Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Evai]

The only 'bad' moment in the entirety of DT's discography is the rap section in Prophets Of War. Sure, ADToE might be bland 'metal-by-numbers', but it's at least passable 

[Dublagent66]

Eh, I can do without FFH and BTS for that matter.  WFS is awesome, but I don't really consider it to be a stand alone ballad.  It's more of a prelude or intro to LTL.  SDV never really ranked high in my book until the BTFW version came along.  Love it now.  I don't think any DT ballad is better than SDV by a HUGE margin even if some are better.

[LCArenas]

It's been eight years, and my current opinion on MP's leaving is that it improved the band's creative output, and that MM has been a compelling drummer so far. At that point in Portnoy's career (Having so many side-projects in mind while the rest of DT just allowed themselves a few contributions on songs or solo albums) leaving was the most sensible thing to do.

However, his commitment to the fans and his live presence are unmatchable, and I still miss him in the band mainly because of that.

[bosk1]

Eh, I can do without FFH and BTS for that matter.  WFS is awesome, but I don't really consider it to be a stand alone ballad.  It's more of a prelude or intro to LTL.  SDV never really ranked high in my book until the BTFW version came along.  Love it now.  I don't think any DT ballad is better than SDV by a HUGE margin even if some are better.

Even though the differences were fairly subtle in the grand scheme of things, I really enjoy that live version of SDV, even though the studio version is way down near the bottom of the DT discography for me.

[erwinrafael]

Since this is the thread of controversial opinions, what MP-era song does Mangini drum better than Portnoy?

Panic Attack
Take The Time
Scarred
The Dark Eternal Night

And by the time The Images and Word and Beyond Tour hit Asia, Mangini had already nailed Hell's Kitchen.

[nikatapi]

Since this is the thread of controversial opinions, what MP-era song does Mangini drum better than Portnoy?

Panic Attack
Take The Time
Scarred
The Dark Eternal Night

And by the time The Images and Word and Beyond Tour hit Asia, Mangini had already nailed Hell's Kitchen.

Even though i love MM, playing HK with the hi-hats instead of ride cymbal (intro groove) will never make me accept that he nailed it.

[Zook]

I think Space Dye Vest is awesome regardless of it being Kevin's swan song. It's DT's big, somber, majestic piano ballad. What's another piano ballad from DT that comes close? Anna Lee? nah, nice song but not in the same league as SDV. Vacant? too short. Far from Heaven? too late in their carrer to become a classic. Space Dye Vest is the ultimate piano ballad from DT.

Every single one of those songs is better than SDV by a HUGE margin.  And Wait For Sleep is better than them all.

And Strange Deja Vu is better than every single one of those songs.

[gzarruk]

Since this is the thread of controversial opinions, what MP-era song does Mangini drum better than Portnoy?

Panic Attack
Take The Time
Scarred
The Dark Eternal Night

And by the time The Images and Word and Beyond Tour hit Asia, Mangini had already nailed Hell's Kitchen.

Under a Glass Moon
Metropolis
Endless Sacrifice
Lifting Shadows off a Dream
And, ironically, The Shattered Fortress

[Max Kuehnau]

Since this is the thread of controversial opinions, what MP-era song does Mangini drum better than Portnoy?

Panic Attack
Take The Time
Scarred
The Dark Eternal Night

And by the time The Images and Word and Beyond Tour hit Asia, Mangini had already nailed Hell's Kitchen.

no all of them. That's all I'll say. (technically and musically)

[nattmorker]

Since this is the thread of controversial opinions, what MP-era song does Mangini drum better than Portnoy?

Panic Attack
Take The Time
Scarred
The Dark Eternal Night

And by the time The Images and Word and Beyond Tour hit Asia, Mangini had already nailed Hell's Kitchen.

Under a Glass Moon
Metropolis
Endless Sacrifice
Lifting Shadows off a Dream
And, ironically, The Shattered Fortress

Yeah, his playing in TSF on BTFW was amazing!

[bosk1]

I dunno.  I hate to use "better" in comparing the two.  They are both off the charts. 

[Max Kuehnau]

Technical perfection and precision are measurable. You could compare them in these terms. Not everyone will though. IMHO, better technique always "wins". There you go.

[ToT-147]

Since this is the thread of controversial opinions, what MP-era song does Mangini drum better than Portnoy?

Panic Attack
Take The Time
Scarred
The Dark Eternal Night

And by the time The Images and Word and Beyond Tour hit Asia, Mangini had already nailed Hell's Kitchen.

I don't know about the others, but MM absolutely ruined the best part of TDEN (from 4:50-4:59 fyi), so I wouldn't say he plays it any better than Portnoy..

To me, they're different.. And I don't actually prefer one over the other, at least regarding only the playing aspect..

[bosk1]

Technical perfection and precision are measurable. You could compare them in these terms. Not everyone will though. IMHO, better technique always "wins". There you go.

Yes, technical perfection and precision are measurable.  But neither of those necessarily mean that the more perfect technician is a better drummer or played a song "better."  So there you go.

[The Walrus]

Nah, but I also think Mangini plays better than Portnoy does nowadays 

Fight! Fight!

[pg1067]

I dunno.  I hate to use "better" in comparing the two.  They are both off the charts.

This.  I couldn't even tell you how MM plays anything differently than MP.  While I'm sure I have noticed differences when I've seen DT live, nothing has ever been so significant so as to have stuck with me, and I really can't conceive paying so much attention to only one element of the band.

[Dublagent66]

Eh, I can do without FFH and BTS for that matter.  WFS is awesome, but I don't really consider it to be a stand alone ballad.  It's more of a prelude or intro to LTL.  SDV never really ranked high in my book until the BTFW version came along.  Love it now.  I don't think any DT ballad is better than SDV by a HUGE margin even if some are better.

Even though the differences were fairly subtle in the grand scheme of things, I really enjoy that live version of SDV, even though the studio version is way down near the bottom of the DT discography for me.

Yeah, I suppose the same would apply to most of us regarding Hollow Years studio compared to the L@B version.  My fav being the latter.

[bosk1]

I am quite firmly in the minority that feel that that version did little to elevate it.  On the rare occasion that I watch or listen to L@B, I usually skip it.

[Dublagent66]

 

[Volante99]

MM playing Scarred better than MP?? Crazy talk.

Listen to how MP plays the solo section of that song live on Chaos in Motion. Now listen to the same section on the Breaking the Fourth Wall.

MM might be playing more in perfect time, and more “album accurate” but other than that MP plays this with so much more dynamic and musicality. I get that a lot of this is personal preference but to me the difference is night and day and I defy anyone to tell me MM plays that better with more excitement than Portnoy.

[bosk1]

Listen to how MP plays the solo section of that song live on Chaos in Motion. Now listen to the same section on the Astonishing.

[Volante99]

Listen to how MP plays the solo section of that song live on Chaos in Motion. Now listen to the same section on the Astonishing.

Is there a question there? If you don’t notice a difference I don’t know what to tell ya

[bosk1]

I don't understand what you are trying to say.  Hence the: 

[mikeyd23]

Listen to how MP plays the solo section of that song live on Chaos in Motion. Now listen to the same section on the Astonishing.

Is there a question there? If you don’t notice a difference I don’t know what to tell ya

I think he's eluding to the fact that Scarred isn't on The Astonishing.

[Volante99]

Ah I meant Breaking the Fourth Wall for Mangini’s version of the song. Fail

[Dublagent66]

MM playing Scarred better than MP?? Crazy talk.

Listen to how MP plays the solo section of that song live on Chaos in Motion. Now listen to the same section on the Astonishing.

I don't remember Scarred being on The Astonishing. 

Ah I meant Breaking the Third Wall for Mangini’s version of the song. Fail

It's not on the 3rd wall either.   

[Volante99]

Sorry guys, my brain isn’t right today.

[bosk1]

I thought you were trying to compare Mangini's playing on The Astonishing to Portnoy's playing on Scarred, which seemed odd already, but then you said "the same section," which totally threw me.  Okay, I get where you are coming from.  Well, now that that's sorted out... 

I haven't listened to CiM in ages, and even when it was new, I only listened a few times.  So off the top of my head, I can't really comment on Scarred.  But I do know I love the version on BTFW. 

[KevShmev]

I am quite firmly in the minority that feel that that version did little to elevate it.  On the rare occasion that I watch or listen to L@B, I usually skip it.

Even though JP overplays the crap out of the solo, I've come around to liking that live version of Hollow Years quite a bit, but the studio version is still way better.

Listen to how MP plays the solo section of that song live on Chaos in Motion. 

Listen to Chaos in Motion??  Oh, I'm not falling for that one.

[ToT-147]

MM might be playing more in perfect time, and more “album accurate” but other than that MP plays this with so much more dynamic and musicality.

And that accuracy is both mandatory and helped by the fact that they play to a click.. I'm sure if DT would've played to a click in MP's days, he would've nailed it too..

[Evai]

Most of the percieved differences are due to the volume of MM's drums being mixed quieter than MP's. The psychological effect of louder = better reigns supreme.  That's why something like the drum break of 'In The Air Tonight' is so revered, it's nothing special, it's just mixed LOUD

[ToT-147]

I don't agree with that.. I don't like MP's drumming because his drums were loud, but because I like it.. In fact, it bothers and distracts me a lot when the drums are high just for the sake of it..

Animals as Leaders and Metallica are good examples, much more because they're so different bands but in both the drums, while being awesome, are unnecessarily very loud in the mix.. The worst thing about loud drums is that the bass becomes almost inaudible.. I know AaL doesn't have bass, but Metallica and similar bands do... I mean, it'd be cool to hear at least one note played by Trujillo in the last couple of albums (or by Myung in the MP era for that matter)..

[Adami]

Most of the percieved differences are due to the volume of MM's drums being mixed quieter than MP's. The psychological effect of louder = better reigns supreme.  That's why something like the drum break of 'In The Air Tonight' is so revered, it's nothing special, it's just mixed LOUD

No. The perceived difference is that they play quite differently from each.

[mikeyd23]

Most of the percieved differences are due to the volume of MM's drums being mixed quieter than MP's. The psychological effect of louder = better reigns supreme.  That's why something like the drum break of 'In The Air Tonight' is so revered, it's nothing special, it's just mixed LOUD

No. The perceived difference is that they play quite differently from each.

I agree Adami, but I also think part of the perceived difference definitely has something to do with the drum sounds on the MM records vs the MP records, volume included.

[Adami]

Most of the percieved differences are due to the volume of MM's drums being mixed quieter than MP's. The psychological effect of louder = better reigns supreme.  That's why something like the drum break of 'In The Air Tonight' is so revered, it's nothing special, it's just mixed LOUD

No. The perceived difference is that they play quite differently from each.

I agree Adami, but I also think part of the perceived difference definitely has something to do with the drum sounds on the MM records vs the MP records, volume included.

The perceived difference in volume is due to volume. The perceived difference in style and preference is due to a difference in style in preference. I just don't like this narrative of "Well if you don't like MM's drumming, it's cause of the recording/volume and it can't POSSIBLY because you don't like what he's doing."