Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 802961 times)

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Offline rumborak

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3955 on: March 02, 2014, 03:42:16 PM »
I think it's both actually. James decided to become more breathy because the heavy compression allowed him to use that breathiness then as a stylistic choice. And in earlier albums he used it sparingly to great effect. It's just that lately in any soft section he switches to that mode immediately. I don't think it's bad technique; it's just corny, and heavily overdone.
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Offline Grizz

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3956 on: March 02, 2014, 04:39:15 PM »
The only time when it's particularly bad for me is LaLP. The Silent Man sounds like someone put the audio of amateur porn through a distortion filter and edited it into the background.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3957 on: March 02, 2014, 06:07:45 PM »
The end of Through Her Eyes is also "interesting" vocally, to say the least.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3958 on: March 02, 2014, 07:09:15 PM »
4/4 is so lame - i'm writing song in Pi / 16

Offline Tis BOOLsheet

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3959 on: March 02, 2014, 08:06:52 PM »
If you breathe into a microphone it will amplify your breath, obviously. You shouldn't really be breathing directly into the microphone. The issue is not a technical one with the technology or amplifying equipment. It's that his singing is extremely breathy. It's just not good vocal technique.

To be sure, there was indeed a technical problem, that night. But it wasn't with the set up or equipment.

Even when he's been breathy in the past, it wasn't that bad. If you want to call it bad vocal technique, that's fine, but the problem was amplified by the equipment. I believe someone already mentioned that it was most likely the overcompression that made it so problematic.

It's not about what I (personally) want to call it. It's what it is.

I agree the microphone amplified it. That's what a microphone does: amplifies whatever you put into it. It's pretty clear the softer dynamics of these songs are making him uncomfortable. The breathy vocal on the Blu-ray is a symptom of that. Another issue is that he is hanging on consonants entirely too long. As a vocalist you should not be sustaining consonants-- you sustains the vowels. Yet, when I listen to the Silent Man every consonant, is being sustained. "ppppprrrraaay they wont last" or "behind the stained glasssssss"

That is singing 101. If you took any basic chorus class or vocal lesson, and you sang like that, you would get corrected immediately.

The effect of the compression was minimal, if anything. The microphone didn't create anything that wasn't there. It just brought to the forefront a number of problems that were going to give you this end product no matter what.

Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3960 on: March 03, 2014, 12:06:53 AM »
It's not about what I (personally) want to call it. It's what it is.

I agree the microphone amplified it. That's what a microphone does: amplifies whatever you put into it. It's pretty clear the softer dynamics of these songs are making him uncomfortable. The breathy vocal on the Blu-ray is a symptom of that. Another issue is that he is hanging on consonants entirely too long. As a vocalist you should not be sustaining consonants-- you sustains the vowels. Yet, when I listen to the Silent Man every consonant, is being sustained. "ppppprrrraaay they wont last" or "behind the stained glasssssss"

That is singing 101. If you took any basic chorus class or vocal lesson, and you sang like that, you would get corrected immediately.

The effect of the compression was minimal, if anything. The microphone didn't create anything that wasn't there. It just brought to the forefront a number of problems that were going to give you this end product no matter what.

First of all, are you saying that LaBrie's breathy vocals were more breathy than they ever have been? Because all the previous times he'd done breathy vocals, yes, they sounded breathy, but they still sounded like a vocalist singing breathy vocals. On Luna Park, it sounded very unnatural, so no, it wasn't JUST LaBrie that was the problem.

As for sustaining consonants over vowels, that's just laughable. I know some singes for how sustaining their consonants is their signature, it's what makes their style unique and it sounds just fine.
I know you don't like LaBrie as a vocalist, but this is just silly nitpicking.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3961 on: March 03, 2014, 05:35:10 AM »
How is that nit-picky? Do other people not hear how bad those S's sound on Live at Luna Park? Maybe not everyone detects it, but for me, it stops me from being able to listen to those songs.

I think both of you guys are right, to a degree. More recently, James HAS been doing a more whisper/breathy thing live. Extending the consonants while breathing heavy sounds like an apt description. However, I do think there was something weird going on with the sound on LALP, compression or something. So it's not ALL James or ALL the recording, but a bit of both.

Offline Zook

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3962 on: March 03, 2014, 09:10:01 AM »
Score was the last good DT live release so none of this breathy nonsense affects me in any way because I don't bother listening to any of the new live albums.

Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3963 on: March 03, 2014, 03:45:01 PM »
How is that nit-picky? Do other people not hear how bad those S's sound on Live at Luna Park? Maybe not everyone detects it, but for me, it stops me from being able to listen to those songs.

I think both of you guys are right, to a degree. More recently, James HAS been doing a more whisper/breathy thing live. Extending the consonants while breathing heavy sounds like an apt description. However, I do think there was something weird going on with the sound on LALP, compression or something. So it's not ALL James or ALL the recording, but a bit of both.

That's what I said.

To clarify, when I said nitpicky, I mean, the sheer concept of saying, "A singer shouldn't be extending his consonants, he should be extending his vowels, and any other way is wrong." I'm not saying that it was the best decision on James's part, in that particular instance, but to say as a rule that all singers must extend vowels, and not consonants, sounds like some artistically restricting BS to me.
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Offline YOWspotter

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3964 on: March 04, 2014, 08:33:28 AM »
My controversial opinion:

A coworker of mine and I just realized we have similar musical interests.  He introduced me to Fates Warning, and specifically told me to listen to the first and last tracks off their latest release.

I find the track "And Yet It Moves" to be simply stunning; a "masterpiece" so-to-speak.  I can't think of any single track by DT that can top this.  As DT is my favourite band, it "pains" me to admit this.

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3965 on: March 04, 2014, 08:35:43 AM »
Maybe you need a new favorite band.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3966 on: March 04, 2014, 08:49:26 AM »
My controversial opinion:

A coworker of mine and I just realized we have similar musical interests.  He introduced me to Fates Warning, and specifically told me to listen to the first and last tracks off their latest release.

I find the track "And Yet It Moves" to be simply stunning; a "masterpiece" so-to-speak.  I can't think of any single track by DT that can top this.  As DT is my favourite band, it "pains" me to admit this.

Eh, don't sweat it.  There is no rule that says your favorite band has to have your favorite song.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3967 on: March 04, 2014, 08:50:46 AM »
Dream Theater IS playing it safe right now. Or in other words, they've become pussies.

Insulting band members is against forum rules.  Consider this your warning.
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Offline Viking of the Sagas

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3968 on: March 04, 2014, 08:54:48 AM »
Cool, I'll dress it up in nice language next time.

Offline YOWspotter

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3969 on: March 04, 2014, 08:56:02 AM »
So to clarify, I put "pains" in quotations because it's not really that important to me.  i.e., I haven't been crying myself to sleep every night since making this discovery.

In this particular example, I feel that the other band is really exhibiting its maximum ability, whereas with DT, I don't feel that's happening.

Or maybe they are, and "others" are just that much better?  I don't know.  I must plead some ignorance since my musical interests aren't that vast.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3970 on: March 04, 2014, 09:05:04 AM »
My controversial opinion:

A coworker of mine and I just realized we have similar musical interests.  He introduced me to Fates Warning, and specifically told me to listen to the first and last tracks off their latest release.

I find the track "And Yet It Moves" to be simply stunning; a "masterpiece" so-to-speak.  I can't think of any single track by DT that can top this.  As DT is my favourite band, it "pains" me to admit this.
And Yet It Moves is a fantastic song indeed :tup

Offline bosk1

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3971 on: March 04, 2014, 09:05:30 AM »
Cool, I'll dress it up in nice language next time.

Or you could just drop the attitude and follow the forum rules.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3972 on: March 04, 2014, 09:06:11 AM »
My controversial opinion:

A coworker of mine and I just realized we have similar musical interests.  He introduced me to Fates Warning, and specifically told me to listen to the first and last tracks off their latest release.

I find the track "And Yet It Moves" to be simply stunning; a "masterpiece" so-to-speak.  I can't think of any single track by DT that can top this.  As DT is my favourite band, it "pains" me to admit this.
And Yet It Moves is a fantastic song indeed :tup

That album has quite a few, actually.
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Offline kingshmegland

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3973 on: March 04, 2014, 04:34:56 PM »
Dream Theater IS playing it safe right now. Or in other words, they've become pussies.

Insulting band members is against forum rules.  Consider this your warning.

Cool, I'll dress it up in nice language next time.

Who's the pussy now?!   :lol

Couldn't help myself. :lol
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Offline MinistryOfLostSouls

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3974 on: March 04, 2014, 08:17:43 PM »
-Ministry of Lost Souls is the best Dream Theater song ever written
-The worst Dream Theater song written is any time Portnoy was singing

Offline Rodni Demental

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3975 on: March 04, 2014, 08:23:04 PM »
Eh, don't sweat it.  There is no rule that says your favorite band has to have your favorite song.

Yeah totally, I think it's safe to say Dream Theater is one of my favourite bands for consistency, musicianship and variety but a lot of my favourite songs of all time are one offs from bands that I never really got into, they just stumbled across a musical gem that clicked with me for one or two tracks and then they go back to their original direction or another direction that doesn't interest me. It happens to everyone.  :lol

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3976 on: March 04, 2014, 08:42:41 PM »
-The worst Dream Theater song written is any time Portnoy was singing


Oh hooray! Another Portnoy hater!  :\
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3977 on: March 04, 2014, 08:53:02 PM »
-Ministry of Lost Souls is the best Dream Theater song ever written
-The worst Dream Theater song written is any time Portnoy was singing

I sure do hate that Fatal Tragedy. But nothing's worse than Home!

Also, I just pulled up the video Ministry of Lost Souls from Chaos In Motion because I was 99% sure that Mike sang on that track (though I knew the "drowning in the past" part was John), and Mike definitely sings with James, at least live, on the "Living in a world without you" line.  :lol
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Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3978 on: March 04, 2014, 08:56:28 PM »
I'm pretty sure it's James on the album, though.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3979 on: March 04, 2014, 09:06:03 PM »
If it included songs that MP sang on live, that wouldn't leave much at all.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline MinistryOfLostSouls

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3980 on: March 04, 2014, 09:27:36 PM »
-The worst Dream Theater song written is any time Portnoy was singing


Oh hooray! Another Portnoy hater!  :\
-Ministry of Lost Souls is the best Dream Theater song ever written
-The worst Dream Theater song written is any time Portnoy was singing

I sure do hate that Fatal Tragedy. But nothing's worse than Home!

Also, I just pulled up the video Ministry of Lost Souls from Chaos In Motion because I was 99% sure that Mike sang on that track (though I knew the "drowning in the past" part was John), and Mike definitely sings with James, at least live, on the "Living in a world without you" line.  :lol

Portnoy probably sang on the album version, too.  I meant sections of music where he was contributing leads.  I just don't feel his voice was ever up to being on albums as a lead.  No disrespect meant.  His backing vocals, and harmonization skills, and understanding of complex harmony was always appreciated.  As a former contributing member of Dream Theater I most certainly do not hate Mike Portnoy.  He co-wrote some of the most bad ass Dream Theater songs in existence. 
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 09:50:15 PM by MinistryOfLostSouls »

Offline rumborak

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3981 on: March 04, 2014, 10:09:50 PM »
That MP's vocals weren't up to snuff is not exactly a controversial opinion. There's parts of LSFNY that are virtually unlistenable to because of his singing.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3982 on: March 04, 2014, 10:11:07 PM »
I find JLB's vocals much more bothersome than any of MP's on LSFNY. He sounds like a foghorn by the end of ACOS.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline XB0BX

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3983 on: March 04, 2014, 10:13:30 PM »
JLB was amazing on LSFNY.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3984 on: March 04, 2014, 10:14:46 PM »
LSFNY was the first time I'd ever heard DT live, and I was very letdown that JLB sounded nowhere near as good live as he did on the albums. By LTL/ACOS, he is sounding worn out.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3985 on: March 04, 2014, 10:36:05 PM »
I actually just watched ACOS, and yeah the high notes are strained at the end. But fuck, other than that, it's safe to say that that was their heyday. They don't look like a biker gang yet, MP is busting his ass behind the kit, and JP looks normal still. Oh, and JR still looked like Rowlf from the Muppet Show. Oh the days.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3986 on: March 04, 2014, 10:37:42 PM »
As much as I like LSFNY, it was also relatively sloppy for them. Budokan was a much better performance from them all around (even JLB, aside from PMU/ITNOG), and the video show didn't induce seizures. LSFNY was still climbing out of their dark period.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3987 on: March 04, 2014, 10:39:52 PM »
To each their own. To me, SFAM and LSFNY, despite the sketchy video editing, is for me the absolute pinnacle of the band. It was just now a joy watching them perform that tune.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3988 on: March 04, 2014, 10:42:34 PM »
I couldn't possible consider anything pre-SDOIT their pinnacle, since that's missing out on their best album, and JLB was not great live in the FII-SDOIT era. I'd have to say ToT era, despite JP's haircut.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline GasparXR

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #3989 on: March 04, 2014, 11:47:46 PM »
Portnoy probably sang on the album version, too.  I meant sections of music where he was contributing leads.  I just don't feel his voice was ever up to being on albums as a lead.  No disrespect meant.  His backing vocals, and harmonization skills, and understanding of complex harmony was always appreciated. As a former contributing member of Dream Theater I most certainly do not hate Mike Portnoy.  He co-wrote some of the most bad ass Dream Theater songs in existence. 

...Am I the only one who caught this? :lol
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