Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Rodni Demental]

Also, I was just trying to see random DT trends, and this one I found particularly interesting:

https://www.google.ca/trends/explore#q=%22dream+theater+live%22

If you think about it, it's quite likely to be Live at Budokan and Live at Luna Park that's causing those spikes, they both occur right around the release of each. What's strange about this is that everything inbetween isn't comparable to these peaks. Is it because other live releases like Score and Chaos in Motion weren't titled 'live at somewhere' so aren't relevant in this type of search trend? Also, the 'dream theater live' searches seem to be heading for an all time low again, yet the band is on tour right now so those spikes seem more likely related to the hype of their official live releases.

[TheGreatPretender]

If you think about it, it's quite likely to be Live at Budokan and Live at Luna Park that's causing those spikes, they both occur right around the release of each. What's strange about this is that everything inbetween isn't comparable to these peaks. Is it because other live releases like Score and Chaos in Motion weren't titled 'live at somewhere' so aren't relevant in this type of search trend? Also, the 'dream theater live' searches seem to be heading for an all time low again, yet the band is on tour right now so those spikes seem more likely related to the hype of their official live releases.

So what does that mean though? That when people want "live at budokan" or "live at luna park" they simply type, "Dream Theater Live"? Lazy bastards.

[rumborak]

That's the definition of the casual fan though, right? He/she might have heard DT put out a new live album, and that's exactly how I would search for it if I didn't know the name.

Keep also in mind that Google is a convenient way to search for YouTube videos.

[TheGreatPretender]

That's the definition of the casual fan though, right? He/she might have heard DT put out a new live album, and that's exactly how I would search for it if I didn't know the name.

Keep also in mind that Google is a convenient way to search for YouTube videos.

Yeah, but if all they're looking for is DT's latest live album, then we should've seen spikes in 2006 and 2008 as well, when Score and CIM came out. So obviously, people searching for their latest live album that doesn't have the word "live" in it, is not a significant factor in this case, it would seem.

[rumborak]

I don't have the information right in front of me, but given how Chile and Indonesia are the main searchers for that term, it might me more about people looking for their touring schedule. When was DT in Chile?

[TheGreatPretender]

Wait, I think I figured out why DT has been a declining trend on google! You see, those fans that kept searching for "Dream Theater" ended up buying the deluxe editions of DT albums, and as a result, they went broke, and lost their internet! Mystery solved!

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

Maybe all of their fans migrated to the U.K. and started searching "Dream Theatre"...

[?]

Maybe all of their fans migrated to the U.K. and started searching "Dream Theatre"...

[hefdaddy42]

Not sure if it's controversial or not, but IMHO, Illumination Theory has the best examples of JLB's vocal techniques used within a single song.  All his tricks are on display, from soft, heartfelt passages to raspy sections to high notes.  There are other songs that perhaps contain better examples of one of these traits, but they are all on display in this song, and he is one of the reason I love it so much.

[TheGreatPretender]

Not sure if it's controversial or not, but IMHO, Illumination Theory has the best examples of JLB's vocal techniques used within a single song.  All his tricks are on display, from soft, heartfelt passages to raspy sections to high notes.  There are other songs that perhaps contain better examples of one of these traits, but they are all on display in this song, and he is one of the reason I love it so much.

Hmm... I would say that between IT and The Shattered Fortress, we really do get to see his whole spectrum. Which is pretty impressive. I don't know too many vocalists who have that many colors to their technique.
I think it's because JLB started out with the high, soaring vocal style that belonged to Glam Metal, and because that genre died off shortly after DT formed, while still doing high vocals for a lot of DT songs, he was forced to evolve and develop his style further, not only because of DT's diverse style in music, but to keep up with the times.

[Nearmyth]

Not sure if it's controversial or not, but IMHO, Illumination Theory has the best examples of JLB's vocal techniques used within a single song.  All his tricks are on display, from soft, heartfelt passages to raspy sections to high notes.  There are other songs that perhaps contain better examples of one of these traits, but they are all on display in this song, and he is one of the reason I love it so much.

This. I think most would agree that JLB does a great job showcasing his range and abilities in IT.

[Rodni Demental]

I've said it a few times, but I actually think IT showcases the entire band brilliantly. There's honestly a little bit of everything. Crazy guitar riffing and soloing, crazy keyboard solos, atmospheric keyboards, lots of subtle base nuances, strings, dynamic vocal demonstrations, crazy drum fills, melodic drum fills, plenty of key and time signature changes, suite arrangements, silence, easter eggs etc.

[tiagodon]

I've said it a few times, but I actually think IT showcases the entire band brilliantly. There's honestly a little bit of everything. Crazy guitar riffing and soloing, crazy keyboard solos, atmospheric keyboards, lots of subtle base nuances, strings, dynamic vocal demonstrations, crazy drum fills, melodic drum fills, plenty of key and time signature changes, suite arrangements, silence, easter eggs etc.

Imagine if we had an album with 5 of those! It would be a classic!

[Invisible]

I've said it a few times, but I actually think IT showcases the entire band brilliantly. There's honestly a little bit of everything. Crazy guitar riffing and soloing, crazy keyboard solos, atmospheric keyboards, lots of subtle base nuances, strings, dynamic vocal demonstrations, crazy drum fills, melodic drum fills, plenty of key and time signature changes, suite arrangements, silence, easter eggs etc.

Imagine if we had an album with 5 of those! It would be a classic!

Well you have Six Degrees and BC&SL, so not necessarily, both with 6 songs, so not necessarily. Even though I love Six Degrees, I prefer balance.


As for the trends, I remember the "there are three kinds of lies" phrase. It's just ONE meter, and DT isn't exactly and never was the casual fan kind of band, and probably never will be. Comparing it to "singles" kind of bands is not the right thing to do. The concert sales seem to be as high as ever, so I'd say that's the most reliable stat for a band right now.
As for the forum, even worse, we're are the geek fans among a band that's already a geeky band, so it doesn't say anything at all really.

I think DT has always been a steady band, except for the PMU success, after that they kept growing or shrinking in very small amounts.

[XB0BX]

I love raspy James, or the aggressive, metallic James heard on Train of Thought. Test That Stumped Them All has some of my favorite JLB vocals.

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

I love raspy James, or the aggressive, metallic James heard on Train of Thought. Test That Stumped Them All has some of my favorite JLB vocals.

I love pretty much everything JLB does, but TTTSTA definitely makes a lasting impression. He sounds so aggressive. It makes me happy.

[Rodni Demental]

I love raspy James, or the aggressive, metallic James heard on Train of Thought. Test That Stumped Them All has some of my favorite JLB vocals.

This is why I like Luna Park so much, he adds a fair bit of grit to some of the ADTOE songs that almost breathes new life into them completely.

I love pretty much everything JLB does, but TTTSTA definitely makes a lasting impression. He sounds so aggressive. It makes me happy.

Love the energy in the vocals during WIMH aswell. Even MP sounds pretty good in this one.

[NotePad]

My opinion: DT should do an album that's entirely Power Metal. Now THAT would be progressive!

Or at least one song that's straight up power metal. Musically, but without fantasy lyrics cuz i don't like that.

[rumborak]

I guess it would be progressive for them, but it would also suck I don't think I would even bother downloading such an album.

My comment, which probably is not all that controversial really: I was listening to the "demo" version of ITNOG, as released by the bootlegs. To my understanding, the term "demo" doesn't really apply anymore for those ToT bootleg tunes. With ToT they started writing their albums completely in the studio, so they would record scratch tracks, and then rerecord all tracks with studio quality takes. So, I think those "demos" are really just mixed-down scratch tracks. Unlike previous albums' demo releases, where the songs were subtly different, because between the time of recording the demo, and actually going into the studio, the songs had changed and matured more.

[BlobVanDam]

My opinion: DT should do an album that's entirely Power Metal. Now THAT would be progressive!

Or at least one song that's straight up power metal. Musically, but without fantasy lyrics cuz i don't like that.

Wanting power metal without fantasy lyrics is like wanting a pub that doesn't sell alcohol. What's the point?

[Shine]

I hope the fact that they've been playing a lot of Awake on this tour influences their writing for the next album.

By that I mean: Make the writing suck less.

Ahem.

[BlobVanDam]

Given the selections from Awake this tour, I'm hoping to hell that it doesn't have any bearing on the next album, or else it won't be very good.

[Shine]

Given the selections from Awake this tour, I'm hoping to hell that it doesn't have any bearing on the next album, or else it won't be very good.

 

[Lucien]

Given the selections from Awake this tour, I'm hoping to hell that it doesn't have any bearing on the next album, or else it won't be very good.

 

Don't mind Blob, he's our resident Awake hater.

[BlobVanDam]

Given the selections from Awake this tour, I'm hoping to hell that it doesn't have any bearing on the next album, or else it won't be very good.

 

Don't mind Blob, he's our resident Awake hater.

I'm not the only one, but I'm proudly the most vocal!

[billybobjoe1881]

Maybe all of their fans migrated to the U.K. and started searching "Dream Theatre"...

Or Canada.  I have a hard time spelling Dream Theater correctly.

[hefdaddy42]

My comment, which probably is not all that controversial really: I was listening to the "demo" version of ITNOG, as released by the bootlegs. To my understanding, the term "demo" doesn't really apply anymore for those ToT bootleg tunes. With ToT they started writing their albums completely in the studio, so they would record scratch tracks, and then rerecord all tracks with studio quality takes. So, I think those "demos" are really just mixed-down scratch tracks. Unlike previous albums' demo releases, where the songs were subtly different, because between the time of recording the demo, and actually going into the studio, the songs had changed and matured more.

I believe you are mistaken.  They started "writing in the studio" with SFAM, because they were starting with JR as the new keyboard player at that time, and that was how the LTE albums had been written.  That continued on from there.

EXCEPT with TOT.  They got together in a rehearsal studio, where they spent 3 weeks writing, and demoed the songs.  Then they went to the actual studio and did the final recordings. 

[robwebster]

I hope the fact that they've been playing a lot of Awake on this tour influences their writing for the next album.

By that I mean: Make the writing suck less.

Ahem.

Eesh. If you're looking for sucky writing, DT12 isn't the place. That album is tight as a drum. Even the 19-minuter doesn't sprawl. The entire album is smart, concise, creative and diverse - bloody magnificent.

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

I hope the fact that they've been playing a lot of Awake on this tour influences their writing for the next album.

By that I mean: Make the writing suck less.

Ahem.

Eesh. If you're looking for sucky writing, DT12 isn't the place. That album is tight as a drum. Even the 19-minuter doesn't sprawl. The entire album is smart, concise, creative and diverse - bloody magnificent.

[Nel]

Rob, you forgot "unmemorable" and "bland". 

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

Rob, you forgot "unmemorable" and "bland". 

  I don't think he forgot anything. Creative and diverse don't go with "unmemorable" and "bland". The contrast between FAS, EM, TBP, BTV, and IT is considerable. I certainly couldn't look past the FAS into, the BTV solo/intro, IT string section/easter egg/James' incredible vocals, TLG's cymbal work, or EM's riffage/detective feel as "unmemorable". It may not be the best album they've released, and may not be somebody else's cup of tea, but it's not bland...



 

[Shine]

No sorry, every song sounds the same. It's like the mixed the entire album around TEI and forgot that it was the only heavy song on the album. I seriously wish I could get passed the absolutely abysmal mixing, but I just can't. It's trash. Worst sounding album, in terms of production, that Dream Theater has ever released. It's completely lacking any dynamics. WDADU might sound dated, but at least it's crisp, you can actually get a sense of what they wanted the music to sound like. DT is just white noise. And yes, I've listened to the HD tracks release, it doesn't seem to make much difference.

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

The music and songwriting is good, which is what I was talking about. I'm not a big fan of the mixing, but I'd say it's better than WDADU. WDADU sounds fuzzy and blurry to me, DT12 just sounds too compressed. I agree with you somewhat, but bad production =/= bland songwriting.

[Rodni Demental]

I was listening to the "demo" version of ITNOG, as released by the bootlegs. To my understanding, the term "demo" doesn't really apply anymore for those ToT bootleg tunes. With ToT they started writing their albums completely in the studio, so they would record scratch tracks, and then rerecord all tracks with studio quality takes. So, I think those "demos" are really just mixed-down scratch tracks. Unlike previous albums' demo releases, where the songs were subtly different, because between the time of recording the demo, and actually going into the studio, the songs had changed and matured more.

Scratch track =/= Demonstration track =/= Demo? Same difference really isn't it? Also the TOT demos had far less time to develop relative to other album schedules, compared to say, the FII demos which had much more time to evolve. Even still, I'd argue that there are a fair few differences; Keyboard tones/patches seem a bit different (unless they're just clearer because studio keyboards are normally quiet  ), also JPs solos can be different (eg. This Dying Soul). For the most part I'd say they improved and tightened up the solos, although I think the solos are the most obvious differences between the demos. Stream of Consciousness demo is a bit of a trip if you're quite familiar with the original as you'll notice some section that sound quite different. The arrangements seem to have remained entirely intact from the demos to the studio versions though.

[rumborak]

Scratch track =/= Demonstration track =/= Demo? Same difference really isn't it?

Err, hell no. A demo is something you go to record companies with to get their buy-in, whereas a scratch track is simply a poorly executed version of the final track.

@hef: I stand corrected about the writing in the studio part. But I still think the ToT demos are quite different from the earlier ones, if only because there was no time between recording of the demos and the actual recording of the album. The changes to the actual album version are minute, whereas "You or Me" for example are different songs almost.