General musings about pirating

[r0cken]

Hope I'm not breaking any rules here. Just wondered about some aspects of buying vs. pirating. Now, I'm not from the US and I've heard that over there it's really getting more difficult to download pirated material (correct me if I'm wrong). Different countries have different laws and different views on the subject. There's also the issue of iTunes not being available everywhere in the world, while shipping costs of physical media is sometimes outrageous. So it's different for everybody.

So general questions (and lets try to leave DT out of the statistic, cause fans tend to go crazy over buying everything from their favorite band):

How many album purchases do you afford yourself a month/year?
What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?
Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?
Do you prefer digital or physical media?
Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?
What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?

[Adami]

How many album purchases do you afford yourself a month/year?

I don't sort it out, I buy an album if I really want it, but I'm rather selective about what I buy.

What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?

If I want to listen to a specific song, I can do it on youtube. But if I can't afford a CD then I don't buy it, just like anything else.

Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?

Usually if it's on Itunes, then I can sample it before I buy it. Or else more generally the band releases a single on youtube and I check that out instead.

Do you prefer digital or physical media?

Physical disks, but I keep them also on my Ipod. There's only a few albums I downloaded on Itunes without buying the CD and that was because the physical CD was stupidly expensive.

Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?

Why should it? I don't consider how rich other companies are when buying stuff, I still don't steal it. However if it's a lesser known artist that I really like, I might make more of an effort to buy directly from them and not places like Amazon.

What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?

If it's by a band I like, then yes.


I treat CD's like any other thing. If I can afford them, I buy them. If not, I don't. If I don't really need it or want it that much, I don't buy it. I don't see why albums are treated like some special thing that people have a right to have. They're just like any other possible thing I can buy, aside from essentials like food and water cause you might actually need to steal those in order to survive if you can't afford them.

[r0cken]

Alright, I'll answer myself to start.

I purchase about 3-5 albums a year. Not a lot.
I pirate the rest.
Usually must hear it before I buy, unless it's a band I really love.
Prefer digital, no place to hold all the plastic. Never listen to the physical CDs, even if I buy them.
I admit, I prefer to support the struggling artist.
I don't buy albums that are only "okay", even if I keep the pirated copy.

[lonestar]

How many album purchases do you afford yourself a month/year?
No specific number, but I usually won't go over 2 a paycheck as a rule of thumb.

What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?
I use spotify.

Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?
Spotify again, or Youtube or some other medium to sample the stuff, especially new bands.

Do you prefer digital or physical media?
Both, physical and Amazon mp3s.

Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?
Nope, I actually have yet to pirate a single album.

What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?
No, but I do whim purchases at my local record store, which is HUGE. Sometimes I get lucky, sometimes I waste a few bucks(it's a new/used store, lots of stuff under 5$)

[Zantera]

How many album purchases do you afford yourself a month/year?
This is really hard to answer. I buy somewhere around 10 CDs and 5-6 Vinyl per month or so. Some months more, some less. I bought my turntable earlier this year (in February I believe) and have around 40 Vinyl now. So I've bought quite a bit.

What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?
I pretty much download everything I am interested in. If I really like what I'm hearing, then I will buy the music. As simple as that really. I think one of the advantages of downloading is that I can hear something first, and then buy it. I couldn't possibly afford buying lots of albums without knowing anything about them first, because it would be quite a risk.

Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?
Yeah pretty much. I tend to listen through an album 4-5 times before buying it.

Do you prefer digital or physical media?
Physical. Nothing beats holding a vinyl in my hands, or a CD for that matter. Digital is really boring in comparison. I use it because it's simple and easy, but I prefer Vinyl or CDs.

Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?
Not at all. I buy music that I like, and that includes both bigger bands which I can find in any store, and smaller bands where I've had to order their CDs through Bandcamp and similar. However, I do get a "better" feeling when I buy something from a smaller artist, because they're often very friendly and sometimes even sign the CD or send a little note, and I get a good feeling about helping out a smaller artist who doesn't have a pile of money.

What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?
Well this is hard to say. I'd say sometimes yeah, sometimes no. For example, I did buy Epicloud with Devin Townsend which I think was a fairly average album. It's not bad, but I don't think it plays in the same league as his best stuff, and I don't see myself listening to it that often. But it's still a solid album and I don't hate myself for buying it.

[Sketchy]

How many album purchases do you afford yourself a month/year?
What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?
Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?
Do you prefer digital or physical media?
Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?
What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?

 - Depends, sometimes I'll go out and buy music when I need something I've not heard before.
 - I tend to just browse in a shop and pick up whatever seems interesting (today I picked up a The Enid album, I've never heard the band before, but this rules hard)
 - I'm vastly in preference of physicals. I love reading through the liners and looking at the art.
 - Edit: misunderstood this question. I do not pirate things. I like buying them and then basking in their immense beauty (or something like that).
 - Sometimes I will grow to like them, sometimes I may not play them more than once a year, but it was worth getting them anyway, otherwise I wouldn't have found this out.

[Fisi]

How many album purchases do you afford yourself a month/year?

I don't dare to answer as it varies so much. Sometimes I buy way too many albums in a short period of time, and then sometimes I don't buy anything at all in a long time.

What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?

Spotify is a good friend of mine. I never pirate anything, so if I want an album, I buy it. I don't think that I'm ever in a situation where I really couldn't 'afford' an album I really want.

Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?

I do listen to legal samples, if such are available. Basically I wouldn't like to spoil too much of the album to me beforehand, so sometimes I even avoid listening to complete songs, even if they were officially published by the artist.

Do you prefer digital or physical media?

This is something I'm not so sure about. I mentioned Spotify earlier in my message, and that is something I'm really unsure about. I love the fact that Spotify allows me to listen to nine hours of free music in a month. That is a truly amazing way to discover all kinds of cool stuff. However, some people pay for the Spotify Premium which allows unlimited listening etc and say that's all the music they need. I find it somehow scary that you pay for a service which gives you music, but when you stop paying for it, you end up having no music at all. Even though the service is really cheap, I prefer using my money to buy actual albums.
 
It is a bit more complicated if we compare iTunes with buying physical albums. When we are talking about new albums, I prefer buying the album from iTunes for the half of the price of the CD version. I don't find the physical copy especially useful as I usually just take a look at it and then let it rest in my shelf. I sometimes do wonder what does owning an album mean. At least here it is perfectly okay and legal to borrow a CD from the library and rip it. After that I have the AAC files on my computer for the rest of my life, just as if I had bought the album from the iTunes. However, of course I can't say that I 'own' the albums I've borrowed from the library, even though there's no real difference to buying it from the iTunes. So, my real moral dilemma here is that I think that if I borrow and rip an album from the library, like it and listen to it very much, it would be perfectly reasonable to actually buy the album. If I bought it from the iTunes, I would get nothing I didn't have before. That kind of spoils the idea of owning, even though I wouldn't call myself a collector at all.

Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?

Well as I don't pirate at all, not really. I buy music that sounds good, it's as simple as that.

What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?

I don't really understand the concept of 'sorta' liking an album. If I really like an album, I buy it. If I don't like, I don't buy it. Of course this also depends on the price of the album. As I mostly discover new music with Spotify these days, I usually buy the album if I find myself wasting too much of my Spotify time to listen to the same album. But really, I don't understand people who say that they pirate albums as they wouldn't buy them anyway. Why do you have to listen to them then...?

[philmcson]

Very glad someone started this topic 

How many album purchases do you afford yourself a month/year?
My pay grade doesn't allow me to buy an unlimited amount of albums and singles, so I restrict myself to buying maybe 3-6 albums/DVDs per year. For now, I'm totally planning to buy the upcoming DT and Maiden and FC DVDs, as well as their albums.... so, basically I tend to buy releases from my favorite artists and download the rest.

What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?
I pirate. Until last year I had the habit of simple not listening to but my small amount of music started making me frustrated. Then I started downloading what Last.FM and my friends recommended me and built a nice stock of albums. I've had the opportunity to listen to some unique artists and visit their concerts (FC, Accept, Ensiferum, Laibach, Muse, The Aristocrats, some local bands,....) which I most likely wouldn't have done if I hadn't listened to some of their albums previously.

Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?
When I download the music, I have it. It doesn't make sense for me to buy a CD to get something I already own, especially if there are bills to be paid.....

Do you prefer digital or physical media?
I like to have physical media from my favorite artists, such as Rammstein, DT, IM, Slayer,.... everything new that they'll release in the future I'll most likely buy. But I certainly won't go and buy all the old DT albums because when I started listening to them, friends gave me their collection of DT albums and I'm not that kind of fanboy that needs to have all of their albums on a shelf to prove a point.

Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?
It depends on how much I like the band, but also on the band's attitude towards selling records. For instance, I listen to a great Croatian nu metal band who has played on Wacken last year. I'd totally support them by buying their albums, but then I found out that they shared their releases among most of their friends and fans from their hometown, so I concluded they don't seem to be that interested in making money by selling their albums and that I would be some sort of "silly" being one of the maybe 5% who bought their releases instead of just downloading them.

What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?
Certainly not, although there's always the gamble that when I buy albums from my favorite bands I'll score an album which I won't like but up to now this hasn't happened.

[r0cken]

I don't really understand the concept of 'sorta' liking an album.

That would be an album that is pleasant but you only listen to from time to time, as opposed to something absolutely orgasmic that you can't let go of for months.

By the way, interesting results so far. I wonder whether the Americans really that morally conscious and law abiding, or is it unique to a specific group of people (this forum/music lovers in general/adults with steady income)...
Because it contradicts certain studies, this one for example, that recently showed that the US is the most pirating country in the world (worldwide chart near the bottom).

[robwebster]

I'm going to give my answers from 2012...

How many albums did I buy in 2012?
One. The 2nd Law, by Muse.

What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?
I listened to Flying Colors on Spotify, an ad-funded legal streaming service. Extensively. Additionally, friend sent me Les Fleurs du Mal, by Therion, which I listened to once. The same friend also sent me Epicloud, by Devin Townsend, which I haven't listened to at all. This is my entire year in music.

Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?
No, I download if someone else wants me to sample the music before I buy.

Do you prefer digital or physical media?
I prefer physical media, but it's not a luxury I can really afford. I'll buy bits and pieces in digital whenever necessary.

Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?
Again, I don't really have the luxury to discriminate. My main priority is buying for me. On top of that, I will have fewer qualms downloading from an artist who's on the record as being cool with it (say, Devin Townsend) than an artist who's not. That said, I don't think not hearing a record is going to make me any more likely to find money to spend on it, so while I mostly make do without, it's not like I'm staying awake at night thinking, "I hope Therion doesn't mind."

What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?
I don't buy albums I really, really like - "sorta" never got a look in. Downloads aren't my way of discovering new bands, the only time I download something is if a friend wants to show one to me. Copyright law states that it's not really theirs to show, which is fair, but at the same time, the worst case scenario is that I listen to it and then carry on with my life. I'm not buying less music because it's being sent direct to my hard drive.

The music industry is fuelled by free samples, though. Musicians dream of radio play, corporations used to illegally bribe radio stations into playing their artists' songs, because the only way anyone finds out they like a band is by listening to that band. Does that justify a world where everyone downloads music by the gallon? I don't think so. And can the public be trusted to pirate responsibly? Not really. But when you asked about whether it matters to me whether the artist's rich or poor, I think that piracy's most noble outcome is that of a universal equaliser.

Because it levels the playing field. Hungarian Folk-Metal Band #143's audiences wouldn't suddenly become any bigger if file-sharing was obliterated. And even if someone who pirates a CD never buys that CD - the worst case scenario, as I said, is that they listen to it once and move on, but if they grow to like the band, they will find ways to talk about it.

Humans are social animals, and a music fan will discuss a band they like, and namedrop it, and recommend it, and bore their friends' tits off, and they will often become part of a chain. And in that way, the information travels across the world. Some people will download it, and those people will tell friends and even more people will download it, and as the music spiders its way across the surface of the planet, the chance that someone is finally going to decide they have to buy the album only gets greater. These aren't people who would've otherwise looked at the CD cover and gone "Yes, let's buy the discography." Very few of them would've seen the CD cover at all, not living in the Hungarian village of Blockelsplatt where Folk-Metal Band #143 do all their gigs. They are, perhaps, people who could just as well have streamed the album over Spotify, downloaded the sampler from the band's official website, people who've been a little greedy - but every time someone in Spain, Canada, Puerto Rico logs onto Amazon and buys Hungarian Folk-Metal Band #143's new album, I don't think that's twenty-three potential sales lost, I think that's a sale gained, and one that could never have happened before the information age.

[Perpetual Change]

There's also the issue of iTunes not being available everywhere in the world, while shipping costs of physical media is sometimes outrageous. So it's different for everybody.

Yeah, I encountered this while I was in HK. Some places in the world have no digital music stores, as well as no good record stores. So, if you really want to buy something, you've got no choice but to pay double in shipping. Plus, you never get things the day they came out. I always hated that. I don't blame anyone in Hong Kong or elsewhere who pirates due to lack of reasonable other options.

How many album purchases do you afford yourself a month/year?

It depends. At "new" price? 0-1 per month.
Digital albums that are set at a low price($6.99-ish)? 0-1 per month.
And usually I make at least one run to a second hand record store each month, coming away with usually 1 or 2 CDs. So I'd say I spend about $20-30 on new music each month.

What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?

While I was living in Hong Kong? Usually, I tried to control myself and just not listen to it. Now that I'm back in the states, it's SPOTIFY for most new things I-want-to-hear-but-can't-afford all the way.

Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?

Nope. Spotify!

Do you prefer digital or physical media?

Digital, if it's considerably cheaper. If the digital version is only cheaper by like a dollar, though, I'll go with the physical one.

Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?

No, not really. In Hong Kong I only bought stuff from "rich" bands because that's all record stores carried usually.

What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?

Sometimes. I love Dylan, and while he certainly has more than a few terrible albums, I buy them when I see them anyway, for collectionist purposes. I've been that way for a few other bands, too.

[snapple]

Now, I'm not from the US and I've heard that over there it's really getting more difficult to download pirated material (correct me if I'm wrong). You're wrong.

[Zook]

How many album purchases do you afford yourself a month/year?
Maybe 10 a year. I don't keep track, but my CD buying has dropped considerably.

What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?
I wont lie, I pirate it, but as soon as I can afford it, I definitely buy.

Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?
Yes. I've wasted too much money buying on a whim.

Do you prefer digital or physical media?
Physical for my collection, and digital for on the go. I love my CD collection.

Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?
Doesn't matter. If they make music that appeals to my ears, they can have my money.

What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?
If they're by my favorite bands, mostly. There are a few of my favorite bands that have gaps in their discography. Also, if I want it for my collection, and it's a mediocre album, I'll look for it used. While the artist doesn't get any money from that, I at least save some money rather than paying full price for crap.


Some of my favorite bands and albums I discovered by pirating. It's still wrong, but I always shell out the cash if I like the music. Albums I don't like are deleted forever and forgot about.

[adameastment]

How many album purchases do you afford yourself a month/year?

Too many, a lot of my albums are bought because I like a song off it, which is why I have a lot of unlistened to stuff.

What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?

Youtube is a fine thing, I usually wait or beg mummy, mummy is good to Adam.

Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?

No, just YouTube

Do you prefer digital or physical media?

Buying through iTunes is awesome since you effectively have a CD since you can download wherever you are in the world, but otherwise either is good.

Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?

Not really, if I like the music I like the music, nothing you can do if you don't like the lesser known act.

What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?

Yes... As I said before I have lots of unlistened to stuff in my library, which annoys me sometimes.

[KevShmev]

So general questions (and lets try to leave DT out of the statistic, cause fans tend to go crazy over buying everything from their favorite band)

I am pretty sure that DT is not the favorite band of the majority here; they aren't my favorite.

Anyway...

How many album purchases do you afford yourself a month/year?

It all depends on how many CDs come out a year that I like and/or want to hear.

What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?

I can always afford to buy something I really want to hear.

Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?

No, but if it is a band or album that a friend or my brother already has, they will sometimes rip it to a CD or give me the mp3 files to check out first.

Do you prefer digital or physical media?

I used to always say physical media, but my CD collection is now so big, that I usually only buy the actual CDs by my favorites, and then I'll buy the digital files of other bands.

Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?

No.

What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?

How can I know if I like them until I buy them and hear them?

But in the cases of hearing them beforehand (like, when I get a copy from my brother, for example, as mentioned above), I am a lot less likely to buy it if I don't love it.  He gave me a copy of the new GY!BE CD, and while I like it, I don't love it, so I haven't gone out of my way to buy my own copy.

[r0cken]

I am pretty sure that DT is not the favorite band of the majority here; they aren't my favorite.

Um...
I mean, I'm also not here for the DT discussion (although they are one of my favorite bands), but I would assume...

[ReaPsTA]

How many album purchases do you afford yourself a month/year?

Less than five.  My money usually goes toward other things.  Buying CD's is zero percent correlated with my ability to hear music.

What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?

Spotify, Youtube, or get it from friends.

Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?

Not really.  If I'm buying a CD, it's for a band like Dream Theater that I already know I like enough to give money to.

Do you prefer digital or physical media?

Digital.  Physical media is worth nothing to me beyond its sentimental value.  I have over 20,000 songs on my computer, and the millions available to me on Spotify and Youtube.  The percentage of those songs I feel strongly enough about to buy on CD is infinitesimally small.

Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?

No.

What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?

No.  If I can buy two CD's I can hear for free or new camera equipment, which do you think I'm going to buy?

[Zook]

No.  If I can buy two CD's I can hear for free or new camera equipment, which do you think I'm going to buy?

This is a really good point, and something I often question, but I still go for the CDs over other important stuff 90% of the time...

[TempusVox]

How many album purchases do you afford yourself a month/year?
It depends. Whatever I buy digitally, I usually also buy a copy of it as well on disc. Usually. I buy and download usually 5 or 6 cds each month. I have 27,412 songs on iTunes as one example right now.

What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?
I don't have this problem. I buy what I want. I have never pirated anything. If I didn't have the money I would find other "legal" means to obtain it.

Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?
Depends. When samples are available I'll usually listen to them.

Do you prefer digital or physical media?
Both. CD's, iTunes, Amazon. My amazon collection has grown a lot this year. I have over 7,000 songs there.

Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?
No.

What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?
Again...it depends. I have bought albums only becuase of one or two songs that I've heard and enjoy.

[Ħ]

How many album purchases do you afford yourself a month/year?

Maybe three or four.

What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?

Just don't listen to it.

Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?

No. But I will use a legal source (youtube or grooveshark). Merely watching an illegally-uploaded youtube video isn't illegal.

Do you prefer digital or physical media?

Physical but digital is useful.

Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?

No.

What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?

Usually no

[ColdFireYYZ]

How many album purchases do you afford yourself a month/year?
It really depends. Recently I've been buying a lot of music, but on average 5-10 a month (including legal downloads). I also download a shitload of music that artists upload for free on Bandcamp, along with some bootlegs and rare out of print stuff.

What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?
I stream it, either on Spotify, Youtube, Bandcamp, or a similar site.

Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?
No, except for album leaks which I end up buying anyway.

Do you prefer digital or physical media?
I prefer physical, but I legally download a lot of music because its cheaper and I can afford more albums that way (e.g. I literally just downloaded an album from Amazon for $4. A new physical copy would be $10 + shipping). I buy physical copies as often as possible though at record stores and concerts, and from certain artists/bands.

Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?
Doesn't matter since I buy my music, but I would feel much more guilty if I downloaded something from a very small, underground band versus The Beatles, for example.

What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?
It all depends. If I stream something and like parts of it, and a download is available cheaply and legally, then I'll buy it. I only buy and listen to full albums so I'll never buy an individual track. Otherwise, I don't know if I "sorta" like it before I buy it because I don't download to sample, unless its a leak. If I download a leak then I'll always buy the album.

[r0cken]

Alright, alright, you've made your point. Topic can be closed. 

[Orbert]

By the way, interesting results so far. I wonder whether the Americans really that morally conscious and law abiding, or is it unique to a specific group of people (this forum/music lovers in general/adults with steady income)...
Because it contradicts certain studies, this one for example, that recently showed that the US is the most pirating country in the world (worldwide chart near the bottom).

I think what you're seeing here is that people who pirate music are less likely to speak up than people who buy music.  It's still considered illegal and generally looked down upon, regardless of their individual mores, so the results will be skewed.

I am pretty sure that DT is not the favorite band of the majority here; they aren't my favorite.

Um...
I mean, I'm also not here for the DT discussion (although they are one of my favorite bands), but I would assume...

That's not a bad assumption.  But this community has been around, in one form or another, for a long time.  I've been here going on 15 years.  During that time, Dream Theater has changed a lot, and so have most of the people here.  There was definitely a time when DT was one of my favorite bands.  Now, I'm not so sure.  They've done some good stuff lately, but nothing in the past ten years has knocked me out like those first couple of albums.

[cramx3]

I don't have a set amount of how much music I buy but it's much less than I used to do to not having the time to invest in many bands like I used to. I buy albums that I want. I often pirate them to get the early release but I buy them when they come out. When I find a new band I often pirate an album to get to know them but I'll buy the albums afterwards if I like. I prefer digital these days as the physical just takes up too much space.

[r0cken]

I think what you're seeing here is that people who pirate music are less likely to speak up than people who buy music.  It's still considered illegal and generally looked down upon, regardless of their individual mores, so the results will be skewed.

Why are they less likely to speak up? Someone above pointed out that I'm wrong in thinking it's more difficult for people in the US to download. By "difficult" I meant internet traffic being monitored and warning letters being sent out by copyright organizations.
So, are they afraid "to get caught" or are they afraid to be "looked down upon"?

[Dr. DTVT]

*Get's on high horse*

How many album purchases do you afford yourself a month/year?

Around 70/year.

What do you do when you can't afford to buy music? Pirate it or just don't listen to it?

    Not an issue for me.

Do you download to sample the music, before you buy?

I check out bands on youtube and the like.

Do you prefer digital or physical media?

I prefer to own physical media, but I rip everything to digital for my iPod.

Does it matter to you if it's an established "rich" band, or a struggling, lesser known artist?

Nope, they all get my money.

What about albums you only "sorta" like? Do you buy them anyway?

I buy albums from bands I never heard of and no one has recommended.

[Perpetual Change]

r0ckon, keep in mind that rampant pirating of music seems to be a one-generational thing, so far. My parents generation didn't download music. My little brother's generation, from what I can tell, doesn't either.

It's really only one generation which decided music isn't worth paying for.

[r0cken]

Perpetual Change, everything changes through generations. It's not about the people of this or that generation, though. It's about technology, about economics and financial situation, about location in the world, and other things.

I loved music as a kid before I had internet or any money to spare. And we still shared and copied. We bought one CD and shared it between friends, we bought in second hand CD shops, we taped music from the TV(!), and we didn't care about the horrid quality. We were no audiophiles, we had crappy cassette players and crappy earphones, but we still enjoyed music, wanted more of it and we got it any way we could. And the record industries still didn't see much money from us.

So it's not really about one particular generation being greedy or amoral. It's just the nature of things. For most people (I believe), this picture sums it up (disclaimer: not meant to offend).

If the young generation has affordable media available anytime they want, good for them, good for the economy of the country and good for the entertainment industry - maybe they are finally doing something right.
But if it wouldn't be affordable or available, those who want it, would get it anyway.

[Orbert]

It's not nearly that simple.  Only people who are against it seem to want to simplfy it.  "It's stealing, period" and "People who download have decided that it isn't worth paying for" are both gross oversimplifications of the dynamics involved.

I think what you're seeing here is that people who pirate music are less likely to speak up than people who buy music.  It's still considered illegal and generally looked down upon, regardless of their individual mores, so the results will be skewed.

Why are they less likely to speak up? Someone above pointed out that I'm wrong in thinking it's more difficult for people in the US to download. By "difficult" I meant internet traffic being monitored and warning letters being sent out by copyright organizations.
So, are they afraid "to get caught" or are they afraid to be "looked down upon"?

I'm not afraid to get caught.  I'm just tired of getting shit for something I do that I'm perfectly fine with doing, but which people who like to feel superior want to give me shit about.  I've explained my reasons a hundred times, and regardless of how I phrase it, people say "Yeah, well you can justify it any way you want, but it's still wrong."

And now that it's been brought up, this thread will now turn into a shitfest about downloading music.

[antigoon]

I pay for Spotify Premium, which has eliminated almost all of my pirating ways. When Spotify doesn't have something I want, one of my friends usually does and he/she will share it with me. I haven't purchased physical or digital albums in over a year.

[Perpetual Change]

So it's not really about one particular generation being greedy or amoral. It's just the nature of things. For most people (I believe), this picture sums it up (disclaimer: not meant to offend).

Exactly, and while one generation slipped through, the next is perfectly happy to download digital music legitimately.

[antigoon]

I love that picture

[robwebster]

I pay for Spotify Premium, which has eliminated almost all of my pirating ways. When Spotify doesn't have something I want, one of my friends usually does and he/she will share it with me. I haven't purchased physical or digital albums in over a year.

I think that's it. There's a sort of tug-of-war going on.

Consumers - particularly young, tech-savvy ones - would take one look at a CD priced around the £18.00 mark and go "Er, no." They're concerned with getting it as cheap as possible. But the record labels have margins to meet, people in umpteen different departments to pay plus the artists, they're not setting their prices high for fun, they're setting them high because they need to. Both have vested, and completely understandable, interests in paying opposite prices.

Do the fat cats at the labels need the enormous salaries they get? Not all of them, no. But equally, do the kids deserve to get all their music for free, no skin off anyone else's back? No, that's not fair, either. Services like Spotify then, finally, have provided a sort of middle ground. A nice, convenient mid-point which doesn't rob anyone, but helps pay the artists at the same time as making music accessible to everyone who wants to hear it.

I think piracy is becoming, and will become, less necessary as time goes on. Spotify, in particular, is a device that can help pay everyone who's worked so hard to make these songs happen, but also keeps culture as readily available as the pirates would, quite understandably, love to have it. People will still want to own music, and of them some people will still want the added value of a disc with a case and artwork (although the people who only tolerated it will move away from it) but it's starting to settle into a nice middle ground where you neither have to pay through your nose nor starve a musician's family if you want to love music. Power is starting to balance, and that's great.

[snapple]

Bands nowadays know that money is made on touring, not album sales.

[Adami]

Bands nowadays know that money is made on touring, not album sales.

This is true, however if a band isn't selling anything, then promoters have no reason to think they're worth booking.