Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[gzarruk]

SC would like a word with you.

SC is infinitely better than Black Clouds...

[axeman90210]

Systematic Chaos starts out solid (if unspectacular) for me, but then we get to Repentance and that song just drags a little too long. Prophets of War has some decent riffage, but the lyrics make me Then we get to TMOLS and that song should be prescribed to insomniacs.

[Cool Chris]

Lyrically BC&SL is garbage, but musically it’s awesome.

Is that actually controversial? I thought that was a common thought here.

[Trav86]

The entire Mangini era is better than most of the pre-Mangini era.

[ChuckSteak]

The entire Mangini era is better than most of the pre-Mangini era.

Now that's controversial.

[NoseofNicko]

Lyrically BC&SL is garbage, but musically it’s awesome.

Is that actually controversial? I thought that was a common thought here.

I wasn’t implying it was a controversial opinion, it was just a response to someone who said they loved the album.

[gzarruk]

The entire Mangini era is better than most of the pre-Mangini era.

Now that's controversial.

I actually agree with this.

[Evai]

I mean, The Astonishing is great, but can it really hold up to the combined force of all the pre-MM albums?

[MirrorMask]

I mean, The Astonishing is great, but can it really hold up to the combined force of all the pre-MM albums?

Put shortly, no. Images and Words + Awake + SFAM alone is an awesome beast impossible to slay.

[Trav86]

I said most, not all.

[mikeyd23]

Yeah, I hold the MM stuff in pretty high regard, but seeing how my top three DT albums are pre-MM, that's my favorite era I guess.

[Trav86]

For context...

Images and Words
Awake
The Astonishing
A Dramatic Turn of Events
Dream Theater
Falling into infinity
Scenes From a Memory
When Dream and Day Unite
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Train of Thought
Octavarium
Systematic Chaos
Black Clouds and Silver Linings

[AngelBack]

For context...

Images and Words
Awake
The Astonishing
A Dramatic Turn of Events
Dream Theater
Falling into infinity
Scenes From a Memory
When Dream and Day Unite
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Train of Thought
Octavarium
Systematic Chaos
Black Clouds and Silver Linings

Interesting.  If you rate all on 1-10 scale then take the average of the Pre-MM vs. MM era, what would it look like?

[bosk1]

I would put the consistency of ADTOE and DT12 above most and possibly all of the pre-Mangini albums, and would put the out there on a limb coolness of TA right up there with most of the pre-Mangini albums too.  But in terms of just sheer quantity of quality, there's too much awesomeness in the pre-Maingini era.  But call me back in 10 years and ask me again. 

[gzarruk]

To me, MM era albums > WDADU, FII, TOT, OV, SC and BC&SL. That’s 6 out of 10 albums with MP = most of them.

[Indiscipline]

We are 10 albums to 3 in the eras comparison rosters. I'm more than willing to wait for the next 7 albums to give a fair judgement.

So far my personal podium:

1. Images&Words / The Astonishing
2. Scenes from a Memory
3. A Dramatic Turn of Events / DT12

[Dublagent66]

Lyrically BC&SL is garbage, but musically it’s awesome.

Is that actually controversial? I thought that was a common thought here.

It probably is a common thought but most people don't actually say "garbage" when they post.

I mean, The Astonishing is great, but can it really hold up to the combined force of all the pre-MM albums?

No...and no.

We are 10 albums to 3 in the eras comparison rosters. I'm more than willing to wait for the next 7 albums to give a fair judgement.

So far my personal podium:

1. Images&Words / The Astonishing
2. Scenes from a Memory
3. A Dramatic Turn of Events / DT12

No idea what that list means.

[bosk1]

Lyrically BC&SL is garbage, but musically it’s awesome.

Is that actually controversial? I thought that was a common thought here.

It probably is a common thought but most people don't actually say "garbage" when they post.

Good point, and I missed that before.  But Nicko, it goes without saying that that is crossing the line and breaking forum rules.  You need to watch your tone in voicing your likes/dislikes.

[Indiscipline]

We are 10 albums to 3 in the eras comparison rosters. I'm more than willing to wait for the next 7 albums to give a fair judgement.

So far my personal podium:

1. Images&Words / The Astonishing
2. Scenes from a Memory
3. A Dramatic Turn of Events / DT12

No idea what that list means.

Positions 1 and 3 feature ex-aequo albums.

[Trav86]

For context...

Images and Words
Awake
The Astonishing
A Dramatic Turn of Events
Dream Theater
Falling into infinity
Scenes From a Memory
When Dream and Day Unite
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Train of Thought
Octavarium
Systematic Chaos
Black Clouds and Silver Linings

Interesting.  If you rate all on 1-10 scale then take the average of the Pre-MM vs. MM era, what would it look like?

Pre MM 8.40
MM 8.83

[AngelBack]

I came out with a similar difference in averages although a little lower for both groups.  A few higher
"highs" for the pre MM but more lower ratings for pre MM as well.

[pg1067]

SC would like a word with you.

SC is infinitely better than Black Clouds...

You spelled "worse" wrong.

As far as the MM albums versus the pre-MM albums (and without digging up whatever my last effort to rank DT's catalog was), I would say that I rank ADToE and DT12 higher than WDaDU, FII, SC and BC&SL but probably not as high as any of the others.  The Astonishing gets a DNF because I haven't been able to get through it enough times to have a fair opinion about it.

[MetropolisWatches]

SC would like a word with you.

SC is infinitely better than Black Clouds...

- SC has aged well ('Prophets of War' is still lame) and is way better than BC&SL. On paper BC&SL seems 'better' and more like a quintessential DT release, but almost every song falls flat. As far as I'm concerned, 'Count of Tuscany' saved that album.

- The guitar solo on 'Repentance' is one of the best in the entire DT discography.

- 'Surrender to Reason' and 'The Bigger Picture' are criminally underrated. Melodic, progressive, heavy- with no extended jamming or solo sections. They would have been loved if included on older DT albums.

[MetropolisWatches]

My controversial opinion on DT: They still make good music.

Every music site I go to everyone is saying they suck and they haven’t made a decent album since Portnoy left and they should stop making music.

Preach!

The last three albums have been fantastic- and overall they blow SC and BC&SL out of the water (BC&SL is likely my least favorite DT release).

I can vividly remember the Systematic Chaos / BC&SL era (2006-2010) where the band was mercilessly mocked online by many detractors and scorned long-time fans. Due to his strong creative influence, there was a mass consensus Portnoy was dragging the band down. People felt DT had gravitated to more self-indulgent, metal oriented music with less of an emphasis on prog and melody. Portnoy then leaves and the band go on to write three strong albums that are more melodic and in touch with their prog roots-- and everyone still complains. Some people will never be satisfied.

[ReaperKK]

SC would like a word with you.

SC is infinitely better than Black Clouds...

- SC has aged well ('Prophets of War' is still lame) and is way better than BC&SL. On paper BC&SL seems 'better' and more like a quintessential DT release, but almost every song falls flat. As far as I'm concerned, 'Count of Tuscany' saved that album.

- The guitar solo on 'Repentance' is one of the best in the entire DT discography.

- 'Surrender to Reason' and 'The Bigger Picture' are criminally underrated. Melodic, progressive, heavy- with no extended jamming or solo sections. They would have been loved if included on older DT albums.

I was luke warm on SC when it first came out but it's moved it's way up to a top 3 album.

[geeeemo]

I really like Awake... but I really like FII much better! 1 song on it I don't like YNM.

Also, IAW is not in my top 5. 

[ToT-147]

Also, IAW is not in my top 5. 

Actually, as great as the album really is, it doesn't appear in my top 10...

And BC&SL is the best album they've done after the one in my username..

[bosk1]

Not including any of their albums not named When Dream and Day Unite, I agree that BCSL is their best album.

[gzarruk]

Also, IAW is not in my top 5. 

Actually, as great as the album really is, it doesn't appear in my top 10...

And BC&SL is the best album they've done after the one in my username..

I know we can all have our opinions and preferences... but you’re just wrong

[Bertielee]

Not including any of their albums not named When Dream and Day Unite, I agree that BCSL is their best album.

The same for me!

B.Lee

[Evai]

Ahh, I read that post too quickly and thought I'd finally found people to agree with    BCSL is the only DT album that grabbed me on the first listen (besides TA). Usually it takes a few listens and then I start getting into it.

[bosk1]

It really grabbed me at first listen as well.  It just didn't last, unfortunately.  I still really love ANTR and TSF, and I like TCOT a fair amount as well.  But as an album, it just isn't a favorite.

[pg1067]

It really grabbed me at first listen as well.  It just didn't last, unfortunately.  I still really love ANTR and TSF, and I like TCOT a fair amount as well.  But as an album, it just isn't a favorite.

I'm probably due to revisit BC&SL.  ANtR and ARoP are largely unmemorable.  I love Wither and like TSF (none of the 12SS songs are favorites of mine).  TBoT drags the whole album down, and TCoT is great, although flawed.  Ultimately, when the ballad/"hit single" is the most consistently enjoyable song, the album isn't going to rank very high (but it's better than its predecessor).

[erwinrafael]

The problem of BC&SL is that the songs are just too long. It is a tiring listen.

[MirrorMask]

The problem of BC&SL is that the songs are just too long. It is a tiring listen.

It's the album that needed the most a producer to suggest more cohesive songs. All the songs have moments that I like a lot. As a whole, there's a little something here and there that is amiss.

A Nightmare to Remember is great but loses the plot after the Beautiful Agony section, a producer could have found a way. A Rite of Passage is cool but has the mandatory (for that era) copy and paste solo that derails the song. The Count of Tuscany is fine as it is but a couple of moments here and there could have been trimmed. The songs are there, the bloat and the unnecessary is also there as well unfortunately.