Author Topic: UPDATED w/Distance Over Time- Train of Thought: Dream Theater's Last Great Album  (Read 4302 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 2239
  • Gender: Male
Re: Train of Thought: Dream Theater's Last Great Album
« Reply #105 on: August 13, 2018, 12:21:16 PM »
I"m pretty sure I remember when they (100.3) started playing Perry Mason from Ozzy, and I think that came out in 1995.  so yeah they weren't Pirate Radio at that point, but they were still playing hard rock.

I don't have any recollection of dates or particular songs, but the Wikipedia article for KKLQ (FM) ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KKLQ_(FM) ), which is what is presently transmitting at 100.3 FM, contains a history of stations broadcasting at that frequency.  It says that, prior to 1989, it was an easy listening station called KIQQ.  In March 1989, it became KQLZ - "Pirate Radio" - and started as a "Rock 40" station, which played everything from Metallica to Milli Vanilli.  Over the next few years, it adopted more of an AOR format.  The name "Pirate Radio" was dropped the day after Christmas 1992, and the format was changed to "modern rock."  In April 1993, the format switched back to easy listening (KXEZ).
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline ytserush

  • Posts: 3630
  • Like clockwork...
Re: Train of Thought: Dream Theater's Last Great Album
« Reply #106 on: August 13, 2018, 04:51:31 PM »
Many times - anything in particular you were thinking of?

Generally speaking on his approach and specifically  Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence (Disc 2), In The Presence of Enemies and The Astonishing.

Offline Phoenix87x

  • From the ashes
  • Posts: 6190
  • The Phoenix shall rise
Re: Train of Thought: Dream Theater's Last Great Album
« Reply #107 on: February 28, 2019, 05:34:23 PM »
Just wanted to say that I worship this album  :hefdaddy  and always have since the day it came out.

Been listening to it all week.

Offline lovethedrake

  • Posts: 277
Re: Train of Thought: Dream Theater's Last Great Album
« Reply #108 on: February 28, 2019, 06:59:32 PM »
OptionalPlayer... what do you think of the new album.  I really enjoyed your blog and agree with most of it. 

I happen to like Illumination Theory but can understand the complaints.   I also really enjoyed a ton of The Astonishing and considered it their best album since TOT until D/T came out.


Im more of a prog guy so I go back to SDOIT as their last amazing album for my preferences but I can objectively say TOT is their last great album.  I completely agree with that sentiment.

I am quite enjoying D/T though.  I wouldn't declare it a GREAT album but I think its probably my favorite of theirs since TOT or SDOIT.   

Curious as to your thoughts?

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 2368
  • Gender: Male
Re: Train of Thought: Dream Theater's Last Great Album
« Reply #109 on: February 28, 2019, 07:32:33 PM »
Many people are saying "_____ is the best album since TOT" and I just don't understand all the praise for TOT. Is it good? Definitely, it's a DT album, but, to me at least, it was a huge drop in quality after releasing two of their best albums ever (SFAM and SDOIT) back to back. TOT feels just like a heavy for the sake of heavy album and it's too one-dimensional because of that. We got a ton of technical moments and shredding, but zero melodic JP solos, for example. While I think it's very solid, it lacks balance, something that other "heavy" DT albums like Awake, SC and now D/T have.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline lovethedrake

  • Posts: 277
Re: Train of Thought: Dream Theater's Last Great Album
« Reply #110 on: February 28, 2019, 07:59:31 PM »
As a DT fan... TOT is not my favorite but as a music critic I can marvel at the all out assault of instrumentation and creativity of the album.  I don't believe the drop off in creativity happened with DT until Octavarium... I just don't like modern Metal as much so TOT is a middle of the road album for my tastes.

I think its BY FAR the best of their more metal driven albums though.   I don't count Awake in this because it's a much different type of metal IMO.       

While I definitely agree that SFAM and SDOIT are better albums than TOT, I think TOT mostly achieves what it's going for and is a much better album in every way than SC. 

But thats why I love this board.... its actually truly amazing how everyone has such different opinions about a band we love. 

I said this the other day, I&W and SFAM are generally considered classics and SDOIT is usually up there also but there is such a wide variance of the rest of the albums for people.



Offline Dedalus

  • Posts: 202
  • Gender: Male
Re: Train of Thought: Dream Theater's Last Great Album
« Reply #111 on: February 28, 2019, 08:01:51 PM »
Many people are saying "_____ is the best album since TOT" and I just don't understand all the praise for TOT. Is it good? Definitely, it's a DT album, but, to me at least, it was a huge drop in quality after releasing two of their best albums ever (SFAM and SDOIT) back to back. TOT feels just like a heavy for the sake of heavy album and it's too one-dimensional because of that. We got a ton of technical moments and shredding, but zero melodic JP solos, for example. While I think it's very solid, it lacks balance, something that other "heavy" DT albums like Awake, SC and now D/T have.

I agree.

For TOT  to be "DT's Last Great Album it should be, first, a great album.

Offline 1neeto

  • Posts: 399
Re: Train of Thought: Dream Theater's Last Great Album
« Reply #112 on: February 28, 2019, 08:48:11 PM »
TOT was my gateway album so it holds a special place in my heart. It ranked at number one for many years, but then I got more and more into their past catalog and started digging their newer releases. Was it their last great album? Come on, Octavarium anyone? ADTOE should also be considered one of their greatest albums IMO.

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 29499
  • Gender: Male
Re: Train of Thought: Dream Theater's Last Great Album
« Reply #113 on: February 28, 2019, 09:32:59 PM »
Many people are saying "_____ is the best album since TOT" and I just don't understand all the praise for TOT. Is it good? Definitely, it's a DT album, but, to me at least, it was a huge drop in quality after releasing two of their best albums ever (SFAM and SDOIT) back to back. TOT feels just like a heavy for the sake of heavy album and it's too one-dimensional because of that. We got a ton of technical moments and shredding, but zero melodic JP solos, for example. While I think it's very solid, it lacks balance, something that other "heavy" DT albums like Awake, SC and now D/T have.

Train of Thought is not one of my favorites, but I don't think its lack of balance should matter, especially since it's "one-dimensional" on purpose.  A Dream Theater album, or any album for that matter, does not have to have balance to be great, generally speaking.

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 2368
  • Gender: Male
Re: Train of Thought: Dream Theater's Last Great Album
« Reply #114 on: February 28, 2019, 10:06:25 PM »
Many people are saying "_____ is the best album since TOT" and I just don't understand all the praise for TOT. Is it good? Definitely, it's a DT album, but, to me at least, it was a huge drop in quality after releasing two of their best albums ever (SFAM and SDOIT) back to back. TOT feels just like a heavy for the sake of heavy album and it's too one-dimensional because of that. We got a ton of technical moments and shredding, but zero melodic JP solos, for example. While I think it's very solid, it lacks balance, something that other "heavy" DT albums like Awake, SC and now D/T have.

Train of Thought is not one of my favorites, but I don't think its lack of balance should matter, especially since it's "one-dimensional" on purpose.  A Dream Theater album, or any album for that matter, does not have to have balance to be great, generally speaking.

Definitely, I’m just saying I don’t like the album as much as others from the DT catalog because of it. SOC and ITNOG are still two of my all time favorite DT songs, I just wish the album was a bit more balanced and less “we’re trying so hard to make a super tough guy metal record”.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline OptionalPlayer

  • Posts: 246
    • Uncanny Derek
Re: Train of Thought: Dream Theater's Last Great Album
« Reply #115 on: March 03, 2019, 05:19:22 AM »
 :D

Of course this would've sprung back up.

Hey, folks!

OptionalPlayer... what do you think of the new album.  I really enjoyed your blog and agree with most of it. 

I happen to like Illumination Theory but can understand the complaints.   I also really enjoyed a ton of The Astonishing and considered it their best album since TOT until D/T came out.


Im more of a prog guy so I go back to SDOIT as their last amazing album for my preferences but I can objectively say TOT is their last great album.  I completely agree with that sentiment.

I am quite enjoying D/T though.  I wouldn't declare it a GREAT album but I think its probably my favorite of theirs since TOT or SDOIT.   

Curious as to your thoughts?
Thanks for your thoughts and wanting to hear my opinion. Coincidentally, I was planning on updating this blog/this post to continue the discussion.

The album hasn't been out long enough for me to argue from what I'd believe to be my "objective" standpoint, so I'll be reserving judgment for a little bit longer until I can really absorb the album.

It'll probably be another week or so before I do (which means another few spins of the album), so just hold onto your butts.

Offline OptionalPlayer

  • Posts: 246
    • Uncanny Derek
Re: Train of Thought: Dream Theater's Last Great Album
« Reply #116 on: March 03, 2019, 05:30:30 AM »
Many people are saying "_____ is the best album since TOT" and I just don't understand all the praise for TOT. Is it good? Definitely, it's a DT album, but, to me at least, it was a huge drop in quality after releasing two of their best albums ever (SFAM and SDOIT) back to back. TOT feels just like a heavy for the sake of heavy album and it's too one-dimensional because of that. We got a ton of technical moments and shredding, but zero melodic JP solos, for example. While I think it's very solid, it lacks balance, something that other "heavy" DT albums like Awake, SC and now D/T have.
I find that interesting that you feel the quality dropped. I can understand, going from a concept album and a 40+ minute long song to a series of shorter, more concise songs can feel like a drop in quality, but I would argue it's actually a tightening of musicianship (save for Endless Sacrifice).

Regarding JP's solos, there's not as much drama or "emotional resonance" in the same way, say, The Spirit Carries On portrays, but that's because ToT is a different album by them. The solos, I'd argue, are melodic at times, but not AS melodic on previous albums. But that's because ToT is its own kind of monster and melodic solos wouldn't work on it. Of course SoC and ItNoG feature great solos with great melody, but they wouldn't hit the same kind of emotional response that I feel you're looking for.

As a DT fan... TOT is not my favorite but as a music critic I can marvel at the all out assault of instrumentation and creativity of the album.  I don't believe the drop off in creativity happened with DT until Octavarium... I just don't like modern Metal as much so TOT is a middle of the road album for my tastes.

I think its BY FAR the best of their more metal driven albums though.   I don't count Awake in this because it's a much different type of metal IMO.       

While I definitely agree that SFAM and SDOIT are better albums than TOT, I think TOT mostly achieves what it's going for and is a much better album in every way than SC. 

But thats why I love this board.... its actually truly amazing how everyone has such different opinions about a band we love. 

I said this the other day, I&W and SFAM are generally considered classics and SDOIT is usually up there also but there is such a wide variance of the rest of the albums for people.
You're opinions are very similar to mine. Awake and ToT are two different "metal" albums. ToT isn't my favourite, but for the band, it's pretty damn good and they really began to slip up with Octavarium. We'll see if we see eye-to-eye on D/T.

Offline Infinite Cactus

  • The Best Character on The Show
  • DT.net Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 978
  • Gender: Male
    • Two Sly Deuce
Re: Train of Thought: Dream Theater's Last Great Album
« Reply #117 on: March 03, 2019, 07:00:16 AM »
For me, this is the album that's aged to worst. It's part of my teen years so I have a bunch of nostalgia. I think every song is great, but TDS, Endless Sacrifice, Honor Thy Father, and SOC are bloated to the point that the album has become an incredibly difficult chore for me to sit through. I still really like As I Am and ITNOG.

Offline OptionalPlayer

  • Posts: 246
    • Uncanny Derek
Re: Train of Thought: Dream Theater's Last Great Album
« Reply #118 on: April 17, 2019, 04:42:19 PM »
OptionalPlayer... what do you think of the new album.  I really enjoyed your blog and agree with most of it. 

Curious as to your thoughts?

Ask and you shall receive! I gave it a couple of months and now have my review for Distance Over Time on the blog!

While I won't post a huge block quote of what I wrote (unless mods let me?), I'll just post a snippet:

Quote
I can safely say, without hesitation, that while Distance Over Time is not the best Dream Theater album, it is now the last greatest Dream Theater album – triumphing over Train of Thought.

Wild, ain’t it? Let’s discuss!

Want to read more?

https://uncannyderek.com/2018/08/02/train-of-thought-dream-theaters-last-great-album/

Offline Vmadera00

  • Posts: 360
  • Gender: Male
Enjoy reading that. I agree with everything except for Paralyzed. I think Paralyzed is a song that had to grow on me, and even though is DT attempting Radio friendly song, it’s a great short tune.

Offline lovethedrake

  • Posts: 277
Thanks for replying and enjoyed the read!

I agreed with most of your blog but I feel like you are selling the first four songs a tad short on this one.

Paralyzed is commercial no doubt, but yet I never get bored with it and the vocals and overall production is excellent.

The mid section of fall into the light is brilliant imo and barstool warrior is probably my second favorite in the album behind AWE.

I agree that untethered angel is boring and a throwaway.   

AWE though... to me, is the first song since six degrees that actually belongs in the “completely classic DT” catalogue.  I just love it from start to epic finish.

Octavarium, breaking all illusions, s2n, bw, pbd, a count of Tuscany, antr, this dying soul, itnog  these are all great “modern”dream theater songs but at wits end belongs up there with the all time classics imo.

Offline bosk1

  • Bow down to Boskaryus
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6424
  • Kabbalah
I dunno.  Still reads like someone with an ax to grind who just wants to convince the world how everything that isn't their favorite album or two somehow sucks just because it isn't their personal favorite.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline lovethedrake

  • Posts: 277
I dunno.  Still reads like someone with an ax to grind who just wants to convince the world how everything that isn't their favorite album or two somehow sucks just because it isn't their personal favorite.

I don't get that vibe from his blog bosk.... He says its a great album despite clearly not loving the first 4 tracks and also says VK is excellent.

I love everything DT does and will always listen to their albums but I agree with the sentiment that the last GREAT album is either TOT or SDOIT.  That doesn't mean the other albums don't all have fantastic songs.

I don't think DT suddenly got less talented after SDOIT... they just made a stylistic choice that IMO is not as well suited for them.  I mean their name is Dream Theater... nobody hears that and thinks "hardcore metal".   They started as a progressive rock band with a hint of hair metal and a slice of 80's metal with an over the top vocalist.  Thats a large distinction from TOT which essentially has none of that. 

If you are a huge metal head, I could see loving SC.   I am a prog guy.  I like dream theater because it sounded like a heavier version of Styx or Genesis.

Anyways,  I guess I'm just defending that guys blog who I actually think is well done. 


Now, with all that said  DOT....  they brought a TON of what made me love them back to the fold and I think the warmth of the production really helps in some of the more metal areas.

AWE is just sooooooo good  :metal

Offline OptionalPlayer

  • Posts: 246
    • Uncanny Derek
Thanks for replying and enjoyed the read!

I agreed with most of your blog but I feel like you are selling the first four songs a tad short on this one.
No problem! And y'know, maybe the songs will grow on me over time. But my reaction over the past few months - and even seeing a few live - is underwhelming. I just find myself checking out when those songs are on and really focusing on the album when they're over.

I dunno.  Still reads like someone with an ax to grind who just wants to convince the world how everything that isn't their favorite album or two somehow sucks just because it isn't their personal favorite.
I'm sorry you feel that way, Bosk. I certainly don't have an axe to grind with the band. I obviously love them to death. I just felt like voicing my singular opinion on the matter - and who else better to share it with than a bunch of DT fans? If you disagree, that's a-okay too. I certainly hope it doesn't read like I'm trying to convince anyone to hate on their albums. My opinions are no more valid than anyone else's. I just wanted to share some thoughts!

I don't get that vibe from his blog bosk.... He says its a great album despite clearly not loving the first 4 tracks and also says VK is excellent.

I love everything DT does and will always listen to their albums but I agree with the sentiment that the last GREAT album is either TOT or SDOIT.  That doesn't mean the other albums don't all have fantastic songs.

I don't think DT suddenly got less talented after SDOIT... they just made a stylistic choice that IMO is not as well suited for them.  I mean their name is Dream Theater... nobody hears that and thinks "hardcore metal".   They started as a progressive rock band with a hint of hair metal and a slice of 80's metal with an over the top vocalist.  Thats a large distinction from TOT which essentially has none of that. 

If you are a huge metal head, I could see loving SC.   I am a prog guy.  I like dream theater because it sounded like a heavier version of Styx or Genesis.

Anyways,  I guess I'm just defending that guys blog who I actually think is well done. 
Thanks, meng!

That's a good point to make: the band made a stylistic choice with ToT. But post ToT, some songs were metal, some were not. And that's fine, because the band never really were "heavy" in the true sense to begin with (I cringe even typing that because I know what is "heavy" is completely subjective, but I know what I mean when I say it).

I feel, however, that the band never really had an "identity" so-to-speak. I knew a heavy song like The Dark Eternal Night or The Ministry of Lost Souls was truly a DT song because it would meander and ramble on and on. Symphony X or Pain of Salvation songs wouldn't necessarily do that - and if they did, it still felt like part of the song (see my praise of Pale Blue Dot). The technical prowess in the band always seemed to come first rather than the music, so-to-speak. Obviously there are moments in many of the albums where you could negate that statement, but as a whole, that's how I feel.

Anyway, I'm beginning to ramble on and not make sense like Illumination Theory, so I'll shut up now.  :lol

Offline Grizz

  • Posts: 1615
Eh fuck it, let me throw in my two-tenths of a cent.

SFaM: Classic ofc. I don't think the story is well-executed, as it's kinda convoluted and extremely difficult to piece together without someone else explaining it to you imo. But, the album is so great, that who cares?

6D: I always considered this a "good" album. Sure it's a solid album with lots of classic moments, but I have trouble getting into the first disc beyond TGP. I just can't love this album as much as others can for some reason.

ToT: Also a "good" album, but it's too metallic. I love the energy and it's very solid, but it's only like a third of ideal DT.

8VM: Some of my favorite musical moments are on this album, but it's woefully inconsistent.

SC: Meh.

BCSL: Some of my favorite musical moments are on this album, but it's woefully inconsistent.

ADTOE: I dig it. It's solid. I like the progginess and the melodies, much like I&W, and I think those are pretty well balanced.

DT: I dig it. I feel like it lacks some polish though. CONTROVERSY TIME: Illumination Theory, while beautiful, is a franken-song beyond the level of Scarred.

The Astonishing: burn it and bury it in the backyard. I could write a thesis on how much this album frustrates me.

D/T: I dig it. It seems kinda simple, kinda like DT, but I feel this one addresses a lot of the shortcomings of late DT. I can hear Myung, Mangini sounds in his element, and there is a nice balance between metal, prog, and melody.
"I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!"