Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[TAC]

ADTOE is in my Top 5. I think it's amazing.

[Herrick]

ADTOE is in my Top 5. I think it's amazing.

Same here. Here is the order of Herrick's Top 5:

1: Images & Words
2: Metropolis Part II: Scenes From A Memory
3: Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
4: Awake
5: A Dramatic Turn of Events

Awake would rank higher up but the last 4 tracks are pretty meh except for Space-Dye Vest.

[TAC]

Swap 6 D's with WDADRu and we have the same Top 5 pretty much.

[cygnusx1jg]

ADTOE is in my Top 5. I think it's amazing.

Same here. Here is the order of Herrick's Top 5:

1: Images & Words
2: Metropolis Part II: Scenes From A Memory
3: Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
4: Awake
5: A Dramatic Turn of Events

Awake would rank higher up but the last 4 tracks are pretty meh except for Space-Dye Vest.

I must highly disagree that Scarred is "meh". (I'm a 51 year old man and I just typed the word meh. Hell, I did it again! I'm very ashamed.)

[TAC]

Scarred is my #3 DT song. And I'm 50!

[PetFish]

The thing I love most about Scarred, Innocence Faded, etc is the outro is like a whole 'nother song.

They feel like they could go off on their own and be their own song entirely but they don't and that's also part of their charm.

[TAC]

Yeah, I don't disagree with that at all.

[jakepriest]

The thing I love most about Scarred, Innocence Faded, etc is the outro is like a whole 'nother song.

Imo the outros are the things that ruin Scarred and Innocence Faded.

[Architeuthis]

The thing I love most about Scarred, Innocence Faded, etc is the outro is like a whole 'nother song.

Imo the outros are the things that ruin Scarred and Innocence Faded.

Wow, those are some of the best outros I've ever heard and make the songs that much better!

[erciccio]

The thing I love most about Scarred, Innocence Faded, etc is the outro is like a whole 'nother song.

Imo the outros are the things that ruin Scarred and Innocence Faded.

Well, your opinion in this case it's not just controversial...it's WRONG!   

In particular Innocence Faded outro solo is majestic!

________________________________________________________________________________________________


Well, here is mine...

The Glass Prison is one of the worst Dream theater songs.
To be more precise, the first 3 minutes are absolutely fantastic, but the remaining 10 are a total pain.

And, more broadly, the whole 12-steps saga is the worst "concept" ever written and performed by DT, and contains many of the worst moments in their discography.

[rumborak]

The Glass Prison is one of the worst Dream theater songs.
To be more precise, the first 3 minutes are absolutely fantastic, but the remaining 10 are a total pain.

Back in the day when we played the song in my DT tribute band, we cut the last part by a good amount. It was just chugga-chugga and we started to get lost (and tired) because it was so repetitive.

[Herrick]

I must highly disagree that Scarred is "meh". (I'm a 51 year old man and I just typed the word meh. Hell, I did it again! I'm very ashamed.)

Now I'm trying to remember which one is Scarred. One of those last few songs has that really cheezy tropical 80s feel to it.

[pg1067]

The thing I love most about Scarred, Innocence Faded, etc is the outro is like a whole 'nother song.

Imo the outros are the things that ruin Scarred and Innocence Faded.

Well, your opinion in this case it's not just controversial...it's WRONG!   

In particular Innocence Faded outro solo is majestic!

________________________________________________________________________________________________


Well, here is mine...

The Glass Prison is one of the worst Dream theater songs.
To be more precise, the first 3 minutes are absolutely fantastic, but the remaining 10 are a total pain.

And, more broadly, the whole 12-steps saga is the worst "concept" ever written and performed by DT, and contains many of the worst moments in their discography.

"Innocence Faded" is just not a good song.  Bottom 10 and probably bottom 5 DT song for me.  "Scarred," on the other hand is easily a top 10 song.

"The Glass Prison" -- neither top nor bottom of the barrel for me.  When I first got SDOIT, I didn't care much for disc 1 and spent almost all my listening time with disc 2.  It took several years for me to start enjoying any of the disc 1 material.  I like TGP.  I really like "Misunderstood."  "Blind Faith" has risen up to a top 10 DT song.

As far as the 12SS as a whole, I like TGP and TSF.  TROAE is pretty good too.  TDS is meh, and "Repentance" is bad.  Is it "the worst 'concept' ever written and performed by DT"?  I don't know.  I suppose it depends on what you define as a "concept."  It certainly doesn't compare to SFAM, but I'd say I like it better than The Astonishing.  What else are we comparing?

[rab7]

Now I'm trying to remember which one is Scarred. One of those last few songs has that really cheezy tropical 80s feel to it.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Take Away My Pain from FII?

[Herrick]

Now I'm trying to remember which one is Scarred. One of those last few songs has that really cheezy tropical 80s feel to it.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Take Away My Pain from FII?

Nah it's one of the last few songs from Awake. I'm probably giving a poor description of what I dislike about the song. I think I am thinking of Lifting Shadows Off a Dream.

[cygnusx1jg]

Any part of any song that sounds similar to my favorite band Rush (DT is 2nd) is fine with me. To me, the outro of Scarred reminded me of the three men of Willowdale so much.

[Trav86]

I realize music is subjective, but someone saying that Innocence Faded is just not a good song or having to defend the outro of Scarred... it boggles my mind.

[pg1067]

Any part of any song that sounds similar to my favorite band Rush (DT is 2nd) is fine with me. To me, the outro of Scarred reminded me of the three men of Willowdale so much.

Interesting.  I LOVE the outro of Scarred, but I don't think it sounds at all like Rush.

[Samsara]

Any part of any song that sounds similar to my favorite band Rush (DT is 2nd) is fine with me. To me, the outro of Scarred reminded me of the three men of Willowdale so much.

Interesting.  I LOVE the outro of Scarred, but I don't think it sounds at all like Rush.

Same here.

[Herrick]

As far as the 12SS as a whole, I like TGP and TSF.  TROAE is pretty good too.  TDS is meh, and "Repentance" is bad.  Is it "the worst 'concept' ever written and performed by DT"?  I don't know.  I suppose it depends on what you define as a "concept."  It certainly doesn't compare to SFAM, but I'd say I like it better than The Astonishing.  What else are we comparing?

Is Repentance the one with that hilarious deep voice talking? What the fuck is up with that? And whose voice is it? I can't listen to that song without thinking of that old video where Petrucci is showing his gear and a guy is doing a voice-over with a funny deep voice "Yes I am your god". "My Mesa Boogie cabs were made by a guy called Ghandi...in India..." 

[Setlist Scotty]

Herrick can't listen to that song without thinking of that old video where Petrucci is showing his gear and a guy is doing a voice-over with a funny deep voice "Yes I am your god". "My Mesa Boogie cabs were made by a guy called Ghandi...in India..." 

FTFY! You're slipping, Mr. third person!   

[Herrick]

Herrick can't listen to that song without thinking of that old video where Petrucci is showing his gear and a guy is doing a voice-over with a funny deep voice "Yes I am your god". "My Mesa Boogie cabs were made by a guy called Ghandi...in India..." 

FTFY! You're slipping, Mr. third person!   

Awww you remembered 

[erciccio]

As far as the 12SS as a whole, I like TGP and TSF.  TROAE is pretty good too.  TDS is meh, and "Repentance" is bad.  Is it "the worst 'concept' ever written and performed by DT"?  I don't know.  I suppose it depends on what you define as a "concept."  It certainly doesn't compare to SFAM, but I'd say I like it better than The Astonishing.  What else are we comparing?

The "concepts" in my definition are sets of >1 songs linked by a common theme.

So:
SFAM
SDOIT disc 2
12SS
The Astonishing
(In the Presence of enemies)
( Wait for sleep + Learning to Live)

The last 2 being more a single song split in 2, but they fit my definition

Anyway, the 12SS IMHO ranks very very low, and I am super glad I never had to listen to it in its entirety live..

[bosk1]

Well, your definition does not fit your examples, but at least we now know what we are comparing. 

I dunno.  I can't say it is the "worst" concept DT has done.  I have a tough time applying a "worst" label to anything DT has done.  But despite a few weaker songs, the concept as a whole is pretty cool, IMO, and pretty creative. 

[TAC]

Yes, the "concept" of the 12SS is great.

[pg1067]

As far as the 12SS as a whole, I like TGP and TSF.  TROAE is pretty good too.  TDS is meh, and "Repentance" is bad.  Is it "the worst 'concept' ever written and performed by DT"?  I don't know.  I suppose it depends on what you define as a "concept."  It certainly doesn't compare to SFAM, but I'd say I like it better than The Astonishing.  What else are we comparing?

The "concepts" in my definition are sets of >1 songs linked by a common theme.

So:
SFAM
SDOIT disc 2
12SS
The Astonishing
(In the Presence of enemies)
( Wait for sleep + Learning to Live)

The last 2 being more a single song split in 2, but they fit my definition

Anyway, the 12SS IMHO ranks very very low, and I am super glad I never had to listen to it in its entirety live..

Ok...

Technically, SDOIT (the song) is a single song and, as you noted, ITPOE is a single song that is split in two, but I'll go with you on both.  I think "A Mind Beside Itself" also fits.  Ranking those you mentioned and AMBI, I'd go with the following:

SFAM
SDOIT
WFS/LTL (I'm not sure there is a lyrical connection, and I don't agree that this is a single song split into two)
AMBI
12SS
ITPOE
TA (I generally don't include TA in rankings because I don't feel I've given the album a full and fair shake, but this is where it sits presently).

And I agree that the "concept" behind the 12SS is good and might be better than the "concept" behind SDOIT.

[lucidlydreaming]

Ministry of Lost Souls instrumental section needs to be cut out.  Is there a version without it? 

[ReaPsTA]

Scarred is my #3 DT song. And I'm 50!

How is this controversial???

Ministry of Lost Souls instrumental section needs to be cut out.  Is there a version without it? 

Sees that lucidlydreaming's post counter is at 1

Coming out swinging!

[PetFish]

Ministry of Lost Souls instrumental section needs to be cut out.  Is there a version without it?

Just make your own edit with any basic audio editor.  I made my own version without the LOUDINTROINMYFACECRAPMYPANTS but kept the instrumental part cuz I like it.

[MirrorMask]

The loud intro is awesome, especially if you put it after a song with a dramatic ending, such as example As I Am. Try it out for fun, put As I Am on and see how the outro suddenly bursts into the intro of Ministry, it's awesome 

I too made my own edit version, and it was an easy job. Sometimes the most controversial solo sections of DT are described as "copy and paste", well, I am by no means a sound editor expert but cutting out the entire solo section of Ministry was so easy.

[jakepriest]

I too made my own edit version, and it was an easy job. Sometimes the most controversial solo sections of DT are described as "copy and paste", well, I am by no means a sound editor expert but cutting out the entire solo section of Ministry was so easy.

you cut out the only good part of the song

rip

[lucidlydreaming]

Ministry of Lost Souls instrumental section needs to be cut out.  Is there a version without it? 

Sees that lucidlydreaming's post counter is at 1

Coming out swinging!
[/quote]

I'm actually an old fan from the old forum days (MP forum, JP forum, DT forum) who stopped listening to prog around Systematic Chaos.  OIALT was my first album.

Fun fact, if you were in any of those forums back around 2000 to the time Portnoy split, you might recognize my name.  I'm still using the same handle.

[adamack]

ADTOE is in my Top 5. I think it's amazing.

To this day, I still cannot understand how this album is not more appreciated. It's in my top 5 as well. I will never forget listening to it for the first time. It was one of the few times I loved an album on its first listen.

For me to like this album so much AND for it to have 3 ballads? That speaks volumes. Granted, Beneath The Surface is one of my fav DT ballads. Just don't care for FFH or TITL much, despite still being good songs.

If FFH was replaced by one more song on par with the rest of the non-ballads on the album, we are potentially looking at a top 3 DT album for me. Though, ToT would probably still have to edge out that 3 spot.

BAL, Outcry, BITS, OTBoA and LNF are simply phenomenal songs. And yes, I even love BMUBMD! BAL is a top 5 DT song ever for me, and the best of the Mangini era. Now that we've gotten a couple more albums in this recent era, I feel like it makes ADToE look even better.

[KevShmev]

My only real beef with ADTOE is the sound of it; it is too muddy and dry.  I'd probably listen to a lot more if it sounded better.  That said, I still like it a ton and it would be in the top half of my favorite DT albums list.

[genome]

My only real beef with ADTOE is the sound of it; it is too muddy and dry.  I'd probably listen to a lot more if it sounded better.  That said, I still like it a ton and it would be in the top half of my favorite DT albums list.

Pretty much exactly my opinion. It feels like they threw the faders up but didn't really EQ anything.

I keep thinking what it would be like if it had D/T's mix