Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Ruba]

Controversial opinion (and most of you will disagree with me on this): The Great Debate is the best song on SDOIT Disc 1.

Hmmm... Misunderstood is my favourite, but TGD and Disappear share the second place. The first disc of Six Degrees is the best material they've released with Rudess.

[gzarruk]

Controversial opinion (and most of you will disagree with me on this): The Great Debate is the best song on SDOIT Disc 1.

The first disc of Six Degrees is the best material they've released with Rudess.

I really can't disagree with that

[llpyyz]

Controversial opinion (and most of you will disagree with me on this): The Great Debate is the best song on SDOIT Disc 1.

Guess I'm not one of most. It's easily my favorite, and that says a lot given how much I love Blind Faith, Misunderstood, The Test That Stumped Them All, and the utterly heartbreaking Solitary Shell.

[gzarruk]

Controversial opinion (and most of you will disagree with me on this): The Great Debate is the best song on SDOIT Disc 1.

Guess I'm not one of most. It's easily my favorite, and that says a lot given how much I love Blind Faith, Misunderstood, The Test That Stumped Them All, and the utterly heartbreaking Solitary Shell.

I said it because there seems to be A LOT of people here who love TGP more than anything else on that album But TGD is fantastic

[ToT-147]

I said it because there seems to be A LOT of people here who love TGP more than anything else on that album But TGD is fantastic

Yeah, there really isn't too many songs that I like more than the big four off ToT, and TGP is clearly one of them.. It simply is the best prog metal song that has ever existed..

On the subject of The Astonishing, I have a super controversial one too: The Astonishing is their best album. I even like it better than SFaM, 8varium, SDoIT, ADToE, ToT, Awake, and I&W.

I suppose that if you think is their best, is because you like it better than all the other albums, right?.. I ask this only because it was something we were talking about I think in this very thread not too many pages before..

And btw, TA rules!..

[ReaperKK]

Controversial opinion (and most of you will disagree with me on this): The Great Debate is the best song on SDOIT Disc 1.

Most days I agree with you.

[pg1067]

Controversial opinion (and most of you will disagree with me on this): The Great Debate is the best song on SDOIT Disc 1.

Hmmm... Misunderstood is my favourite, but TGD and Disappear share the second place. The first disc of Six Degrees is the best material they've released with Rudess.

Disc 1 of SDOIT is completely hit or miss for me.  Blind Faith is my favorite by a fairly wide margin.  Misunderstood is also great, although marred by the long ending section (although that's easily skippable).  TGP is really good.  The Great Debate is, for me, a bottom 5 DT song (along with, probably, Innocence Faded, New Millennium, Repentance and Ministry of Lost Souls), and Disappear is pretty well unmemorable.  In other words, when listening to disc 1 of SDOIT, once the main part of Misunderstood is done, I generally skip to disc 2.

[425]

I'd call disc 1 of SDOIT hit-or-miss within each song. It's clear that they wanted to add experimental elements to each track, and I think most of the individual songs have aspects that work and aspects that don't.

The album really stands out in the band's discography for this approach. And due to how many of the experiments fall flat for me, it mainly stands out for its negative aspects. I am very glad that they did not make another one like it. Still probably my least favorite DT album.

[gzarruk]

I'd call disc 1 of SDOIT hit-or-miss within each song. It's clear that they wanted to add experimental elements to each track, and I think most of the individual songs have aspects that work and aspects that don't.

The album really stands out in the band's discography for this approach. And due to how many of the experiments fall flat for me, it mainly stands out for its negative aspects. I am very glad that they did not make another one like it. Still probably my least favorite DT album.

Now THAT's what I call controversial

[mikeyd23]

The first disc of Six Degrees is the best material they've released with Rudess.

I think I'd probably agree with this. It's a tough call but that first disc is pretty amazing.

[Anxiety35]

Here's my controversial opinion...

With the tour coming in 2019, I don't care to hear SFAM without MP on the drums.

Hear me out. I'm not an apologist for MP and I'm not one screaming for him to be back in the band. I've enjoyed every release with MM behind the kit. However, with MM playing SFAM material, it seems too rigid, too stiff (search YouTube fore clips).

[Ninjabait]

On the subject of The Astonishing, I have a super controversial one too: The Astonishing is their best album. I even like it better than SFaM, 8varium, SDoIT, ADToE, ToT, Awake, and I&W.

I suppose that if you think is their best, is because you like it better than all the other albums, right?.. I ask this only because it was something we were talking about I think in this very thread not too many pages before..

And btw, TA rules!..

Oh yeah, absolutely. I was mostly rattling off those albums for emphasis.

[mikeyd23]

Here's my controversial opinion...

With the tour coming in 2019, I don't care to hear SFAM without MP on the drums.

Hear me out. I'm not an apologist for MP and I'm not one screaming for him to be back in the band. I've enjoyed every release with MM behind the kit. However, with MM playing SFAM material, it seems too rigid, too stiff (search YouTube fore clips).

Generally, I thought MM did a great job playing the SFAM material (as he usually does). The only part that stuck out to me as "off" was the outro to Finally Free. Totally lacked the energy and wild vibe it needed. Besides that, it was good.

[hefdaddy42]

Eve is a Top 10 song.

[bosk1]

Eve is a Top 10 song.

I think you are looking for the "metal health" thread in P/R.

[Anxiety35]

Here's my controversial opinion...

With the tour coming in 2019, I don't care to hear SFAM without MP on the drums.

Hear me out. I'm not an apologist for MP and I'm not one screaming for him to be back in the band. I've enjoyed every release with MM behind the kit. However, with MM playing SFAM material, it seems too rigid, too stiff (search YouTube fore clips).

Generally, I thought MM did a great job playing the SFAM material (as he usually does). The only part that stuck out to me as "off" was the outro to Finally Free. Totally lacked the energy and wild vibe it needed. Besides that, it was good.

I think if you put anything in front of MM he can play it. The guy is mega talented. I've liked him being in DT. To me, MP was much of the soul for SFAM and to not have him playing the parts live, it seems not quite right. Not saying that Mangini can't or doesn't play them right, it's not quite the same. I agree with your observation on the outro of Finally Free. That's a classic MP part.

Nevertheless, I plan on seeing them on this tour and I'm sure I will enjoy it.

[mikeyd23]

Here's my controversial opinion...

With the tour coming in 2019, I don't care to hear SFAM without MP on the drums.

Hear me out. I'm not an apologist for MP and I'm not one screaming for him to be back in the band. I've enjoyed every release with MM behind the kit. However, with MM playing SFAM material, it seems too rigid, too stiff (search YouTube fore clips).

Generally, I thought MM did a great job playing the SFAM material (as he usually does). The only part that stuck out to me as "off" was the outro to Finally Free. Totally lacked the energy and wild vibe it needed. Besides that, it was good.

I think if you put anything in front of MM he can play it. The guy is mega talented. I've liked him being in DT. To me, MP was much of the soul for SFAM and to not have him playing the parts live, it seems not quite right. Not saying that Mangini can't or doesn't play them right, it's not quite the same. I agree with your observation on the outro of Finally Free. That's a classic MP part.

Nevertheless, I plan on seeing them on this tour and I'm sure I will enjoy it.

I have no idea what you mean by the bolded. He was the soul of SFAM? How about the other dudes in the band? 

[Setlist Scotty]

The first disc of Six Degrees is the best material they've released with Rudess.

I think I'd probably agree with this. It's a tough call but that first disc is pretty amazing.

I concur. Disappear is my favorite on that disc; it grabbed me on my initial hearing of the album and has stuck with me ever since, although I love everything on the first disc save for the drawn out outro of Misunderstood. OTOH, the second disc.....well, it's grown on me, but still pales in comparison to the first disc and several other albums in their catalog.

[hefdaddy42]

Eve is a Top 10 song.

I think you are looking for the "metal health" thread in P/R.

[gzarruk]

Here's my controversial opinion...

With the tour coming in 2019, I don't care to hear SFAM without MP on the drums.

Hear me out. I'm not an apologist for MP and I'm not one screaming for him to be back in the band. I've enjoyed every release with MM behind the kit. However, with MM playing SFAM material, it seems too rigid, too stiff (search YouTube fore clips).

Generally, I thought MM did a great job playing the SFAM material (as he usually does). The only part that stuck out to me as "off" was the outro to Finally Free. Totally lacked the energy and wild vibe it needed. Besides that, it was good.

The thing with the FF outro on BTFW is that he didn't even try to play it like on the album. You'll see videos on youtube comparing the version of Metropolis 2000 with MP and the BTFW with MM and using it as an agument for how MP is superior to MM and blah blah. It doesn't take a genius to realize he wasn't trying to do that at all. He approached that part differently. It might've been a suggestion by the band, who knows? I agree that the album version is amazing and that he probably should've tried to add his own style to it instead of doing a complete different thing, but it isn't like he tried and failed or anything like that.

The first disc of Six Degrees is the best material they've released with Rudess.

I think I'd probably agree with this. It's a tough call but that first disc is pretty amazing.

I concur. Disappear is my favorite on that disc; it grabbed me on my initial hearing of the album and has stuck with me ever since, although I love everything on the first disc save for the drawn out outro of Misunderstood. OTOH, the second disc.....well, it's grown on me, but still pales in comparison to the first disc and several other albums in their catalog.

I think that's because the first disc has 5 very experimental songs that had stuff they never tried before (or even after), so they stand out a lot more vs disc 2 which is imo them trying to make the ultimate classic-sounding DT epic. I love both parts, but definitely prefer disc 1 over 2.

[mikeyd23]

Here's my controversial opinion...

With the tour coming in 2019, I don't care to hear SFAM without MP on the drums.

Hear me out. I'm not an apologist for MP and I'm not one screaming for him to be back in the band. I've enjoyed every release with MM behind the kit. However, with MM playing SFAM material, it seems too rigid, too stiff (search YouTube fore clips).

Generally, I thought MM did a great job playing the SFAM material (as he usually does). The only part that stuck out to me as "off" was the outro to Finally Free. Totally lacked the energy and wild vibe it needed. Besides that, it was good.

The thing with the FF outro on BTFW is that he didn't even try to play it like on the album. You'll see videos on youtube comparing the version of Metropolis 2000 with MP and the BTFW with MM and using it as an agument for how MP is superior to MM and blah blah. It doesn't take a genius to realize he wasn't trying to do that at all. He approached that part differently. It might've been a suggestion by the band, who knows? I agree that the album version is amazing and that he probably should've tried to add his own style to it instead of doing a complete different thing, but it isn't like he tried and failed or anything like that.

I think if MM wanted to play the album version note-for-note he would have learned it and played it perfectly. Clearly he didn't want to do that, and honestly that's fine. My comment was that his version of that section just felt "off" to me. That's all.

[gzarruk]

Here's my controversial opinion...

With the tour coming in 2019, I don't care to hear SFAM without MP on the drums.

Hear me out. I'm not an apologist for MP and I'm not one screaming for him to be back in the band. I've enjoyed every release with MM behind the kit. However, with MM playing SFAM material, it seems too rigid, too stiff (search YouTube fore clips).

Generally, I thought MM did a great job playing the SFAM material (as he usually does). The only part that stuck out to me as "off" was the outro to Finally Free. Totally lacked the energy and wild vibe it needed. Besides that, it was good.

The thing with the FF outro on BTFW is that he didn't even try to play it like on the album. You'll see videos on youtube comparing the version of Metropolis 2000 with MP and the BTFW with MM and using it as an agument for how MP is superior to MM and blah blah. It doesn't take a genius to realize he wasn't trying to do that at all. He approached that part differently. It might've been a suggestion by the band, who knows? I agree that the album version is amazing and that he probably should've tried to add his own style to it instead of doing a complete different thing, but it isn't like he tried and failed or anything like that.

I think if MM wanted to play the album version note-for-note he would have learned it and played it perfectly. Clearly he didn't want to do that, and honestly that's fine. My comment was that his version of that section just felt "off" to me. That's all.

No worries, it wasn't a dig at you, sorry if it felt that way. I'm also hoping he plays it "closer" to the album this time.

[mikeyd23]

Here's my controversial opinion...

With the tour coming in 2019, I don't care to hear SFAM without MP on the drums.

Hear me out. I'm not an apologist for MP and I'm not one screaming for him to be back in the band. I've enjoyed every release with MM behind the kit. However, with MM playing SFAM material, it seems too rigid, too stiff (search YouTube fore clips).

Generally, I thought MM did a great job playing the SFAM material (as he usually does). The only part that stuck out to me as "off" was the outro to Finally Free. Totally lacked the energy and wild vibe it needed. Besides that, it was good.

The thing with the FF outro on BTFW is that he didn't even try to play it like on the album. You'll see videos on youtube comparing the version of Metropolis 2000 with MP and the BTFW with MM and using it as an agument for how MP is superior to MM and blah blah. It doesn't take a genius to realize he wasn't trying to do that at all. He approached that part differently. It might've been a suggestion by the band, who knows? I agree that the album version is amazing and that he probably should've tried to add his own style to it instead of doing a complete different thing, but it isn't like he tried and failed or anything like that.

I think if MM wanted to play the album version note-for-note he would have learned it and played it perfectly. Clearly he didn't want to do that, and honestly that's fine. My comment was that his version of that section just felt "off" to me. That's all.

No worries, it wasn't a dig at you, sorry if it felt that way. I'm also hoping he plays it "closer" to the album this time.

All good man, no worries. I was just clarifying.

[Ben_Jamin]

Here's my controversial opinion...

With the tour coming in 2019, I don't care to hear SFAM without MP on the drums.

Hear me out. I'm not an apologist for MP and I'm not one screaming for him to be back in the band. I've enjoyed every release with MM behind the kit. However, with MM playing SFAM material, it seems too rigid, too stiff (search YouTube fore clips).

Generally, I thought MM did a great job playing the SFAM material (as he usually does). The only part that stuck out to me as "off" was the outro to Finally Free. Totally lacked the energy and wild vibe it needed. Besides that, it was good.

The thing with the FF outro on BTFW is that he didn't even try to play it like on the album. You'll see videos on youtube comparing the version of Metropolis 2000 with MP and the BTFW with MM and using it as an agument for how MP is superior to MM and blah blah. It doesn't take a genius to realize he wasn't trying to do that at all. He approached that part differently. It might've been a suggestion by the band, who knows? I agree that the album version is amazing and that he probably should've tried to add his own style to it instead of doing a complete different thing, but it isn't like he tried and failed or anything like that.

I think if MM wanted to play the album version note-for-note he would have learned it and played it perfectly. Clearly he didn't want to do that, and honestly that's fine. My comment was that his version of that section just felt "off" to me. That's all.

Is it that one part where he does an odd time sig, or something of the sort.

[mikeyd23]

Is it that one part where he does an odd time sig, or something of the sort.

Just talking about the outro of the song when MP does a series of fills over the outro riff.

[Ben_Jamin]

Is it that one part where he does an odd time sig, or something of the sort.

Just talking about the outro of the song when MP does a series of fills over the outro riff.

Me too. Mangini does a polyrhytmn or something of that sort. Thats why that part sounds off.

I don't care how Mangini or Portnoy played that part. I saw it as basically an ending fade out drum solo.

I do hope they bring back the outro instrumental though, its an epic way to end it.

[erwinrafael]

My controversial opinion is that as a drummer, I hate that Finally Free outro. I always viewed drum parts as playing a function for the song, but that part is just a freaking "look-at-me" moment that got old after a few listens.

[jakepriest]

My controversial opinion is that as a drummer, I hate that Finally Free outro. I always viewed drum parts as playing a function for the song, but that part is just a freaking "look-at-me" moment that got old after a few listens.

But isn't that because you hate everything MP has ever recorded?

[erwinrafael]

LOL. Well, Awake is still my most favorite drumming album, so no. :-P

[gzarruk]

LOL. Well, Awake is still my most favorite drumming album, so no. :-P

Agree! Awake is one of MP's best drumming recordings by far. Not necesarilly the tone, as his tone with Tama is better, but the creativity and playing on all the parts is incredible.

Other one that I think shows MP's current style very well, even though is highly underated, is Systematic Chaos. The songs might not be everybody's cup of tea, but no one can deny MP's drumming is top notch there.

[KevShmev]

I doubt this will be controversial, but find me a Dream Theater album where the drumming isn't top notch.  I will save you the time: you can't, so don't bother. 

[erwinrafael]

I will say BC&SL. It's a weird mix of uninspired and overdrumming.

[DTA]

I will say BC&SL. It's a weird mix of uninspired and overdrumming.

I'd say that about the drumming from Octavarium, SC, and BC&SL to be honest. Nothing at all badly performed, but his bag of tricks felt overdone by that point and he never really seemed to push himself or expand his vocabulary like he did on ToT and before. I'd say as a whole, ToT was the last album where MP's drumming felt really inspired. His downward trajectory is directly correlated to his lack of octoban/aux percussion usage.

[ToT-147]

Nah..

[erwinrafael]

I will say BC&SL. It's a weird mix of uninspired and overdrumming.

I'd say that about the drumming from Octavarium, SC, and BC&SL to be honest. Nothing at all badly performed, but his bag of tricks felt overdone by that point and he never really seemed to push himself or expand his vocabulary like he did on ToT and before. I'd say as a whole, ToT was the last album where MP's drumming felt really inspired. His downward trajectory is directly correlated to his lack of octoban/aux percussion usage.

There were some gems from that run of albums. Octavarium, Panic Attack, Constant Motion, TDEN, and ITPOE is MP really drumming to the song. They have the elements of what I love about his work in Awake: I can hear how meticulously composed the drum parts are to fit the music and mark the sections of the song. Somewhere along the way, MP relied more and more on flashiness instead of his very good composition skills to show how good he is, and for me, it didn't work.