Your Controversial Opinions on DT

Started by Lucidity, December 17, 2012, 07:28:25 PM

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The Boomr

Quote from: Kotowboy on August 14, 2013, 11:43:15 AM
I've never listened to When Dream And Day Unite - and i've no intention of listening to it.


Does anyone else think it's a bit mad that there's only 2 of the WDADU line up still in the band ?

Since I'm an Opeth fan, nah, not that weird :lol

aprilethereal

:lol

Same for me + I'm also a Megadeth fan :lol

And there are some great songs on WDADU

Whatsername

The Spirit Carries On is the best song on SFAM.

....

Am I doing this right? :P

Shadow Ninja 2.0


Whatsername

I'm a huge fan of their "cheesier" songs. Maybe it's the pop sensibilities in me that still gravitate towards their cheesy ballads.

Shadow Ninja 2.0

Well, I'm a power metal fan at heart, so I have no problems with cheesiness. :lol

TheGreatPretender

I was going to agree with that, but then The Dance Of Eternity came up to me and punched me in the face with its rag time solo.

Shadow Ninja 2.0


The Boomr

Quote from: aprilethereal on August 14, 2013, 11:52:59 AM
:lol

Same for me + I'm also a Megadeth fan :lol

And there are some great songs on WDADU

There certainly are! I go with Ninja's assertion. LISTEN TO WDADU. NAO.   :metal

Shadow Ninja 2.0

Yeah, even if you don't like it, it's only about an hour out of your day.

aprilethereal

IN THE AAAFTERLIIFE :metal


Quote from: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on August 14, 2013, 11:59:37 AM
Yeah, even if you don't like it, it's only about an hour out of your day.

*insert random "dream and day" joke here*

Whatsername

Quote from: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on August 14, 2013, 11:56:30 AM
Well, I'm a power metal fan at heart, so I have no problems with cheesiness. :lol

:tup

It's also really uplifting and emotional, and it delivers after such an emotional build-up.

Similarly, Octavarium is a fucking incredible song, and Intervals --> Razor's Edge is one of the most perfect pieces of music DT has ever penned.

Edit: In my opinion. I sound really big-headed in these posts. xD

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: The Boomr on August 14, 2013, 11:57:48 AM
Quote from: aprilethereal on August 14, 2013, 11:52:59 AM
:lol

Same for me + I'm also a Megadeth fan :lol

And there are some great songs on WDADU

There certainly are! I go with Ninja's assertion. LISTEN TO WDADU. NAO.   :metal

Although, if he listened to Live at the Marquee, Live at Budokan and Score, he's heard the bare essentials of WDADU anyway.

Whatsername

Quote from: TheGreatPretender on August 14, 2013, 12:07:03 PM
Quote from: The Boomr on August 14, 2013, 11:57:48 AM
Quote from: aprilethereal on August 14, 2013, 11:52:59 AM
:lol

Same for me + I'm also a Megadeth fan :lol

And there are some great songs on WDADU

There certainly are! I go with Ninja's assertion. LISTEN TO WDADU. NAO.   :metal

Although, if he listened to Live at the Marquee, Live at Budokan and Score, he's heard the bare essentials of WDADU anyway.

Sorry to commandeer the conversation, but I have a question. If I've already listened to Score, which of the WDADU songs should I still listen to?

Shadow Ninja 2.0

All of them. But The Killing Hand is my favorite, Charlie's weak high note at the end notwithstanding.

The Boomr

Quote from: TheGreatPretender on August 14, 2013, 12:07:03 PM
Quote from: The Boomr on August 14, 2013, 11:57:48 AM
Quote from: aprilethereal on August 14, 2013, 11:52:59 AM
:lol

Same for me + I'm also a Megadeth fan :lol

And there are some great songs on WDADU

There certainly are! I go with Ninja's assertion. LISTEN TO WDADU. NAO.   :metal

Although, if he listened to Live at the Marquee, Live at Budokan and Score, he's heard the bare essentials of WDADU anyway.

Good point! The recordings on Marquee are freaking AMAZING imo, James is at his height of prowess. There's a couple funky ornamentations he does that really don't fit (like trying to make TKH change to major before it is supposed to....wtf, man?? :lol ), but his voice is stellar.

Someone confirm for me cause I can't check right now, but aren't JLB's ridiculous high screams throughout TKH high G's?

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: Whatsername on August 14, 2013, 12:07:53 PM
Sorry to commandeer the conversation, but I have a question. If I've already listened to Score, which of the WDADU songs should I still listen to?

Well, Score had Afterlife. Personally, I'd say if you listen to "The Killing Hand", "Ytsejam", "A Fortune In Lies" and "Only A Matter Of Time" (in that order of priority) you've heard all that's really worth hearing on the album. Then maybe "Status Seeker" but the other 2 are kind of neither here nor there.

Whatsername

Thanks, TGP. I'll check out the others out then! I'd assume that listening to the versions from WDADU would be better than any live performances or anything I might stumble across?

TheGreatPretender

Well, personally, like someone mentioned, the best version of The Killing Hand is probably on Live at the Marquee album. I mean, personally, I enjoy listening to JLB versions more in general. And WDADU wasn't that well recorded anyway, so it's not like you'll get full on super high studio quality out of it.
If you just wanted to hear all the songs from the album, I'd say just go for When Dream And Day Reunite for convenience sake.

Plus I'm sure there's gonna be a few people here who'd say, "What? You can you leave out the other two songs! They're my favorite! TGP is wrong!"

The Boomr

Quote from: Whatsername on August 14, 2013, 12:51:56 PM
Thanks, TGP. I'll check out the others out then! I'd assume that listening to the versions from WDADU would be better than any live performances or anything I might stumble across?

Imo, the live performances on Marquee are much better than the WDADU versions. Marquee only has A Fortune in Lies and Killing Hand, though. I've heard some people say that they think Dominici sings A Fortune in Lies better because he has more finesse than JLB. I can see where they're coming from, because on Marquee JLB is kinda just balls to the walls on most everything! But I like it that way, and I honestly like the sound of all the instruments and the mix from Marquee better than WDADU. I agree Killing Hand is the best of the album, though.

While I prefer JLB's recordings on Marquee, I actually prefer listening to Dominici on WDADU rather than JLB on WDADRU because JLB just... :/ It's a little sad. It was recorded at probably the worst point for him, vocally.

You should listen to the entire original album, if you want the right to say you're a true DT fan :biggrin:

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: The Boomr on August 14, 2013, 01:10:02 PM
While I prefer JLB's recordings on Marquee, I actually prefer listening to Dominici on WDADU rather than JLB on WDADRU because JLB just... :/ It's a little sad. It was recorded at probably the worst point for him, vocally.

It's not that bad, and I highly doubt it was the worst point for him. I'd imagine the worst point would be right after the accident, when he constantly had on and off days.

On WDADRU his voice didn't crack or anything, so it was a good day for him. Of course, it was the end of an otherwise typical 3 hour set, but he sounds just fine, IMO.

If you really want to hear him at his worst, just listen to this performance of Another Day, from 1999. God, it hurts my throat just listening to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BzBdALjpS8c&t=2117

BTW, if I'm not allowed to post that particular concert on here, feel free to edit it out, mods. But I'm pretty sure this isn't from any official release or official bootleg or anything, so it's okay, right?

Whatsername

Quote from: The Boomr on August 14, 2013, 01:10:02 PM
Quote from: Whatsername on August 14, 2013, 12:51:56 PM
Thanks, TGP. I'll check out the others out then! I'd assume that listening to the versions from WDADU would be better than any live performances or anything I might stumble across?

Imo, the live performances on Marquee are much better than the WDADU versions. Marquee only has A Fortune in Lies and Killing Hand, though. I've heard some people say that they think Dominici sings A Fortune in Lies better because he has more finesse than JLB. I can see where they're coming from, because on Marquee JLB is kinda just balls to the walls on most everything! But I like it that way, and I honestly like the sound of all the instruments and the mix from Marquee better than WDADU. I agree Killing Hand is the best of the album, though.

While I prefer JLB's recordings on Marquee, I actually prefer listening to Dominici on WDADU rather than JLB on WDADRU because JLB just... :/ It's a little sad. It was recorded at probably the worst point for him, vocally.

You should listen to the entire original album, if you want the right to say you're a true DT fan :biggrin:

That's sold it for me then. I'll have to get ahold of it to listen to it, even though my JLB fangirl heart will be saddened by not hearing his vocals. :\

Onno

WDADRU was not James' worst show by far, but it isn't his best either. His vocals have gotten a lot better since then.

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: Whatsername on August 14, 2013, 01:21:20 PM
That's sold it for me then. I'll have to get ahold of it to listen to it, even though my JLB fangirl heart will be saddened by not hearing his vocals. :\

Well, after listening to it, nobody's stopping you from listening to it again from JLB on the Reunite performance, or other WDADU performances from various live shows.

Lucidity

I think Solitary Shell is one of the best songs DT have ever written.

Onno

Quote from: Lucidity on August 14, 2013, 01:25:25 PM
I think Solitary Shell is one of the best songs DT have ever written.
Solitary Shell is really, really great.

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: Onno on August 14, 2013, 01:27:43 PM
Quote from: Lucidity on August 14, 2013, 01:25:25 PM
I think Solitary Shell is one of the best songs DT have ever written.
Solitary Shell is really, really great.

But I certainly wouldn't go as far as to say 'the best'. So definitely controversial.

The Boomr

Quote from: Whatsername on August 14, 2013, 01:21:20 PM
That's sold it for me then. I'll have to get ahold of it to listen to it, even though my JLB fangirl heart will be saddened by not hearing his vocals. :\

Think of it this way: If you discover all the songs from WDADU from the original recording, listen a few times, pick some favorites, and then RE-discover how amazing those songs become when you find a better recording of JLB doing it, it'll be an amazing experience! :)


Onno

Quote from: TheGreatPretender on August 14, 2013, 01:28:59 PM
Quote from: Onno on August 14, 2013, 01:27:43 PM
Quote from: Lucidity on August 14, 2013, 01:25:25 PM
I think Solitary Shell is one of the best songs DT have ever written.
Solitary Shell is really, really great.

But I certainly wouldn't go as far as to say 'the best'. So definitely controversial.
Well, I consider 6DOIT as being one song, and Solitary Shell is definitely one of the best parts of the song.

The Boomr

Quote from: Lucidity on August 14, 2013, 01:25:25 PM
I think Solitary Shell is one of the best songs DT have ever written.

:tup !!! Yeah! That's like one of those hidden favorites in the back of my head! It's one of the only Dream Theater songs that I absolutely cannot resist singing along to EVERY time I hear it :) And even though the song isn't exactly happy and positive in it's lyrical content, the music is sooooo uplifting for me. Will bring me out of almost any slump :)

And just to say it, with my classical background, SDOIT is a single piece of music, with 8 movements. Song is actually a specific form of music, so it's not technically correct, but I tend to use song and movement interchangeably with those such as Solitary Shell.

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: Onno on August 14, 2013, 01:31:10 PM
Well, I consider 6DOIT as being one song, and Solitary Shell is definitely one of the best parts of the song.

I'm not denying that.

Of course, it follows Test That Stumped Them All, and Goodnight Kiss, which I think are the low points of the suite, so Solitary Shell really shines after sitting through those two.

The Boomr

Quote from: TheGreatPretender on August 14, 2013, 01:20:58 PM
It's not that bad, and I highly doubt it was the worst point for him. I'd imagine the worst point would be right after the accident, when he constantly had on and off days.

On WDADRU his voice didn't crack or anything, so it was a good day for him. Of course, it was the end of an otherwise typical 3 hour set, but he sounds just fine, IMO.

If you really want to hear him at his worst, just listen to this performance of Another Day, from 1999. God, it hurts my throat just listening to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BzBdALjpS8c&t=2117

BTW, if I'm not allowed to post that particular concert on here, feel free to edit it out, mods. But I'm pretty sure this isn't from any official release or official bootleg or anything, so it's okay, right?

His voice definitely cracks at several points in WDADRU. Definitely not as bad as those cracks in that recording of Another Day, but they are cracks. But the worse part on WDADRU is that he's out of tune so much. The melodies that worked decently for Charlie's voice don't work so well in James' voice, especially when he's not at the top of his game. I wanted to like WDADRU more than the original, so much, but every time I try to listen to it in the original's place, I just can't do it. Maybe I need to make an amalgam collection of the ones from Marquee, Score, WDADRU, and WDADU, picking the very best overall version of each song.

Kotowboy

Quote from: Onno on August 14, 2013, 01:27:43 PM
Quote from: Lucidity on August 14, 2013, 01:25:25 PM
I think Solitary Shell is one of the best songs DT have ever written.
Solitary Shell is really, really great.

My friend who loves Peter Gabriel said it's just a copy of Solsbury Hill. So I had a listen and honestly - I prefer Solitary Shell. :P

Shadow Ninja 2.0

Quote from: The Boomr on August 14, 2013, 01:37:23 PM
Quote from: TheGreatPretender on August 14, 2013, 01:20:58 PM
It's not that bad, and I highly doubt it was the worst point for him. I'd imagine the worst point would be right after the accident, when he constantly had on and off days.

On WDADRU his voice didn't crack or anything, so it was a good day for him. Of course, it was the end of an otherwise typical 3 hour set, but he sounds just fine, IMO.

If you really want to hear him at his worst, just listen to this performance of Another Day, from 1999. God, it hurts my throat just listening to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BzBdALjpS8c&t=2117

BTW, if I'm not allowed to post that particular concert on here, feel free to edit it out, mods. But I'm pretty sure this isn't from any official release or official bootleg or anything, so it's okay, right?

His voice definitely cracks at several points in WDADRU. Definitely not as bad as those cracks in that recording of Another Day, but they are cracks. But the worse part on WDADRU is that he's out of tune so much. The melodies that worked decently for Charlie's voice don't work so well in James' voice, especially when he's not at the top of his game. I wanted to like WDADRU more than the original, so much, but every time I try to listen to it in the original's place, I just can't do it. Maybe I need to make an amalgam collection of the ones from Marquee, Score, WDADRU, and WDADU, picking the very best overall version of each song.

Charlie was amazing on WDADRU, though. At least the few parts he sang.

TheGreatPretender

Quote from: The Boomr on August 14, 2013, 01:37:23 PM
The melodies that worked decently for Charlie's voice don't work so well in James' voice, especially when he's not at the top of his game.

Well, I think the main problem is that for the most part, the vocal melodies on WDADU weren't very well written. It's by far the most amateurish sounding aspect of the entire album. If they had better vocal melodies and a singer whose voice better fit the kind of notes they wanted to hit, the whole album would have sounded so much better.
Nothing against Charlie's voice, but I completely agree with MP when he said that Charlie's range doesn't suit this genre of music. I'd love to hear Charlie do a Jazz album.