Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 1000797 times)

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Offline ?

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4340 on: March 27, 2014, 02:59:53 PM »
The only part that sounds like Metallica on Train of Thought is the Blackened section in This Dying Soul.
And that's easily the worst part of that song.
The unison at the end would like to have a word with you.

Offline Zook

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4341 on: March 27, 2014, 03:24:36 PM »
The only part that sounds like Metallica on Train of Thought is the Blackened section in This Dying Soul.
And that's easily the worst part of that song.
The unison at the end would like to have a word with you.

Oh come on, that's some wanky goodness right there.

Offline Daso

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4342 on: March 27, 2014, 04:49:39 PM »
The unison is perhaps one of the only two good parts in the song.


I believe the whole "MP has feeling, MM doesn't" discussion is based solely on how MP improvises a lot more, making him more showy most of the time, while MM, as it has been said, is much more of an orchestral drummer, providing accentuation to other instruments to go along with the song. He studies what the other members are doing with more depth, which allows him to harmonize and carry the beat more faithfully to the band's purpose, and that, along with his how absolutely precise he is, makes him sound "robotic". He's very analytical as a musician and that has added a whole different dimension to DT's musical focus.

While MP took sort of a leading role and there was a lot more exhibition coming from the band in the last albums with him (especially SC, I think), MM's purpose is to understand the other member's intentions and be some sort of link between them while still doing his own thing, and I believe that is what makes DT12 be a lot more concise. Either way, I believe the real way to judge whether MM has "feeling" or not would be listening to him play live, since his studio behavior is more to make an organized, fitting piece, and not that of an entertainer, if you will, which is the desired behavior live. Put of what I have seen from videos and from when I saw them, heck, the guy has all the feeling that there is to be had, even with him trying by all means to be as faithful to the original versions of the songs.

Offline Lucien

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4343 on: March 27, 2014, 06:18:36 PM »
I think if Mangini decided to just play a drum solo, record it, and have the band write a song with the drum solo as the drum part, this discussion about Mangini having no feeling would be over. Plus it would be totally badass.
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Offline PixelDream

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4344 on: March 27, 2014, 06:35:43 PM »
Not to break the trend of this thread but I believe this is the place for this.
The Enemy Inside has gone from least favorite to best song of the album for me.
I have no clue of how to explain this, at all.
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Offline Volante99

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4345 on: March 27, 2014, 06:49:36 PM »
I think if Mangini decided to just play a drum solo, record it, and have the band write a song with the drum solo as the drum part, this discussion about Mangini having no feeling would be over. Plus it would be totally badass.

Except that his drum solos usually have zero groove and aren't in the least bit musical. There, I said it.

Offline XB0BX

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4346 on: March 27, 2014, 07:51:35 PM »
Systematic Chaos might be one my top 5 albums ever.

Offline red barchetta

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4347 on: March 27, 2014, 08:34:25 PM »
My controversial opinion about DT is very simple.  There are too many classic pieces of music that they should have been playing live in the last 5 years.  I know that they have a huge amount of songs and that is difficult to select.  But their current set list is not phenomenal to me.  I saw them 4 times in the last 5 years and they always put a great show but I'm always unhappy about their set list.
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Offline orcus116

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4348 on: March 27, 2014, 08:51:22 PM »
I think if Mangini decided to just play a drum solo, record it, and have the band write a song with the drum solo as the drum part, this discussion about Mangini having no feeling would be over. Plus it would be totally badass.

Except that his drum solos usually have zero groove and aren't in the least bit musical. There, I said it.

Almost every drum solo isn't musical or even interesting. Every one I've heard from any drummer, regardless of who they are, goes on three times as long as it should.

Offline Tom Bombadil

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4349 on: March 27, 2014, 10:39:07 PM »
I think if Mangini decided to just play a drum solo, record it, and have the band write a song with the drum solo as the drum part, this discussion about Mangini having no feeling would be over. Plus it would be totally badass.

Except that his drum solos usually have zero groove and aren't in the least bit musical. There, I said it.

Almost every drum solo isn't musical or even interesting. Every one I've heard from any drummer, regardless of who they are, goes on three times as long as it should.
I play the drums and even I have to agree with this. Drum solos are just plain boring.

Offline jammindude

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4350 on: March 27, 2014, 10:45:44 PM »
I think if Mangini decided to just play a drum solo, record it, and have the band write a song with the drum solo as the drum part, this discussion about Mangini having no feeling would be over. Plus it would be totally badass.

Except that his drum solos usually have zero groove and aren't in the least bit musical. There, I said it.

Almost every drum solo isn't musical or even interesting. Every one I've heard from any drummer, regardless of who they are, goes on three times as long as it should.
I play the drums and even I have to agree with this. Drum solos are just plain boring.

I'm not even a drummer....and I can practically recite *note for note* the YYZ drum solo from Exit...Stage Left.     IMO, it is extremely musical, and that version is the DEFINITIVE version of YYZ.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4351 on: March 27, 2014, 10:49:09 PM »
Yeah, Peart is the only rock drummer whose solo didn't bore me to tears (although I am bored with them now).  Well okay, Carl Palmer, too.  But aside from those two, every solo I've ever seen by a drummer has been a snoozer.  I think Portnoy even admitted several times that he wasn't much a drum soloist, which is why he hardly ever did them.  Mangini's is probably technically awesome, but it does nada for me.

Offline jammindude

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4352 on: March 27, 2014, 10:56:13 PM »
I'm actually sad that MP didn't do more solos.    He gave them up very early...but I put his LIT solo along side the aforementioned Peart and Palmer solos as the funnest solos I've ever heard in my whole life.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4353 on: March 27, 2014, 10:59:25 PM »
Really?  That was smack dab in the middle of my "everything DT does is totally awesome" phase, but long before my "not being a fan of Mike Portnoy the man" phase :lol, and even then I didn't think much of it.  To each their own. :biggrin:

Offline jammindude

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4354 on: March 27, 2014, 11:02:08 PM »
And I'm not necessarily a DT or MP "drum solo fanboy"....I thought the drum solo on OIALT was completely disappointing.  (really...ALL of OIALT was disappointing, but that's another discussion)    But I could listen to the solo from the Live in Tokyo video on an endless loop.   I think it's brilliant, and I'm just glad MP was captured in his prime before he stopped doing solos. 
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4355 on: March 27, 2014, 11:06:05 PM »
I guess.  I hate that it was in the middle of that awesome version of Ytse Jam.  It took some work and careful editing, but I managed to edit the song to eliminate the drum solo (except the ditty at the end that is in the original song anyway) and have a perfect live Ytse Jam. :metal

Offline jammindude

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4356 on: March 27, 2014, 11:11:36 PM »
I guess.  I hate that it was in the middle of that awesome version of Ytse Jam.  It took some work and careful editing, but I managed to edit the song to eliminate the drum solo (except the ditty at the end that is in the original song anyway) and have a perfect live Ytse Jam. :metal

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Offline bl5150

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4357 on: March 27, 2014, 11:14:28 PM »
I'm on a roll posting about Van Halen at the moment but when it comes to drum solos there's only one I remember (or enjoyed a great deal) and that was Alex Van Halen's - neck brace and all - on the VH 3 tour.    Aside from Cherone prancing around like a pansy it was a great gig all round but - I feel weird even saying this - the drum solo was the highlight of the night.   He had brass piped in with a calypso theme and he nailed it and got a 1-2 minute standing ovation from the crowd.

Looks like I need to revisit Live In Tokyo , although I think I only have it on VHS  :)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 11:32:50 PM by bl5150 »
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4358 on: March 27, 2014, 11:29:38 PM »
I'm just still in shock.   I had to do a DVD rip to get a CD version of that incredible (and IMO "definitive") version of Ytse Jam.   That, to me, is tied with ESL's YYZ as the most incredible "live instrumental w/drum solo song" in rock history.    It even destroys The Mule from Made In Japan.   
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Offline bl5150

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4359 on: March 27, 2014, 11:29:49 PM »
My controversial opinion about DT is very simple.  There are too many classic pieces of music that they should have been playing live in the last 5 years.  I know that they have a huge amount of songs and that is difficult to select.  But their current set list is not phenomenal to me.  I saw them 4 times in the last 5 years and they always put a great show but I'm always unhappy about their set list.

I reckon DT would be close enough to the hardest band to work out a set list for - I don't envy that task.  Compared to say classic bands like Van Halen or KISS (which didn't vary hugely from album to album with most lineups) where they could usually put together a spread of songs that would keep 90% of people happy over the course of a couple of hours,  DT...........well you only need to read this forum.  Because DT have covered so much ground (and appeal to people with prog and hard rock/metal backgrounds.....many of which only have DT in common but otherwise don't like the other style) plenty of us worship one era and really struggle with another.

What would you like to hear them play?
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Offline krands85

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4360 on: March 28, 2014, 05:31:20 AM »
My controversial opinion about DT is very simple.  There are too many classic pieces of music that they should have been playing live in the last 5 years.  I know that they have a huge amount of songs and that is difficult to select.  But their current set list is not phenomenal to me.  I saw them 4 times in the last 5 years and they always put a great show but I'm always unhappy about their set list.
I tend to agree. I've seen DT live 3 times now and have always loved the experience, but each time I've come away disappointed by the setlists. I wouldn't say there are songs that they have to play almost every live show ever - that would get very stale for the band and fans who see them regularly, I just think I've been a bit unlucky that I seem to have missed out a lot of my favourite tracks. It's all personal opinions though of course and I've seen almost universal praise for this current setlist, sadly I'm just not a fan. Same goes for Luna Park and the upcoming Boston show DVD - I think the sets on DT's other live albums are all better.
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Offline tiagodon

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4361 on: March 28, 2014, 05:45:42 AM »
They hardly play something from Black Clouds. Is it some kind of "forbidden album"?
For me, that is their best album!

Offline The Stray Seed

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4362 on: March 28, 2014, 05:48:35 AM »

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4363 on: March 28, 2014, 05:56:27 AM »
They hardly play something from Black Clouds. Is it some kind of "forbidden album"?
For me, that is their best album!

Given that they played The Shattered Fortress, obviously not! Keep in mind they're playing nothing at all from Images and Words, Six Degrees, Octavarium, Train of Thought, or Systematic Chaos.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline The Holy Tune

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4364 on: March 28, 2014, 07:12:55 AM »
They hardly play something from Black Clouds. Is it some kind of "forbidden album"?
For me, that is their best album!

They played TCOT last year. 2009 was it's touring. And also considering that they played TSF from BC&SL (which wasn't ever played live), they sure do play that beautiful album ;D

Offline rumborak

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4365 on: March 28, 2014, 07:16:28 AM »
Screw the haters. I thought the set list was one of the best parts about this year's concert.
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Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4366 on: March 28, 2014, 07:27:15 AM »
 I really liked it as well, but I miss the setlist changes...the unpredictability of their setlists was a HUGE turn on a few years back.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4367 on: March 28, 2014, 07:30:25 AM »
Their current setlist is the weakest setlist I've seen from them in a headlining show imo.
Only one song from my top 20, several songs from my bottom 20, nothing from my favourite DT album at all, and barely half of the setlist would probably even make my top 50. The saving grace is the chunk of SFAM, and ToT. If not for those, I wouldn't even question not going to see that show.

I thought last tour's setlist was great, but this tour's setlist is a total head scratcher to me.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline jmasterx

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4368 on: March 28, 2014, 07:48:44 AM »
Their current setlist is the weakest setlist I've seen from them in a headlining show imo.
Only one song from my top 20, several songs from my bottom 20, nothing from my favourite DT album at all, and barely half of the setlist would probably even make my top 50. The saving grace is the chunk of SFAM, and ToT. If not for those, I wouldn't even question not going to see that show.

I thought last tour's setlist was great, but this tour's setlist is a total head scratcher to me.

You've pretty much word for word written how I feel.

Personally, if I have to hear so many songs from Awake, I want to hear voices. Awake is my next to least favorite album. My least is FFI. I enjoyed the DT12 songs, especially IT. Really would have liked some material from SDOIT and I&W. Would have gladly swapped some awake songs to hear the entire ACOS, but that was released in 95' ... maybe they will play it on the next NA Leg if there is one.

My other controversial opinion is, DT's shows are too loud. During LSOAD, I thought they keyboard part (the last 5 notes of the section) were completely out of tune, but this is because my hearing was damaged from it being too loud. I heard it back on YouTube and it sounded much better.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4369 on: March 28, 2014, 08:44:58 AM »
The one and possibly only time I'll ever get to see Space Dye Vest , Scarred and Finally Free live in one show and I cannot go, due to more important obligations.

I hope they keep on of those 3 on the 2nd US leg.
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Offline The Holy Tune

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4370 on: March 28, 2014, 09:28:32 AM »
I think the setlist is brilliant. Although I'd certainly swap OTBOA and BAI with some other songs from I&W or 6DOIT. Those 2 songs have been played very much in the last tour. Hope they'll make the coolest changes for the next European tour, like putting 8VM in the setlist too ;D ;D I'm burning with excitement for their Turkey concert. It'll be my first ever!

Oh and they are yet to play TBP, STR and BTV too.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4371 on: March 28, 2014, 09:40:13 AM »
I really liked it as well, but I miss the setlist changes...the unpredictability of their setlists was a HUGE turn on a few years back.

It was fun to check out the 'net back then and see how different set lists were from show to show, for sure, but on the flip side, certain cities always got the best surprises (NY, Chicago, etc.), and imagine a rarity being pulled out, but not played in your city.  That would suck.  And it used to happen all the time.  Personally, as a huge fan of Side 2 of Awake, I don't have to worry that any of those songs suddenly will be yanked from the set list when I see them next weekend.  That is a good thing. :coolio

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4372 on: March 28, 2014, 09:42:15 AM »
You won't be disappointed.  They crushed all the Awake songs.
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Offline tiagodon

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4373 on: March 28, 2014, 10:27:49 AM »
More controversial opinions!
I don't understand why John Myung's bass lines are so low in DT's recordings.
Why they seem to turn everything else up till the bass disappears?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 10:34:08 AM by tiagodon »

Offline Sycsa

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #4374 on: March 28, 2014, 11:04:56 AM »
I like how DT12 sounds, more and more every time I give it a spin. The guitar is huge and crisp, the bass is more prominent than on the majority of DT albums, Jordan's patches are warm and of high quality, James sounds exceptional (vocal effects included), miles better than on ADTOE and the drums (the most controversial subject)...are big, huge, fat, punchy, in-your-face and manly. Just listened to IT and the fat and warm toms of MM right before the keyboard solo @ the 14 min mark busted my guts so hard, I had to rewind it a dozen times.


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