Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 979486 times)

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Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7770 on: May 06, 2017, 06:26:50 AM »
I"m listening through the entire DT discography at the moment and just got to Six Degrees and here are my thoughts so far:

- Awake really didn't age well, probably the worst album of the 90's
- It's a shame "The Way It Used To Be" didn't make it on a official album because that is a Top 5 DT song and their best pop oriented song.

Offline Zook

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7771 on: May 06, 2017, 08:06:58 AM »
I"m listening through the entire DT discography at the moment and just got to Six Degrees and here are my thoughts so far:

- Awake really didn't age well, probably the worst album of the 90's

no u

Offline JayOctavarium

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7772 on: May 06, 2017, 08:56:55 AM »
I"m listening through the entire DT discography at the moment and just got to Six Degrees and here are my thoughts so far:

- Awake really didn't age well, probably the worst album of the 90's

no u
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline SeRoX

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7773 on: May 06, 2017, 10:05:24 AM »
I know it's controversial but come on! Awake is the best them!  :metal
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7774 on: May 06, 2017, 10:23:21 AM »
I"m listening through the entire DT discography at the moment and just got to Six Degrees and here are my thoughts so far:

- Awake really didn't age well, probably the worst album of the 90's
- It's a shame "The Way It Used To Be" didn't make it on a official album because that is a Top 5 DT song and their best pop oriented song.

I started doing the same exact thing a few days ago, wanted to listen to the whole catalog again, in chronological order, to see how my opinions/ranking of them would change. I've almost finished listening TOT. However, I don't really agree with what you posted  :lol

Some things I noticed listening up to this point:

- Used to like FII more, but listening to all of it again made me realize it drags on some parts. It has some great moments on it, but some other things just don't work as well.

- Also, looks like it was on this album where MP developed his own "signature" sound/playing. On all the previous albums his approach to drumming was different and varied from album to album, while still sounding like MP. FII looks, to me, like the abum where he found the style he liked and just stopped exploring his drumming after it. Though, I enjoy his drumming on Awake/ACOS much more, specially his use of the octobans. FII sounds like he used the same tricks on almost all the songs. It gets tiring after a while.

- SFAM and SDOIT are probably the best albums of their catalog, and definitely the best up to this point (imo). It seemed like that lineup could only make perfect abums like these, but TOT started a downfall imo. To me, listening to an album like TOT after the masterpiece that is SDOIT is a huge disappointment. They completely under-used Jordan, who had insanely good moments on both SFAM and SDOIT (his playing is one of the main aspects why I think these two albums are that good), and had him relegated to mostly doubling the guitar on many songs and playing a few leads/solos .
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7775 on: May 06, 2017, 11:39:35 AM »
I agree with MP not evolving much past FII

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7776 on: May 06, 2017, 12:38:53 PM »
I know it's controversial but come on! Awake is the best them!  :metal

Nah Awake is boring after the opening 3 songs.

Offline jakepriest

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7777 on: May 06, 2017, 12:43:30 PM »
I know it's controversial but come on! Awake is the best them!  :metal

Nah Awake is boring after the opening 3 songs.

The album actually gets good after the sixth song ends.

Offline Zook

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7778 on: May 06, 2017, 12:47:40 PM »
Awake is good all the way through, although it loses a bit of steam at Space Dye Vest.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7779 on: May 06, 2017, 12:48:29 PM »
Awake is good all the way through, although it loses a bit of steam at Space Dye Vest.

I think you're being too kind. I'll say that the album becomes completely unlistenable after Space Dye Vest.
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7780 on: May 06, 2017, 01:00:57 PM »

Offline Zook

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7781 on: May 06, 2017, 01:18:55 PM »
Awake is good all the way through, although it loses a bit of steam at Space Dye Vest.

I think you're being too kind. I'll say that the album becomes completely unlistenable after Space Dye Vest.

What you did there. I see it.

Offline gzarruk

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7782 on: May 06, 2017, 01:55:20 PM »
I agree with MP not evolving much past FII

He became the good drummer version of Lars Ulrich  :lol :biggrin:
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7783 on: May 06, 2017, 02:04:54 PM »
Really? I mean he had a style, which is not a bad thing, but I'd say he largely stopped evolving after 6DOIT. There was some really creative new stuff on that album.
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Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7784 on: May 06, 2017, 02:11:33 PM »
I think the one thing with MP is his style really fit with the band so it wasn't a big deal that he didn't really keep evolving. I BC&SL was the first album where I thought it was time for him to shake it up.

Online mikeyd23

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7785 on: May 06, 2017, 03:43:01 PM »
I've said before FII is where the "MP" sound was really established, IMO. From there, I'd say he improved upon that with SFAM and SDOIT, with SDOIT probably being his peak work for me. After that he didn't expand much and typically tended to rely on the same feels and fills.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7786 on: May 06, 2017, 04:15:14 PM »
I agree with MP not evolving much past FII

He became the good drummer version of Lars Ulrich  :lol :biggrin:

Snare sound aside - Lars is really creative on St. Anger. Watch the DVD of that album - he's firing on all cylinders.

He plays with fire on St. Anger. On Death Magnetic he is actually a lot less creative and his limitations are showing. On Hardwired he went back to Black Album drumming

and played for the song.

Offline TAC

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7787 on: May 06, 2017, 07:55:13 PM »
Watching the St Anger DVD  :tup
Listening to the St Anger CD  :tdwn
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Online MirrorMask

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7788 on: May 07, 2017, 03:11:32 AM »
A thread about CONTROVERSIAL opinions is the only one where I can live with any criticism towards Awake  :lol :biggrin:

Brilliant album through and through.
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Offline bill1971

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7789 on: May 07, 2017, 07:11:09 AM »
Couldn't agree less about Awake. Possibly my favorite DT album but that's the beauty of music, it hits different people different ways.

Interesting take on MP's drumming. He still had some great drum parts but even as he said he doesn't like to practice and it started to show. Drummers like Peart and Mangini continue to improve and to push themselves.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7790 on: May 07, 2017, 08:57:38 AM »
I think the chorus is fine, but the verse sections I agree let down an otherwise incredible song. The opening instrumental in particular I think ranks up there with anything else they've done, as does that outro.

My mistake. I was not referring to TCOT's chorus but rather the prechorus.

And the vocal melody of the verse section to my ears really sounds very similar to JLB's Crucified.

Offline JayOctavarium

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7791 on: May 07, 2017, 09:14:22 AM »
Here's one.

There hasn't been a section of a DT song in a while that made me go "OH SHIT HERE IT COMES". Like... If I ever see The Glass Prison live, the beginning of the second section (the chugging and the psuedo "turn table" shit) would make me go nuts. Same with the "Day After Day ROOOOARRRR" section of A Nightmare To Remember.

I miss the anticipation.



I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline Evai

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7792 on: May 07, 2017, 09:46:07 AM »
I hope they continue in the same direction as The Astonishing. I don't mean specifically in style, more along the lines of experimenting and trying stuff. The two albums before it were just a bore 'playing it safe please the fans, it's not bad but it's not good either'-fest
Jordan took Moore's boring, pedestrian parts and elevated them considerably to take them from barely palatable to stellar.

Offline jakepriest

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7793 on: May 07, 2017, 12:09:05 PM »
I hope they continue in the same direction as The Astonishing. I don't mean specifically in style, more along the lines of experimenting and trying stuff. The two albums before it were just a bore 'playing it safe please the fans, it's not bad but it's not good either'-fest

ADTOE is one of their best albums, so I disagree that it was a bore.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7794 on: May 07, 2017, 01:27:43 PM »
I hope they continue in the same direction as The Astonishing. I don't mean specifically in style, more along the lines of experimenting and trying stuff. The two albums before it were just a bore 'playing it safe please the fans, it's not bad but it's not good either'-fest

ADTOE is one of their best albums, so I disagree that it was a bore.

It was certainly a lot better than the two that preceded it.

Offline TAC

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7795 on: May 07, 2017, 01:34:13 PM »
Agreed.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Evai

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7796 on: May 07, 2017, 02:45:19 PM »
But... BCASL has actual interesting songs. ADTOE is more background music to put on while you do something else. I suppose it's better for driving, or if you're with friends and want to put something inoffensive on. Whereas with BCASL, the prog-fan might blush when an interesting part comes on and rush to change the CD
Jordan took Moore's boring, pedestrian parts and elevated them considerably to take them from barely palatable to stellar.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7797 on: May 07, 2017, 02:46:51 PM »
Black Clouds has A Nightmare to Remember and Rite of Passage...




Dramatic Turn does not.



Offline Evai

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7798 on: May 07, 2017, 02:50:04 PM »
Rite of Passage is the only (arguably) 'weak' song on that album. ADTOE has eight
Jordan took Moore's boring, pedestrian parts and elevated them considerably to take them from barely palatable to stellar.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7799 on: May 07, 2017, 02:59:06 PM »
Rite of Passage is the only (arguably) 'weak' song on that album. ADTOE has eight

Eight ? Please list them.

The Best Of Times is saved by the solo. Nightmare is far too long and has THAT vocal section. Wither is good. A Rite of Passage is kinda throwaway... Shattered Fortress is just a medley.

Count of Tuscany is the best song on the album for me.

Oh and TCOT verse riff is the best riff on the album.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7800 on: May 07, 2017, 03:10:36 PM »
But... BCASL has actual interesting songs. ADTOE is more background music to put on while you do something else. I suppose it's better for driving, or if you're with friends and want to put something inoffensive on. Whereas with BCASL, the prog-fan might blush when an interesting part comes on and rush to change the CD

What does that even mean?

Offline Evai

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7801 on: May 07, 2017, 03:23:38 PM »
Rite of Passage is the only (arguably) 'weak' song on that album. ADTOE has eight

Eight ? Please list them.

The Best Of Times is saved by the solo. Nightmare is far too long and has THAT vocal section. Wither is good. A Rite of Passage is kinda throwaway... Shattered Fortress is just a medley.

Count of Tuscany is the best song on the album for me.

Oh and TCOT verse riff is the best riff on the album.

Okay, here's my personal problem; there's not much variety within each song, I can barely remember anything besides the choruses of each song. I'd probably like Build Me Up, Break Me Down, but all I think of is this - https://youtu.be/iP6XpLQM2Cs?t=135 . Feels like scraping the bottom of the barrel... Beneath The Surface and Far From Heaven are pretty cool ballads though! Also bear in mind I'm a new fan; I listened to all the albums for the first time last year and loved all of them until ADTOE, sadly.
Jordan took Moore's boring, pedestrian parts and elevated them considerably to take them from barely palatable to stellar.

Offline jakepriest

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7802 on: May 07, 2017, 05:07:06 PM »
How the heck is BMU,BMD (whether you like it or not) similar to bloody Kesha?  :lol

No variety within each song?
LNF has the (love it or hate it) wank intro and then I guess it gets kinda samey and overly long for my taste, I'll give you that.
BITS has probably the best riff on the album and one of DT's best choruses + an amazing instrumental section.
Ouctry has the crazy instrumental and a sweet soft part right after it.
I won't even have to comment on BAI. If you say that song has no variety, wat?
BTS is a ballad, and there's still something to look forward to in James' vocal delivery of the last chorus.

Saying there is no variety within each song is a pretty weird arguement. Even though they are progressive, most DT songs follow a basic A-B-A-B-instrumental-B-outro structure, so you could apply this logic to basically any album. That's like complaining that there are verses and choruses in a song.

Offline Evai

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7803 on: May 07, 2017, 05:19:23 PM »
Okay, I'm looking over the lyrics to BOI, and... I think if it was 90's James, singing it at such a high pitch that it sounds awesome, it would work for me. But James sings lower now, and lower, less intense singing brings more attention to the lyrics, and storytelling aspects of it. Because it's more like speech. 'New realities, singularities, breaking all illusions' as a verse just sounds insincere (not gonna use the word 'pretentious'... ) Who talks like that? This is also why The Astonishing works so well.
Jordan took Moore's boring, pedestrian parts and elevated them considerably to take them from barely palatable to stellar.

Online Adami

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7804 on: May 07, 2017, 05:24:30 PM »
Regarding the sameness of TDOE, I have to agree a bit.

I actually do like the album a lot, but even though I've listened to the songs a ton, when I'm just going over songs like LNF, BiTS, or even Outcry, they honestly all just kind of blent together to me. I know they aren't the same, but I find myself forgetting which part goes to which song and that they can be pretty interchangeable.
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