Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 409098 times)

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Online hefdaddy42

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8575 on: November 06, 2018, 02:19:19 PM »
Yeah, not controversial at all.  I mean, for me personally, it is among my least favorite songs on ADTOE and DT12 combined (I really find it hard to rank individual songs on TA because it is such a unified work and the songs, individually, are so different from "traditional" DT).  But I know I am WAY in the minority on that one.
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Offline The Curious Orange

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8576 on: November 07, 2018, 02:36:27 AM »
OK, let's see how controversial this turns out to be:

Making a sequel to Octavarium strikes me as a really dumb idea.
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Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8577 on: November 07, 2018, 05:45:03 AM »
Wait is this album supposed to be a sequel to Octvarium?

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8578 on: November 07, 2018, 05:49:57 AM »
Wait is this album supposed to be a sequel to Octvarium?

It isn’t, it’s a joke because of the 137 nuggetz :lol
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline ToT-147

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8579 on: November 07, 2018, 06:29:43 AM »
Judging by all opinions I've seen/heard so far since BAI came out, I don't think having it in the top 3 would be controversial at all..

Having TDoE in your top 3, like the guy who writes, might be consider as controversial :lol, but someone correct me if I'm wrong, BAI is the most classic/popular DT track of the last 12 years...

I've seen more than one person express the opinion that BAI is their favorite song of the Mangini era, but "of the last 12 years" takes us back through Systematic Chaos, which potentially raises the "MP versus MM" issue.  Personally, I have BAI at either #1 or #2 for Mangini era songs (the only possible alternative being "Illumination Theory"), and I would extend that to include SC and BC&SL, but I think there are some folks who would rank ITPOE and/or TCOT higher than BAI.  But I agree that having BAI in one's top 3 isn't particularly controversial.

I said "12 years" to exclude 8V, but yeah, I for instance would also rank -not just a few but several- songs higher than BAI..


(Since we're at it, best songs from 2007-2016 IMO:

The Count of Tuscany
Ravenskill

The Ministry of Lost Souls
The Walking Shadow
Outcry
Three Days
The Path that Divides

In the Presence of Enemies II
The Bigger Picture
A Nightmare to Remember
The Shattered Fortress
Breaking All Illusions)
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8580 on: November 07, 2018, 10:18:51 AM »
:umno:
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8581 on: November 07, 2018, 08:48:50 PM »
Exactly my point..
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Offline Evai

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8582 on: November 08, 2018, 04:58:14 AM »
This doesn't really apply to DT much, but I find most odd-time-signature changes to be dumb. Like you're purposefully trying to emulate a skipping CD.
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Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8583 on: November 08, 2018, 05:54:29 AM »
This doesn't really apply to DT much, but I find most odd-time-signature changes to be dumb. Like you're purposefully trying to emulate a skipping CD.
Unless you live in a part of the world where uneven time signatures are part of folk music (raises hand), in which case it sounds perfectly natural.

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Offline Sebastián Pratesi

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8584 on: November 08, 2018, 06:35:35 AM »
Unless you live in a part of the world where uneven time signatures are part of folk music (raises hand), in which case it sounds perfectly natural.
Totally! I mean, where I live they are not common, but I love Greek music, and it seems that they use those a lot!
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8585 on: November 08, 2018, 11:11:49 AM »
This doesn't really apply to DT much, but I find most odd-time-signature changes to be dumb. Like you're purposefully trying to emulate a skipping CD.

Huh?!

I've never heard an odd time signature change that sounded like the artist was "purposefully trying to emulate a skipping CD" (or vinyl record).  Does the chorus of "Roundabout" or the middle section of "Tom Sawyer" or the main riff of Pink Floyd's "Money" sound like a skipping CD to you?
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Offline madscot

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8586 on: November 08, 2018, 02:44:41 PM »
Based on the fact that DT were my fave band from 1992 until 2016 The astonishing made me fall out of love with them, they have some way to go to be my fave band again, this is from someone who loves concept albums and rock music played with an orchestra, TA was the biggest disappointment of my musical life!

Offline rumborak

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8587 on: November 08, 2018, 04:04:23 PM »
Here's a controversial question: Has DT arrived at the point in their career where they have to do a "retrospective" of a classic album to draw enough people for a tour?
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Offline TAC

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8588 on: November 08, 2018, 04:08:18 PM »
Here's a controversial question: Has DT arrived at the point in their career where they have to do a "retrospective" of a classic album to draw enough people for a tour?

We're talking about that in the new album thread over the last couple of days.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8589 on: November 08, 2018, 04:11:54 PM »
Oh, ok.

*Heads over*
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8590 on: November 08, 2018, 04:39:40 PM »
Awake is a far superior album to Images And Words. The album improved and upgraded everything Images and Words got right. From the production, to the songs, to the jams. It's the prog fans "Prog" album. All members are on top form on this album, and has some of LaBries sickests performances, and not to forget Portnoy, his drumming is so virtuoso and fun! Kevin Moore really shines lyrically in this album; Scarred and Space Dye Vest are among the best DT songs ever written. Voices, Lifting Shadows, 6:00, this album like Images and Words has zero duds in the tracklist. Def a top 3 DT album in my book. Hell, Top 2.

Offline Progmetty

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8591 on: November 08, 2018, 07:59:56 PM »
I've only got one opinion on DT that people consider "controversial" and I posted it here a long time ago but I wanted to say that I was reading through the last couple of pages out of boredom and saw someone saying Ravenskill was a favorite. I realized I don't know which one is that, I've almost never heard separate songs from The Astonishing, always listened to it in it's entirety. I can tell the singles and the first few songs up until Three Days, I remember Heaven's Cove and The Path That Divides but otherwise all the other song titles don't ring any bells for me, I need to fix that problem heh
Like this long ass section from when Faythe decided to go look for Gabriel until her brother goes to threaten Xander, is the second biggest snooze, I don't know how many songs is that stretch, it feels like 4 songs but it's probably 2 or 3 max.
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Offline ToT-147

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8592 on: November 08, 2018, 10:32:01 PM »
I need to fix that problem heh

Yes.. I agree.. :lol

On the contrary, I've listened to the album so many times that I know it just like I know any other DT album..

TA is their best Mangini-era album, and since someone here above said as controversial opinion that he thinks Awake is better than I&W, not only that I agree with him, but I consider TA to be easily better than those two... and better than SFAM too..
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8593 on: November 08, 2018, 10:52:16 PM »
That is not a controversial opinion son, that is a get-slapped-with-a-fly-swatter opinion.
TA is good, it's better than the self titled, FII & WDADU IMO, maybe even better than BS&SL, but that's as far a stretch as it goes.
When TA is good, it's brilliant, but it has huge chunks of lame, spread through out. It's very unbalanced and it fails to accomplish what it sets out to do conceptually. I've said it before but TA needed more than DT's usual 2-years album cycle deal, it had potential to be something really special I think, maybe if more time was spent on the concept and also if it was cut significantly shorter, like 1 CD would have done it just fine.
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Offline Evai

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8594 on: November 09, 2018, 04:23:44 AM »
This doesn't really apply to DT much, but I find most odd-time-signature changes to be dumb. Like you're purposefully trying to emulate a skipping CD.

Huh?!

I've never heard an odd time signature change that sounded like the artist was "purposefully trying to emulate a skipping CD" (or vinyl record).  Does the chorus of "Roundabout" or the middle section of "Tom Sawyer" or the main riff of Pink Floyd's "Money" sound like a skipping CD to you?

Money has the same time signature throughout, it's not an odd time signature change  :smiley:
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8595 on: November 09, 2018, 05:31:25 AM »
This doesn't really apply to DT much, but I find most odd-time-signature changes to be dumb. Like you're purposefully trying to emulate a skipping CD.

Huh?!

I've never heard an odd time signature change that sounded like the artist was "purposefully trying to emulate a skipping CD" (or vinyl record).  Does the chorus of "Roundabout" or the middle section of "Tom Sawyer" or the main riff of Pink Floyd's "Money" sound like a skipping CD to you?

Money has the same time signature throughout, it's not an odd time signature change  :smiley:

The guitar solo section is in 4/4, the rest in 7/8 (or 7/4).
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Podaar

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8596 on: November 09, 2018, 05:31:50 AM »
Um. No it doesn't, and yes it is.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8597 on: November 09, 2018, 09:49:13 AM »
This doesn't really apply to DT much, but I find most odd-time-signature changes to be dumb. Like you're purposefully trying to emulate a skipping CD.

Ok, so what you're saying is, DT isn't dumb for doing it but everyone else is?  :lol  Oh, and the skipping CD emulation thing makes no sense.  Thanks for playing.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8598 on: November 09, 2018, 09:51:55 AM »
I've only got one opinion on DT that people consider "controversial" and I posted it here a long time ago but I wanted to say that I was reading through the last couple of pages out of boredom and saw someone saying Ravenskill was a favorite. I realized I don't know which one is that, I've almost never heard separate songs from The Astonishing, always listened to it in it's entirety. I can tell the singles and the first few songs up until Three Days, I remember Heaven's Cove and The Path That Divides but otherwise all the other song titles don't ring any bells for me, I need to fix that problem heh
Like this long ass section from when Faythe decided to go look for Gabriel until her brother goes to threaten Xander, is the second biggest snooze, I don't know how many songs is that stretch, it feels like 4 songs but it's probably 2 or 3 max.

That is a stretch there for like 3 or 4 songs that start out all slow.  Like Ravenskill does as well, but then gets much heavier and interesting.  I feel that's a legit flaw of TA, it comes off as a lot of really slow soft music.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8599 on: November 09, 2018, 10:08:26 AM »
That is not a controversial opinion son, that is a get-slapped-with-a-fly-swatter opinion.
TA is good, it's better than the self titled, FII & WDADU IMO, maybe even better than BS&SL, but that's as far a stretch as it goes.
When TA is good, it's brilliant, but it has huge chunks of lame, spread through out. It's very unbalanced and it fails to accomplish what it sets out to do conceptually. I've said it before but TA needed more than DT's usual 2-years album cycle deal, it had potential to be something really special I think, maybe if more time was spent on the concept and also if it was cut significantly shorter, like 1 CD would have done it just fine.

I didn't get the "fly-whatever" part, but I don't care.. It's my opinion.. And if you don't like it, good for you.. But I think you just proved my opinion is controversial, otherwise you wouldn't have reacted like it was the end of the world... son.. ;)
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8600 on: November 09, 2018, 10:16:36 AM »
I've only got one opinion on DT that people consider "controversial" and I posted it here a long time ago but I wanted to say that I was reading through the last couple of pages out of boredom and saw someone saying Ravenskill was a favorite. I realized I don't know which one is that, I've almost never heard separate songs from The Astonishing, always listened to it in it's entirety. I can tell the singles and the first few songs up until Three Days, I remember Heaven's Cove and The Path That Divides but otherwise all the other song titles don't ring any bells for me, I need to fix that problem heh
Like this long ass section from when Faythe decided to go look for Gabriel until her brother goes to threaten Xander, is the second biggest snooze, I don't know how many songs is that stretch, it feels like 4 songs but it's probably 2 or 3 max.

That is a stretch there for like 3 or 4 songs that start out all slow.  Like Ravenskill does as well, but then gets much heavier and interesting.  I feel that's a legit flaw of TA, it comes off as a lot of really slow soft music.

That stretch is, by far, my favorite part of the album.  And Ravenskill is probably my favorite song.  Top 3 for sure.  The cool riff to start of the heavy part is one of my favorite DT riffs of all time.  It is almost criminal neglect that it disappears after only like 20 seconds.  It bugs to so much that I even emailed JP about it awhile back, and he responded back by laughing and saying that maybe they'll have to do The Astonishing 2 so he can revisit the riff and make it up to me.  :lol
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8601 on: November 09, 2018, 10:18:31 AM »
Awake is a far superior album to Images And Words. The album improved and upgraded everything Images and Words got right. From the production, to the songs, to the jams. It's the prog fans "Prog" album. All members are on top form on this album, and has some of LaBries sickests performances, and not to forget Portnoy, his drumming is so virtuoso and fun! Kevin Moore really shines lyrically in this album; Scarred and Space Dye Vest are among the best DT songs ever written. Voices, Lifting Shadows, 6:00, this album like Images and Words has zero duds in the tracklist. Def a top 3 DT album in my book. Hell, Top 2.

I don't agree, but I also don't think it's really controversial to say Awake > I&W.

More controversial would be the statement that SDV is "among the best DT songs ever written."

I'm not sure how controversial the "no duds" statement is, but I'm of the opinion that "Innocence Faded" is one of the biggest clunkers in the band's catalog, and I also don't really like "Lie" or "The Mirror."  If those three songs were removed, Awake would be pretty close to a perfect album.


TA is their best Mangini-era album, and since someone here above said as controversial opinion that he thinks Awake is better than I&W, not only that I agree with him, but I consider TA to be easily better than those two... and better than SFAM too..

Now these are controversial opinions!


This doesn't really apply to DT much, but I find most odd-time-signature changes to be dumb. Like you're purposefully trying to emulate a skipping CD.

Huh?!

I've never heard an odd time signature change that sounded like the artist was "purposefully trying to emulate a skipping CD" (or vinyl record).  Does the chorus of "Roundabout" or the middle section of "Tom Sawyer" or the main riff of Pink Floyd's "Money" sound like a skipping CD to you?

Money has the same time signature throughout, it's not an odd time signature change  :smiley:

Even putting aside the issue of 7/4 versus alternating 4/4 and 3/4, "Money" most certainly does not have "the same time signature throughout."  Even if you consider the main parts of the song to be in 7/4, the guitar solo and ending sections are in 4/4.
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8602 on: November 09, 2018, 08:51:23 PM »
That is not a controversial opinion son, that is a get-slapped-with-a-fly-swatter opinion.
TA is good, it's better than the self titled, FII & WDADU IMO, maybe even better than BS&SL, but that's as far a stretch as it goes.
When TA is good, it's brilliant, but it has huge chunks of lame, spread through out. It's very unbalanced and it fails to accomplish what it sets out to do conceptually. I've said it before but TA needed more than DT's usual 2-years album cycle deal, it had potential to be something really special I think, maybe if more time was spent on the concept and also if it was cut significantly shorter, like 1 CD would have done it just fine.

I didn't get the "fly-whatever" part, but I don't care.. It's my opinion.. And if you don't like it, good for you.. But I think you just proved my opinion is controversial, otherwise you wouldn't have reacted like it was the end of the world... son.. ;)

Just messin' with ya son :biggrin:
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Offline ToT-147

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8603 on: November 12, 2018, 09:39:59 AM »
That's exactly the problem..
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8604 on: November 12, 2018, 04:51:06 PM »
That is not a controversial opinion son, that is a get-slapped-with-a-fly-swatter opinion.
TA is good, it's better than the self titled, FII & WDADU IMO, maybe even better than BS&SL, but that's as far a stretch as it goes.
When TA is good, it's brilliant, but it has huge chunks of lame, spread through out. It's very unbalanced and it fails to accomplish what it sets out to do conceptually. I've said it before but TA needed more than DT's usual 2-years album cycle deal, it had potential to be something really special I think, maybe if more time was spent on the concept and also if it was cut significantly shorter, like 1 CD would have done it just fine.

I didn't get the "fly-whatever" part, but I don't care.. It's my opinion.. And if you don't like it, good for you.. But I think you just proved my opinion is controversial, otherwise you wouldn't have reacted like it was the end of the world... son.. ;)

Just messin' with ya son :biggrin:

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Offline Ninjabait

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8605 on: November 12, 2018, 06:06:50 PM »
On the subject of The Astonishing, I have a super controversial one too: The Astonishing is their best album. I even like it better than SFaM, 8varium, SDoIT, ADToE, ToT, Awake, and I&W. I'm really bummed they didn't do a live DVD/CD version of it with a live orchestra/choir. Something similar to Epica's The Classical Conspiracy or Within Temptation's Black Symphony

Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8606 on: November 13, 2018, 11:46:44 AM »
On the subject of The Astonishing, I have a super controversial one too: The Astonishing is their best album. I even like it better than SFaM, 8varium, SDoIT, ADToE, ToT, Awake, and I&W. I'm really bummed they didn't do a live DVD/CD version of it with a live orchestra/choir. Something similar to Epica's The Classical Conspiracy or Within Temptation's Black Symphony

I agree, but would like to add; The Astonishing is one of my favorite *things* of all time. Not just Dream Theater albums, or albums in general. I mean when I combine music and movies and video games, and books... it is as the top of my list.

 I just carry so many positive thoughts around with me because of The Astonishing, that I'll forever appreciate it and Dream Theater.

Offline Sebastián Pratesi

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8607 on: November 13, 2018, 12:36:35 PM »
I agree, but would like to add; The Astonishing is one of my favorite *things* of all time. Not just Dream Theater albums, or albums in general. I mean when I combine music and movies and video games, and books... it is as the top of my list.

 I just carry so many positive thoughts around with me because of The Astonishing, that I'll forever appreciate it and Dream Theater.
Nice to hear! I share the same passion as you for the album. It's great that, as you get older and start appreciating more delicate and 'poppier' types of music, DT releases 2 hours of exactly that. The outro in "Begin again" particularly stands out to me.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8608 on: November 13, 2018, 12:40:42 PM »
I consider myself one of the biggest fans of The Astonishing, and even I don't go that far in my consideration of that album :lol glad to see that it's sincerely and immensely appreciated also elsewhere!
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #8609 on: November 13, 2018, 01:23:19 PM »
Controversial opinion (and most of you will disagree with me on this): The Great Debate is the best song on SDOIT Disc 1.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."