Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Lucien]

It wasn't that hard to understand.

[orcus116]

I don't really buy the solo project excuse. If you've got something new to share, why not flesh it out with some of the most talented musicians in the world?

[GasparXR]

It wasn't that hard to understand.

Just to clarify, I understood it. I just replaced his post in the quote to try to be funny.

[Onno]

Here's my (not sure if) controversial opinion: the sound of the LALP CDs is utter garbage. It sounds extremely muddy and the guitar mostly just drowns out everything. JMX is inaudible, JR is too sometimes and the drums sound OK only when there's (almost) nothing else playing. The cymbals sound extremely thin and short and the snare drum hits lack punch. Really, the only thing about it that actually sounds good is JLB.

[jakepriest]

I like the LALP mix much better than the Merry Christmas release. Except for the keyboards.

[Sycsa]

Here's my (not sure if) controversial opinion: the sound of the LALP CDs is utter garbage. It sounds extremely muddy and the guitar mostly just drowns out everything. JMX is inaudible, JR is too sometimes and the drums sound OK only when there's (almost) nothing else playing. The cymbals sound extremely thin and short and the snare drum hits lack punch. Really, the only thing about it that actually sounds good is JLB.

Agreed on all counts, plus I hate the backing tracks and the click. I was kind of OK with it when it first came out, but now that the novelty has faded away, I simply can't stand listening to it. The holiday release was a breath of fresh air in the mixing department.

[BlobVanDam]

I like the LALP mix much better than the Merry Christmas release. Except for the keyboards.

LALP was a bit more polished overall, although I prefer the balance of instruments overall on the Christmas release.

[mikeyd23]

Overall, the quality of the sounds on LaLP are much better, but the balance of instruments is better on the Holiday Album. I was actually surprised at the volume of the keys throughout the songs on the Holiday Album.  Has DT ever released live songs that were professionally mixed with the keys consistently that high in the mix?

[Sycsa]

Live Scenes has pretty loud keys, in some instances (BTL, FT, STV, Home...) a lot louder and more prominent than on SFAM.

[jakepriest]

I wish every DT album and live release had loud and prominent keys. Jordan plays some amazing stuff that never gets to be heard.

[MonagFam]

I wish every DT album and live release had loud and prominent keys. Jordan plays some amazing stuff that never gets to be heard.

I feel the same way about Myung. 

[BlobVanDam]

I wish every DT album and live release had loud and prominent keys. Jordan plays some amazing stuff that never gets to be heard.

I feel the same way about Myung. 

They should just turn everyone up equally, to make sure everyone gets heard. Problem solved!

[Lucien]

JP should let JM be the producer

[Outcrier]

Also, forgive me if I misinterpret what you are saying here, but for the sake of argument, are you saying that if someone who was a DT fan for years just listened to I&W today, they wouldn't rank it very high? Or are you simply comparing this to someone who had listened to I&W from the very beginning, and had that nostalgic connection ? I&W was one of the last DT albums I got into, and I think it's in their top 3 albums.

It can happen or no, you can genuinely think an album is or isn't good as the other, having nothing to do with the one you listened first. Like i already said, the two things already happened to me so...

[TheGreatPretender]

I wish every DT album and live release had loud and prominent keys. Jordan plays some amazing stuff that never gets to be heard.

I felt like the keys on I&W were a tad too loud. It really does make a dramatic difference between making a band sound like a Prog Rock and Prog Metal. I feel like if they focused on making the keyboards really loud, DT would lose some of their Metal edge, because then JP's badass guitar riffs would be smothered by the keyboard.

[jakepriest]

I wish every DT album and live release had loud and prominent keys. Jordan plays some amazing stuff that never gets to be heard.

I felt like the keys on I&W were a tad too loud. It really does make a dramatic difference between making a band sound like a Prog Rock and Prog Metal. I feel like if they focused on making the keyboards really loud, DT would lose some of their Metal edge, because then JP's badass guitar riffs would be smothered by the keyboard.

I feel like that's more a problem of the guitar mastering and tone that made the metal riffs sound way less metal.

For example the louder keyboards on TCOT in the holiday release make the chorus much better when you can actually hear the epic Rudess part. Louder keyboard in ITNOG on Budokan also make the song better for me. 

[rumborak]

I really don't like JP's new guitar sound I have to say. On the holiday fan release, when he goes into UAGM "chugga chugga" mode, you can't even hear the low E string. All you hear is the weird overtones.

[Grizz]

JP should let JM be the producer

We have to be able to hear the album.

[a51502112]

Frankly, JPs lipsyncing is embarrassing. It makes me Lol.

[Lucien]

JP should let JM be the producer

We have to be able to hear the album.

 

[The Stray Seed]

I wish every DT album and live release had loud and prominent keys. Jordan plays some amazing stuff that never gets to be heard.

I felt like the keys on I&W were a tad too loud. It really does make a dramatic difference between making a band sound like a Prog Rock and Prog Metal. I feel like if they focused on making the keyboards really loud, DT would lose some of their Metal edge, because then JP's badass guitar riffs would be smothered by the keyboard.

Totally agree.

[King Postwhore]

I wish every DT album and live release had loud and prominent keys. Jordan plays some amazing stuff that never gets to be heard.

I felt like the keys on I&W were a tad too loud. It really does make a dramatic difference between making a band sound like a Prog Rock and Prog Metal. I feel like if they focused on making the keyboards really loud, DT would lose some of their Metal edge, because then JP's badass guitar riffs would be smothered by the keyboard.

Totally agree.

Except that DT is all of this.  That's why I love them.  Sometimes more prog and sometimes more metal.  There is no need for them to pigeonhole themselves.

[Prog Snob]

Isn't it weird how PMU ends so abruptly

[King Postwhore]

Isn't it weird how PMU ends so abruptly

Just like sex.  PMO though.

[Prog Snob]

Isn't it weird how PMU ends so abruptly

Just like sex.  PMO though.

Pull My Ovaries?

[King Postwhore]

Isn't it weird how PMU ends so abruptly

Just like sex.  PMO though.

Pull My Ovaries?

Out.

[TheGreatPretender]

Except that DT is all of this.  That's why I love them.  Sometimes more prog and sometimes more metal.  There is no need for them to pigeonhole themselves.

I agree. I just think that certain songs on I&W needed a little more attitude. I love it for what it is, and I think it's one of the greatest albums ever, but if I were to introduce Dream Theater to someone, I would stay away from I&W because I feel like on the whole, it doesn't accurately represent Dream Theater's overall sound. It reaches perfection in the Prog category, but aside from Pull Me Under, there's very little about it that I'd consider Metal. So in that respect, it's not a very balanced album.

I feel like that's more a problem of the guitar mastering and tone that made the metal riffs sound way less metal.

For example the louder keyboards on TCOT in the holiday release make the chorus much better when you can actually hear the epic Rudess part. Louder keyboard in ITNOG on Budokan also make the song better for me. 

You may be right. But I still don't think JR's keyboards need to be any louder than they are on the albums. Yes, sometimes there are some truly great moments that get a little lost, but that's one of the best parts of DT's music, is that those moments are still there. And with enough listens, you'll notice them, and you'll think, "Oh man, I never really noticed that little keyboard passage that JR is playing! That's so cool!" And you end up discovering something new about the song. And from then on, you'll hear it every time. That's one of the many things I love about DT.

[Zook]

I wish DT would write more songs like I Walk Beside You.










So they should do more collaborations with U2


But IWBY is awesome.

[TheGreatPretender]

I wish DT would write more songs like I Walk Beside You.










So they should do more collaborations with U2


But IWBY is awesome.

I'm not a fan of U2 at all. But the thing about DT is that no matter how many influences they borrow from, whether it be U2, Coldplay, Muse, Evanescence, or whatever other band, at the end of the day, the songs they come out with may have certain elements of those bands, but they're still Dream Theater songs. So even if you think it sounds like U2, or Muse, or whatever, it's more like, you can always look at it this way, what if those other bands started to sound more like Dream Theater? I think their music would be so much better. So just the same, it's still DT, just with a different flavor, and so it's still awesome.

[rumborak]

That argument has its limit though. It's obviously down to personal perception of where that limit is, but I think there's a decent percentage of fans for whom that line was crossed an uncomfortably amount of times.

[Zook]

Sounding like U2 is so much better than sounding like Muse.

[TheGreatPretender]

That argument has its limit though. It's obviously down to personal perception of where that limit is, but I think there's a decent percentage of fans for whom that line was crossed an uncomfortably amount of times.

Sure. But still, you can't say that I Walk Beside You sounds 100% like a U2 song. Or that Forsaken sounds 100% like an Evanescence song, etc.

I also feel like a lot of those fans that you speak of are the same ones that someone mentioned earlier, how a lot of people mainly appreciate DT for their prog side, or for their metal side, and they don't enjoy the bigger picture.
I could be wrong, but I find it difficult to understand how someone who, let's say, likes every DT album from 1989 to 2003, but then suddenly dislikes Octavarium because it has Muse, U2 and Coldplay influences. Because everything they'd done up until that point varied greatly, and I think it takes an eclectic taste in music to appreciate all of Dream Theater as it is. So I find it hard to believe that people who do have that kind of an eclectic taste would suddenly be put off by a few influences of some mainstream rock bands.

[Prog Snob]

Sounding like U2 is so much better than sounding like Muse.

[orcus116]

That argument has its limit though. It's obviously down to personal perception of where that limit is, but I think there's a decent percentage of fans for whom that line was crossed an uncomfortably amount of times.

Sure. But still, you can't say that I Walk Beside You sounds 100% like a U2 song. Or that Forsaken sounds 100% like an Evanescence song, etc.

I also feel like a lot of those fans that you speak of are the same ones that someone mentioned earlier, how a lot of people mainly appreciate DT for their prog side, or for their metal side, and they don't enjoy the bigger picture.
I could be wrong, but I find it difficult to understand how someone who, let's say, likes every DT album from 1989 to 2003, but then suddenly dislikes Octavarium because it has Muse, U2 and Coldplay influences. Because everything they'd done up until that point varied greatly, and I think it takes an eclectic taste in music to appreciate all of Dream Theater as it is. So I find it hard to believe that people who do have that kind of an eclectic taste would suddenly be put off by a few influences of some mainstream rock bands.

There's having influences and then there's actually writing a riff/chorus/song that actually tries to emulate a particular band's style/tone/musical vocabulary/phrasing/etc. With the latter, it's no longer "oh I can kind of hear the influence" but more "holy crap, he's actually trying to sound exactly like Matt Bellamy" (using Never Enough as the example).

The only time DT ever really pulled off a clone well, IMO, is The Way It Used To Be. Very clearly U2 style but still retains that DT sound from the FII era.

[TheGreatPretender]

There's having influences and then there's actually writing a riff/chorus/song that actually tries to emulate a particular band's style/tone/musical vocabulary/phrasing/etc. With the latter, it's no longer "oh I can kind of hear the influence" but more "holy crap, he's actually trying to sound exactly like Matt Bellamy" (using Never Enough as the example).

The only time DT ever really pulled off a clone well, IMO, is The Way It Used To Be. Very clearly U2 style but still retains that DT sound from the FII era.

Are you talking about JP or JLB?

Honestly, if I didn't know, I would have guessed that they were just trying something a little different. The solo section of Never Enough still very much has a DT vibe to it. I guess if you're really familiar with those other bands and you really don't like them, then I can see how you'd be put off by those songs.
But then, if you really don't like those bands, I don't see why you'd familiarize yourself with their music enough to notice something like that anyway. I've heard some U2 songs in the past, and it didn't garner my interest one bit. If you ask me, U2 sounds like a bland, wishy washy soft rock band. (If you disagree, I apologize, that's just my opinion.) But any DT song that's ever displayed influences of U2, whether it's The Way It Used To Be, IWBY or To Live Forever, still sounded much better.

If nothing else, JLB's vocals still make it sound like DT. His voice is one of a kind.