Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Jaffa]

Let me put it this way: I'll almost always go for the cheap seats. 

To me, the most important aspect of a concert (aside from the music itself, of course) is the live atmosphere.  The energy of the crowd, the pulse-pounding tension of being there, the experience of being a part of the music I love.  And the simple fact is, I can generally get that stuff from anywhere in the venue. 

[Perpetual Change]

But again, those prices are made up. They would probably be closer to $60, and $40 extra for front and center would be totally worth it to me.

At least in my area, it looks like the range is more like $50-60 for the absolute cheapest standing room tickets, and up to $120 for "front and center" seats. This year, it's not really a quesiton of whether I'll pick the cheap seats or not, but more of whether I'll actually go.

[TheGreatPretender]

Let me put it this way: I'll almost always go for the cheap seats. 

To me, the most important aspect of a concert (aside from the music itself, of course) is the live atmosphere.  The energy of the crowd, the pulse-pounding tension of being there, the experience of being a part of the music I love.  And the simple fact is, I can generally get that stuff from anywhere in the venue.

To me, the most important thing is being closer to the band. And pretty much every concert I go to here, at least ones with a pit, tend to have people practically fighting to be front and center. And usually, I fight for my spot with everything I have.

[Perpetual Change]

I definitely enjoy myself more when I just hang back, anyway. Especially if I'm seeing a long show, wwhere I know I'm gonna be fretting about leaving "my spot" if I want to use the bathroom or grab a beer. It IS a 3hr show, TGP - are you gonna show up as early as possible to get front and center place, and then stay there for the next 4 hours?

[rumborak]

But again, those prices are made up. They would probably be closer to $60, and $40 extra for front and center would be totally worth it to me.

At least in my area, it looks like the range is more like $50-60 for the absolute cheapest standing room tickets, and up to $120 for "front and center" seats. This year, it's not really a quesiton of whether I'll pick the cheap seats or not, but more of whether I'll actually go.

Ever since they started with the VIP seating, which frankly had the main effect of pushing the reasonably priced seats all the way back, I've essentially always gone for the cheapest option.
It used to be that seeing your favorite band up close meant clicking your thumbs raw at some ungodly hour (which however showed you're a fan). That has been plain replaced by who has the pockets to pay the $300 or more to get to the front. IIRC the last time I saw them they nowhere near sold out the expensive seats. So, us "hoi polloi" were standing far in the back, kept at a far distance artificially, with the big block of emptiness between us and the band.

[Jaffa]

Let me put it this way: I'll almost always go for the cheap seats. 

To me, the most important aspect of a concert (aside from the music itself, of course) is the live atmosphere.  The energy of the crowd, the pulse-pounding tension of being there, the experience of being a part of the music I love.  And the simple fact is, I can generally get that stuff from anywhere in the venue.

To me, the most important thing is being closer to the band. And pretty much every concert I go to here, at least ones with a pit, tend to have people practically fighting to be front and center. And usually, I fight for my spot with everything I have.

Yeah, see, I don't share these sentiments at all.  Being closer to the band is cool and all, but if I have to pay extra for the privilege or literally struggle for the opportunity, that kinda takes away from the whole experience for me.  I'd rather stand at the very back of the venue and enjoy myself than stand in the front and fret about getting trampled or shoved away.

[TheGreatPretender]

Yeah, see, I don't share these sentiments at all.  Being closer to the band is cool and all, but if I have to pay extra for the privilege or literally struggle for the opportunity, that kinda takes away from the whole experience for me.  I'd rather stand at the very back of the venue and enjoy myself than stand in the front and fret about getting trampled or shoved away.

I might share the sentiment if it's a band I've already seen up close several times. I've seen Fear Factory 3 times, and I was in the front every time, so next time I go see them, I'll probably take the balcony if it's available, and see them from above.

But DT, being my #1 favorite band, I have to see them as close as possible, especially if the place is seated and there's no shoving.

The thing is, for me it's the other way around. If the seats further back were REALLY cheap, like $25, then yeah, I'd understand. But if they're only about $40 less, then that $40 discount isn't worth  me giving up a seat that's close to the front.

[Jaffa]

Well, obviously you and I value different aspects of the concert experience.  Which is fine.  I was only offering a different perspective. 

[TheGreatPretender]

I understand, but still what I don't understand is how the center section of a venue could have so many gaps. Even if some people prefer cheaper, further seating, I'd think there's bound to be countless people who'd prefer the front center section for the extra price.

[davidolson22]

Ever since they started with the VIP seating, which frankly had the main effect of pushing the reasonably priced seats all the way back, I've essentially always gone for the cheapest option.
It used to be that seeing your favorite band up close meant clicking your thumbs raw at some ungodly hour (which however showed you're a fan). That has been plain replaced by who has the pockets to pay the $300 or more to get to the front. IIRC the last time I saw them they nowhere near sold out the expensive seats. So, us "hoi polloi" were standing far in the back, kept at a far distance artificially, with the big block of emptiness between us and the band.

That's capitalism. I don't see how it's that big of a deal.

[rumborak]

Ever since they started with the VIP seating, which frankly had the main effect of pushing the reasonably priced seats all the way back, I've essentially always gone for the cheapest option.
It used to be that seeing your favorite band up close meant clicking your thumbs raw at some ungodly hour (which however showed you're a fan). That has been plain replaced by who has the pockets to pay the $300 or more to get to the front. IIRC the last time I saw them they nowhere near sold out the expensive seats. So, us "hoi polloi" were standing far in the back, kept at a far distance artificially, with the big block of emptiness between us and the band.

That's capitalism. I don't see how it's that big of a deal.

It just didn't used to be that way, partially because artists were uncomfortable or unwilling to create this tiered system of fans, where the poor ones have to stay far away.
Believe it or not, some artists have ideals.

[rickhawk80]

This tour will be my first time to finally see DT live so I was contemplating whether to go for the pricey seats then I noticed that with the VIP seats I'd be in Row 2, but a regular $87 ticket I could still get Row 4 because the public sale does not start until later this week.  Saved myself some dough and took row 4 instead.    And the venue is an old theater with nice acoustics and a seating capacity of 1,700, so I'm expecting good things.

[King Postwhore]

I will never pay $300  for a ticket no matter what band it is.

[rickhawk80]

Most I've ever paid for a ticket is Van Halen at $100 on the last tour.  I still joke about the first time I really got sticker shock from a ticket price -- it was for the Rolling Stones in 1989 and the floor tickets were the shocking price of $35.    Mind you, this was at a time when you could see major acts for $15.  First KISS show I ever attended back in the 70s was $8. 

I'd kill to see major acts for $35 now....

[King Postwhore]

I payed over $100 for VH on the Sammy reunion (04?) and would never pay that for them again.

[rumborak]

I paid $100 for Rush a few years back, by accident. I told my friends "sure yeah, buy a ticket for me too" when they asked me. I assumed it would be around $50. Seriously, wtf, $100.

[BlobVanDam]

Most I've ever paid for a ticket is Van Halen at $100 on the last tour.  I still joke about the first time I really got sticker shock from a ticket price -- it was for the Rolling Stones in 1989 and the floor tickets were the shocking price of $35.    Mind you, this was at a time when you could see major acts for $15.  First KISS show I ever attended back in the 70s was $8. 

I'd kill to see major acts for $35 now....

Man, I'd kill to see a band for $100 a ticket here.
The Rolling Stones are playing here this year in an arena that fits about 15,000 people, with 3 elevations. The back couple of rows of the 3rd elevation were $200 for the cheapest tickets. The rest of the 3rd and 2nd elevations were $375. The 1st elevation and the floor would set you back $580 (yes, for $580, you could end up in elevated seating).
This show entirely sold out in a couple of hours.

There wasn't really a point to that story, other than complaining that ticket prices are even more ludicrous here.

When DT played here on the SC and BCASL tours, their tickets were about $120 for anywhere in the venue, which wasn't bad at all. Now I'd probably expect that to be more like $150 to be in line with recent increases in ticket prices here.

[bl5150]

Most I've ever paid for a ticket is Van Halen at $100 on the last tour.  I still joke about the first time I really got sticker shock from a ticket price -- it was for the Rolling Stones in 1989 and the floor tickets were the shocking price of $35.    Mind you, this was at a time when you could see major acts for $15.  First KISS show I ever attended back in the 70s was $8. 

I'd kill to see major acts for $35 now....

Man, I'd kill to see a band for $100 a ticket here.
The Rolling Stones are playing here this year in an arena that fits about 15,000 people, with 3 elevations. The back couple of rows of the 3rd elevation were $200 for the cheapest tickets. The rest of the 3rd and 2nd elevations were $375. The 1st elevation and the floor would set you back $580 (yes, for $580, you could end up in elevated seating).
This show entirely sold out in a couple of hours.

There wasn't really a point to that story, other than complaining that ticket prices are even more ludicrous here.

When DT played here on the SC and BCASL tours, their tickets were about $120 for anywhere in the venue, which wasn't bad at all. Now I'd probably expect that to be more like $150 to be in line with recent increases in ticket prices here.

Ditto that...................I don't know what sort of venues DT has played in Sydney in the past but in Melbourne we'll likely be paying $150 for some shitty under-used/maintained mid size venue like Festival Hall.   As mentioned elsewhere they're too big for the good small venues and too small for the good large venues.

Myer Music Bowl would be good but not sure how that'd go down semi-outdoors , depending on what they want to do with the show.  Or a couple of shows at the Palais Theater which has awesome sound. 

Having said that - in the end I'll be happy just to have them tour Australia.

[BlobVanDam]

As mentioned elsewhere they're too big for the good small venues and too small for the good large venues.

That's about right. The venue they play here is actually not bad luckily, but I've never seen any other band there. It's a bit of an odd inbetween venue, that holds about 5-6000 people. Smaller bands play the theatre that holds about 1,500, and bigger bands play either the entertainment center that holds about 10,000, the arena that holds about 15,000, or a few rare bands play the awful stadium that holds about 50,000.

DT are at a bit of an awkward level where they're far too big to play to 1,500 people here, but wouldn't be near big enough to play at the entertainment center (that's where Iron Maiden and Journey/Deep Purple played), or the stadium.

Maybe that's part of why it wasn't viable for them to come out here last tour. Smaller bands have had no trouble playing here multiple times in consecutive years, and larger bands have plenty of options. DT are too big to scale down, and too small to scale up. 

[Grizz]

Man, I'd kill to see a band for $100 a ticket here.
The Rolling Stones are playing here this year in an arena that fits about 15,000 people, with 3 elevations. The back couple of rows of the 3rd elevation were $200 for the cheapest tickets. The rest of the 3rd and 2nd elevations were $375. The 1st elevation and the floor would set you back $580 (yes, for $580, you could end up in elevated seating).
This show entirely sold out in a couple of hours.

When DT played here on the SC and BCASL tours, their tickets were about $120 for anywhere in the venue, which wasn't bad at all. Now I'd probably expect that to be more like $150 to be in line with recent increases in ticket prices here.

Are these AUD or USD? Either way there's a significant price gap but I'm just curious.

Also, I'm wondering if this was a move by the band itself or its management team?

[bl5150]

Blob and I are talking $AUD but it was only months ago that the $AUD was above parity with the $US.    So we're talking rough equivalents anyway , depending on the exchange rate at the time.

[BlobVanDam]

Blob and I are talking $AUD but it was only months ago that the $AUD was above parity with the $US.    So we're talking rough equivalents anyway , depending on the exchange rate at the time.

Yep, they've been close enough to level for a couple of years now.
The biggest reason for the difference in prices is just that we're a difficult country to tour. Our country is remote, so it costs a lot to ship everything over, and then the only places you can play are in the one major city of each state, so there are only a handful of places spread out over the entire continent that bands can play if they want to make a profit.

[Bolsters]

Our biggest cities aren't that big comparatively, either. Makes it harder for a band to fill out a big venue like they would in a North American or European city, and therefore less money per show (if they charged the same).

[Perpetual Change]

Ever since they started with the VIP seating, which frankly had the main effect of pushing the reasonably priced seats all the way back, I've essentially always gone for the cheapest option.
It used to be that seeing your favorite band up close meant clicking your thumbs raw at some ungodly hour (which however showed you're a fan). That has been plain replaced by who has the pockets to pay the $300 or more to get to the front. IIRC the last time I saw them they nowhere near sold out the expensive seats. So, us "hoi polloi" were standing far in the back, kept at a far distance artificially, with the big block of emptiness between us and the band.

That's capitalism. I don't see how it's that big of a deal.

It just didn't used to be that way, partially because artists were uncomfortable or unwilling to create this tiered system of fans, where the poor ones have to stay far away.
Believe it or not, some artists have ideals.

Not only that, but it's bad business. You can play a "sold out" show in a seated theater, or you can play a conventional hall that fits 3k, where everyone's standing or sitting in the back and the expensive seats aren't being filled. I'd imagine the band make more money booking the smaller venue, to be honest, even if they miss some potential to make a little more.

[puppyonacid]

If I may just chime in with a controversial opinion.

JM is the least imaginative in DTs line up. For the amount of time he dedicates to practicing I feel he doesn't shine enough, not even to the point that it's subtle. It just isn't there. I hear him better on the new CD and there are moments but I just feel underwhelmed by his playing these days.

[nikatapi]

If I may just chime in with a controversial opinion.

JM is the least imaginative in DTs line up. For the amount of time he dedicates to practicing I feel he doesn't shine enough, not even to the point that it's subtle. It just isn't there. I hear him better on the new CD and there are moments but I just feel underwhelmed by his playing these days.

Agreed. I think that after Octavarium his contributions are becoming less and less evident and interesting.

[JiM-Xtreme]

I don't think it's right for any of us to declare which member has the least imagination. We can only really judge that on the merit of the contributions they actually bring forward. In the case of JLB and JM, those guys are mostly overshadowed by JP and JR who write pretty much all of the music and melodies. Their respective roles in the band are pretty well established at this point.

However, if we're basing it entirely on whose contributions are the least interesting, I would disagree and say that that "award" goes to JLB. Love his singing, but I was never crazy about his lyrics. Also, bear in mind that a lot of the time he's not even the one coming up with the melodies he sings.

[puppyonacid]

I like JLB - I think he has a solid attitude and for all the cringe worthy moments I feel with his singing, there are just as many "fuck yea!" moments.

I don't really want this turning in to a JLB vs JM debate.

I'd certainly wager though that JM is much more dedicated to his chosen instrument than JLB is to his. Pretty much every shot of him in every backstage documentary see's him with bass in hand, beavering away around the fretboard.

I do like his playing don't get me wrong, but for someone that dedicated with that sort of technical affluence, I'd just expect a bit more really.

[CrimsonE]

I've never been one to think I have to sit up front, and in fact, the concert experience is usually better when I can take in the entire show, rather than be in front of a single musician.  I've been to a couple of hundred shows since the late 80's, and I've been up front for less than a couple of dozen of them, and it's usually not that much better than being in the back. 

For me the ideal seat for an arena show is in the back, lower level center.  That way I can take in the entire experience, while not having to crane my neck too much to see the band. 

[TheGreatPretender]

I always feel like (probably due to being spoiled by DVDs with closeups and such) even being as far back as, say, the 5th row or so, the whole stage just shrinks like crazy. I feel like the band is miles away.

[Shade]

Controversial opinion:

Jumping on the JM bashing wagon, if DT hypothetically had to find a new bassist and used the same kind of process as they did with picking MM, and JM was auditioning, they would not pick JM. Given that with the drummers it came down to so much more than technical ability, I simply don't think JM would fit the image if who the band wants in their lineup.

I'm not for a second doubting his technical ability, but I think there are many other bassists out there who can match him and provide a more interesting character for the band.

[JiM-Xtreme]

Fair enough, but you've got to keep in mind how much JM and JP have in common to begin with. Even if they were meeting for the first time now, they'd still find that being the same age, sharing most of the same core influences and growing up in the same part of the world (which was a factor in MM's audition) would do a lot for their musical chemistry and personal relationship.

[TheGreatPretender]

Yeah, but you have to keep in mind just how friendly and extroverted MM is. If JP and JM met for the first time now, imagine JM being in an environment of musicians he's never really worked with. I mean, I'm not saying he would or wouldn't get it, but it would be a very different dynamic from when MM auditioned.

[MonagFam]

Interesting JM discussion on the recent posts.  I am a big JM fan, but I wonder if the JM we were introduced to was on the albums prior to ADTOE when it felt (to me at least) that JM just did what JP did.  In fairness, keeping up with JP is probably no small feat, but it doesn't make him stand out as with the earlier albums, and I doubt that alone gets him the recognition his skills deserve. 

Does a JM without DT ever get the kind of Top-7 rating that puts him into an audition group?   Part of why I wonder that, is I've heard him with other bands like Platypus/Jelly Jam, where you might feel he'll really let loose, but ends up just being support.  Maybe that's what he prefers. 

It's nice to see him contribute more, and it's no doubt to me that he is an elite bassist, I just wish I felt like he wasn't overshadowed so much. 

[davidolson22]

Does a JM without DT ever get the kind of Top-7 rating that puts him into an audition group?   Part of why I wonder that, is I've heard him with other bands like Platypus/Jelly Jam, where you might feel he'll really let loose, but ends up just being support.  Maybe that's what he prefers. 

Everytime I listen to those albums, a piece of me dies. I keep expecting to be like, "Listen to that bass! Everyone come here! It's awesome!" Instead I'm like, "don't bother coming over here, it's just the usual crap."