Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Stadler]

And considering that he was the only member of the group who MP ever took shots at in the media even while he was still in the group, I think that JLB has been pretty remarkable in taking the high road.  A lesser man may have really unloaded on MP for some of that stuff, but that hasn't really happened.

That's a fair point that I had not considered.   Maybe you guys are right.

[Stadler]

It's more than just his voice though. His charisma as a frontman as well as just his sly vocal style really gave him all that recognition. There wasn't really anyone like that before Plant. JLB's vocals may have gotten more recognition in that time but I don't think he would've been elevated to Robert Plant status.

Probably not the place for it, but I really don't think Plant gets his due, and I don't know if that is because Zeppelin is so ubiquitous, or because his solo stuff wasn't as iconic, or because there just isn't type of concert like the ones Zeppelin used to put on. 

But I went through a pretty big Zeppelin kick a couple months ago and broke out the DVD and TSRTS, and man, Plant was a rock GOD.  I also saw a couple shows on the Page/Plant tour, and there was a moment during... I think it was "Calling To You", where they broke the song down and did some interpolations (like they used to do in Dazed and Confused).  And at one point he was sort of mumbling/scatting Break On Through by the Doors, and it was pretty cool, lights were low, it was really... vibey, if that's a word, then he moved into "For What It's Worth" by the Buffalo Springfield, and when it got to the "chorus", the lights flashed on and he belted out "Stop! Hey! What's that sound everybody look what's goin' down!" and it literally took my breath away.  (Of course the band did it again later during "The Song Remains The Same", to this day the single greatest moment I've ever had at a rock concert and I've been to a few). 

Oh yea I agree, I like his aggressive vocals a lot, just wish he'd mix it up more these days like he did on Odyssey. But yea, Russel is one of my all time favorite vocalists for sure, so I definitely agree there. If there's ever a more modern singer who deserves to be up there with the likes of Dickinson and Halford, I think it's Allen.

Am I in the minority in that I don't really care for Russell Allen's singing?   More specifically, it isn't BAD, he certainly has range and control of his voice, but I don't know, what I've heard?   He's not Dickinson or Halford.  Or, in my book, LaBrie.  Caveat, I am not 100% conversant in the Symphony X catalogue.

[TheGreatPretender]

All I know is that if I tried to sing like Russel Allen, my larynx would explode.

[bosk1]

Am I in the minority in that I don't really care for Russell Allen's singing?   More specifically, it isn't BAD, he certainly has range and control of his voice, but I don't know, what I've heard?   He's not Dickinson or Halford.  Or, in my book, LaBrie.  Caveat, I am not 100% conversant in the Symphony X catalogue.

Just out of curiosity, what have you heard?  Obviously, if you just don't like his singing, you are entitled to that.  I can certainly understand if that is the case.  But if most of what you have heard is his more "harsh" vocals from the last two albums especially, or his Adrenaline Mob stuff, you haven't really heard much of what he is capable of. 

[Miss Bangkok]

I'm guessing this is controversial, as it seems most fans don't like You Not Me, but I actually dig that song. Don't really see why it's such a "bad" song? It's got a killer guitar solo. Short and sweet, but groovy as fuck.

[TheGreatPretender]

 

I'm guessing this is controversial, as it seems most fans don't like You Not Me, but I actually dig that song. Don't really see why it's such a "bad" song? It's got a killer guitar solo. Short and sweet, but groovy as fuck.

 

[Mosh]

It's more than just his voice though. His charisma as a frontman as well as just his sly vocal style really gave him all that recognition. There wasn't really anyone like that before Plant. JLB's vocals may have gotten more recognition in that time but I don't think he would've been elevated to Robert Plant status.

Probably not the place for it, but I really don't think Plant gets his due, and I don't know if that is because Zeppelin is so ubiquitous, or because his solo stuff wasn't as iconic, or because there just isn't type of concert like the ones Zeppelin used to put on. 

But I went through a pretty big Zeppelin kick a couple months ago and broke out the DVD and TSRTS, and man, Plant was a rock GOD.  I also saw a couple shows on the Page/Plant tour, and there was a moment during... I think it was "Calling To You", where they broke the song down and did some interpolations (like they used to do in Dazed and Confused).  And at one point he was sort of mumbling/scatting Break On Through by the Doors, and it was pretty cool, lights were low, it was really... vibey, if that's a word, then he moved into "For What It's Worth" by the Buffalo Springfield, and when it got to the "chorus", the lights flashed on and he belted out "Stop! Hey! What's that sound everybody look what's goin' down!" and it literally took my breath away.  (Of course the band did it again later during "The Song Remains The Same", to this day the single greatest moment I've ever had at a rock concert and I've been to a few). 

I love Led Zeppelin. I went through a phase where I listened to nothing but Zeppelin for a good year. And I don't dislike Plant's voice, I just wouldn't hold him with the greats from his era. He was also the weak link in Zeppelin as far as I'm concerned. And he reached his peak quickly (Zeppelin IVish) and went downhill just as fast.

I will not, however, dispute his greatness as a frontman. He was perfect for that band.
 

Am I in the minority in that I don't really care for Russell Allen's singing?   More specifically, it isn't BAD, he certainly has range and control of his voice, but I don't know, what I've heard?   He's not Dickinson or Halford.  Or, in my book, LaBrie.  Caveat, I am not 100% conversant in the Symphony X catalogue.

What Bosk said; if you haven't heard his more diverse material from the 90s/early 00's you definitely want to check that out.


So I can at least have something on topic: I think Constant Motion is the best song on Systematic Chaos. I'll never understand the hate for it. It has prog, it has riffs, it has an AMAZING guitar solo from Petrucci. I even like the lyrics, some of MP's best IMHO.

[Miss Bangkok]

Fuck yes; the middle section has that awesome Latin-ish Di Meola sounding riff, then leads into that awesome solo...

[KevShmev]

  I think Constant Motion is the best song on Systematic Chaos. I'll never understand the hate for it. It has prog, it has riffs, it has an AMAZING guitar solo from Petrucci. I even like the lyrics, some of MP's best IMHO.

It also has FOREVER MORE INTO THE NIGHT BLISTERING.  And some of the most generic vocal melodies in the band's history. 

It really is too bad that a good riff and great solo are wasted in what is otherwise a very mediocre and forgettable song.

[Mosh]

  I think Constant Motion is the best song on Systematic Chaos. I'll never understand the hate for it. It has prog, it has riffs, it has an AMAZING guitar solo from Petrucci. I even like the lyrics, some of MP's best IMHO.

It also has FOREVER MORE INTO THE NIGHT BLISTERING.

Meh I like that part and the vocal melodies are fine to me.

[Zook]

Yeah, Scurvydreams loves that part too.

[Stadler]

Am I in the minority in that I don't really care for Russell Allen's singing?   More specifically, it isn't BAD, he certainly has range and control of his voice, but I don't know, what I've heard?   He's not Dickinson or Halford.  Or, in my book, LaBrie.  Caveat, I am not 100% conversant in the Symphony X catalogue.

Just out of curiosity, what have you heard?  Obviously, if you just don't like his singing, you are entitled to that.  I can certainly understand if that is the case.  But if most of what you have heard is his more "harsh" vocals from the last two albums especially, or his Adrenaline Mob stuff, you haven't really heard much of what he is capable of.

I  heard one complete album, and all the AMob stuff.  The Symphony X album I heard wasn't the same as AMob, but it wasn't THAT far removed either.   Again, not saying he sucks or he isn't technically capable, I just didn't think it broke any new ground.   You know how when you hear Halford or Dickinson or Gillan, NO ONE sounds like them?  That's what I mean (and to me, LaBrie is the same way). 

[Randaran]

What Bosk said; if you haven't heard his more diverse material from the 90s/early 00's you definitely want to check that out.

I also recommend Paradise Lost; the harsher vocals are not as one sided as on Iconoclast, and the title track is one of Russell's finest clean performances.

So I can at least have something on topic: I think Constant Motion is the best song on Systematic Chaos. I'll never understand the hate for it. It has prog, it has riffs, it has an AMAZING guitar solo from Petrucci. I even like the lyrics, some of MP's best IMHO.

Even MP's harsh vocals are great. Unlike in, let's say, ANTR, they fit very well. The only instances of them that I prefer are in TGP and TCoT chorus.

I rank CM in the middle of SC; it has some great sections, with few weak ones. If the fast part of Jordan's solo was better, it may even breach my top 50.

[hefdaddy42]

I'm not crazy about Russell Allen either.  I mean, I recognize that he is a gifted singer, but I don't really care for the bands he has been associated with or the music he has made, so by default I'm not a fan.

[Tomislav95]

Russell is one of my favorites. His performance on The Divine Wings of Tragedy is magnificent. I don't like him so much on two newest albums but he's great on song Paradise Lost and When All is Lost.

[rumborak]

I'm not crazy about Russell Allen either.  I mean, I recognize that he is a gifted singer, but I don't really care for the bands he has been associated with or the music he has made, so by default I'm not a fan.

That's it for me too. He is one of the strongest singers in the prog scene (with JLB quite a good amount behind), but the music he  chooses to sing in doesn't do anything for me. SymX, Amob, Amex, it's all a wash for me.

[Zook]

Amex?

[tiagodon]

Miss Bangkok, is that really you in the picture?

[Rodni Demental]

So I can at least have something on topic: I think Constant Motion is the best song on Systematic Chaos. I'll never understand the hate for it. It has prog, it has riffs, it has an AMAZING guitar solo from Petrucci. I even like the lyrics, some of MP's best IMHO.

Yeah, it's a top song. Anyone that doesn't like it is obviously completely insane..   

And I'm just gonna leave this Russel Allen video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id2dzytdn-s

[PixelDream]

I don't know if it's controversial, but I feel Images & Words + Awake are head and shoulders above anything else DT has put out. On a couple of occasions they managed to reach that level (Six Degrees, Vacant-SoC-ItNOG, Octavarium title track). That's no biggie at all though, I enjoy all their albums.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't know if it's controversial, but I feel Images & Words + Awake are head and shoulders above anything else DT has put out.

That's not controversial at all.

[chaossystem]

I don't understand why SFaM is called "Metropolis part 2" when the one is really NOT a sequel or follow-up to the other. I love them both, but the way I see it, they took bits and pieces of the music and lyrics from the original song and fleshed them out
into an album-length concept. Metropolis is not the beginning of the story, so to speak. It should be called "the introduction" NOT
"part 1."

And I STILL say that ACoS/Uncovered IS a full-Length album, NOT an E.P.!

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I don't think they intended on continuing Metropolis, they called it "Part I" as a joke.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't understand why SFaM is called "Metropolis part 2" when the one is really NOT a sequel or follow-up to the other.

Because the band did a song called Metropolis, they called it Part 1, which left them open for a sequel.  So they called it Part 2.  Not sure what there is not to understand.

And I STILL say that ACoS/Uncovered IS a full-Length album, NOT an E.P.!

Not sure why, but OK.

[TheGreatPretender]

I don't think I've said this before, but I think "Goodnight Kiss" lyrics are more corny than TMOLS or anything on BC&SL.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I don't understand why SFaM is called "Metropolis part 2" when the one is really NOT a sequel or follow-up to the other. I love them both, but the way I see it, they took bits and pieces of the music and lyrics from the original song and fleshed them out
into an album-length concept. Metropolis is not the beginning of the story, so to speak. It should be called "the introduction" NOT
"part 1."

And I STILL say that ACoS/Uncovered IS a full-Length album, NOT an E.P.!

[hefdaddy42]

[Mosh]

I don't understand why SFaM is called "Metropolis part 2" when the one is really NOT a sequel or follow-up to the other. I love them both, but the way I see it, they took bits and pieces of the music and lyrics from the original song and fleshed them out
into an album-length concept. Metropolis is not the beginning of the story, so to speak. It should be called "the introduction" NOT
"part 1."

And I STILL say that ACoS/Uncovered IS a full-Length album, NOT an E.P.!

[BlobVanDam]

I don't know if it's controversial, but I feel Images & Words + Awake are head and shoulders above anything else DT has put out.

That's not controversial at all.

But it is wrong.

Here's my controversial opinion. DT only did one great album with KM, IaW. The other two are among their weakest albums.
Now, SFAM + SDOIT. There's an unbeatable duo of albums that they'll never come close to topping.

[GasparXR]

I don't know if it's controversial, but I feel Images & Words + Awake are head and shoulders above anything else DT has put out.

That's not controversial at all.

But it is wrong.

Here's my controversial opinion. DT only did one great album with KM, IaW. The other two are among their weakest albums.
Now, SFAM + SDOIT. There's an unbeatable duo of albums that they'll never come close to topping.

I agree with the SFAM + SDOIT notion, I feel like Octavarium and DT12 came close, but no pair like them has come since. If the next album is about as good as DT12 though, I will revise that thought. I have faith that's it's possible with this band.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't know if it's controversial, but I feel Images & Words + Awake are head and shoulders above anything else DT has put out.

That's not controversial at all.

But it is wrong.

Wasn't commenting on right or wrong.

But you're wrong, he's right.

[Outcrier]

Even though Awake is fourth place in my book, it's light years above albums like BCSL or WDADU.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't know if it's controversial, but I feel Images & Words + Awake are head and shoulders above anything else DT has put out.

That's not controversial at all.

But it is wrong.

Wasn't commenting on right or wrong.

But you're wrong, he's right.

Oh yeah? Well you're wrong about me being wrong about him being wrong! So there.

[Zook]

[KevShmev]

Here's my controversial opinion. DT only did one great album with KM, IaW. The other two are among their weakest albums.