MLB 2013 v. A-Rod Suspended for 162 Games (Thank You Based God)

[snapple]

2000 Yankees I think only had 87 wins

[wkiml]

Cabrera did something that has only been done 15 times before in the entire history of baseball, because prior Triple Crown winners didn't win the MVP doesn't take away from what he accomplished this year

Trout had a great season...Cabrera had a slightly better one

[orcus116]

As a power hitter. But as a baseball player (offense, defense, baserunning, etc) Trout had a much better season. Miggy's defense isn't even excusable.

[snapple]

Cabrera did something that has only been done 15 times before in the entire history of baseball, because prior Triple Crown winners didn't win the MVP doesn't take away from what he accomplished this year

Trout had a great season...Cabrera had a slightly better one

Not really. Cabrera's GIDP rate killed offensive rallies.

[wkiml]

https://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/15/3919376/why-cabrera-over-trout-for-me.html

other voters have voiced the same opinion  all the ballots are available to be viewed


https://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/miguel-cabrera-deserving-winner-of-al-mvp-award-but-why-did-arguments-about-race-get-so-snarky-111512

another good agrument...maybe its time for 2 awards

Best overall baseball player

Best Hitter

[Dimitrius]

Yeah, those are the same players who believe ionic necklaces and magnetic bracelets will improve their baseball skills and hop over the third base line because touching it will give them bad luck.

[orcus116]

That was a whole article about nothing.

[snapple]

Yeah, those are the same players who believe ionic necklace and magnetic bracelets will improve their baseball skills.

..t-....th..th-ey don't?

[wkiml]

there are agruments for both sides.....because they didn't agree with what you determine what makes an MVP ,makes it wrong ?

[Dimitrius]

Best overall baseball player

Best Hitter

We have them, they're called the MVP Award and the Hank Aaron Award...

there are agruments for both sides.....because they didn't agree with what you determine what makes an MVP ,makes it wrong ?

I'm disagreeing more with how he got there. If he said "I voted for Cabrera because to me he's the MVP for this and this and this." OK, cool, I can respect that. But going like "the players told me so as well" is not a very good argument IMO, he's basically basing his whole column on that and not giving his own opinion on it other than  "I thought he was the MVP".  He could've said "I was all for Trout, but he slumped in September while Cabrera didn't and that swayed me" and I would've said it was fair enough.

But I don't think neither myself, snapple and orcus (the main people arguing against Miggy) have said once that he isn't deserving.

[snapple]

there are agruments for both sides.....because they didn't agree with what you determine what makes an MVP ,makes it wrong ?

Cabrera isn't a bad winner for the award. The use of "TRIP CROWNZ" is asinine and wrong. AVG/HR/RBI doesn't really paint a picture for what Cabrera did over the course of the season. If someone can put together an argument for Cabby that DOESN'T use triple crown, I'm all ears.

[wkiml]

Just for shits and giggles

lets look at September...Pennant Race

Miggy   11 hrs   30 rbi's  average on sept 1 .332   average at end of season .331

Trout     5 hrs     9 rbi's   average on sept 1  .336   average at end of season .326

For the entire season   Miggy had 31 hits that either tied the game or put Detroit ahead
                                     Trout had 15

from an offense point  Miggy was much more valuable to his team when they needed him to be

[Dimitrius]

https://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/miguel-cabrera-deserving-winner-of-al-mvp-award-but-why-did-arguments-about-race-get-so-snarky-111512

This dude was making good arguments but then he goes and says this:

Cabrera was the foremost run producer (139 RBI)... and learned a new defensive position (third base) in order to improve his team.

First of all RBIs do not a good batter make, they're a function of who's batting in front of you and their abilities to get on base. Put any quality hitter batting behind people that have a .330, .377, .370 OBP (these are the numbers for Quintin Berry, Austin Jackson and Andy Dirks) and he'll get you at least 90 RBIs every year.

Learned a new position?! He had played a total of 230 games on 3B before this year! That's "learning" a new position?! Oh and yeah he was the worst 3B in all of baseball so yeah he improved them a lot.

[snapple]

Trout is also a leadoff guy. Unreal.

[wkiml]

there are valid arguements on both sides I really don't understand the uproar

you asked for an arguement I gave you some stats that show Miggy was more valuable to his team down the stretch when it matter most

now your going to argue where they hit in the line-up ? which is a mangers decision

[jcmistat]

Holy shit Blue Jays to sign Melky Cabrera for a 2 year, 16 million dollar deal.

[Dimitrius]

Had he not been caught with steroids he would've made about 50 million more!

[Dimitrius]

https://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8639534

Podcast were BBWA member Keith Law rips the rest of the BBWA voters for the MVP results, I agree with pretty much all of what he says. Listen to it if you wanna but be aware that the host, Eric Karabell, and Law were saying "Trout for MVP" since mid-August. 

Some pretty good things are talked about why the voting process should be changed for all awards.

[jcmistat]

Had he not been caught with steroids he would've made about 50 million more!

I thought he would get a really small deal like 3 million one year not 16!

[KevShmev]

https://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8639534

Podcast were BBWA member Keith Law rips the rest of the BBWA voters for the MVP results, I agree with pretty much all of what he says. Listen to it if you wanna but be aware that the host, Eric Karabell, and Law were saying "Trout for MVP" since mid-August. 

Some pretty good things are talked about why the voting process should be changed for all awards.

Who should have won aside, Law is awful.  Just awful.  He's one of those media guys who should never be taken seriously.

[orcus116]

Why? He's 100% right in this situation.

[KevShmev]

I said, "Who should have won this aside..."  Besides, listening to that, him saying that the Angels games were important in September, but the Tigers game weren't, is really, really dumb.  Yes, the Tigers were aided by the White Sox collapse, but to say the Tigers games were thus unimportant is stupid.  Had they played under .500 ball down the stretch, they wouldn't have overtaken the collapsing White Sox, so their games were important.  Law saying otherwise is just him being over the top in trying to defend his POV.

[orcus116]

What he's saying is that there wasn't much of a playoff run for the Tigers as their schedule had them playing against teams with some of the worst ERAs in the league (Twins, Royals) so the challenge to make the playoffs wasn't nearly as difficult as the Angels who were playing against teams like Oakland and Seattle with some of the best pitching the AL. It wasn't like the Tigers had to battle, especially considering their mediocre record. They're extremely lucky they played in what was such a weak division last year.

I also find it amusing when you have a player like Miggy who just happened to have the best or better than most stats on his team and since his team just happened to make the playoff suddenly he's that one guy who carried the team. Meanwhile you have players like Prince, Austin Jackson, Max Scherzer, etc who all had really good seasons and one would logically think that a baseball team, as a collective, would be responsible for pretty much every win but no it was definitely all Miggy to save the day.

[KevShmev]

Okay, but you can't control who you play; the schedule it what it is.  And while the Tigers benefited from playing KC and Minnesota the last two weeks, let's not forget that they took 2 out of 3 from the A's right before that (the same A's who were red hot down the stretch; the same A's who had won 3 out of 4 at LAA a week earlier).  That was huge in keeping them only 2 games behind the White Sox before the final stretch. 

And let's not forget that the Angels have a totally stacked team.  Some have made a big deal of the edge Trout had over Cabrera in runs scored, but having hitters like Tori Hunter and Albert Pujols behind you sure does make it easier to score a lot of runs, no?  Plus, some act like Trout coming up and playing is what magically turned the Angels around, but it is important to remember that Pujols got off to a dreadful start, and the Angels turnaround coincided with Pujols breaking out of his slump as well as Trout playing, but the Trout fans want to act like it was all Trout who turned their season around.  So, while Cabrera obviously wasn't the guy who solely carried his team, neither was Trout.  Defenders of both guys' case have overstated it in their favor.  I just think acting like Trout should have won with zero doubt to it all is absurd.  If you think he should have won, that is fine, but to think it is not even disputable?  Come on.

[orcus116]

Well since it's a player award (hitting, defense, baserunning, etc.) and not a hitting award (which is what the Hank Aaron is) it really isn't disputable. The Triple Crown nonsense really is the only reason Miggy ran away with it. Had Hamilton hit a couple more homers or Trout hitting for 5 more points for average, both of which are incredibly slim margins, we would be talking about Trout as MVP.

Also my friend just brought this back up:

[Dimitrius]

[snapple]

I called my dad to see if he knew about the card... He cut me off and said "yeah, I know what it says" haha

[KevShmev]

Well since it's a player award (hitting, defense, baserunning, etc.) and not a hitting award (which is what the Hank Aaron is) it really isn't disputable.

Oh.  I guess that's why the guy who should have been the undisputed winner lost, right?

The Triple Crown nonsense really is the only reason Miggy ran away with it. Had Hamilton hit a couple more homers or Trout hitting for 5 more points for average, both of which are incredibly slim margins, we would be talking about Trout as MVP.

But they didn't.

[orcus116]

Well since it's a player award (hitting, defense, baserunning, etc.) and not a hitting award (which is what the Hank Aaron is) it really isn't disputable.

Oh.  I guess that's why the guy who should have been the undisputed winner lost, right?

That's because most voters in the BBWAA are stuck in the archaic mindset of MVP being a hitting award (with the occasional pitcher like Verlander last year I suppose). Defense is a huge part of baseball and it's almost always ignored in these awards, which is criminal.

The Triple Crown nonsense really is the only reason Miggy ran away with it. Had Hamilton hit a couple more homers or Trout hitting for 5 more points for average, both of which are incredibly slim margins, we would be talking about Trout as MVP.

But they didn't.

But it really does go to show how close this "legendary" season was from being just another very good season from Cabrera.

[snapple]

I think we've beaten this horse pretty much dead.

SNAPPLE'S 2012 OFFICIAL YANKEES OFFSEASON MOVES POWER RANKINGS

1. Sign Kuroda on a one year (go up to 21M dude is legit)
2. Sign Russell Martin 3/28
3. Sign Cano 7/180
4. Sign Rivera (#4 because D-Rob is legit and Rivera will probably only pitch for the Yankees)
5. Sign Pettitte
6. Sign Puma 1/12 (Can play RF, 1B, DH)
..
...
....
9001. Sign Soriano (I like him, but he isn't needed and will command too much $)
90001. Sign Greinke
9000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001. Sign Nick Swisher

[orcus116]

$21MM for 1 year of Kuroda? lol

[snapple]

$21MM for 1 year of Kuroda? lol

Our options suck behind him. Might as well make it count.

[orcus116]

Look, just cause Carlos Silva and Oliver Perez got stupid deals doesn't mean you offer a very good, but not great pitcher about 1.5 times his worth.

[snapple]

Did you see Kuroda's numbers last year? He is LEGIT.

[YtseBitsySpider]

Good grief.
Im a blue jays fan....and everything about these moves seems desperate to be seen doing SOMETHING.

most, if not all of what they got from Miami looks...past prime or damaged. Wait...did we dump Wells just so we could add more of the same???

and then a juiced up player coming off suspension? Next who? Barry Bonds? and finally....I knew John Gibbons from "Nam" when he pulled me out of that fox hole...(wait-edit-that wasn't john gibbons who lied about being in nam it was another manager the jays had johnson?)

(one candian who is not dancing with glee from aa's moves)