Your Controversial Opinions on DT

Started by Lucidity, December 17, 2012, 07:28:25 PM

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theseoafs

I also hear JR really, really doesn't like salad, but JP orders salad for JR whenever they go to a restaurant, and JR just kind of puts up with it.

hefdaddy42

Quote from: XB0BX on March 15, 2014, 07:59:53 AM
Jordan made his solo albums sound like DT to capitalize on DT fans and make a lot of money.
OK,  you're either full of shit or you're trolling.  Either way, cut it out.
Quote from: BlobVanDam on December 11, 2014, 08:19:46 PMHef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

rumborak

Jordan is actually DT's tax advisor. He just happens to do their taxes on stage, that's why he has that iPad there.

GasparXR

Quote from: rumborak on March 15, 2014, 10:55:32 AM
Jordan is actually DT's tax advisor. He just happens to do their taxes on stage, that's why he has that iPad there.

iPeed when I read that out loud to myself.

rumborak

On a more serious note, there's a certain aspect where I agree with XBOX. I agree that Jordan's musical ideas are probably not the easiest to integrate. If you listen to his solo stuff and the LMR album, you get a feel for what naturally comes out of him. For that reason I usually find the Jordan sections on DT songs very easy to spot.

MoraWintersoul

Quote from: robwebster on March 15, 2014, 08:01:06 AM
Quote from: XB0BX on March 15, 2014, 07:59:53 AM
Jordan made his solo albums sound like DT to capitalize on DT fans and make a lot of money.
On the Magna Carta label.
choked on my coffee

Quote from: theseoafs on March 15, 2014, 09:50:27 AM
I also hear JR really, really doesn't like salad, but JP orders salad for JR whenever they go to a restaurant, and JR just kind of puts up with it.
Quote from: rumborak on March 15, 2014, 10:55:32 AM
Jordan is actually DT's tax advisor. He just happens to do their taxes on stage, that's why he has that iPad there.
and some more

GasparXR

Quote from: theseoafs on March 15, 2014, 09:50:27 AM
I also hear JR really, really doesn't like salad, but JP orders salad for JR whenever they go to a restaurant, and JR just kind of puts up with it.

It must have been a Bad Salad.

YtseJamittaja

Always I listen to BMUBMD I think the chorus is missing something. I don't know what but it sounds somehow too raw for my ears.

GentlemanofDread

That conversation produced some of the best quotes I've ever seen.

Serious note, Enigma Machine is my favourite DT instrumental.

Sacul


BlobVanDam

Quote from: rumborak on March 15, 2014, 10:58:38 AM
On a more serious note, there's a certain aspect where I agree with XBOX. I agree that Jordan's musical ideas are probably not the easiest to integrate. If you listen to his solo stuff and the LMR album, you get a feel for what naturally comes out of him. For that reason I usually find the Jordan sections on DT songs very easy to spot.

Definitely, and there is a side of JR's sound that I feel is lacking on the last few albums, but you can still hear his influence coming through clearly.

XB0BX

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on March 15, 2014, 10:37:23 AM
OK,  you're either full of shit or you're trolling.  Either way, cut it out.

You can call me a troll or think I'm lying, but the truth is closer to my POV than the "everything is flowers" camp. LMR is what Jordan would prefer to write. LMR doesn't sound very much like DT12.

robwebster

Quote from: XB0BX on March 16, 2014, 05:32:18 AM
Quote from: hefdaddy42 on March 15, 2014, 10:37:23 AM
OK,  you're either full of shit or you're trolling.  Either way, cut it out.

You can call me a troll or think I'm lying, but the truth is closer to my POV than the "everything is flowers" camp. LMR is what Jordan would prefer to write. LMR doesn't sound very much like DT12.
You heard it here first, LMR is the only music Jordan enjoys listening to or writing - based entirely on... shrug!

Frankly, he wouldn't play notes that aren't B-flat if he didn't have to. He only tolerates the rest of the octave for profit.

KevShmev

Quote from: robwebster on March 16, 2014, 05:41:02 AM
Quote from: XB0BX on March 16, 2014, 05:32:18 AM
Quote from: hefdaddy42 on March 15, 2014, 10:37:23 AM
OK,  you're either full of shit or you're trolling.  Either way, cut it out.

You can call me a troll or think I'm lying, but the truth is closer to my POV than the "everything is flowers" camp. LMR is what Jordan would prefer to write. LMR doesn't sound very much like DT12.
You heard it here first, LMR is the only music Jordan enjoys listening to or writing - based entirely on... shrug!

Frankly, he wouldn't play notes that aren't B-flat if he didn't have to. He only tolerates the rest of the octave for profit.


:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin

?

I just read an interview with Jordan and it seems that he has no problem with DT's stylistical limitations: https://metalshrineblogg.blogspot.se/2014/02/intervju-med-jordan-rudess-i-dream.html?m=1
QuoteWith a band like Dream Theater, is there ever a limit to how far you can stray from the sound you´re known for? Or do you always have to keep it within the Dream Theater boundaries, so to speak?

Jordan Rudess: The stylistic window. First of all, Dream Theater is a fairly wide stylistic world and there are a lot of things that can be included, be it a little honky tonk thing or a slightly jazzy thing, so there are many possibilities. There are certain things that really don´t go or don´t fly inside the Dream Theater window. The best example of a band that completely does what you´re referring to, is Radiohead. They create these songs and then next thing they´re an electronic band doing weird stuff. Dream Theater does not work that way. We´ve worked very hard over the years in creating this window of parameters and it´s kinda a common ground for all of us as musicians to create this particular kind of music. An example is that many years ago, I remember I had just gotten an amazing percussion library of native instruments called Battery with great electronic drum sounds. I came into a Dream Theater writing session and we started off jamming and I was playing these really cool sounds and we had a great, great jam and it was really funny and we all ended up laughing at the end, which was really cool. I remember Mike Portnoy saying "That was amazing, but we could never do anything like that!". It was just too different and too odd.

Could that ever limit you as a musician?

Jordan Rudess: As a musician I have all kinds of projects I do on the side. I just finished and orchestral album and earlier I made a solo piano album that is really, really gentle. I do my electronic music and my solo piano music and when we come together as a band, I know it´s time for Dream Theater. But if we look at the bigger picture, on this latest album we have the "Illumination theory" and in the middle of that one it goes into this very lovely orchestral and sensitive thing, which is a new thing for Dream Theater. I wrote this music that I probably would never picture would go on a Dream Theater album. Things do change and we become more relaxed. Things are possible, but it´s an appreciation and respect for who we are.

Tis BOOLsheet

Quote from: YtseJamittaja on March 15, 2014, 01:33:45 PM
Always I listen to BMUBMD I think the chorus is missing something. I don't know what but it sounds somehow too raw for my ears.

The something missing from that chorus is balls. It's a whiney radio metal chorus that makes me violently ill every time I (accidentally) listen to it. Not a controversial opinion at all, mate.

JayOctavarium


ToT-147

A Rite of Passage, Prophets of War and Never Enough are good songs..

Don't know how everyone keeps saying they're 'awful' in such a strictly way.. And I'm not saying anything against those who REALLY think these songs are bad.. I'm just against those who say they're bad only because in comparison with other songs they're not that great..

NE, POW & AROP  :hefdaddy

jakepriest

Quote from: JayOctavarium on March 16, 2014, 04:46:29 PM
I love BMUBMD.
Quote from: ToT-147 on March 16, 2014, 05:02:09 PM
A Rite of Passage, Prophets of War and Never Enough are good songs..
NE, POW & AROP  :hefdaddy

Agree with both.  :tup

jammindude

Quote from: JayOctavarium on March 16, 2014, 04:46:29 PM
I love BMUBMD.

I agree.  The screams just MAKE that chorus.  I think the chorus is one of DT's best.   Amazing song, and one of the highlights of ADTOE.

ThatOneGuy2112

Not to jump on the "BMUBMD hate" bandwagon, and for what it is, it's a pretty decent song, but the "screaming section" still gets me. And it's not that I don't like harsher vocals either, I just don't find that particular section's vocal melodies very exciting or memorable. Nothing about it makes me wanna go back to it. I much prefer the song for its riffs and lyrical chorus.

BlobVanDam

Quote from: jammindude on March 16, 2014, 05:45:16 PM
Quote from: JayOctavarium on March 16, 2014, 04:46:29 PM
I love BMUBMD.

I agree.  The screams just MAKE that chorus.  I think the chorus is one of DT's best.   Amazing song, and one of the highlights of ADTOE.

I don't love the song, but I really don't get the (amount of) hate it gets. It's definitely a solid song, and I've always appreciated the metal "singles" more than most. I don't know how someone can say the chorus is whiny or lacks balls either. :dunno:

GasparXR

Quote from: BlobVanDam on March 16, 2014, 07:28:31 PM
Quote from: jammindude on March 16, 2014, 05:45:16 PM
Quote from: JayOctavarium on March 16, 2014, 04:46:29 PM
I love BMUBMD.

I agree.  The screams just MAKE that chorus.  I think the chorus is one of DT's best.   Amazing song, and one of the highlights of ADTOE.

I don't love the song, but I really don't get the (amount of) hate it gets. It's definitely a solid song, and I've always appreciated the metal "singles" more than most. I don't know how someone can say the chorus is whiny or lacks balls either. :dunno:

It's probably my least favourite from the album, and I probably like it less than You Not Me, but it's STILL an enjoyable song. The only real problem I have with it is the unison section, which I don't find particularly interesting, and I thought the transition from it into the last chorus sounds a little lazy.

BlobVanDam

Quote from: GasparXR on March 16, 2014, 07:53:32 PM
Quote from: BlobVanDam on March 16, 2014, 07:28:31 PM
Quote from: jammindude on March 16, 2014, 05:45:16 PM
Quote from: JayOctavarium on March 16, 2014, 04:46:29 PM
I love BMUBMD.

I agree.  The screams just MAKE that chorus.  I think the chorus is one of DT's best.   Amazing song, and one of the highlights of ADTOE.

I don't love the song, but I really don't get the (amount of) hate it gets. It's definitely a solid song, and I've always appreciated the metal "singles" more than most. I don't know how someone can say the chorus is whiny or lacks balls either. :dunno:

It's probably my least favourite from the album, and I probably like it less than You Not Me, but it's STILL an enjoyable song. The only real problem I have with it is the unison section, which I don't find particularly interesting, and I thought the transition from it into the last chorus sounds a little lazy.

I don't think the unison is standout, but what I do like about it is that they didn't just tack in solos. They wrote a new section specifically for the instrumental and put the thought into it.

KevShmev

Quote from: ? on March 16, 2014, 01:17:32 PM
I just read an interview with Jordan and it seems that he has no problem with DT's stylistical limitations: https://metalshrineblogg.blogspot.se/2014/02/intervju-med-jordan-rudess-i-dream.html?m=1
QuoteWith a band like Dream Theater, is there ever a limit to how far you can stray from the sound you´re known for? Or do you always have to keep it within the Dream Theater boundaries, so to speak?

Jordan Rudess: The stylistic window. First of all, Dream Theater is a fairly wide stylistic world and there are a lot of things that can be included, be it a little honky tonk thing or a slightly jazzy thing, so there are many possibilities. There are certain things that really don´t go or don´t fly inside the Dream Theater window. The best example of a band that completely does what you´re referring to, is Radiohead. They create these songs and then next thing they´re an electronic band doing weird stuff. Dream Theater does not work that way. We´ve worked very hard over the years in creating this window of parameters and it´s kinda a common ground for all of us as musicians to create this particular kind of music. An example is that many years ago, I remember I had just gotten an amazing percussion library of native instruments called Battery with great electronic drum sounds. I came into a Dream Theater writing session and we started off jamming and I was playing these really cool sounds and we had a great, great jam and it was really funny and we all ended up laughing at the end, which was really cool. I remember Mike Portnoy saying "That was amazing, but we could never do anything like that!". It was just too different and too odd.

Could that ever limit you as a musician?

Jordan Rudess: As a musician I have all kinds of projects I do on the side. I just finished and orchestral album and earlier I made a solo piano album that is really, really gentle. I do my electronic music and my solo piano music and when we come together as a band, I know it´s time for Dream Theater. But if we look at the bigger picture, on this latest album we have the "Illumination theory" and in the middle of that one it goes into this very lovely orchestral and sensitive thing, which is a new thing for Dream Theater. I wrote this music that I probably would never picture would go on a Dream Theater album. Things do change and we become more relaxed. Things are possible, but it´s an appreciation and respect for who we are.

Honestly, that attitude is quite unfortunate.  Too different and too odd?  Uh, it's your band, so you can do whatever you want with it, especially when you freely admit to being a progressive band, which should mean doing whatever the hell you want, instead of staying inside the box you have created for yourself, even if it is larger than that of most other bands.

Rodni Demental

I might be a bit thrown off if JR used some really different wacky sounds, but I'd rather these guys did whatever the hell they wanted as opposed to making an impositional framework for themselves. I guess that happens with most bands after they've been around long enough though because they don't want to alienate their fanbase too much. But I like to think we'd have enough respect for their musicianship to at least try and appreciate anything they create.  :lol

robwebster

I mean, it's hardly unusual, is it? "Porcupine Tree music" is a fairly loose frame, but Steven Wilson still releases the really wacky stuff with a solo band. And as JR concedes, they do move out of their comfort zones. The last album has some of their weirdest stuff in years, and he himself pinpoints the orchestral bit as something they never thought they could do, so it's not something I can bring myself to be bothered about. It's not a totally blank canvas, but they're surprising me an increasing amount in a lot of cool ways.

Prophets of War does have all the hallmarks of a foray outside their comfort zone that could've been truly brilliant if they'd pushed the envelope just that little bit further, though.

erwinrafael

Quote from: KevShmev on March 16, 2014, 10:12:36 PM
Quote from: ? on March 16, 2014, 01:17:32 PM
I just read an interview with Jordan and it seems that he has no problem with DT's stylistical limitations: https://metalshrineblogg.blogspot.se/2014/02/intervju-med-jordan-rudess-i-dream.html?m=1
QuoteWith a band like Dream Theater, is there ever a limit to how far you can stray from the sound you´re known for? Or do you always have to keep it within the Dream Theater boundaries, so to speak?

Jordan Rudess: The stylistic window. First of all, Dream Theater is a fairly wide stylistic world and there are a lot of things that can be included, be it a little honky tonk thing or a slightly jazzy thing, so there are many possibilities. There are certain things that really don´t go or don´t fly inside the Dream Theater window. The best example of a band that completely does what you´re referring to, is Radiohead. They create these songs and then next thing they´re an electronic band doing weird stuff. Dream Theater does not work that way. We´ve worked very hard over the years in creating this window of parameters and it´s kinda a common ground for all of us as musicians to create this particular kind of music. An example is that many years ago, I remember I had just gotten an amazing percussion library of native instruments called Battery with great electronic drum sounds. I came into a Dream Theater writing session and we started off jamming and I was playing these really cool sounds and we had a great, great jam and it was really funny and we all ended up laughing at the end, which was really cool. I remember Mike Portnoy saying "That was amazing, but we could never do anything like that!". It was just too different and too odd.

Could that ever limit you as a musician?

Jordan Rudess: As a musician I have all kinds of projects I do on the side. I just finished and orchestral album and earlier I made a solo piano album that is really, really gentle. I do my electronic music and my solo piano music and when we come together as a band, I know it´s time for Dream Theater. But if we look at the bigger picture, on this latest album we have the "Illumination theory" and in the middle of that one it goes into this very lovely orchestral and sensitive thing, which is a new thing for Dream Theater. I wrote this music that I probably would never picture would go on a Dream Theater album. Things do change and we become more relaxed. Things are possible, but it´s an appreciation and respect for who we are.

Honestly, that attitude is quite unfortunate.  Too different and too odd?  Uh, it's your band, so you can do whatever you want with it, especially when you freely admit to being a progressive band, which should mean doing whatever the hell you want, instead of staying inside the box you have created for yourself, even if it is larger than that of most other bands.

What unfortunate attitude? JR is just saying that they can not really be like Radiohead in terms that change sounds drastically from album to album. At least not yet.

Onno

I'd really like them to change their sound sometime, or at least try some new/experimental things. SDOIT is my favourite DT album and I think that especially DT12 but ADTOE also are pretty boring.

KevShmev

Quote from: robwebster on March 17, 2014, 01:24:35 AM
I mean, it's hardly unusual, is it? "Porcupine Tree music" is a fairly loose frame, but Steven Wilson still releases the really wacky stuff with a solo band. And as JR concedes, they do move out of their comfort zones. The last album has some of their weirdest stuff in years, and he himself pinpoints the orchestral bit as something they never thought they could do, so it's not something I can bring myself to be bothered about. It's not a totally blank canvas, but they're surprising me an increasing amount in a lot of cool ways.



They tend to do that with a 10-second section here and a 10-second section there, as opposed to moving out of their comfort zone for entire songs.  Granted, it is usually pretty neat to hear different things in the context of songs that otherwise sound very DT (like the little breakdown in the middle of Breaking All Illusions, shortly before the guitar solo), but I'd love to see them throw caution to the wind and try writing some songs that are totally out of their comfort zone. 

Viking of the Sagas

Now I have a new reason for both liking and disliking this album: it's seriously, seriously catchy.

The "Knowing that nothing is stronger than faith" part in Along for the Ride kept looping in my head for the whole day, and it almost drove me mad before I realized that I could keep the wonderful melodies but just switch up the lyrics into nonsense.

rumborak

I'm with Kev on that I find DT has done their duty for king and country, and they should venture out a bit more. I mean, looking at JR's comment there, at least he seems to have desire to do other stuff, but he has to relegate it to outside projects. I mean, he's part of a band of astonishing musicians who could convincingly pull off a LOT of different styles, but they confine themselves to a very narrow range. Not very prog, that's for sure.

Dublagent66

The RR era of DT is definitely the least proggy.

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: Dublagent66 on March 17, 2014, 09:11:26 AM
The RR era of DT is definitely the least proggy.
Depending on your definition of proggy. The RR era of DT has been the most Metal oriented, the 7-string, the style of the riffs and the way they're mixed, it definitely has a much more metallic sound to it. But they still have very progressive songs. ITPOE, TCOT, IT, and many others, they still have all the progressive elements that DT is known for.

KevShmev

I am guessing he meant "least adventurous," not proggy per se in the sense of writing songs that are broadly defined as progressive rock or metal epics.  In that regard, I definitely agree that their most adventurous days were earlier in their career (1992-1994, 1999-2002).