Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 711497 times)

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Offline Podaar

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10360 on: October 30, 2020, 04:56:43 AM »
Actually, he is correct.
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Offline SeRoX

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10361 on: November 07, 2020, 07:17:37 AM »
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Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10362 on: November 07, 2020, 07:46:06 AM »
An opinion for the future but I feel the next live DVD will be least favourite among DT fan base.

CIM won't be replaced.

We donít talk about that release here. *Black Panther meme*
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10363 on: November 07, 2020, 02:42:25 PM »
An opinion for the future but I feel the next live DVD will be least favourite among DT fan base.

CIM won't be replaced.

We donít talk about that release here. *Black Panther meme*


Offline Evai

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10364 on: November 07, 2020, 03:07:27 PM »
Meh, it's quite enjoyable as a live CD, lots of interesting changes from the album versions to keep you engaged. James' vocals seemed bad at the time, but compared to the standard set nowadays, they're decent enough
Jordan took Moore's boring, pedestrian parts and elevated them considerably to take them from barely palatable to stellar.

Offline gzarruk

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10365 on: November 07, 2020, 04:18:12 PM »
An opinion for the future but I feel the next live DVD will be least favourite among DT fan base.

CIM won't be replaced.

We donít talk about that release here. *Black Panther meme*



:lol
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10366 on: November 07, 2020, 04:19:17 PM »
Meh, it's quite enjoyable as a live CD, lots of interesting changes from the album versions to keep you engaged. James' vocals seemed bad at the time, but compared to the standard set nowadays, they're decent enough

I had to search for a copy, but I found one, just for the cd. I enjoyed the many things they did with the songs, and also for the Systematic Chaos songs.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10367 on: November 07, 2020, 06:01:56 PM »
Meh, it's quite enjoyable as a live CD, lots of interesting changes from the album versions to keep you engaged. James' vocals seemed bad at the time, but compared to the standard set nowadays, they're decent enough

I had to search for a copy, but I found one, just for the cd. I enjoyed the many things they did with the songs, and also for the Systematic Chaos songs.

I have the DVD but haven't seen it in ages. Might play it later today.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10368 on: November 07, 2020, 07:41:14 PM »
An opinion for the future but I feel the next live DVD will be least favourite among DT fan base.

CIM won't be replaced.

We donít talk about that release here. *Black Panther meme*



Fyeah, this is the shit

The thing about CiM is that it's very bootleg-ish at best. After two incredibly successful and well produced concert films they really didn't need to pull out another one, and mostly when it was clearly not planned (I have no evidence on this, but basically the montage feels like Portnoy going like: ok boys, let's see what we've got and put it all into one big package). The video is mediocre at best, sound mixing is weird, JLB sounds weird and the overall concept was very ambitious but was not well executed.

The documentary was ace and extremely enjoyable, tho. I really miss that kind of thing in a DT live release.
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Offline Herrick

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10369 on: November 07, 2020, 08:30:15 PM »
An opinion for the future but I feel the next live DVD will be least favourite among DT fan base.

CIM won't be replaced.

We donít talk about that release here. *Black Panther meme*



Fyeah, this is the shit

The thing about CiM is that it's very bootleg-ish at best. After two incredibly successful and well produced concert films they really didn't need to pull out another one, and mostly when it was clearly not planned (I have no evidence on this, but basically the montage feels like Portnoy going like: ok boys, let's see what we've got and put it all into one big package). The video is mediocre at best, sound mixing is weird, JLB sounds weird and the overall concept was very ambitious but was not well executed.

The documentary was ace and extremely enjoyable, tho. I really miss that kind of thing in a DT live release.

If the documentary was as good as the Systematic Chaos one, then Herrick needs to check out Chaos In Motion ASAP.
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10370 on: November 07, 2020, 08:37:08 PM »
The thing about CiM is that it's very bootleg-ish at best. After two incredibly successful and well produced concert films they really didn't need to pull out another one, and mostly when it was clearly not planned (I have no evidence on this, but basically the montage feels like Portnoy going like: ok boys, let's see what we've got and put it all into one big package). The video is mediocre at best, sound mixing is weird, JLB sounds weird and the overall concept was very ambitious but was not well executed.

The documentary was ace and extremely enjoyable, tho. I really miss that kind of thing in a DT live release.

If the documentary was as good as the Systematic Chaos one, then Herrick needs to check out Chaos In Motion ASAP.

I'm fairly certain that that is the Systematic Chaos one :lol

Offline Herrick

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10371 on: November 07, 2020, 08:44:03 PM »
The thing about CiM is that it's very bootleg-ish at best. After two incredibly successful and well produced concert films they really didn't need to pull out another one, and mostly when it was clearly not planned (I have no evidence on this, but basically the montage feels like Portnoy going like: ok boys, let's see what we've got and put it all into one big package). The video is mediocre at best, sound mixing is weird, JLB sounds weird and the overall concept was very ambitious but was not well executed.

The documentary was ace and extremely enjoyable, tho. I really miss that kind of thing in a DT live release.

If the documentary was as good as the Systematic Chaos one, then Herrick needs to check out Chaos In Motion ASAP.

I'm fairly certain that that is the Systematic Chaos one :lol

Aww shit. Chaos in Motion...I get it now. I was thinking it was a documentary for Octavarium.

So is the concert stuff bad quality? Is it worth checking out? I've only ever seen the documentary.
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Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10372 on: November 07, 2020, 09:13:03 PM »
Itís really bootleg-ish. Feels more like one of DTís ďofficialĒ bootlegs than as a proper and well-produced concert film. It has its charm, but itís been years since I saw it and I havenít had the desire of checking it out ever since.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10373 on: November 07, 2020, 09:38:34 PM »
I remember it came out around the time Within Temptation released Black Symphony, which was a fantastic video. Then months later Maiden released Flight 666. And I thought "c'mon DT, these are quality releases, what the heck are you doing putting out a video like CiM?" 
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Herrick

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10374 on: November 07, 2020, 09:52:42 PM »
Itís really bootleg-ish. Feels more like one of DTís ďofficialĒ bootlegs than as a proper and well-produced concert film. It has its charm, but itís been years since I saw it and I havenít had the desire of checking it out ever since.

I remember it came out around the time Within Temptation released Black Symphony, which was a fantastic video. Then months later Maiden released Flight 666. And I thought "c'mon DT, these are quality releases, what the heck are you doing putting out a video like CiM?"

I see. I'll look on The Tube and see if it's worth checking out the whole concert.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10375 on: November 08, 2020, 12:36:17 AM »
Didn't the Record Label want a DVD. So MP had to dig through videos and audio. I remember him saying this due to the differences in the Audio for Blind Faith and Surrounded. The Video is from a different show as that had better video quality and the audio had better audio.

It does have the famous "We're gonna killed up here."
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10376 on: November 08, 2020, 03:25:01 AM »
Wow, they said "Hey we want a DVD, so go through all your material, no matter how mediocre it is, and we'll release that, because we ain't filing anything on a proper budget?"
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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10377 on: November 08, 2020, 06:16:29 AM »
You can do a lot in a lifetime if you don't burn out too fast, you can make the most of the distance, first you need endurance first you've got to last....... NP

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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10379 on: November 08, 2020, 01:41:17 PM »
Wow, they said "Hey we want a DVD, so go through all your material, no matter how mediocre it is, and we'll release that, because we ain't filing anything on a proper budget?"

Pretty much, It explains why the videos are bootleg quality. All the behind the scenes videos, were made by MP himself. Remember, MP is also a movie nerd, and doesn't surprise me how much he liked to film, and be on camera.
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10380 on: November 08, 2020, 02:10:36 PM »
The thing about CiM is that it's very bootleg-ish at best. After two incredibly successful and well produced concert films they really didn't need to pull out another one, and mostly when it was clearly not planned (I have no evidence on this, but basically the montage feels like Portnoy going like: ok boys, let's see what we've got and put it all into one big package).
You're not too far off on your guessing. You are correct in that they originally weren't going to put out a live video release since they had just done L@B and Score (never mind 5YiaL and LSFNY before it with only the SDoIT album cycle not having a live release). But by the end of the tour, MP changed his mind and decided to do a release anyway.

IIRC, a lot of this was due to songs that played on that tour that had not been documented or were significantly different from what had been released on an official live release up to that point - several of which probably would not have gotten cycled back into the master setlist for a number of tours. And of course there were all the SC tracks, too. He had pro-shot video footage of 6 different shows, so he figured he'd put out more of a compilation release similar to 5YiaL rather than not have any sort of official document of that tour at all.
 
 
I remember it came out around the time Within Temptation released Black Symphony, which was a fantastic video. Then months later Maiden released Flight 666. And I thought "c'mon DT, these are quality releases, what the heck are you doing putting out a video like CiM?"
Actually MP warned everyone upfront *not* to expect the same quality as what we saw with L@B and Score. So it wasn't as if this was some hidden secret and he was trying to pull the wool over the fans' eyes.
 
 
Didn't the Record Label want a DVD. So MP had to dig through videos and audio. I remember him saying this due to the differences in the Audio for Blind Faith and Surrounded. The Video is from a different show as that had better video quality and the audio had better audio.
No - I don't believe the label had anything to do with CiM at all. The differences between the audio for BF and Surrounded were for a completely different reason. MP explained in my interview with him in 2009:
Quote
Putting together that set, I had based the song picks on the video footage I had. I looked at what was best represented on video and I picked the Toronto show for Blind Faith and Surrounded. I had my list of all the videos that were being edited for the video and I sent Kevin Shirley the list of what to mix the audio from. And he mixed what we thought was the Toronto show for Blind Faith and Surrounded. We synced it back up to the video, only to find out that it was from a completely different show Ė somebody sent him the wrong tapes, and we couldnít find the Toronto audio. So the audio for Toronto was missing and here we were with this mixed audio of Blind Faith and Surrounded, and we had no idea what show it was even from. So even to this day, I have no idea of what show those specific performances are from.
Not too long ago, while listening to a bunch of recordings from that tour, I finally figured out that recordings of those songs on CD are actually from the Calgary show on 2008/05/09, so that mystery has been solved.  :P
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10381 on: November 08, 2020, 02:17:00 PM »
CiM is a great package.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10382 on: November 08, 2020, 02:24:32 PM »

 
Didn't the Record Label want a DVD. So MP had to dig through videos and audio. I remember him saying this due to the differences in the Audio for Blind Faith and Surrounded. The Video is from a different show as that had better video quality and the audio had better audio.
No - I don't believe the label had anything to do with CiM at all. The differences between the audio for BF and Surrounded were for a completely different reason. MP explained in my interview with him in 2009:
Quote
Putting together that set, I had based the song picks on the video footage I had. I looked at what was best represented on video and I picked the Toronto show for Blind Faith and Surrounded. I had my list of all the videos that were being edited for the video and I sent Kevin Shirley the list of what to mix the audio from. And he mixed what we thought was the Toronto show for Blind Faith and Surrounded. We synced it back up to the video, only to find out that it was from a completely different show Ė somebody sent him the wrong tapes, and we couldnít find the Toronto audio. So the audio for Toronto was missing and here we were with this mixed audio of Blind Faith and Surrounded, and we had no idea what show it was even from. So even to this day, I have no idea of what show those specific performances are from.
Not too long ago, while listening to a bunch of recordings from that tour, I finally figured out that recordings of those songs on CD are actually from the Calgary show on 2008/05/09, so that mystery has been solved.  :P

 :tup :tup

Thanks for that....I wasn't entirely sure either.

I was going to also ask why it wasn't listed on the Box, and it was answered.

Do you know why CiM was done the way it was done?

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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10383 on: November 08, 2020, 02:49:37 PM »
Do you know why CiM was done the way it was done?
What specifically?
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10384 on: November 08, 2020, 04:25:06 PM »

I remember it came out around the time Within Temptation released Black Symphony, which was a fantastic video. Then months later Maiden released Flight 666. And I thought "c'mon DT, these are quality releases, what the heck are you doing putting out a video like CiM?"
Actually MP warned everyone upfront *not* to expect the same quality as what we saw with L@B and Score. So it wasn't as if this was some hidden secret and he was trying to pull the wool over the fans' eyes.

I do recall that, and appreciated the honesty from the band. I was just disappointed a bit a guess, and maybe some of that was being spoiled coming on the heels of high quality releases like Budokan and Score.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10385 on: November 08, 2020, 09:15:34 PM »
Do you know why CiM was done the way it was done?
What specifically?

Using  the different videos for different songs?
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10386 on: November 09, 2020, 06:44:46 AM »
Do you know why CiM was done the way it was done?
What specifically?
Using  the different videos for different songs?

Quote
Putting together that set, I had based the song picks on the video footage I had. I looked at what was best represented on video and I picked the Toronto show for Blind Faith and Surrounded.
;)
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10387 on: November 12, 2020, 08:31:44 PM »
So all this CiM talk prompted me to give it a listen. After a couple songs, the audio is much better than I remembered. I probably dismissed it due to being turned off by the video quality.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10388 on: November 12, 2020, 08:36:21 PM »
It's a really good package. You get the SC tracks..TDEN, ITPOE, TMOLS, plus some other great songs like Scarred, Lines In The Sand (Yay Boston!) and Blind Faith.

Never understood the flak it got.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
that's next level, man.

Offline wolfking

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10389 on: November 12, 2020, 08:40:20 PM »
It's a really good package. You get the SC tracks..TDEN, ITPOE, TMOLS, plus some other great songs like Scarred, Lines In The Sand (Yay Boston!) and Blind Faith.

Never understood the flak it got.

Same.  I always quite enjoyed it myself.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10390 on: November 12, 2020, 08:46:04 PM »
It's a solid set of songs. Though I remember the medley got slammed pretty hard by a vocal anti-medley contingent as well.

As I said, I was disappointed in the video quality; with limited funds, I opted to not buy it in favor of what I considered superior releases. Looking back, I think I also didn't care for it not being from one show. I know Flight 666 wasn't either, but there was a uniformity all the footage, and coupled with the awesomeness of that release, I guess that made it a non-issue.

And I already had three great videos (Live Scenes, Budokan, and Score) for my DT viewing pleasure.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10391 on: November 12, 2020, 09:01:56 PM »
The thing about the video is that for the Boston songs, it was basically the in house video feed that showed on the screens on each side of the stage. I love that footage.


Count me in as part of the anti Medley faction. To me, that was just a head start to get out of the parking lot.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
that's next level, man.

Offline Herrick

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10392 on: November 12, 2020, 09:20:54 PM »
The thing about the video is that for the Boston songs, it was basically the in house video feed that showed on the screens on each side of the stage. I love that footage.


Count me in as part of the anti Medley faction. To me, that was just a head start to get out of the parking lot.

I don't like medleys either. I'd rather hear the songs in their entirety. BUTT I bet medleys are pretty fun to hear it when you're there at a concert.
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10393 on: November 12, 2020, 09:45:23 PM »
I'm the opposite - I do like medleys, especially when they're really well constructed. The Instrumedley is one of the best ones, IMO. DT has had some good ones. Schmedley Wilcox was good, altho it didn't flow quite as smoothly during some of the transitions. But one thing I thought that was cool regarding that medley was that MP took all the semi-epic closing songs and put them all together.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #10394 on: November 12, 2020, 09:57:53 PM »
I'm the opposite - I do like medleys, especially when they're really well constructed. The Instrumedley is one of the best ones, IMO. DT has had some good ones. Schmedley Wilcox was good, altho it didn't flow quite as smoothly during some of the transitions. But one thing I thought that was cool regarding that medley was that MP took all the semi-epic closing songs and put them all together.

The Instrumedley is awesome, except I didn't know LTE at the time, so was pretty confused as to what the hell they were playing for a couple minutes. I still would rather it have been LTE-free but it doesn't ruin it for me.

And yes they (Mike) did a good job constructing the Wilcox based on the song selections and what he was shooting for.
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