, quite honestly, bums me out.

I was so, so excited for this album. But after about fifteen listens, I think it's time to admit defeat here. D/T does absolutely nothing for me. It is definitely going to go to the very bottom of the pile.

I LOVED DTOE, I liked DT12, I am still attempting to understand TA (although, the 12 song playlist I made from it is very enjoyable when I'm in the mood), but this new record is just an abysmal mess. The production/mastering is downright offensive to my ears. And there is nothing here for me to come back to.

I could post a long list of gripes, but the rest of you are obviously digging it and I see no need to rain on anyone's parade.

I'm sure I'll come back and try again in a few months, but I suspect that this is not going to be a grower.

I was very lukewarm on TA, but after hearing D/T, I find myself enjoying that record a ton more.

The band made a great album, just not the album for me. Oh well.

So there you go, that's my controversial opinion

I happen to fully agree with you so far.  Nothing sticks out in my mind either.  When I listen to the disc, I like a lot of the songs but they just don't stick in my mind after they are over.  I don't know what it is but something is missing for my taste. 

[romdrums]

Viper King is better than Octavarium.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Viper King is better than Octavarium.

I like Viper King...but that statement is definitely controversial.

[Kyo]

Just admit you hate "Cover My Eyes" and "Burning My Soul". 

I actually like Cover My Eyes quite a bit. Burning My Soul, on the other hand, is generally seen as one of their worst songs not just by me and the Bataclan footage isn't exactly great visually, either.

Would you be this mad if they cut out the ending jam on "To Live Forever" or removed "Anna Lee" or the acoustic "Speak To Me"?

No, because none of those are anywhere close to the mega classic status of Metropolis - which has been my point from the start. And To Live Forever, which was just a B-side to start with, had already been on the previous home video release, so this was particularly puzzling given the lack of time for other things.
 

So what if they dropped the last 90 seconds of Metro1 in order to help include other unique things on a now-dead time-restricted home video format.

Again, you're missing the point. This is a huge classic from their classic era we're talking about. That stuff should've been better documented *at the time*. And it's not about specific home video formats, it's so it remains available to people in the future. Until 2006 there was no good way for a fan to see the Metropolis bass tapping section on video, one of the prime Myung moments in their discography, because Portnoy chose poor bootleg footage of the song over a professional recording. It's not just about the last 90 seconds.

[erciccio]

Here is another one from me.

The Astonishing is MUCH better than D/T.

I think it's better on almost all dimensions: songwriting, production, melodies, choruses, solos, innovation,...
In terms of individual performances:

- James: TA >>> D/T
- Jordan: TA >>> D/T
- JM: TA > D/T
- JP: TA= D/T
- MM: TA < D/T (but still his performance in TA is VERY good)

The only other thing I prefer in D/T are the lyrics, but this is an unfair comparison...

I don't think D/T is a bad album at all, and I understand that they moved back to the "safe path" in order to win back the fans disappointed by TA, but I really hope that in the future they will be willing to take same risk again.

I really cannot understand why there was some much "hate" for TA...IMHO, if they had replaced the 3-4 "Dungeons and Dragons" naiveties with 4-5 minutes a-la- Pale Blue Dot The Astonishing could have equaled Images.

[Architeuthis]

The Astonishing will always be one of my favorite DT albums!