Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 687421 times)

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Online HOF

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10780 on: June 16, 2021, 10:02:36 AM »
Breaking All Illusions is on A Dramatic Turn of Events, and S2N is on Distance Over Time.  Surprised you haven't listened to anything since 8VM.  The Mangini-era albums are outstanding.

I have listened to bits and pieces of each album since then, but it's just not my thing. I did give a full listen to both the self-titled and The Astonishing I think. I only really heard whatever the lead preview track was from Distance Over Time. Octavarium was the last one where the band were still in "buy without a listen" territory for me.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10781 on: June 16, 2021, 10:07:45 AM »
I did give a full listen to both the self-titled and The Astonishing I think.

For what it's worth, those are the two least liked of the Mangini era.  And whether or not you end up liking A Dramatic Turn of Events, Breaking All Illusions is probably THE fan favorite from the Mangini era.  Personally, I find the music to be outstanding, but personally don't care for the lyrics.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10782 on: June 16, 2021, 10:09:28 AM »
Breaking All Illusions is on A Dramatic Turn of Events, and S2N is on Distance Over Time.  Surprised you haven't listened to anything since 8VM.  The Mangini-era albums are outstanding.

These 2 are my favorite songs off of each album.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10783 on: June 16, 2021, 10:14:33 AM »
Well, he wasn't "banned."  If anything, it was  "self-banning" because his style of just writing freeform and expecting others to make them work in a song didn't work with how JP and MP wanted to do things at the time.  He could very well have submitted lyrics with vocal melodies if he chose to.

As far as "recent" ones, you haven't heard BAI or S2N?

 I haven't given more than a casual listen to a DT album since Octavarium. Which albums are those on?

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Offline lovethedrake

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10784 on: June 16, 2021, 11:37:47 AM »
Breaking All Illusions is on A Dramatic Turn of Events, and S2N is on Distance Over Time.  Surprised you haven't listened to anything since 8VM.  The Mangini-era albums are outstanding.

I have listened to bits and pieces of each album since then, but it's just not my thing. I did give a full listen to both the self-titled and The Astonishing I think. I only really heard whatever the lead preview track was from Distance Over Time. Octavarium was the last one where the band were still in "buy without a listen" territory for me.

I would definitely listen to At Wits End from the new album.  Thats the first song that has been in consideration for Top 10 DT songs for me since SDOIT. 

Offline darkshade

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10785 on: June 16, 2021, 06:17:55 PM »
What took a dive for me was the Awake album. When I delved into the discography, I discovered Awake after about 8 mos. I was loving how all their different albums just sounded, well different. Awake was cool, heavy, interesting. I played it a lot. But, there are 2 songs I skip,  Erotomania and Lifting Shadows. (A Rarity!) SDV is cool, but really not that fun to listen to often. The Mirror/Lie I enjoy more live..Scarred is just Ok. I really don't understand how Super popular it is. (Except of course, that everyone is different  :))
I did play Awake though when I hosted a pre-show show fan meet-up and, it was perfect for that.

When I was a DT noob, I thought Awake was hot garbage, and avoided listening to it again for a long time.

Now I consider it a top 3 DT album, and one of the most interesting metal albums ever created.

Offline darkshade

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10786 on: June 16, 2021, 06:23:47 PM »
The Mangini-era albums are outstanding.

**inserts controversial opinions**

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10787 on: June 16, 2021, 07:53:08 PM »
What took a dive for me was the Awake album. When I delved into the discography, I discovered Awake after about 8 mos. I was loving how all their different albums just sounded, well different. Awake was cool, heavy, interesting. I played it a lot. But, there are 2 songs I skip,  Erotomania and Lifting Shadows. (A Rarity!) SDV is cool, but really not that fun to listen to often. The Mirror/Lie I enjoy more live..Scarred is just Ok. I really don't understand how Super popular it is. (Except of course, that everyone is different  :))
I did play Awake though when I hosted a pre-show show fan meet-up and, it was perfect for that.

When I was a DT noob, I thought Awake was hot garbage, and avoided listening to it again for a long time.

Now I consider it a top 3 DT album, and one of the most interesting metal albums ever created.

I agree, it is very interesting. I say it fell because it was at the top for a while, now it's not. Typically I don't skip DT songs, but the two I mentioned I just really can't get into. I may only be into DT for 5 years, but I don't feel too noob-ish. Awake just lost the blinding luster it had at the beginning.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10788 on: June 16, 2021, 09:14:02 PM »
Through Her Eyes is one of the few songs I skip.

Offline nobloodyname

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10789 on: June 16, 2021, 11:57:05 PM »

When I was a DT noob, I thought Awake was hot garbage, and avoided listening to it again for a long time.


I wouldn't say it's hot garbage but it's certainly in my bottom three albums (in no particular order: The Astonishing, DT12, Awake).
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Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10790 on: June 17, 2021, 06:14:42 AM »
What took a dive for me was the Awake album. When I delved into the discography, I discovered Awake after about 8 mos. I was loving how all their different albums just sounded, well different. Awake was cool, heavy, interesting. I played it a lot. But, there are 2 songs I skip,  Erotomania and Lifting Shadows. (A Rarity!) SDV is cool, but really not that fun to listen to often. The Mirror/Lie I enjoy more live..Scarred is just Ok. I really don't understand how Super popular it is. (Except of course, that everyone is different  :))
I did play Awake though when I hosted a pre-show show fan meet-up and, it was perfect for that.

When I was a DT noob, I thought Awake was hot garbage, and avoided listening to it again for a long time.

Now I consider it a top 3 DT album, and one of the most interesting metal albums ever created.

I had the opposite reaction. When I first discovered awake I loved the album but as time passes it's ranking falls lower and lower. I think it's production has aged worse than I&W and maybe even WDADU and the songs just don't do it anymore.

Offline Dream Team

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10791 on: June 17, 2021, 06:27:47 AM »
For me it was instant dislike after falling in love with Images, then years of trying to warm up to it . . . but nah, I like Scarred and Lifting Shadows and don't bother much with the rest.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10792 on: June 18, 2021, 09:56:01 AM »
Awake was a fantastic follow up to I&W which is indicative of it's top 5 ranking among fans.  I loved it then and still do. :2metal:

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10793 on: June 19, 2021, 03:07:50 AM »
Awake was a bit weird to me, but the dark atmosphere and the impeccable production make it one of my favourites.

Offline Volante99

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10794 on: June 20, 2021, 10:18:49 PM »
Speaking as a guitarist, Awake is the best playing Petrucci has ever committed to tape. Creative, funky, progressive, heavy, and often times just flat out ferocious. If I&W established him as a prog hero, Awake cemented him as a guitar god- easily on the same level of the Vaiís, Satrianiís and Yngwieís of the world. Petrucci is always good, but Awake is next level; a showcase of his versatility and a treasure trove for prog metal guitarists.

The only dig on Awake, and this is probably controversial, is JLBís overly operatic, and frankly, over bearing delivery throughout. Obviously, a powerhouse performance, but I feel like instead of turning him up to 11 throughout most of the album, dialing him back a bit would have serviced the songs better. If youíll excuse a pro wrestling analogy, but itís like if youíre constantly doing ďhigh spotsĒ, it starts losing itís effect.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10795 on: June 21, 2021, 01:14:46 PM »
Speaking as a guitarist, Awake is the best playing Petrucci has ever committed to tape.

If this is true, it's probably because it was the last time (or close to it) anything DT did was recorded on tape (if Awake was even recorded on tape).
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Offline darkshade

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10796 on: June 21, 2021, 02:04:45 PM »
JP's style in the early-mid 90s was definitely a product of his time, growing as a musician through the 1980s and early 90s, combined with a love for prog and jazz-fusion. He drifted away from much of what Volante99 describes since FII.

FII is a transitional period for JP, and I like some of his stuff on that album or on ACOS, but other times I'm not into his tone, but he was still keeping things funky here and there. From SFAM onward, is when that 80s/90s JP became modern JP. I do really enjoy JP's post-FII work though, up until and including BC&SL. Since then, I've not been a huge fan of his tone on the studio albums again, or much of his new riffs, which to me often sound more elementary for his skill level and history of cool riffs.

However, he showed us he's still got some of that classic JP still in him on LTE3, in my opinion. His guitar sounded really good again, so I believe MP co-producing (and his style and creativity) is a big reason for why JP sounds better on albums with him on drums from my view, not to mention JP+MP were born to play with each other, their sound is huge, whereas I find Mangini behind JP so lack deepness in the sound.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10797 on: June 21, 2021, 02:16:09 PM »
JP's style in the early-mid 90s was definitely a product of his time, growing as a musician through the 1980s and early 90s, combined with a love for prog and jazz-fusion. He drifted away from much of what Volante99 describes since FII.

FII is a transitional period for JP, and I like some of his stuff on that album or on ACOS, but other times I'm not into his tone, but he was still keeping things funky here and there. From SFAM onward, is when that 80s/90s JP became modern JP. I do really enjoy JP's post-FII work though, up until and including BC&SL. Since then, I've not been a huge fan of his tone on the studio albums again, or much of his new riffs, which to me often sound more elementary for his skill level and history of cool riffs.

However, he showed us he's still got some of that classic JP still in him on LTE3, in my opinion. His guitar sounded really good again, so I believe MP co-producing (and his style and creativity) is a big reason for why JP sounds better on albums with him on drums from my view, not to mention JP+MP were born to play with each other, their sound is huge, whereas I find Mangini behind JP so lack deepness in the sound.

I donít know if this is due to the guitar itself or not, but I do recall thinking JPís tone shifted a bit when he left Ibanez for Earnie Ball (I believe SFAM was the first time he used a Music Man on an album).

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10798 on: June 21, 2021, 02:18:57 PM »
JP's style in the early-mid 90s was definitely a product of his time, growing as a musician through the 1980s and early 90s, combined with a love for prog and jazz-fusion. He drifted away from much of what Volante99 describes since FII.

FII is a transitional period for JP, and I like some of his stuff on that album or on ACOS, but other times I'm not into his tone, but he was still keeping things funky here and there. From SFAM onward, is when that 80s/90s JP became modern JP. I do really enjoy JP's post-FII work though, up until and including BC&SL. Since then, I've not been a huge fan of his tone on the studio albums again, or much of his new riffs, which to me often sound more elementary for his skill level and history of cool riffs.

However, he showed us he's still got some of that classic JP still in him on LTE3, in my opinion. His guitar sounded really good again, so I believe MP co-producing (and his style and creativity) is a big reason for why JP sounds better on albums with him on drums from my view, not to mention JP+MP were born to play with each other, their sound is huge, whereas I find Mangini behind JP so lack deepness in the sound.

I donít know if this is due to the guitar itself or not, but I do recall thinking JPís tone shifted a bit when he left Ibanez for Earnie Ball (I believe SFAM was the first time he used a Music Man on an album).

Almost. SFAM was still Ibanez, but he got the first few Music Man prototypes for the SFAM tour (we can see 3 of those on the Live Scenes/Metropolis 2000 album).
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline darkshade

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10799 on: June 21, 2021, 02:19:07 PM »
JP's style in the early-mid 90s was definitely a product of his time, growing as a musician through the 1980s and early 90s, combined with a love for prog and jazz-fusion. He drifted away from much of what Volante99 describes since FII.

FII is a transitional period for JP, and I like some of his stuff on that album or on ACOS, but other times I'm not into his tone, but he was still keeping things funky here and there. From SFAM onward, is when that 80s/90s JP became modern JP. I do really enjoy JP's post-FII work though, up until and including BC&SL. Since then, I've not been a huge fan of his tone on the studio albums again, or much of his new riffs, which to me often sound more elementary for his skill level and history of cool riffs.

However, he showed us he's still got some of that classic JP still in him on LTE3, in my opinion. His guitar sounded really good again, so I believe MP co-producing (and his style and creativity) is a big reason for why JP sounds better on albums with him on drums from my view, not to mention JP+MP were born to play with each other, their sound is huge, whereas I find Mangini behind JP so lack deepness in the sound.

I donít know if this is due to the guitar itself or not, but I do recall thinking JPís tone shifted a bit when he left Ibanez for Earnie Ball (I believe SFAM was the first time he used a Music Man on an album).

I've heard that argument, but Scenes and SDoIT are like the twilight of the old JP before metal overtook DT's general approach to song writing, he still had a little of that funky style here and there on those 2 albums. His tone was definitely different, though, when he switched guitar brands.

Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10800 on: June 21, 2021, 02:27:50 PM »
Speaking as a guitarist, Awake is the best playing Petrucci has ever committed to tape.

If this is true, it's probably because it was the last time (or close to it) anything DT did was recorded on tape (if Awake was even recorded on tape).
IIRC, either James or John mentioned that they were holding on to tape for fairly long and if memory serves, Met2 was recorded to tape and you can see tape machines running during the 6D documentaries. (I may be wrong)
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10801 on: June 21, 2021, 02:28:32 PM »
JP's style in the early-mid 90s was definitely a product of his time, growing as a musician through the 1980s and early 90s, combined with a love for prog and jazz-fusion. He drifted away from much of what Volante99 describes since FII.

FII is a transitional period for JP, and I like some of his stuff on that album or on ACOS, but other times I'm not into his tone, but he was still keeping things funky here and there. From SFAM onward, is when that 80s/90s JP became modern JP. I do really enjoy JP's post-FII work though, up until and including BC&SL. Since then, I've not been a huge fan of his tone on the studio albums again, or much of his new riffs, which to me often sound more elementary for his skill level and history of cool riffs.

However, he showed us he's still got some of that classic JP still in him on LTE3, in my opinion. His guitar sounded really good again, so I believe MP co-producing (and his style and creativity) is a big reason for why JP sounds better on albums with him on drums from my view, not to mention JP+MP were born to play with each other, their sound is huge, whereas I find Mangini behind JP so lack deepness in the sound.

I donít know if this is due to the guitar itself or not, but I do recall thinking JPís tone shifted a bit when he left Ibanez for Earnie Ball (I believe SFAM was the first time he used a Music Man on an album).

Almost. SFAM was still Ibanez, but he got the first few Music Man prototypes for the SFAM tour (we can see 3 of those on the Live Scenes/Metropolis 2000 album).

Thatís right. LSFNY is probably where I noticed the change in tone.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10802 on: June 21, 2021, 03:50:49 PM »
I did give a full listen to both the self-titled and The Astonishing I think.

For what it's worth, those are the two least liked of the Mangini era.  And whether or not you end up liking A Dramatic Turn of Events, Breaking All Illusions is probably THE fan favorite from the Mangini era.  Personally, I find the music to be outstanding, but personally don't care for the lyrics.

I find all Myung lyrics to be meaningless drivel.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10803 on: June 21, 2021, 05:36:26 PM »
I did give a full listen to both the self-titled and The Astonishing I think.

For what it's worth, those are the two least liked of the Mangini era.  And whether or not you end up liking A Dramatic Turn of Events, Breaking All Illusions is probably THE fan favorite from the Mangini era.  Personally, I find the music to be outstanding, but personally don't care for the lyrics.

I find all Myung lyrics to be meaningless drivel.

How are they meaningless?
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10804 on: June 21, 2021, 05:50:23 PM »
I did give a full listen to both the self-titled and The Astonishing I think.

For what it's worth, those are the two least liked of the Mangini era.  And whether or not you end up liking A Dramatic Turn of Events, Breaking All Illusions is probably THE fan favorite from the Mangini era.  Personally, I find the music to be outstanding, but personally don't care for the lyrics.

I find all Myung lyrics to be meaningless drivel.

Learning to Live is meaningless?

Fatal Tragedy is meaningless?
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10805 on: June 21, 2021, 06:03:13 PM »
I did give a full listen to both the self-titled and The Astonishing I think.

For what it's worth, those are the two least liked of the Mangini era.  And whether or not you end up liking A Dramatic Turn of Events, Breaking All Illusions is probably THE fan favorite from the Mangini era.  Personally, I find the music to be outstanding, but personally don't care for the lyrics.

I find all Myung lyrics to be meaningless drivel.

Controversial that is...agree I do not ;)

Honestly, I'm as big a 'different strokes' guy as you'll find, but this strikes me as borderline contrarian. Coming to a DT forum and posting that? You might need to show your work :rollin

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10806 on: June 21, 2021, 06:42:45 PM »
He can't show his work for such a terrible opinion, but that is pretty normal when you consider the source.

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10807 on: June 21, 2021, 09:46:36 PM »
Speaking as a guitarist, Awake is the best playing Petrucci has ever committed to tape.

If this is true, it's probably because it was the last time (or close to it) anything DT did was recorded on tape (if Awake was even recorded on tape).
IIRC, either James or John mentioned that they were holding on to tape for fairly long and if memory serves, Met2 was recorded to tape and you can see tape machines running during the 6D documentaries. (I may be wrong)
Been a while since I've seen those behind the scenes clips for the SDoIT tracks, but I think you're right. I know for a fact that tape was used for FII - there was a comment made about how Kevin Shirley had recorded JP's solo for HYears and thought it was just right, even though it was perhaps a bit flawed. However, by the following day, JP was convinced it wasn't good enough and insisted on re-recording it so that it was technically perfect, which required Kevin to wipe the previous take of the solo from the tape.
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10808 on: June 21, 2021, 09:58:51 PM »
He can't show his work for such a terrible opinion, but that is pretty normal when you consider the source.

that's a bit hostile, don't you think? :-\

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10809 on: June 21, 2021, 10:07:08 PM »
Speaking as a guitarist, Awake is the best playing Petrucci has ever committed to tape.

If this is true, it's probably because it was the last time (or close to it) anything DT did was recorded on tape (if Awake was even recorded on tape).
IIRC, either James or John mentioned that they were holding on to tape for fairly long and if memory serves, Met2 was recorded to tape and you can see tape machines running during the 6D documentaries. (I may be wrong)

I meant ďtapeĒ as an expression but maybe a poor choice of words :P

Also, I would bet real money the decision to hang onto tape for as long as possible was a Portnoy call.  :lol

Offline Enigmachine

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10810 on: June 22, 2021, 02:59:42 AM »
The thing is too, Myung lyrics by the standards of certain other prog bands aren't even that abstract. Even in the context of Dream Theater, Under a Glass Moon is probably more enigmatic in its meaning than Myung has done. I'm not sure which Myung song would come off as meaningless, given that there tends to be lines that almost give away the meaning by itself in each piece.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10811 on: June 22, 2021, 05:18:54 AM »
He can't show his work for such a terrible opinion, but that is pretty normal when you consider the source.

that's a bit hostile, don't you think? :-\

If I said it Iíd get banned again. But because somebody is saying it about me itís ok.

Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10812 on: June 22, 2021, 05:24:58 AM »
Speaking as a guitarist, Awake is the best playing Petrucci has ever committed to tape.

If this is true, it's probably because it was the last time (or close to it) anything DT did was recorded on tape (if Awake was even recorded on tape).
IIRC, either James or John mentioned that they were holding on to tape for fairly long and if memory serves, Met2 was recorded to tape and you can see tape machines running during the 6D documentaries. (I may be wrong)

I meant ďtapeĒ as an expression but maybe a poor choice of words :P

Also, I would bet real money the decision to hang onto tape for as long as possible was a Portnoy call.  :lol
that is indeed possible, but I distincly (well, somewhat) remember either James or John mentioning it during the Q/A held during the D/T sessions in 2018, so that's why I indicated them.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10813 on: June 22, 2021, 06:51:13 AM »
JP's style in the early-mid 90s was definitely a product of his time, growing as a musician through the 1980s and early 90s, combined with a love for prog and jazz-fusion. He drifted away from much of what Volante99 describes since FII.

FII is a transitional period for JP, and I like some of his stuff on that album or on ACOS, but other times I'm not into his tone, but he was still keeping things funky here and there. From SFAM onward, is when that 80s/90s JP became modern JP. I do really enjoy JP's post-FII work though, up until and including BC&SL. Since then, I've not been a huge fan of his tone on the studio albums again, or much of his new riffs, which to me often sound more elementary for his skill level and history of cool riffs.

However, he showed us he's still got some of that classic JP still in him on LTE3, in my opinion. His guitar sounded really good again, so I believe MP co-producing (and his style and creativity) is a big reason for why JP sounds better on albums with him on drums from my view, not to mention JP+MP were born to play with each other, their sound is huge, whereas I find Mangini behind JP so lack deepness in the sound.

This is not outlandish; despite being the producer and, at times, the engineer, Jimmy Page never quite approached his Zeppelin sound when not playing with John Bonham.   It was about space and it was about motion.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10814 on: June 22, 2021, 06:55:07 AM »
I did give a full listen to both the self-titled and The Astonishing I think.

For what it's worth, those are the two least liked of the Mangini era.  And whether or not you end up liking A Dramatic Turn of Events, Breaking All Illusions is probably THE fan favorite from the Mangini era.  Personally, I find the music to be outstanding, but personally don't care for the lyrics.

I find all Myung lyrics to be meaningless drivel.

Controversial that is...agree I do not ;)

Honestly, I'm as big a 'different strokes' guy as you'll find, but this strikes me as borderline contrarian. Coming to a DT forum and posting that? You might need to show your work :rollin

While I'm not willing to go as far as "meaningless drivel", I have, in this thread, said that I find the fawning over Myung's lyrics to be quizzical.   I'm not suggesting that JM's lyrics are bad, but they aren't at the level for me that they are for others.  As I've noted, there are frequently posts, pre-album release, along the lines of "Can't wait for this record!  Myung is writing lyrics!  It's going to be epic!".  Uh, ok.  That is, to me, like saying "The mail is coming today!  I can't wait! It's going to be epic!"     They may well be, but the simple fact that JM is writing them isn't really the determinant there.