Author Topic: DT12 v. WDAWAIISOIT8V&CSTOE pt. XII  (Read 54352 times)

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Offline wasteland

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DT12 v. WDAWAIISOIT8V&CSTOE pt. XII
« on: December 08, 2012, 01:54:54 AM »

DT12 v. WDAWAIISOIT8V&STOE pt. XII
Dream Theater - When Dream And Words Awaken Into Infinite Scenes Of Inner Thoughtavarium & Chaotic Silver Turn Of Events pt. XII


It's about time we unleash the full speculative might of the Dream Theater side, isn't it?  :biggrin:

So, what little we know so far is basically a few answers to standard questions about the future JP gave in a recent interview to metalinsider.net. Here's all the information available concerning the new album:
---

WHAT DO WE KNOW?

Quote from: John Petrucci to metalinsider.net, 08.12.2012
Q: How developed is the new album?

So far its not very developed at all. Were scheduled to go into the studio in January. Being a month out or so, we have a handful of ideas we compiled while we were on the road, and we have those archived. And since I got back from the road, and have had some off time, Ive been spending more time compiling, writing and demoing some things. There are a bunch of seeds, a bunch of ideas, and a definite direction. Everybody is hired, the studio is locked, and the vision for the type of album has been talked about and secured. The only thing thats not there is the main material, but well go in January full force.


Q: You mentioned you have the direction figured out. Is that anything youre prepared to discuss?

A: Not yet, its too early. Before we go into an album, I like to sit down and think about what were going to do instead of just going in and winging it. Ill usually come up with some sort of proposal, and well talk about it a bunch of times over the course of the month, and get everyone on the same page. This way, people can start to think about musical ideas in that direction, and get in the right headspace. For me, it makes everything so much clearer when youre in the studio. If you have a direction and a goal, you get better results.


Q: Will Mike Mangini be more involved in this record?

Yes. For the last album, he wasnt involved in the writing. We wrote it without him for 2 months, and he came in and tracked. This time, hes going to be in from day one, so well write together as a full group. The tapes that we have from doing that a bit on the road have been incredible. At soundcheck, if Id come in with an idea and wed start jamming on it, he was really quick and had great creative concepts. I think its going to be a very cool experience.


Q: Any time frame as to when the album will come out?

Im not sure. Were on the same schedule as A Dramatic Turn of Events, meaning that we entered the studio at the same time to work on that album, and it didnt come out until September. Its too early to tell if it will follow the same release schedule. By the time were done, writing, recording, mixing, mastering, it could be May-ish, and then we hit the Summer festival season in Europe around July or so, itll probably be a similar schedule.


Do we actually have any idea what Mangini writing might mean? First off, what roles can he play?

I asked Mike about this about a year ago at a drum clinic and I broke it down in detail in some post on this forum.  I dont have time to find it now but he essentially said he will still finding his groove with the band so he was mostly taking a back seat but as they were jamming at soundcheck and trying out new stuff, they might ask him to play a certain beat or he might say, "well what about this?" but for the most part he would just sit back and let them do their thing and only interject occasionally. 

In typically Mangini style, he was overexcited while talking about it, saying that John Myung was FLOURISHING (something my gf immitates quite often) and if James was backstage and heard something he liked, he would come out to check it out.

All in all, it really sounds like they are functioning as a band with Jordan and JP taking the reins as usual, but JM and JLB adding input and MM slowly becoming a bigger part of the process.

« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 07:53:30 AM by wasteland »
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Offline SomeoneLikeHim

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2012, 02:47:59 AM »
First!

This is going to be awesome
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Offline Dreamer81

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2012, 03:34:26 AM »
we need a making of!!

Offline cyberdrummer

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2012, 03:58:03 AM »
Concept album, calling it now.

Offline wasteland

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2012, 04:13:43 AM »
Concept album, calling it now.

Is it just a feeling of yours or did you read something between the lines of what JP said?
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Offline ThroughHerEyesDude6

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2012, 04:22:16 AM »
Concept album's a good idea. We're overdue for a concept album with a storyboard.

Offline cyberdrummer

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2012, 04:23:19 AM »
My reading of the interview is no doubt affected by my hope for another concept album, but 'definite direction' and 'the vision for the type of album' just suggests it to me. And I'm sure JLB has said relatively recently that he'd be open to the idea.

It's about time, in my opinion. And if they're following the WWRD rule, then it has to be done!

Offline Octavaripolis

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2012, 04:25:56 AM »
WOHOOOO!
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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2012, 04:37:11 AM »
Ok... I'm officially excited now! Come on DT12!
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline wasteland

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2012, 04:38:01 AM »
My reading of the interview is no doubt affected by my hope for another concept album, but 'definite direction' and 'the vision for the type of album' just suggests it to me. And I'm sure JLB has said relatively recently that he'd be open to the idea.

It's about time, in my opinion. And if they're following the WWRD rule, then it has to be done!

What's the WWRD rule, again?  :lol

Anyway, I'm not entirely convinced that a concept album would be a good idea. I love CAs, sure, but it's a big question mark coming from DT. Story based, as in SFAM or The Wall? I definitely don't see them doing something of a pshycological concept like the Reality Dream Trilogy by Riverside, so an eventual concept would be likely to fall on the first category, which might look like trying to pull another SFAM just for the sake of it or for playing safe.
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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2012, 04:42:19 AM »
Please, no concept album. As much as I love SFAM (2nd favourite), they've already gotten that out of their system, and I don't want another one just because they can. Too proggy.

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2012, 04:42:31 AM »
'What Would Rush Do' (mentioned in the same interview).

I'm biased because SFAM is my favourite DT album, but I'd love to hear another record with recurring themes and other conceptual elements. And nothing's too proggy for me!  :lol

Offline namgalsipsclar

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2012, 06:03:58 AM »
I don't mind what kind of album it is, I just want more Dream Theater.

Offline philmcson

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2012, 06:31:47 AM »
I'd really adore if the new album had a bit more heavy metal. not like TOT but hm, a bit of the ANTR edge in one or two songs would be nice. Not saying that ADTOE wasn't good, I still listen to it, I'd just like the new release to be a bit more heavy. Like, heavy metal Metropolis pt.3  ;D :o

Offline Sketchy

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2012, 06:40:17 AM »
Come on free jazz odessey!
This is as exciting as superluminal neutrinos. The sexy thing is that this actually exists :D

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2012, 06:45:56 AM »
I'm biased because SFAM is my favourite DT album, but I'd love to hear another record with recurring themes and other conceptual elements. And nothing's too proggy for me!  :lol
All of this :lol
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Offline The Presence of Frenemies

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2012, 07:03:09 AM »
Hoping for more dynamic arrangements, wider vocal range, and drums mixed higher. And the return of one mega-epic. And I hope the positive trend of Jordan's contributions continues--I feel like he's done his best work on the last two albums. But ultimately, whatever inspires the guys to make the best music they can is good with me.
Yeah, I have no idea what the cakeless person in that analogy is meant to be eating. If he's got some sort of cake substitute, it should really have been worked into the narrative at some point. As it stands, the options are:

  • Hoard a cake just to stare blankly into its doughy edifice.
  • Make futile chewing motions with your mouth while starving to death.

Offline wasteland

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2012, 07:07:21 AM »
Hoping for more dynamic arrangements, wider vocal range, and drums mixed higher. And the return of one mega-epic. And I hope the positive trend of Jordan's contributions continues--I feel like he's done his best work on the last two albums. But ultimately, whatever inspires the guys to make the best music they can is good with me.

All of this except for the mega epic. Albums tend to work much better as a whole composition when there are no huge song in the lot sucking all the energies and the attention from the others. Keep it short-to-middle sized, in the 10-15 range.  :tup
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Offline Sycsa

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2012, 07:34:12 AM »
I'd really adore if the new album had a bit more heavy metal. not like TOT but hm, a bit of the ANTR edge in one or two songs would be nice. Not saying that ADTOE wasn't good, I still listen to it, I'd just like the new release to be a bit more heavy. Like, heavy metal Metropolis pt.3  ;D :o

One of the perks of Portnoy's departure was that they left behind a certain type of heaviness, which allowed them to move into a different, more interesting direction. I really doubt they would be returning to the sound of the last few Portnoy albums and although ITPoE and Nightmare are among my favorites, I don't want them to. My wishes: make it even more proggy("nothing's too proggy for me!"), explore the technicality of Mr. Mangini to the fullest, continue giving Jordan more space, improve the vocals(less dragging choruses) and (long shot, but) no acoustic, cheesy ballads.


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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2012, 07:44:14 AM »
I'd really adore if the new album had a bit more heavy metal. not like TOT but hm, a bit of the ANTR edge in one or two songs would be nice. Not saying that ADTOE wasn't good, I still listen to it, I'd just like the new release to be a bit more heavy. Like, heavy metal Metropolis pt.3  ;D :o

One of the perks of Portnoy's departure was that they left behind a certain type of heaviness, which allowed them to move into a different, more interesting direction. I really doubt they would be returning to the sound of the last few Portnoy albums and although ITPoE and Nightmare are among my favorites, I don't want them to. My wishes: make it even more proggy("nothing's too proggy for me!"), explore the technicality of Mr. Mangini to the fullest, continue giving Jordan more space, improve the vocals(less dragging choruses) and (long shot, but) no acoustic, cheesy ballads.

I don't consider that a perk. For me the heavy stuff on ADTOE feels more sterile and less interesting than the heavy stuff on the last few albums.
I don't really mind what balance they strike, as long as it's interesting. ADTOE didn't do that for me, despite being a much more balanced and diverse album than its predecessors.

JUST MY OPINION GUYS. DON'T JUDGE ME.
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Offline philmcson

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2012, 07:49:39 AM »
I'd really adore if the new album had a bit more heavy metal. not like TOT but hm, a bit of the ANTR edge in one or two songs would be nice. Not saying that ADTOE wasn't good, I still listen to it, I'd just like the new release to be a bit more heavy. Like, heavy metal Metropolis pt.3  ;D :o

One of the perks of Portnoy's departure was that they left behind a certain type of heaviness, which allowed them to move into a different, more interesting direction. I really doubt they would be returning to the sound of the last few Portnoy albums and although ITPoE and Nightmare are among my favorites, I don't want them to. My wishes: make it even more proggy("nothing's too proggy for me!"), explore the technicality of Mr. Mangini to the fullest, continue giving Jordan more space, improve the vocals(less dragging choruses) and (long shot, but) no acoustic, cheesy ballads.

I don't consider that a perk. For me the heavy stuff on ADTOE feels more sterile and less interesting than the heavy stuff on the last few albums.
I don't really mind what balance they strike, as long as it's interesting. ADTOE didn't do that for me, despite being a much more balanced and diverse album than its predecessors.

JUST MY OPINION GUYS. DON'T JUDGE ME.

This.

IMO ADTOE is a great album and yes, there seemed to be a fresh approach. BUT at the same time I really hope that MP's departure hasn't killed the possibility of creating some HEAVY prog  :metal

Although I know how awesome it was to headbang to BITS in the first row - a heavy masterpiece in its own way  :tup

Offline The Presence of Frenemies

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2012, 07:53:00 AM »
Hoping for more dynamic arrangements, wider vocal range, and drums mixed higher. And the return of one mega-epic. And I hope the positive trend of Jordan's contributions continues--I feel like he's done his best work on the last two albums. But ultimately, whatever inspires the guys to make the best music they can is good with me.

All of this except for the mega epic. Albums tend to work much better as a whole composition when there are no huge song in the lot sucking all the energies and the attention from the others. Keep it short-to-middle sized, in the 10-15 range.  :tup

I can compromise on 15 ;). And I think if the arrangements improve, the need for a mega-epic gets lessened. The funny thing about DT is that on the super long songs, there tend to be fewer of the huge, dragging instrumentals (except The Reckoning), whereas their 10-15'ers tend to just be a normal-length song with an extended middle (ES, TMOLS, and ITNOG being three prominent examples, as well as just about everything on ADTOE).

no acoustic, cheesy ballads.

THIS. Sorry FFH and BTS fans--I think those songs are well done, but I don't consider them as exciting and interesting as most of DT's other work.

I don't consider that a perk. For me the heavy stuff on ADTOE feels more sterile and less interesting than the heavy stuff on the last few albums.
I don't really mind what balance they strike, as long as it's interesting. ADTOE didn't do that for me, despite being a much more balanced and diverse album than its predecessors.

JUST MY OPINION GUYS. DON'T JUDGE ME.

Agreed on this, though I know we're in the minority here. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Yeah, I have no idea what the cakeless person in that analogy is meant to be eating. If he's got some sort of cake substitute, it should really have been worked into the narrative at some point. As it stands, the options are:

  • Hoard a cake just to stare blankly into its doughy edifice.
  • Make futile chewing motions with your mouth while starving to death.

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2012, 07:57:14 AM »
Although I know how awesome it was to headbang to BITS in the first row - a heavy masterpiece in its own way  :tup

Well of course that one just plain rocks. :metal Didn't have the opportunity to see it live though, so I'll just have to wait for the live DVD.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Mladen

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2012, 07:57:36 AM »
we need a making of!!
This, please.

As for the album itself... It will be good.  ;D

Offline nikatapi

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2012, 07:58:47 AM »
I'm hoping for more piano work from Jordan, more clear (non distorted) playing from JP, louder and better mixed drums, and in general better production.


Offline RuRoRul

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2012, 08:00:10 AM »
My reading of the interview is no doubt affected by my hope for another concept album, but 'definite direction' and 'the vision for the type of album' just suggests it to me. And I'm sure JLB has said relatively recently that he'd be open to the idea.
Didn't he say exactly the same type of stuff about ADTOE though? And he said he usually does this, yet only one of their albums has been a full blown concept album.

Offline The Presence of Frenemies

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2012, 08:03:17 AM »
My reading of the interview is no doubt affected by my hope for another concept album, but 'definite direction' and 'the vision for the type of album' just suggests it to me. And I'm sure JLB has said relatively recently that he'd be open to the idea.
Didn't he say exactly the same type of stuff about ADTOE though? And he said he usually does this, yet only one of their albums has been a full blown concept album.

True. And I remember MP on Chaos In Progress talking about how SC was rare in it being kind of open. "SFAM was a concept album, TOT was balls to the wall, 8V had this big grand concept." So at least for some of them, they've had a clear vision/planning without being conceptual.

An intriguing quote nonetheless--the sort that could stimulate quite the circular discussion if we all have too much time on our hands.
Yeah, I have no idea what the cakeless person in that analogy is meant to be eating. If he's got some sort of cake substitute, it should really have been worked into the narrative at some point. As it stands, the options are:

  • Hoard a cake just to stare blankly into its doughy edifice.
  • Make futile chewing motions with your mouth while starving to death.

Offline SuperTaco

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2012, 08:51:40 AM »
The Dream Theater train has been refueled and is ready for another journey. All passengers please take your seats and enjoy the ride. We will be serving Nuggetz for dinner.

Offline Octavaripolis

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2012, 08:52:25 AM »
I hope for a big, majestic ballad. Think Space-Dye Vest, Another Day, I Walk Beside You, Misunderstood (all of these might not count as ballads, but I think you guys get my point)
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Offline mike099

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2012, 08:59:02 AM »
I love the heavy from the band, without the dark lord lyrics.  I love the music on SC and TOT, but the lyrics are too dark for me.  ADTOE was my first DT cd since I heard them by accident a few months ago.  There are lots of heavy moments in ADTOE and just love the vocals and the lyrics are great. 

I do not mind long songs, but not if the guitar player has time to take a couple of smoke breaks waiting for his solos.
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Offline The Presence of Frenemies

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2012, 09:01:11 AM »
I hope for a big, majestic ballad. Think Space-Dye Vest, Another Day, I Walk Beside You, Misunderstood (all of these might not count as ballads, but I think you guys get my point)

Something in the style of Another Day (or the LSFNY version of The Silent Man, or even Wither, sorta) would be cool. Totally would dig a slow-building ballad like that. But it has to build, not just simmer like BTS, to really grab me.
Yeah, I have no idea what the cakeless person in that analogy is meant to be eating. If he's got some sort of cake substitute, it should really have been worked into the narrative at some point. As it stands, the options are:

  • Hoard a cake just to stare blankly into its doughy edifice.
  • Make futile chewing motions with your mouth while starving to death.

Offline krands85

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2012, 09:01:29 AM »
And the return of one mega-epic.
I feel like I should want this too, but when I think about it, the longest song on my 3 favourite DT albums (Images, ToT, ADTOE) is ITNOG and that's not even 15 minutes long.

So I guess it's not that important an issue for me to really love the album. They definitely don't need to go and write a 20min+ song just for the sake of it, but if it happens quite naturally that will be cool.

There are a few elements that I would like to see, but at the end of the day - all that matters to me is how everything comes together as a whole.
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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2012, 09:11:00 AM »
To be honest, I'm not interested in another concept album. It'd be ok if the album had some recurring lyrical themes in different songs, but I think the idea of one huge story running throughout the album is overdone. And if they did a story-based concept album, it would be compared to Scenes all the time and probably overshadowed by it, with comments like "the new album is good, but not as good as Scenes".

When it comes to song lengths, I hope the new album will be closer to the 90s albums and ADTOE than the last few albums with MP. I prefer albums with more concise songs and maybe one or two 10-13 minute epics. I love ACOS, but I think DT's attempts at huge epics on the later releases haven't been nearly as successful - most of these overlong songs have parts that could've been cut away.

I think we won't be hearing any mega-heavy stuff; Jordan has said he's not a huge fan of that kind of music and in many interviews James and JP were saying they were really happy with the balanced style of ADTOE.

All this probably makes people think I'm not a prog or metal fan! :lol I just want a balanced album with a good mixture of heaviness, complexity, atmosphere and simplicity.

Offline wasteland

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2012, 09:48:53 AM »
Your posts is the ultimate expression of my mind on this matter. Bravo, Sir. Let me quote it again.

To be honest, I'm not interested in another concept album. It'd be ok if the album had some recurring lyrical themes in different songs, but I think the idea of one huge story running throughout the album is overdone. And if they did a story-based concept album, it would be compared to Scenes all the time and probably overshadowed by it, with comments like "the new album is good, but not as good as Scenes".

When it comes to song lengths, I hope the new album will be closer to the 90s albums and ADTOE than the last few albums with MP. I prefer albums with more concise songs and maybe one or two 10-13 minute epics. I love ACOS, but I think DT's attempts at huge epics on the later releases haven't been nearly as successful - most of these overlong songs have parts that could've been cut away.

I think we won't be hearing any mega-heavy stuff; Jordan has said he's not a huge fan of that kind of music and in many interviews James and JP were saying they were really happy with the balanced style of ADTOE.

All this probably makes people think I'm not a prog or metal fan! :lol I just want a balanced album with a good mixture of heaviness, complexity, atmosphere and simplicity.
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Offline novenpeter

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Re: Twelfth DT Album - Discussion Thread
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2012, 09:55:45 AM »
One ballad is my maximum. Three ballads in ADTOE is too much for me.

I would love a 15mins epic and some heavy song like BITS. (Not heavy as ToT)