Author Topic: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use  (Read 120204 times)

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Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #245 on: December 16, 2013, 10:24:46 PM »
While that's certainly possible, something that bears mentioning is that more often than not when you hear about these pot busts, it tends to be part of a much larger operation. How many shops got hit when they nabbed that Daubert guy? Wasn't it something like 30, and months worth of investigation? Same thing with Colorado and California. The AG might not have day to day say so about who his agents investigate, but when it comes to national or statewide operations, you'd be best to bet that he signed off on it. As it pertains to the bigger picture, I don't think it's just individual shops and dopers that get busted making up 1%.
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #246 on: December 17, 2013, 09:57:31 PM »
That same Daubert case involved what was reported to be large-scale trafficking. Which flies in the face of state law - even if all we're talking about is buying from another dispensary. Which means nothing done by that investigation in any way contradicts Holders or the DoJ's official stance. They said they would allow state-legal operations to continue, and the  charges brought forth (and the plea deal agreed upon) say that Montana Cannabis was not a state-legal operation. In that case, at least, I see nothing to indicate a change in positions by the DoJ.

Honestly, you wanna know part of what I think happened? People heard Holders statement, and they basically thought they were in the clear. People got over ambitious, they got reckless, and they improperly understood the legal situation. Which is and was a clusterfuck to begin with. Combine that with the beuarcracy and status quo, and you're going to get raids, busts and a lot of seemingly bullshit even though both sides are trying to be honest brokers. Okay, maybe honest brokers shouldn't apply to the DEA and such, but the general point remains.

*edit*

To just add a little bit to the end, you can be sure the Feds aren't going to just be sitting back and hoping people are following the state laws. They're going to be testing companies and people for people who break the law, because that's sorta their MO. Once they found non-compliance with state law, they were technically then within their guidelines to go after the guys, and they probably only know one way to do that. Which is the overblown, SWAT style raid.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 11:44:47 PM by Scheavo »

Offline Chino

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #247 on: January 02, 2014, 05:47:28 PM »

Marijuana Overdoses Kill 37 in Colorado On First Day of Legalization

https://dailycurrant.com/2014/01/02/marijuana-overdoses-kill-37-in-colorado-on-first-day-of-legalization/

"According to a report in the Rocky Mountain News, 37 people were killed across the state on January 1st, the first day the drug became legal for all adults to use. Several more are clinging onto life in local emergency rooms and are not expected to survive."






























 :rollin

Offline black_biff_stadler

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #248 on: January 02, 2014, 10:55:52 PM »
So how many parody news sites are trying to ride the Onion's coattails by using produce in their name?
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Offline The King in Crimson

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #249 on: January 02, 2014, 11:30:43 PM »
Well, at least one good thing came out of this tragic turn of events: we found out what happened to Jesse Pinkman.

Offline jonnybaxy

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #250 on: January 17, 2014, 06:14:08 PM »
Seems like i'm one of the only ones against this...

But atleast listen to my side first,

I'm 17, live in the UK where it's illegal and some of my closest friends are pot heads, basically they started but out will small bags say about 0.8g and we'd have a good time, but they started just spending more money on it, up to the point where they spend 60 for one night on it, they became dopey and selling out their friend for weed.

They still do and most of the time they don't go a day without having at least one joint, anyone who says pot doesn't affect your brain is a liar or ignorant.

And as i have found out with both my friends and me, It is a gateway drug to trying other things as well.

What about pot and driving? I have smoked it and had bad effects, and that is even worse whilst drinking at the same time.

Offline j

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #251 on: January 17, 2014, 06:36:15 PM »
I'm 17, live in the UK where it's illegal and some of my closest friends are pot heads, basically they started but out will small bags say about 0.8g and we'd have a good time, but they started just spending more money on it, up to the point where they spend 60 for one night on it, they became dopey and selling out their friend for weed.

They still do and most of the time they don't go a day without having at least one joint, anyone who says pot doesn't affect your brain is a liar or ignorant.

And as i have found out with both my friends and me, It is a gateway drug to trying other things as well.

Correlation =/= causation, etc.  More likely personality traits and other factors responsible for your friends' behavior.

But of course it "affects your brain," why else would you use it?

Quote
What about pot and driving? I have smoked it and had bad effects, and that is even worse whilst drinking at the same time.

I'm certain no one endorsing weed legalization in this thread would approve of driving under the influence of a mind-altering substance.

-J

Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #252 on: January 17, 2014, 06:43:44 PM »
Seems like i'm one of the only ones against this...

But atleast listen to my side first,

I'm 17, live in the UK where it's illegal and some of my closest friends are pot heads, basically they started but out will small bags say about 0.8g and we'd have a good time, but they started just spending more money on it, up to the point where they spend 60 for one night on it, they became dopey and selling out their friend for weed.

They still do and most of the time they don't go a day without having at least one joint, anyone who says pot doesn't affect your brain is a liar or ignorant.

And as i have found out with both my friends and me, It is a gateway drug to trying other things as well.

What about pot and driving? I have smoked it and had bad effects, and that is even worse whilst drinking at the same time.
Sixty doesn't sound so outrageous when you're starting with quarter bags. Doesn't sound like they're increasing the quantity all that much; just the quality. Also, youngsters want to smoke as much as possible. As people get older they learn to smoke until they get as high as they want and then lay off.

Doesn't sound like you still smoke every day. I'd say that calls your theory into question.

I suggest you peruse the gateway thread in GD.

I'm certain no one endorsing weed legalization in this thread would approve of driving under the influence of a mind-altering substance.

-J
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Offline j

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #253 on: January 17, 2014, 07:16:47 PM »
I'm certain no one endorsing weed legalization in this thread would approve of driving under the influence of a mind-altering substance.

-J


:rollin

I should have known!

-J

Offline jonnybaxy

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #254 on: January 17, 2014, 08:27:09 PM »
No, I don't really smoke pot on a regular occurrence, I got my fill of that 2 years ago, don't get me wrong I don't mind the occasional night with my mates but I see it as 'what's the point if you're doing every night?' just makes it less, shall we say exciting? Enjoyable?'

And it's not quality they're increasing, it's quantity. Not that big of a range in quality when you have to get it off some strange backstrest guy.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #255 on: January 17, 2014, 11:19:14 PM »
No, I don't really smoke pot on a regular occurrence, I got my fill of that 2 years ago, don't get me wrong I don't mind the occasional night with my mates but I see it as 'what's the point if you're doing every night?' just makes it less, shall we say exciting? Enjoyable?'
I agree completely, which is why I'll occasionally just quit smoking for a while. Much more entertaining when it's still new and fresh. That wasn't my point, though. You're blaming pot for turning your friends into potheads. I'm blaming your friends for being potheads, and the fact that you're able to smoke occasionally, socially should be an indicator to you that's the case.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #256 on: January 18, 2014, 03:55:09 AM »
I wouldn't endorse smoking and driving, but I saw a test on a MJ doc on TV that showed people stoned are pretty safe drivers due to them being extra cautious.

Offline Chino

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #257 on: January 18, 2014, 07:36:41 AM »
When is the last time you've ever read about someone killing another person with their motor vehicle because they were driving stoned?

Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #258 on: January 18, 2014, 09:31:48 AM »
When is the last time you've ever read about someone killing another person with their motor vehicle because they were driving stoned?
It's happened. The issue is really a matter of distraction, and with that being the case it happens far less than other forms of distraction-related carnage. Train operators have also had their fair share or misfortune, but that's actually pretty understandable. Sitting at the front of a train is the exact sort of job that just cries out for burning one. The problem there is that they're starting to treat more and more of the train accidents as a form of highway hypnosis, and I'd probably lump being stoned in as at most a minor contributor rather than a cause.

As to the studies that Cramx referred to, they all say precisely the same thing. Stoned drivers are slightly worse at maintaining accurate control over their vehicles, but they way overcompensate for it. Paranoia of cops also assists in that regard. The results do say that they show signs of impairment, and therefore couldn't be considered as good as regular drivers, however 90% of the people on the road aren't as good as regular drivers since they're dealing with day to day driving distractions. If you're going to use perfection as the baseline, nobody on the road is going to be considered unimpaired, honestly.

And to be fair, I'm a terrible driver when stoned. However, I my abilities increase with aggression when driving. The more maniacal I drive the more attentive and defensive I am, and doing something that causes me to be uber-relaxed and docile causes me to far too passive. That's why I generally try to avoid driving high at all costs. Besides which, I'd rather just be a passenger and enjoy the ride.
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Offline jonnybaxy

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #259 on: January 18, 2014, 10:07:27 AM »
No, I don't really smoke pot on a regular occurrence, I got my fill of that 2 years ago, don't get me wrong I don't mind the occasional night with my mates but I see it as 'what's the point if you're doing every night?' just makes it less, shall we say exciting? Enjoyable?'
I agree completely, which is why I'll occasionally just quit smoking for a while. Much more entertaining when it's still new and fresh. That wasn't my point, though. You're blaming pot for turning your friends into potheads. I'm blaming your friends for being potheads, and the fact that you're able to smoke occasionally, socially should be an indicator to you that's the case.

That's a true point, but how do you enforce laws to stop people being like that?

Age? What if people under the age are caught?
Amount? What if people have more than allowed?

Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #260 on: January 18, 2014, 10:25:50 AM »
That's a true point, but how do you enforce laws to stop people being like that?
You don't. Laws to dictate who or what people should be are wrong. Somebody wants to be an asshole? Not mine or The Man's place to stop him.

Quote
Age? What if people under the age are caught?
If it's against the law, punish them (within reason, of course). Honestly, though, it should really be more of a parental matter.

Quote
Amount? What if people have more than allowed?
Not sure why there should be an amount more than allowed. If it's to deter black market selling, then the law should be crafted towards that end. Frankly, due to the massive amount of corruption in anti-drug law enforcement, cops are way too eager to find ways to bump possession up to distribution. If I want to grow a pound all at once so I don't have to keep farming for the next year, that shouldn't make me a dope peddler.
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #261 on: January 18, 2014, 12:46:49 PM »

That's a true point, but how do you enforce laws to stop people being like that?

Age? What if people under the age are caught?
Amount? What if people have more than allowed?

Laws that try to enforce such things don't work, they fail, cause more problems and cost more money. If you're worried about addiction and overuse, then you should support, at the very least, decriminalization and the funding of treatment programs.

More often then not, overuse is the symptom of other problems, anyways. Depression is huge. What sense does it make to take someone who is depressed, and trying to medicate themselves, and ruin their lives? That's only going to fuel depression and addiction.

Really, the argment for legalization and decriminalization can rest on nothing more than the above. It can have nothing to do with the drug, it's benefits, it's negatives, etc. All you have to do is look at the practical and pragmatic effects of laws. It's like pro-lifers who want to give a fertlized egg-personhood or make abortion illegal. It's counter-productive, and it doesn't have the desired effect.


Offline cramx3

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #262 on: January 18, 2014, 05:07:38 PM »
Yea I don't get why there is a law on how much you can have. Its known that you can't overdose so I don't see the point. Unless you are out of state then I get it because they wouldn't want people taking it home where its illegal.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #263 on: January 22, 2014, 12:56:09 PM »
Yea I don't get why there is a law on how much you can have.


It's an effort to curb black-market sales.  Plain and simple.






Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #264 on: January 22, 2014, 01:14:01 PM »
The assumption is that there's only so much a person might have for their own personal use. Any pothead could be found with an oz or two. You have 2 lbs in the trunk and it's a safe bet you're dealing.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #265 on: January 22, 2014, 01:23:09 PM »
yep

Offline cramx3

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #266 on: January 22, 2014, 01:43:30 PM »
Other than out of state people, why would you be dealing when its legal to buy it in a store? There's no limit on alcohol and you can overdose on that. Also I guess a point can be made that someone could deal to people underage but then id compare that to alcohol again.

Also, surprised no one commented about what Obama said about MJ.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #267 on: January 22, 2014, 01:52:38 PM »
Other than out of state people, why would you be dealing when its legal to buy it in a store? There's no limit on alcohol and you can overdose on that. Also I guess a point can be made that someone could deal to people underage but then id compare that to alcohol again.

Also, surprised no one commented about what Obama said about MJ.
Because (as they're finding out in Colorado) the prices for legal bud are artificially high due to taxes, fees, licensing, etc. An entrepreneurial sort could grow a small amount of very good bud and sell it to the neighborhood for far less than they'll pay at the local head shop. Hell, it's probably still cheaper to bring dirtweed up from Mexico and sell it in Colorado for a nice profit.

Don't know if they've changed the rules yet, but it used to be that I could drive up North to Oklahoma, buy 20 cartons of tax free smokes from the Red Man and sell them to my friends for a tidy profit, since 66% of the price you pay at the 7-11 is tax. That's why they put tax stamps in the bottom of cigarette packages.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #268 on: January 22, 2014, 03:30:53 PM »
Your response has nothing to do with buying in bulk being illegal since growing your own and selling it is completely different than buying a large amount and selling it and to the point as you say its expensive so there is no money to be made doing that.

Also, for the prices, I read the prices spiked because of demand vs. supply, but the prices should go back down once the supply meets the demand.  However, I am not familiar with the prices so I can't say my opinion on it being expensive or not.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #269 on: January 22, 2014, 04:00:29 PM »
I wasn't aware you were referring to strictly buying in bulk. In fact, now I'm not sure what we're discussing at all.  :lol The initial question was why there's a limit to how much you can have. We answered it's to deter black market dealers. You asked why there would be dealers if it's legal. I explained that it's because of basic free market principles of buy low, sell high. Where was the disconnect?

As for pricing, I agree that the prices will normalize. That said, they'll only normalize to a point, and the taxes and fees will still be on top of that. What I can tell you is that down here in our notoriously drug unfriendly state, we're paying less than they are for legal bud. The difference is dramatic, in fact. Honestly, I don't think legal operations are ever going to compete with the low cost guys. The Mexicans have grass distribution down to a science. Their product is inferior, but their prices are well below what any legitimate operator can compete with (for the time being, at least).
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #270 on: January 22, 2014, 04:05:19 PM »
Maybe using the work bulk was wrong, I meant just more than whatever the legal limit is.  Why cant someone buy a pound of weed for personal use?  We talked about the black market, but your examples were of people growing it for cheap and selling for profit which definitely sounds like lit would make sense and money.  That wasn't my initial question though.  Why is there a limit to how much cultivated marijuana someone can buy?  It doesn't sound like a profitable business to buy it legally and then sell it (unless out of state, which from what you say, doesn't seem profitable either).

Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #271 on: January 22, 2014, 04:12:59 PM »
That makes more sense, and I suppose you're probably right about the interstate market. However, like I said, it's still much cheaper here in Texas than it is in Colorado, even for the connoisseur grade stuff. Part of that is going to be our proximity to Mexico, which creates a market for cheap bud, which keeps the price of high grade bud in check. I suppose it might well be profitable to buy in Co and sell in Utah, but then you introduce extreme risk and high breakage costs. I suppose part of the answer to your question is that they just don't know what's going to happen yet. The upper limits are definitely to deter underground dealers, but the mechanics are still up in the air, I suspect.

BTW, nobody buys more smoke than they'll consume in a month. It dries out and tastes bad. If you've got a pound on you, it's not for personal use unless you're smoking a half per day, and that'd scare Tommy Chong.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #272 on: January 22, 2014, 04:41:07 PM »
Trust me, I understand, I was just making a point as to why is there a limit with my main point being you cant overdose so why limit people meanwhile you can overdose on alcohol and there isn't a limit.

Offline Laich21DT

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #273 on: January 24, 2014, 12:11:06 PM »
When is the last time you've ever read about someone killing another person with their motor vehicle because they were driving stoned?

Dude... https://youtu.be/EdqspoqhW_8
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #274 on: January 24, 2014, 01:17:00 PM »
When is the last time you've ever read about someone killing another person with their motor vehicle because they were driving stoned?

Dude... https://youtu.be/EdqspoqhW_8
That's fake. Everybody knows they'd have cooked the kid in the microwave to make a California Cheeseburger.

Moreover, at least twenty regular posters on this forum have tried to get a car to smog up like that, and it just won't happen.
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Offline Laich21DT

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #275 on: January 24, 2014, 01:33:27 PM »
 :lol Twenty together, or separate?
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #276 on: January 24, 2014, 03:37:35 PM »
So I hear Holder is prepping more written notes for banks to be allowed to handle the banking for pot stores in Colorado.  As of now, the stores have tons of cash that they cant deposit anywhere because banks don't want to be caught "laundering money".  While its not going to be a law, its a step in the right direction.

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #277 on: January 28, 2014, 08:50:30 AM »
hmm, I hadn't even considered that angle.   :\   

Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #278 on: January 28, 2014, 09:00:16 AM »
Yeah, he'd been going after banks in Cali pretty hard threatening them with money laundering charges. He'd also been going after landlords threatening to seize their properties for allowing them to be used as dope houses. While this seems like an improvement, it remains to be seen how it'll play out, and obviously I have little faith in these people. Honestly, I suspect that it'll just be used to reinforce some federal government control. Only dealers they like get to use banks; that sort of thing. Ironic that weeding out corruption in the drug trade seems to be a chief focus, yet their plan is to institute a policy that has such high potential for corruption it boggles the mind.
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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #279 on: January 28, 2014, 10:31:18 AM »
Yea since its not law and more guidelines, I don't see it as a solution, but IMO the more we move closer to allowing it, the closer we are getting to making it legal and regulated like a normal product.