Author Topic: Where does the Republican Party go now?  (Read 24434 times)

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Offline rumborak

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2012, 05:05:40 PM »
Oh, I know, and it's sad. But while Obama gets happily reelected as a pro-Evolution president, I'm going out on a limb here that a pro-Evolution Republican wouldn't have made it past the primaries (and indeed didn't; Huntsman got canned pretty quickly).
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2012, 05:59:47 PM »
:lol That's not why Huntsman got canned, is it?
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2012, 07:26:10 PM »
Well, it's pretty damn hard to come up with a good reason why he did.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2012, 08:17:57 PM »
:lol That's not why Huntsman got canned, is it?
He was the least "conservative" of the bunch, in more ways than one.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2012, 09:17:08 PM »
I thought it was because he was a DT fan

Offline theseoafs

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2012, 09:19:18 PM »
I thought it was because he was a DT fan

>googles "huntsman dream theater"

My god, I knew there was a reason I liked Jon Huntsman. :lol

Offline ThatcrazyKISSfan

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2012, 09:20:34 PM »
I'm not sure that the evangelicals will not vote for a moderate Republican.  What are they going to do, vote Democrat?  If Romney had come out as pro-choice, pro gay marriage and pro drug, the bible thumpers would bitch and moan, but probably still go out to vote against Obama.

Quite possibly vote democratic, or third party, or stay home.  As a libertarian, I would love to see....say Gary Johnson, get the rep nom, and win.  But I believe he would lose a lot of those votes.  Perhaps they should actually be a party of states' rights.....let the states decide gay marriage and pot......keep pro-life, but keep pot and marriage state issues.......just a thought.  But I do think they'd be down for the count if they didn't do something to keep the Evangelicals. 

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2012, 09:42:42 PM »
Honestly, dude? I feel like "let the states decide" is the worst answer possible in the modern world. And it's one of the reasons why libertarians don't really appease me. "Let the states decide" is their answer to literally every tough question out there.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2012, 09:48:09 PM »
If you think Johnson could win, maybe you should ask first why Paul never got anywhere.
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Offline adace

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2012, 09:50:29 PM »
Honestly, dude? I feel like "let the states decide" is the worst answer possible in the modern world. And it's one of the reasons why libertarians don't really appease me. "Let the states decide" is their answer to literally every tough question out there.
Exactly. Libertarians who argue that states' rights are the magic cure for everything are utterly inconsistent. What does it matter if it's the federal government or a state government prohibiting pot, gay marriage etc.? And of course the notion of states' rights has been used to justify slavery which is anti-libertarian in every respect.

Offline slycordinator

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2012, 11:26:41 PM »
Honestly, dude? I feel like "let the states decide" is the worst answer possible in the modern world. And it's one of the reasons why libertarians don't really appease me. "Let the states decide" is their answer to literally every tough question out there.
It just happens that there's quite a bit of people who share many libertarian views while also being strict fairly constitutionalists, but the latter views (strict constitutionalism) isn't part of the former (libertarianism).

Offline theliloutkast

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2012, 11:46:35 PM »
I honestly believe the Democrats have California in their back pocket unless Republicans change their stance on a few things. One of them being gay marriage. Until then, the Democrats have a pretty big advantage.

Offline Progmetty

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2012, 01:42:26 AM »
I think Ron Paul is right on, his statement is possibly the first one I read from a conservative that doesn't have a hint of denial or placing blame on senseless shit.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2012, 06:03:30 AM »
Honestly, dude? I feel like "let the states decide" is the worst answer possible in the modern world. And it's one of the reasons why libertarians don't really appease me. "Let the states decide" is their answer to literally every tough question out there.
Exactly. Libertarians who argue that states' rights are the magic cure for everything are utterly inconsistent. What does it matter if it's the federal government or a state government prohibiting pot, gay marriage etc.? And of course the notion of states' rights has been used to justify slavery which is anti-libertarian in every respect.


Exactly. If something is your "human right", it should be across the board, and no one should be allowed to deny that right legally. That's why the state's rights answer is such a cop-out. And, as Lincoln believed, on many issues there needs to be an across-the-board standard. Unfortunately for libertarians, moral issues are just the type of issues that demand that. But that's libertarian-ism, really; a rebirth of old southern style thinking.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2012, 08:36:18 AM »
:lol That's not why Huntsman got canned, is it?

Well, during the primaries he said "To be clear. I believe in evolution and trust scientists on global warming. Call me crazy.""
In a party dominated by wholesale denial of scientific evidence, that's pretty much a death sentence.
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Offline Rathma

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2012, 12:24:56 PM »
lol what a crazy motherfucker

Offline cramx3

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2012, 12:31:13 PM »
I think Ron Paul is right on, his statement is possibly the first one I read from a conservative that doesn't have a hint of denial or placing blame on senseless shit.

I wished Ron Paul was on the ballot.  I would have voted for him, sure I could have written him in, but it's not the same.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #52 on: November 10, 2012, 03:45:26 PM »
I'm not sure that the evangelicals will not vote for a moderate Republican.  What are they going to do, vote Democrat?  If Romney had come out as pro-choice, pro gay marriage and pro drug, the bible thumpers would bitch and moan, but probably still go out to vote against Obama.

Quite possibly vote democratic, or third party, or stay home.  As a libertarian, I would love to see....say Gary Johnson, get the rep nom, and win.  But I believe he would lose a lot of those votes.  Perhaps they should actually be a party of states' rights.....let the states decide gay marriage and pot......keep pro-life, but keep pot and marriage state issues.......just a thought.  But I do think they'd be down for the count if they didn't do something to keep the Evangelicals.

The issue isn't so clear cut. Due to the Constitution, States have to respect the laws of other states; so if you're married in California, you have to respect that marriage in Kentucky. If Gay Marraige is legal in California, people can go there, get married, and Kentucky has to honor it. But that brings up the issue that Kentuckians may not want Gay Marriage, yet they have to respect it, and it can pretty much end up as the same result. The same is true for pot, becuase if pot is legal in bordering states, it's almost assuredly going to effect your state, and create an influx of marijuana.

This is why we have a Federal Government.

Honestly, dude? I feel like "let the states decide" is the worst answer possible in the modern world. And it's one of the reasons why libertarians don't really appease me. "Let the states decide" is their answer to literally every tough question out there.
Exactly. Libertarians who argue that states' rights are the magic cure for everything are utterly inconsistent. What does it matter if it's the federal government or a state government prohibiting pot, gay marriage etc.? And of course the notion of states' rights has been used to justify slavery which is anti-libertarian in every respect.


Exactly. If something is your "human right", it should be across the board, and no one should be allowed to deny that right legally. That's why the state's rights answer is such a cop-out. And, as Lincoln believed, on many issues there needs to be an across-the-board standard. Unfortunately for libertarians, moral issues are just the type of issues that demand that. But that's libertarian-ism, really; a rebirth of old southern style thinking.

Administratively, it makes sense to me - but, that's largely how we do it anyways. The Federal Government doesn't do a whole lot in administering Medicaid or even Food Stamps; they require the states to administer it, and each state has it's own program.

Offline Scorpion

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2012, 01:38:32 PM »
I thought it was because he was a DT fan

>googles "huntsman dream theater"

My god, I knew there was a reason I liked Jon Huntsman. :lol

Sorry for the tangent, but I wanted to bring this up, from an article about Jon Huntsman and Dream Theater:

https://www.metalsucks.net/2007/08/01/utah-governor-declares-dream-theater-day/

Quote
When asked before the show how Utah’s Mormon tradition would influence Dream Theater’s preference for musical masturbation, Governor Huntsman had no comment.

:lol
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2012, 05:47:51 PM »
CNN had a panel discussion on the thread topic, including Huntsman.

https://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/11/cnn-panel-reflects-divide-in-gop-on-partys-future/

As one could have predicted, they all disagree where the problem is.
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Offline The King in Crimson

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2012, 07:15:11 PM »
And Huntsman, again, demonstrates why he should've been the nominee.

Offline theseoafs

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2012, 07:15:56 PM »
Huntsman might be the president right now if he'd gotten the nomination, and I'd be completely alright with that.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2012, 07:28:33 PM »
If Huntsman had been he nominee I easily could easily imagine myself having voted for him.
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2012, 07:41:59 PM »
I might not have voted for him, let's be honest, but I would've been okay with him winning.
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2012, 09:47:23 PM »
I hear some of you praising Huntsman and then in the next breathe you're ready to bash Libertarians. I see nothing but basic Libertarian messages in everything that he said in that discussion. What gives?
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2012, 09:50:55 PM »
Fiscally responsible != Libertarian
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2012, 10:28:10 PM »
Fiscally responsible != Libertarian

He says the message should to be fiscally responsible and to keep government out of everyone's lives as much as possible. Real basic libertarian stuff.
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2012, 10:35:58 PM »
Cept he seems like he moderates his policies. Gary Johnson doesn't bother me either.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #63 on: November 12, 2012, 04:29:45 AM »
It's possible to like some of his policies and dislike other of his policies. As should be of no surprise here, I find his energy policy at least sensible, even if I believe it could be better. And he seems to be in touch with reality.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #64 on: November 12, 2012, 06:01:30 AM »
Fiscally responsible != Libertarian

He says the message should to be fiscally responsible and to keep government out of everyone's lives as much as possible. Real basic libertarian stuff.

Those are classic liberal virtues from which almost all of our political thinking stems, including the rogue-child "libertarianism". When you get deeper into libertarianism, you find it's self-proclaimed adherents often express extreme opinions, not about "keeping government out of everyone's lives as much as possible" but "keeping government out of everyone's lives at all costs."

And, only in libertarian circles is "fiscal responsibility" described as "worldwide financial self-destruction so we can gamble on the gold standard again."
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 06:08:21 AM by Perpetual Change »

Offline rumborak

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2012, 07:35:19 AM »
Apparently Obama called Romney a poopy head, and that's the reason Obama won:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/11/12/grover-norquist_n_2116219.html?icid=hp_front_popular_art
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 07:43:21 AM by rumborak »
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Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #66 on: November 13, 2012, 10:28:12 AM »
The only problem I have with Huntsman is that he is VERY pro life.  Utah has a law that automatically bans it in the state if/when Roe v. Wade is overturned.  I don't see him being a big fan of gay marriage either, but that panel seems to suggest he'd keep it a states-decide issue at least. 

God I wish he was the nominee so bad.  Ignoring Iowa early was probably a bad move on his part as well. 

Offline Ħ

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #67 on: November 13, 2012, 12:13:51 PM »
As the "official" DT fanbase, we should all get behind Huntsman. We need a national Dream Theater Day.
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #68 on: November 13, 2012, 01:29:42 PM »
As the "official" DT fanbase, we should all get behind Huntsman. We need a national Dream Theater Day.

If he would have won the nomination I would have voted for him. Consider me signed up already.
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Offline ResultsMayVary

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Re: Where does the Republican Party go now?
« Reply #69 on: November 14, 2012, 11:07:44 AM »
He would have gotten my vote as well.
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