Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Cool Chris]

They need to record “eve” with  vocals

Be sure to let us know when you're finished with the lyrics.

This should be its own thread: "Write lyrics to Eve"

[ReaperKK]

I'm not really sure what's controversial anymore as an opinion, but lets see if I can try. Sorry if I am repeating some, I haven't gone through the entire thread.

1. The greatest era of DT was from 99 - 07
2. This band is terrible at writing ballads - lyrically - (except wait for sleep), and for some reason likes to include way too many.
3. Kevin Moore was the only good lyricist in the band, everyone else has been mediocre with occasional moments of greatness.
4. Derek Sherinian and Mike Portnoy brought a lot of personality balance to the band. That "Rock and Roll swagger" infamously mentioned in the Sons of Apollo teasers. I may still think Derek is a douche, but he was right. Todays DT feels like a band of dorks.
5. I hate that DT became famous for their technicallity, seems like they have been shoehorned into a circus act as a result
6. The albums are too damn long. There are always sections of filler that should have been omitted. DT would be better served with 30 - 45 minute albums.
7. Petrucci and Portnoy were never good with production, and without Portnoy it has gotten worse.

With all that said, I'm still a huge DT fan and cannot wait for Distance Over Time

Alright I'll play:

1. I completely agree
2. I agree somewhat, not all ballads are bad but they are not where DT shines
3. He is good but no better or worse than anyone else in the band IMO. I feel like JP has more duds but that's only because he writes the most
4. Derek was terrible and is terrible, he was awful in the making of FII video, his stage presence was awful. (I may be biased due to the recent shenanigans with SoA)
5. I don't think that's why they got famous, but it does help. People I've spoke to about DT that have heard of them usually say something along the lines "I've heard of them, those dudes can shred!"
6. Longer the better
7. I think JP is the best fit for production, he has a pretty clear vision for the band

[PetFish]

3.  I would consider KM to be the worst lyricist the band has had, with a few exceptions.  I'm with pg1067.  I've never really understood the "cult" that seems to worships KM's lyrics.

I would expect that The Cult of Mangini Lyrics is currently recruiting members in anticipation and have already decreed them the best ever with only a tiny sample size vs a John Petrucci or Mike Portnoy who have dozens of lyrics to form a nice bell curve.

[PetFish]

Regarding This Is The Life...


There are certainly songs I like more, but I must say that TITL is a perfectly written song. One of their finest moments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksQqoXVNTmI

        

EDIT:  I'm hoping this is OK to post since it was part of the official "create a lyric video" thing they did for this album back in the day.

[Ruba]

MP
The Mirror - Another bottom 5-10 DT song for me.  I assume it's a dime-a-dozen song about cocaine, which by 1994 was a tired subject.

Not sure if joking, but I'm saying this anyway.

It's about alcoholism, I see it as a sort of a prequel for 12-step suite. MP coming into terms with the fact that his drinking is getting out of hand, but he doesn't have the strength/know how to stop.

[noxon]

Not necessarily just about alcoholism - addiction in general. While alcohol was the most obvious and apparent substance abuse, Lifting Shadows (the book) and inteviews does paint a picture of more general substance abuse of pills, weed and also coke. There's a line in there about the drum tech preparing lines behind the kit for MP to do inbetween songs. So while alcohol obviously was the biggest problem, it was not only that.

[ToT-147]

Had KevMo remained in the band, I'm sure he would've contributed his fair share of clunkers just like everyone else.

Nah, he used very well the time he was in the band to do many of those..

The greatest era was from 92-99 
The worst was 2002-2010 

Funny, because if I had to play this, I would say the exact opposite.. Especially from 1989 (to include WDADU) up to 1997 (to exclude SFAM) is my least favorite era (as I usually say, the word "worst" and "DT" don't go together), basically because all the albums released within that time frame are my least favorite DT albums... and from 2002 to 2010 is the best era because those 5 are without a doubt their finest works to date..

[The Curious Orange]

I'll have a go too -

1. The greatest era of DT was from 99 - 07
2. This band is terrible at writing ballads - lyrically - (except wait for sleep), and for some reason likes to include way too many.
3. Kevin Moore was the only good lyricist in the band, everyone else has been mediocre with occasional moments of greatness.
4. Derek Sherinian and Mike Portnoy brought a lot of personality balance to the band. That "Rock and Roll swagger" infamously mentioned in the Sons of Apollo teasers. I may still think Derek is a douche, but he was right. Todays DT feels like a band of dorks.
5. I hate that DT became famous for their technicallity, seems like they have been shoehorned into a circus act as a result
6. The albums are too damn long. There are always sections of filler that should have been omitted. DT would be better served with 30 - 45 minute albums.
7. Petrucci and Portnoy were never good with production, and without Portnoy it has gotten worse.

1. This is like asking who was the best James Bond or the best Doctor Who. The answer is the one you grew up with. For me, the best era was Images & Words through to SFAM. Yes, even FII. I've loved everything the band have done to various degrees, right up to The Astonishing, which was first and only DT that disappointed me.
2. The band can write brilliant ballads. They can also write pretty shoddy ones, and I agree, there's too many of the latter. Lyrically? That brings us on to...
3. KevMo was the best lyricist the band have had, agreed. However, I don't listen to DT for the lyrics, and I wouldn't say any of their lyrics are that strong.
4. Derek certainly brought a rock n' roll style to the band, that's true. I quite liked it, and much as I love Jordan, I do wish he'd play a little more like Derek at times. MP was so much the public face of the band that I feel they've lost a lot of what made them special without him - the current line-up don't seem quite as able or willing to connect with the fans as MP was.
5. I disagree, but I know what you mean. The retrospective setlists and all-seater venues, increased ticket prices and VIP packages do make the band seem like a nostalgia legacy band. It's only a matter of time before they're supporting The Eagles...
6. Some of their albums could use a little trimming. Most CD players have a programme feature that lets you programme out the tracks you may not be in the mood to listen to. Other playback technology is available.
7. I have no complaints with the production other than this need for everything to be louder than everything else, but that's a general trend in modern music and not restricted to DT. I'd like to see them work with an outside producer, purely because I'd like to see a bit of variety in there, but I understand they had bad experiences with outside producers, so I get why they don't. It's their decision, and I've no real problems with the sound JP is getting out of them.

[bosk1]

3.  I would consider KM to be the worst lyricist the band has had, with a few exceptions.  I'm with pg1067.  I've never really understood the "cult" that seems to worships KM's lyrics.

I would expect that The Cult of Mangini Lyrics is currently recruiting members in anticipation and have already decreed them the best ever with only a tiny sample size vs a John Petrucci or Mike Portnoy who have dozens of lyrics to form a nice bell curve.

Oh, certainly.  And the song he chose to write lyrics for is kinda out there and quirky, and generally pretty fitting with Mangini's personality.  Going forward, I predict that it will have had the effect of permanently shaping perceptions of Mangini as a lyricist.

Oh, and by the way, there are now as many as 8 song titles that have been revealed in the public domain.

[Sebastián Pratesi]

Oh, and by the way, there are now as many as 8 song titles that have been revealed in the public domain.

Is it possible they've been revealed through Inside Out's Instagram stories? I'm not on Instagram, so I can't tell.
Either that, or the titles of the videos on the 'fake' YouTube account are actually real?

[rab7]

Oh, and by the way, there are now as many as 8 song titles that have been revealed in the public domain.

By "revealed in the public domain", do you mean that the names have actually been revealed or confirmed to be titles?

Or are you saying that apart from the 4 songs mentioned in the RS interview, we can deduce the other four from careful analysis?

(Example: The other 4 songs are called "Distance over Time", "Don't be afraid of letting go", "Open your heart", "Be set free")

[bosk1]

Oh, and by the way, there are now as many as 8 song titles that have been revealed in the public domain.

By "revealed in the public domain", do you mean that the names have actually been revealed or confirmed to be titles?

Or are you saying that apart from the 4 songs mentioned in the RS interview, we can deduce the other four from careful analysis?

(Example: The other 4 songs are called "Distance over Time", "Don't be afraid of letting go", "Open your heart", "Be set free")

Bolded.

[Bertielee]

Oh, and by the way, there are now as many as 8 song titles that have been revealed in the public domain.

Is it possible they've been revealed through Inside Out's Instagram stories? I'm not on Instagram, so I can't tell.
Either that, or the titles of the videos on the 'fake' YouTube account are actually real?

May be late to the party but : which fake account? And 8 titles revealed?!?

[bosk1]

Since there are a LOT of people on here who are REALLY good Internet detectives, I'll just leave it to you all to figure the rest out.  I won't say anything else. 

[Peace and Love]

5. I hate that DT became famous for their technicallity, seems like they have been shoehorned into a circus act as a result

Could not disagree more. I heard this kind of point being made in the DOT interview #2 as well - "do you feel pressure to write a certain way because fans expect a million notes per hour from you" and I disagreed with that as well.

This is a band that wrote Vacant, Disappear, The Spirit Carries On, I Walk Beside You, The Bigger Picture... hell, The Astonishing.

I think they absolutely do not feel pressure to include gratituous solos and technicality in songs because they are "expected" from a circus act. When those parts exist, I think a major reason is simply that the band loves that style of music. Look at JR or JP's solo albums to see what they make outside of Dream Theater - it's highly technical.

[rab7]

Oh, and by the way, there are now as many as 8 song titles that have been revealed in the public domain.

Is it possible they've been revealed through Inside Out's Instagram stories? I'm not on Instagram, so I can't tell.
Either that, or the titles of the videos on the 'fake' YouTube account are actually real?

May be late to the party but : which fake account? And 8 titles revealed?!?

There's a yt account that's been posting fake songs with reasonably plausible titles. "The Event Horizon" is the only one I reember

[Ruba]

Not necessarily just about alcoholism - addiction in general. While alcohol was the most obvious and apparent substance abuse, Lifting Shadows (the book) and inteviews does paint a picture of more general substance abuse of pills, weed and also coke. There's a line in there about the drum tech preparing lines behind the kit for MP to do inbetween songs. So while alcohol obviously was the biggest problem, it was not only that.

Oh, right. I didn't know MP used to do coke as well.

Weed on the other hand, well, that's almost given when talking about a young rock/metal musician.

[Sebastián Pratesi]

May be late to the party but : which fake account? And 8 titles revealed?!?

Right after the treasure hunt was solved and the 37-second snippet shared, a YouTube account with the name 'Dream Theater' and the same profile pic as the official account posted a few videos of what appeared to be new songs. The account seems to have been deleted.

And RE: the 8 titles, four of them have been revealed through the Rolling Stone article/interview. So, we have to discover the other four that have been revealed according to Bosk.

[Bertielee]

May be late to the party but : which fake account? And 8 titles revealed?!?

Right after the treasure hunt was solved and the 37-second snippet shared, a YouTube account with the name 'Dream Theater' and the same profile pic as the official account posted a few videos of what appeared to be new songs. The account seems to have been deleted.

And RE: the 8 titles, four of them have been revealed through the Rolling Stone article/interview. So, we have to discover the other four that have been revealed according to Bosk.

Thanks, Sebastian! I know the 4 revealed but the other 4 are a mystery. And, Bosky, you are such a TEASE!!!

B.Lee

[ToT-147]

People keep saying the nonsense of the"nostalgia act", having as only argument that their setlists are lately full of old songs... DUH, that's what every band in the world does, except maybe some bands that make the bold decision of performing the entire new album and nothing else... oh wait, why does that sound so familiar??!!...

[SjundeInseglet]

People keep saying the nonsense of the"nostalgia act", having as only argument that their setlists are lately full of old songs... DUH, that's what every band in the world does, except maybe some bands that make the bold decision of performing the entire new album and nothing else... oh wait, why does that sound so familiar??!!...

As long as DT keeps releasing new music on a regular basis and including a fair batch of new songs on the subsequent tour, there is no way you can call the band a "nostalgia act".

[Sebastián Pratesi]

No song-titles in InsideOut's Instagram stories.

[Bertielee]

People keep saying the nonsense of the"nostalgia act", having as only argument that their setlists are lately full of old songs... DUH, that's what every band in the world does, except maybe some bands that make the bold decision of performing the entire new album and nothing else... oh wait, why does that sound so familiar??!!...

As long as DT keeps releasing new music on a regular basis and including a fair batch of new songs on the subsequent tour, there is no way you can call the band a "nostalgia act".

Agreed. I Don't know why some will think that. They're far from being a nostalgia act.

[bosk1]

I don't think "some" will think that.  It isn't a reasonable conclusion.

[Bertielee]

I don't think "some" will think that.  It isn't a reasonable conclusion.

I Don't mean anyone in particular, and I can't remember when, but I saw this opinion kind of emerge.

[Samsara]

There comes a point with every long-standing band that they inevitably are called nostalgia. Dream Theater will get there. But they aren't there yet.

The first step is the past albums in their entirety thing. DT has done that, and is doing that. BUT, because they still regularly release music, and they support it live, they haven't crossed that threshold.

The next step is a noticeable long gap between new music, and touring on the "hits" (which for DT is sorta...lets tour on fan favorites, since we only have like one hit - ha ha ha).

The final step is noticing that the crowd is not getting any younger. DT isn't there yet by a long shot. Young metalheads and progheads keep coming. That's a good sign.

So for me, in how I evaluate it, DT has a long way to go yet before becoming nostalgia.

[bosk1]

This is sort of an extension of your "next step," but to me, one of the most important factors is abandoning promotion of new music on tour, and putting out new music mainly (or solely) as an excuse to tour on the hits/fan-favorites.  That's probably the biggest factor for me:  when a band either stops making new music altogether or does make new music, but clearly doesn't care about promoting it and realizes the fans they are catering to don't care either.

[rab7]

The next step is a noticeable long gap between new music, and touring on the "hits" (which for DT is sorta...lets tour on fan favorites, since we only have like one hit - ha ha ha).

January 2016 to February 2019 is actually the longest gap in DT history, and this was done while touring on full Images and Words. I'm not saying we're completely in Step 2, but we're almost there

[bosk1]

The next step is a noticeable long gap between new music, and touring on the "hits" (which for DT is sorta...lets tour on fan favorites, since we only have like one hit - ha ha ha).

January 2016 to February 2019 is actually the longest gap in DT history, and this was done while touring on full Images and Words. I'm not saying we're completely in Step 2, but we're almost there

Not at all, since they were touring constantly during that time, most of that time being touring almost exclusively on new material.  One 3-year gap filled by promoting the last new album doesn't even remotely qualify as being "almost" to step 2. 

[Bertielee]

The next step is a noticeable long gap between new music, and touring on the "hits" (which for DT is sorta...lets tour on fan favorites, since we only have like one hit - ha ha ha).

January 2016 to February 2019 is actually the longest gap in DT history, and this was done while touring on full Images and Words. I'm not saying we're completely in Step 2, but we're almost there

Not at all, since they were touring constantly during that time, most of that time being touring almost exclusively on new material.  One 3-year gap filled by promoting the last new album doesn't even remotely qualify as being "almost" to step 2.

Yep, they were touring for TA during that time span. Maybe rab7 hated the album so much he forgot it as well as the tour following?

[ToT-147]

The next step is a noticeable long gap between new music, and touring on the "hits" (which for DT is sorta...lets tour on fan favorites, since we only have like one hit - ha ha ha).

January 2016 to February 2019 is actually the longest gap in DT history, and this was done while touring on full Images and Words. I'm not saying we're completely in Step 2, but we're almost there

DT is not in any of these "steps".. That was indeed their longest gap between albums, but they released a double album... And they aren't 40 minute long each one (like BTBAM and other bands are doing and like most bands have always done actually).. You had more than TWO hours of music in there, so the 3 years gap is relative..

[rab7]

Maybe rab7 hated the album so much he forgot it as well as the tour following?

Haha I am firmly in the "I loved The Astonishing" camp.

I was misguided in trying to find meaning in their long break between albums. I have since been thoroughly refuted.

[Samsara]

re: Steps

This is just how I personally sort of gauge whether a band fits into that "nostalgia" category or not. It's obviously just personal preference. Not saying DT SHOULD be viewed in this manner. Its just how I evaluate it.

[bosk1]

re: Steps

This is just how I personally sort of gauge whether a band fits into that "nostalgia" category or not. It's obviously just personal preference. Not saying DT SHOULD be viewed in this manner. Its just how I evaluate it.

But given how the terms "nostalgia band" is primarily used, your "steps" pretty objectively fit that meaning.  And there's clearly a difference between a band doing a "nostalgia tour" and being a "nostalgia act."  DT has done the former, clearly.  Many, many bands that have been around for a long period of time and have particular landmark albums have done as well.  But for reasons you mentioned, unless that becomes the primary focus of the band, they aren't a "nostalgia act." 

[Indiscipline]

I fail to find any logical reason to call a band three years removed from a concept DOUBLE album (and a new one coming out of the oven) a "nostalgia act".