Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 687405 times)

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Offline darkshade

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10885 on: June 26, 2021, 05:29:06 AM »
SoA sound  just like another one of MPs side projects that will likely last a maximum of 3 studio albums and 3 live DVDs then call it a day before he moves on.

He needs to stop writing and recording all his albums in like a a week and really focus on writing a GREAT album that will stand up

to DT's best work. Didn't SOA have two songs that sounded exactly the same on their last album ?

That's what happens when you force yourself to write an hour of music in 7 days.

Especially with new bands where chemistry hasn't been established yet.
It would make more sense if there was more improv involved in MP's side projects, but there rarely is.
With Neal Morse-related projects, it's one thing, because Neal (and Roine in TA) have massive amounts of ideas to bring in every session, and at this point, MP has been working with those guys for over 20 years.
With rock or prog related music, there needs to be a marinating phase, otherwise, the music sounds unfinished. That's when you get songs that have choruses that don't sound like they fit with the verses surrounding them, and then you also get pretty standard (boring) song structures.

Offline gzarruk

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10886 on: June 26, 2021, 09:19:02 AM »
It's also one thing to write an album with Neal Morse (who could write half of it while he's having lunch), and other people who need more time to craft their songs and musical ideas. In the case of SOA, they're all incredible musicians, but that doesn't mean they can write great stuff by themselves.
As stated before, Bumblefoot doesn't really write memorable riffs/melodies and even Derek relies heavily on co-writers (like Simon Phillips) for his solo stuff. Mike doesn't write (almost) at all and he can only use his production/arranging skills with the material the other guys bring in.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Online HOF

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10887 on: June 26, 2021, 09:27:27 AM »
I wish they had gone with the PSMS lineup and brought in a different singer (no idea who). Not sure what kind of health MacAlpine was in at that point, but there was already chemistry and history there with the four of them all having worked together and on separate projects.

Offline darkshade

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10888 on: June 26, 2021, 10:13:53 AM »
It does highlight the fact that Dream Theater, with all their skills and technique, have songwriting skills to back them up, and always have. While I am not the biggest fan of the Mangini era, I'll still listen to those albums, even The Astonishing, over much of MP's own projects since his departure, I admit I haven't heard every album by every band MP has formed since 2010, either. Most of what he's been involved with that I listen to more frequently are projects related to DT (LTE3, Terminal Velocity) or involving those who can write good music (Neal Morse, TA, Roine Stolt, etc..) and he had been working with them when he was in DT as well. So to me, no project created since his leaving the band has left a memorable impression on me, aside from a few tracks from Flying Colors; and The Neal Morse Band is more than just Neal solo, that's a band with input from all members, so that's a good new band. They really are Spock's Theater, with the guitarist Eric Gillette bringing in JP-isms previously unheard on Neal Morse albums, but without being a JP clone and having his own style.

To me, much of his projects over the last 10-12 years seem like hooking up with any working musician that MP had communication with and was available just because MP was "out of a job", and putting out some sounds for the sake of it, instead of there being more natural connection or gelling of the musicians to create something cool, creative, and new.

I always hoped MP would form the Mike Portnoy Group (MPG) featuring a lineup of great musicians but whom could write music and collaborate with Mike and his creative vision (something which can only take you so far depending on the wealth of creative ideas the other musicians have)
« Last Edit: June 26, 2021, 10:20:29 AM by darkshade »

Offline Stadler

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10889 on: June 26, 2021, 02:27:41 PM »

I don't know what AOR singers you listen to but Jeff doesn't sound like that at all.  I'm not saying I love SoA.  I find them average at best but I don't hear Jeff singing radio songs.

Hahaha he was literally in Journey (albeit for a short while).

Idk, his voice just sounds like quintessential 80s cheese to me- that Stan Bush, Robert Tepper, Joe Lynn Turner vibe. Hes a talented vocalist, for sure- I just have a hard time taking him seriously.

I wouldn't put Joe Lynn Turner in the same boat.   At any given time he's my favorite singer in Rainbow (yes, I know what I'm saying there) and I don't see much similarity with Jeff.

Jeff might have been in Journey, but that doesn't make it a good fit, so there's that.

And all respect to Kotowboy, but I think the "take time to write" thing is overblown.  The guys can and do bring in things from outside, so the "writing" isn't the issue to me.  I think it's the categories.   It's the "this is my PROG project, this is my METAL project, this is my prog metal project".   The best of his work - both within and without DT - was independent of genre.   I LOVED I&W because it WASN'T stuck in a genre rut.   it's only when they started to get specific - ToT: this is our metal album - that it started to sort of suffer.  Neal is hardcore prog, no doubt, but there's less rigidity in the NM/NMB/TA stuff than some of the other projects, which, to me, tend to be more one-dimensional.  No mystery which ones I like better.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2021, 05:09:25 PM by Stadler »

Offline emtee

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10890 on: June 26, 2021, 02:35:50 PM »
Yeah, JLT is one of my favorite vocalists.

Offline darkshade

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10891 on: June 26, 2021, 03:14:14 PM »
Correct. TA/NM is 'anything goes' which was what used to be the DT mantra more or less until around TOT. I think that is when MP shines, when there are no restrictions in regards to genre.

Online Revenge319

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10892 on: June 26, 2021, 04:38:44 PM »
This is just a small thing, and I don't know if this is even controversial, but I don't like the kaleidoscope designs they're doing for the artwork on the Lost Not Forgotten archive releases. It looks alright on the "A Dramatic Tour of Events" CD, but I don't think it looks good at all on the other ones...

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10893 on: June 27, 2021, 05:34:47 AM »
To me it's completely fine. It's an official bootleg. Nothing fancy. Not a big release. It needs a picture. That'll do.

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10894 on: June 27, 2021, 10:04:11 AM »
SoA sound  just like another one of MPs side projects that will likely last a maximum of 3 studio albums and 3 live DVDs then call it a day before he moves on.

He needs to stop writing and recording all his albums in like a a week and really focus on writing a GREAT album that will stand up

to DT's best work. Didn't SOA have two songs that sounded exactly the same on their last album ?

That's what happens when you force yourself to write an hour of music in 7 days.

That's also why I think MMXX is so much better than the debut. They took a lot of time to write that from jamming ideas at shows, to recording the core of the music, to weeks and maybe months of touchups and additions.

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10895 on: June 27, 2021, 02:36:07 PM »
To me it's completely fine. It's an official bootleg. Nothing fancy. Not a big release. It needs a picture. That'll do.
I think the way they were done for YJR releases was better - they were still clearly official bootlegs, but there was a single image closely related to whatever the release was that was easy to recognize/relate to. These kaleidoscope designs are way more obscure and hard to understand than the JM lyrics you love to bag on!   :biggrin:

I realize now that they are under a different branding, they wanted something different but still somewhat uniform across all the official bootleg releases, but I imagine that they could've come up with a better idea than what they've chosen to go with.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10896 on: June 27, 2021, 04:46:31 PM »
To me it's completely fine. It's an official bootleg. Nothing fancy. Not a big release. It needs a picture. That'll do.

Fair point, but I would like a little more for my favorite band than "that'll do," regardless of what the product/release actually is.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Stadler

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10897 on: June 27, 2021, 04:56:15 PM »
To me it's completely fine. It's an official bootleg. Nothing fancy. Not a big release. It needs a picture. That'll do.
I think the way they were done for YJR releases was better - they were still clearly official bootlegs, but there was a single image closely related to whatever the release was that was easy to recognize/relate to. These kaleidoscope designs are way more obscure and hard to understand than the JM lyrics you love to bag on!   :biggrin:

I realize now that they are under a different branding, they wanted something different but still somewhat uniform across all the official bootleg releases, but I imagine that they could've come up with a better idea than what they've chosen to go with.

I haven't really taken the time to look at the new stuff - I'm going to order the first two this week (but my OCD is bristling at not having a complete set without rebuying the stuff I already have! Hahaha!) - but the older stuff was cool.  I liked the inset, I liked the wax seal, I thought it was appropriate.  I've always liked the artwork around Dream Theater, to be honest (including the Fan Club releases) except for the first album.