CYNIC

[SPNKr]

bumping because black_floyd mentioned their song How Could I in the tallica thread.

[black_biff_stadler]

I'll get this party started. When did all of you first hear Focus and what was your initial reaction to it? I'd ask about Traced in Air but I already saw most folks' reaction on this forum as it happened lol.

I heard it first in 2000. A very good friend of mine whom got me into virtually every non-mainstream metal band I listened to(except for Death) up to my discovering Opeth on my own from Guitar World or some other guitar mag back in '04 had given me three new cds including Focus, No Interference by Dysrhythmia, and A Social Grace by Psychotic Waltz. Veil of Maya starts and the first minute delightfully reminds me of Death's Human/Individual Thought Patterns era and before I can even get comfy that magical jazz break comes in and absolutely floors me. I'd never heard such a dramatic and well-executed shift in mood and dynamic in a song this heavy in my life. I was hooked. It's been 11 blissful years and I haven't looked back.

I just hope that Paul doesn't release another Traced in Air-type album under the Cynic name. Although I don't like it all that much as of now, I'm hopeful it'll grow on me once I get past the initial samey-ness aspect of it(not talking shit here...I loved Focus from the getgo even though I felt it was a little samey at times before I fully delved into it.) I say this because TiA brought in a lot of new blood which was great because more folks now listen to them but it really sucks to strike up a conversation that goes something like this:

Me: Have you ever listened to Cynic?
Other person: Yeah! They're pretty awesome!
Me: What's your favorite part of Focus?
OP: Uhh. I don't really know. It's okaaay but I'm not big on all the growls. Traced in Air is amazing though.
Me: ...(combs through mind for a way to break the awkward silence)


Same thing seems to have happened with Symphony X. So many r-tards just write off at least half of their pre-Odyssey body of work because the focus wasn't intently placed on heaviness or because they think it sounds cheesy(SymX sounding cheesy, imagine that   ) I'm all about respecting people's opinions but it feels shitty to go several years being into certain bands where it was like finding a needle in a hay stack to ever come across a fan of these bands I thoroughly loved and now despite there being way more fans of them around it actually is even harder to find someone to converse with about these bands since you have to sift through the less open-minded newer fans that disavow the original half of said bands' discographies.

Back to why I hope Paul doesn't release any more stuff like TiA under the Cynic name. I have no problem if he wants to make all of his future material in the same vein as TiA because I don't find it bad at all but it just doesn't represent what Cynic has meant to me or probably a lot of other fans who have held Focus so near and dear to their hearts. It was an incredibly unique and well-written album that was infinitely better than 99% of the stuff in any metal scene at that time and has held up extremely well in the 18 years since its release. I'm not asking him to throw Focus in a Xerox machine for the next Cynic album(if it ever is made) but merely hoping that if we do get a third Cynic album that the growls not be used as pathetically as they were on TiA(burying them in the mix volumewise and frequently masking them with that high-register vocoder stuff was way worse than leaving them out altogether.)

Once again, I'm cool with Paul doing TiA-type stuff but since he's open to having other projects like Portal and Æon Spoke I don't see why he didn't just release TiA with one of those bands or if that wasn't a possibility than simply come up with a new band name altogether since Sean Reinert was the only other Focus-era member of Cynic involved in both the recording and touring that has transpired since the recent reunion.

I just fear that if Paul releases one more album that completely abandons Focus' style that their fanbase will be overrun with newer fans who don't care two shits about Focus and the legacy for that album will be something along the lines of "that rough, early days album before they found their sound" which would be pretty sad.

When error-checking for this post I came across this somewhat misleading quote from Reinert:

In 2008, drummer Sean Reinert gave an update on the second studio album and its musical style in an interview with Metal Hammer saying:

“ Yeah we got tons and tons of stuff lying around man from '94 [1994] to the present day man, it's gonna be great. Everyone can expect something stylistically the same as Focus but more upbeat, energetic and most important of all, pretty god damn brutal! I mean we're gonna mix in Bullacake by Niche Dexplicit into one of our songs but will be using real scary riffs and solos and more savage growling as well as Paul's robotic vocals and keyboarding. Basically all the shit which was there on Focus is all gonna be there with this new one too. But with some new things bundled in and a bit more brutal. It's gonna be good ”
  — Sean Reinert

Maybe this was the way they were headed and Paul got cold feet about it and shifted toward what TiA ultimately became or Reinert was hopeful in the early stages and spoke too soon before he could actually see how the songs were taking shape

[SPNKr]

my friend showed me focus because i liked death, i believe that's why. we sat and listened to it and it was pretty damn good.

[wolfking]

I first heard Focus probably about 1998 - 1999.  I actually can't remember exactly how I found out about them, but it might have been Death.  I picked up the album and listened to it in the car on the way home.  It was like nothing I'd ever heard before.

[skydivingninja]

I picked up Focus after Traced in Air.  You'd think people would complain less about Traced in Air because its not like Focus, considering that we're talking about albums from a very radical prog metal band known for doing something different. 

[lodeus]

Any new album updates?

[black_biff_stadler]

I picked up Focus after Traced in Air.  You'd think people would complain less about Traced in Air because its not like Focus, considering that we're talking about albums from a very radical prog metal band known for doing something different. 

Different is totally fine but the heavy aspect and the way it interacted with the beautiful melodic sections was THE cornerstone of their sound. There're numerous ways to branch out without having to seemingly abandon your initial style. I think Paul's zest for heaviness has long since faded away yet in his mind it might have felt "right" to call it Cynic either based on the reunion with the Seans or the possibility that this was how he envisioned Cynic should sound coalescing to his move away from writing heavy material.

[skydivingninja]

See, trying to pin down Cynic to just one "sound" based on one album when they're clearly a band that is trying to do new things doesn't make sense to me.  Its like the people who complained about Awake not being like I&W.  You listen to a band doing something new, and you expect them to keep doing the same thing?    They're both excellent albums, and I see nothing wrong with calling Traced in Air a Cynic album.  Most of the original members played or wrote on it.  Paul probably mellowed out a lot through the years (when I saw them he was talking about meditating in a local park) which is why it isn't as heavy as Focus, but considering that Cynic was clearly a band whose purpose was to shake things up I see nothing wrong with making something totally different like TiA. 

Any new album updates?

Apparently the new album should be coming in late 2011, and the group is just a duo now with Masvidal and Reinhart. 

[Dr. DTVT]

Checking in to prove BF wrong about only being two Cynic fans.

I first heard Focus in 2000 or so.  I was in college.

[Gorille85]

I think it's not even as radical as, say, Ulver. I have zero issue whatsover with the change of sound. A band should change their name everytime they do something different? Ridiculous.

[Psy]

Traced in Air is a glorious album.

[black_biff_stadler]

Checking in to prove BF wrong about only being two Cynic fans.

Oh I know there are numerous Cynic fans here but I was saying I only knew of two others whom prefer Focus.

I think it's not even as radical as, say, Ulver. I have zero issue whatsover with the change of sound. A band should change their name everytime they do something different? Ridiculous.

Jeez dude, try reading my posts. He went on a 15-year hiatus from Cynic and played in multiple other acts in that time. TiA, minimal growls aside, seems to be a bit more similar to those other bands than Cynic in that they(TiA and the material of Paul's non-Cynic bands) have an emphasis on atmosphere and mood with heaviness being very much an afterthought and at times nonexistent. I have no problem whatsoever with Paul making TiA but it sucked a lot to be looking forward to a new Cynic album for 8 years just to have it be virtually nothing like what their longtime fans had come to expect. You exaggerate to the point of ignorance when you say I'm trying to pin them down to one sound, as if there's only one way in the universe for them to merge death metal with jazz/ambient/avant garde/etc. Paul obviously had this monkey on his back for some time regarding when, if ever, a new Cynic album would come out and for years he was content doing other styles which is beyond fine. He's an accomplished musician and a brilliant songwriter and never owed it us to come out with a new Cynic album just because. My big issue is why, after all this time, would you come out with something you know people are aching to hear and overhaul the sound altogether? I don't know when you got into them so I won't prejudge your level of anticipation leading up to TiA but I'll say that after 8 years of Focus never exiting my alltime top 10 albums it was a huge bummer to think, "maybe in another 15 years(or never.)"

[lateralus88]

I really need to give Traced in Air a full listen. I've heard the first 3 tracks and my friend really enjoys it. Focus however, I fucking love. Took me a while to really appreciate it (partially because the production feels really "small" at times) but man what a good album.

I'm a relatively new fan, seeing how I've known about Cynic for years but never checked out Focus until about a year or two ago.

[Gorille85]

My big issue is why, after all this time, would you come out with something you know people are aching to hear and overhaul the sound altogether? I don't know when you got into them so I won't prejudge your level of anticipation leading up to TiA but I'll say that after 8 years of Focus never exiting my alltime top 10 albums it was a huge bummer to think, "maybe in another 15 years(or never.)"

But at the same time, one would suspect that a band like Cynic would change at least a fair bit in 8 years, right? I still feel like it's the same band though. Like, I understand how fans of Radiohead may have been confused during the OK Computer --> Kid A phase. Changing that much in three years is more of a shock than doing it in 8 years, don't you think? Again, it's still feels like two albums from the same band to me.

[black_biff_stadler]

My big issue is why, after all this time, would you come out with something you know people are aching to hear and overhaul the sound altogether? I don't know when you got into them so I won't prejudge your level of anticipation leading up to TiA but I'll say that after 8 years of Focus never exiting my alltime top 10 albums it was a huge bummer to think, "maybe in another 15 years(or never.)"

But at the same time, one would suspect that a band like Cynic would change at least a fair bit in 8 years, right? I still feel like it's the same band though. Like, I understand how fans of Radiohead may have been confused during the OK Computer --> Kid A phase. Changing that much in three years is more of a shock than doing it in 8 years, don't you think? Again, it's still feels like two albums from the same band to me.

I respect all your points and agree with them to at least a slight extent. Alls I was sayin is that if he didn't feel like putting out something even in the same ballpark stylistically as Focus(imo anyway lol) then he had numerous alternate routes to take. Additionally, Sean Reinert was the only other original dude to be involved in both the recording/touring in full since the recent reunion.

This will shed light in a way far more concise than my windbaggery will: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynic_(band)#Reunion_.282006-2007.29

[Ryzee]

Love Focus.  I've actually never heard Traced In Air, but I do have the remix EP Re-Traced and I really dig it.

[Kyo]

New Cynic EP coming this November:


Six brand-new tracks - with bass once again recorded by Sean Malone!

More here:
https://www.season-of-mist.com/bands/cynic

[Gadough]

That's awesome and I'm excited for it; don't get me wrong, but I thought they were releasing a new full-length? I mean, Focus and Traced in Air are already so short, they could write two more songs, attach it to the EP, and make it an LP. Why not do that?

[zxlkho]

Really excited for this. I've been loving this band lately.

[Gorille85]

That's awesome and I'm excited for it; don't get me wrong, but I thought they were releasing a new full-length? I mean, Focus and Traced in Air are already so short, they could write two more songs, attach it to the EP, and make it an LP. Why not do that?

Maybe for the flow... Anyhoo, I'm really excited for this!

[pain of occupation]

awesome news (even if its only an EP)! 2011 just keeps getting better.

[wolfking]

Amazing.  Can't wait.

[Dark Castle]

That's awesome and I'm excited for it; don't get me wrong, but I thought they were releasing a new full-length? I mean, Focus and Traced in Air are already so short, they could write two more songs, attach it to the EP, and make it an LP. Why not do that?

They've already written more for a full length.  I'd rather get an Ep and and Lp wouldn't you?

[faemir]

This topic has reminded me to listen to Focus, I've liked a lot of Traced for ages, but it did seem a bit samey, or maybe i didnt give it enough listens.

[Ben_Jamin]

This thread just reminded me, since I can, to find Focus and listen to it fully. I've only hear Veil of Maya, Eagle Nature and one I can't name. I enjoyed them all and wanted to enjoy the rest. One thing that bugs is the production, but that's not my fault. I enjoyed the Flow of TiA, and if Focus does this then that album would be considered ahead of its time.

[SPNKr]

i don't want a fucking new ep. i want a fuckin album for once

[black_biff_stadler]

Anyone know if Paul's gonna phase out growling altogether on this one? Given their diminished role on TiA and the apparent inclusion of a female singer I could very easily see the death vox gone forever  

[wolfking]

Anyone know if Paul's gonna phase out growling altogether on this one? Given their diminished role on TiA and the apparent inclusion of a female singer I could very easily see the death vox gone forever  

Yeah, not to mention the Re-Traced EP.

[Perpetual Change]

That's fine. The deathvox were pretty much a distraction on TiA.

[black_biff_stadler]

That's fine. The deathvox were pretty much a distraction on TiA.

And also a somewhat significant reason that a fair bit of the Cynic oldtimers didn't like it quite as much as Focus. They implemented it horribly on that album. Growls were always buried in the mix and were reduced to a laughably smaller role on that album. Can only take so much of Paul's moaning processed vocals. Bring back the growls I beg you Mr. Masvidal.

[Ben_Jamin]

That's fine. The deathvox were pretty much a distraction on TiA.

And also a somewhat significant reason that a fair bit of the Cynic oldtimers didn't like it quite as much as Focus. They implemented it horribly on that album. Growls were always buried in the mix and were reduced to a laughably smaller role on that album. Can only take so much of Paul's moaning processed vocals. Bring back the growls I beg you Mr. Masvidal.

Maybe he just got tired of them. I really don't mind at all what an artist does. Its been what more than 8 years since Focus was released. People change, and the original line-up probably weren't into doing Cynic as much as Reinhart and Masvidal. So, in turn don't expect a band who hasn't been together for more than 8 years to churn out the ONLY album they released again.

As I have been saying Cynic were way ahead of their time at that point. Now they're playing together again, and thats all that matters. Growls or no Growls doesn't bother me at all. Since going into music shouldn't involve expectations, just go into it with an open mind as if discovering a new band, not knowing what to expect. Not hard at all, and also might be why I enjoy lots of unpopular songs.

[black_biff_stadler]

Maybe he just got tired of them. I really don't mind at all what an artist does. Its been what more than 8 years since Focus was released. People change, and the original line-up probably weren't into doing Cynic as much as Reinhart and Masvidal. So, in turn don't expect a band who hasn't been together for more than 8 years to churn out the ONLY album they released again.

As I have been saying Cynic were way ahead of their time at that point. Now they're playing together again, and thats all that matters. Growls or no Growls doesn't bother me at all. Since going into music shouldn't involve expectations, just go into it with an open mind as if discovering a new band, not knowing what to expect. Not hard at all, and also might be why I enjoy lots of unpopular songs.

How did I indicate I wanted a carbon-copied rehash? It's also quite easy for you to have an apathetical view on growls since they apparently never meant that much to you as a component of Cynic's music. Additionally, expectations are totally fine. If you think otherwise then good for you but I really am not sure why you think that way. If you went to a restaurant and had an incredible ribeye but returned there to find out that they were now only doing chicken it seems plausible that you might be somewhat put off. It just sucks that a band that made one of (probably) my five favorite albums ever seems to never intend on doing anything remotely close to that again. And no, don't misinterpret this as wanting a rehash but rather that I deeply miss quality death metal with all of the wonderfully-surprising elements that were incorporated into it on Focus. You can continue to push the envelope in a familiar sound without getting stagnant. If you can't realize this then I'd say you're beyond guilty of having the same "expectations" you accused me of since you're expecting that any continuation in the same vein of Focus would just be "churn[ing] out the ONLY album they released again."

[wolfking]

I agree with Floyd.  The growls were part of the sound, they lost a lot of depth to their music IMO when they diminished the growls on TIA.

[black_biff_stadler]

Cynic isn't ruined by anything.

/thread

Jeez, it's like "Cynic fanboys unite!!!" the way you and I always seem to pounce on these Cynic threads in 1-2 fashion

Cynic fanboys unite.  I'm up for that!! At least we are safe knowing any sort of Cynic thread will never slip through the cracks! 

I mean, how could you not love this man.  His guitar has no headstock ffs 

He plays with the guitar that high so the 7 girls in the audience can gawk at his huge dick.

[wolfking]