Author Topic: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use  (Read 80833 times)

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Offline Kattelox

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1435 on: November 19, 2019, 02:31:28 PM »
Something something "true freedom is chaos," "Man needs boundaries" blah blah.  :hat
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1436 on: November 20, 2019, 10:41:08 AM »
This is a group reply to Adami, Katt and Cram...

Respectfully, we're looking at this from slightly different angles.  You are - for better or worse, no judgment - looking at this from the subject matter perspective.  "Anti-racist", "pro-weed", whatever, and all points I agree with.  Certainly I am not condoning laws that are unfounded from a scientific perspective, or that can be proven to be racist (absent any other compelling benefit to society; "affirmative action" laws are clearly racist, but there's a compelling argument for them even if I don't personally agree with it). 

When I look at the process, though, it's content neutral.  There's a process for a reason, and part of that reason is that it SHOULDN'T be easy to sway things one way or another on a whim or a feeling (this is also why a certain amount of gridlock is desirable, no, necessary).   We can't just say "that's racist" and that law goes away.   There are very few laws that have been passed because they "feel good" or "sound good" that have proven to be effective, in and of themselves, in the long term.   

If there's a law in place - forget for a second WHAT the law is, or how it got there, assuming it was voted on legitimately - then burden of proof is on the party that wants to UNDO the law.   I'm sorry if that offends your sensibilities, but it's the only way the process is fair for all, and withstands the scrutiny.  Because what happens if you don't do this, we're starting to see the early stages of that now.  Look at the police thread. You don't think that SOME of the antipathy of the people to the police isn't because the process isn't being followed with respect to police officers? There's good reason for that, according to some, but those "good reasons" have inadvertently created an unequal playing field.   

It's ironic, because I haven't really seen the racist argument being made all that often with respect to marijuana laws.  At least here in Connecticut - a very liberal state with deep financial issues that has, oddly, not embraced the legalization movement with even half-open arms - I've actually never heard that argument even once in favor of legalizing.  And that argument WOULD have traction here (go find former Gov. Dannell "I have national political aspirations" Malloy's final state of the state address, entitled "Connecticut Fairness", which was basically a litany of welfare and identity politics programs).   Nonetheless, and rightfully so, without appropriate judicial scrutiny and a constitutional basis, laws don't just get "erased" because there were racist components to their original passing. 

Offline Kattelox

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1437 on: November 20, 2019, 10:48:11 AM »
Many states have already decriminalized and/or legalized marijuana and yet it remains a schedule 1 substance. How can we offer 'proof' to undo the law when the substance isn't even logically classified at the federal level which makes researching it more difficult than if it weren't? Marijuana is a great example of society pushing back against an unfairly implemented law that has disproportionately affected people of color over the decades and has shown to be less harmful than both tobacco and alcohol. While I agree we need to respect the process, we have seen society move forward and accept marijuana, largely, whereas our federal government still has it classified as one of the most dangerous substances around, which also makes researching it more difficult. Marijuana was made illegal unfairly, without scientific evidence to support the claims against it, and it was made illegal in no small part to go after hippies and people of color. No, we don't just 'erase' laws. But the way this country legally treats marijuana - and so many other things - are so outdated and draconian.

No offense, Stadler, at all - but I've heard the racial side of this argument a lot over the years. You tend to listen a lot when you're 1) a stoner and 2) hang out with a lot of black and latinx people who smoke just as much as the white guy. It's a very real thing.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 10:57:18 AM by Kattelox »
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1438 on: November 20, 2019, 11:04:04 AM »
It's ironic, because I haven't really seen the racist argument being made all that often with respect to marijuana laws.

It's brought up in almost every article I read on the subject and usually brought up by any politician who supports legalization.  Not always about the racist way it became illegal but by the way the stats show minorities are more likely to be jailed for marijuana than whites.  I think there's more than "race" when it comes to legalization, but it's definitely an element that's heavily in the discussion.  Usually not by me, but politicians for sure.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1439 on: November 20, 2019, 11:06:50 AM »
We can "just say 'that's racist'" and expect our elected officials to do something about it, though. That's why they're there. When people keep saying "that's bogus" for whatever reasons they give, and Biden's response is "well, let's wait and see," they're right to call him out for it.

And the racism thing isn't really state specific. It goes back to the very reason it was deemed evil way back when. That's why Reefer Madness set the tone for all marijuana legislation in the first place. No, the current state laws aren't racist, at least as far as I know, but their origins are a very racist assumption from back in the day.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1440 on: November 20, 2019, 02:33:42 PM »
Yeah, as far as the "racism" of marijuana laws, I'm talking about the racist origins of the original criminalization.   I think there's even some evidence that the Nixon Administration explicitly laid out a program that in today's vernacular (I mean that legally) would be deemed racist. 

As for the "unfairly targeting", I don't necessarily buy into the math that says that "whites and blacks use at similar rates, and whites are imprisoned less than blacks" (which is, in a nutshell, the argument) automatically means the LAWS are racist.  SOMETHING might - or might not - be but it doesn't obviously point at the laws for me.   There are too many other links in the chain to draw that conclusion.

As for the research, I'm not necessarily saying we need to medically test it - and I can't speak to whether Biden means that, who the f*** knows about him - but it might be enough to do as Bart says, and have the research be a committee hearing on the initial acceptance of the 1970 (I think it was) Schedule addition.   Just SOMETHING defensible, so that the next time someone gets a bright idea to put kids in cages at the border, or completely bollox up our healthcare - ideas that very much CAN be researched - they can't use "well, 70% of the people agree with this" or "it's racist!" and that's that. 

We're not really that far apart here, I don't think. 

Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1441 on: November 20, 2019, 03:08:15 PM »
Yeah, as far as the "racism" of marijuana laws, I'm talking about the racist origins of the original criminalization.   I think there's even some evidence that the Nixon Administration explicitly laid out a program that in today's vernacular (I mean that legally) would be deemed racist. 

As for the "unfairly targeting", I don't necessarily buy into the math that says that "whites and blacks use at similar rates, and whites are imprisoned less than blacks" (which is, in a nutshell, the argument) automatically means the LAWS are racist.  SOMETHING might - or might not - be but it doesn't obviously point at the laws for me.   There are too many other links in the chain to draw that conclusion.

As for the research, I'm not necessarily saying we need to medically test it - and I can't speak to whether Biden means that, who the f*** knows about him - but it might be enough to do as Bart says, and have the research be a committee hearing on the initial acceptance of the 1970 (I think it was) Schedule addition.   Just SOMETHING defensible, so that the next time someone gets a bright idea to put kids in cages at the border, or completely bollox up our healthcare - ideas that very much CAN be researched - they can't use "well, 70% of the people agree with this" or "it's racist!" and that's that. 

We're not really that far apart here, I don't think.
It goes back long before Nixon. People were smoking hemp for quite some time and it was no big deal. Somewhere in the 20s or 30s it came into the cross-hairs of politicians looking for things to ban. At that point the old white guys in congress created a moral panic suggesting that because of jazz and reefer wholesome white women were going to start getting their freak on with the coloreds,  and it became the public scourge it remains today.


In all fairness, it doesn't look like Louis's going home alone that night.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1442 on: November 20, 2019, 03:09:43 PM »
That one girls got her eye on the prize  :lol

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1443 on: November 20, 2019, 07:58:56 PM »
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/20/house-committee-approves-bill-decriminalizing-marijuana-on-the-federal-level.html

If I have it correct, next stop it goes for a vote in the house, and then a vote in the senate

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1444 on: December 12, 2019, 09:08:54 AM »
Looks like Psilocybin is picking up traction as a potential treatment option for depression. I'm excited to see what comes of this:


"FDA Calls Psychedelic Psilocybin a 'Breakthrough Therapy' for Severe Depression"

https://www.livescience.com/psilocybin-depression-breakthrough-therapy.html

and

"The FDA is fast-tracking a second psilocybin drug to treat depression"

https://www.popsci.com/story/health/psilocybin-magic-mushroom-fda-breakthrough-depression/

Offline Chino

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1445 on: December 12, 2019, 09:24:05 AM »
Every culture in the history of existence wouldn't have found ways to hallucinate if it didn't help cope with life in some way, shape, or form.

It makes sense.

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1446 on: December 12, 2019, 09:25:55 AM »
Severe depression? Maybe.

Normal depression? Eh. I am not a fan of meds to treat things like depression or anxiety unless it's A) Intentionally short term or B) The depression or anxiety is extremely severe or caused by a purely biological function.

But I know I'm in the minority, even as a professional, as drugs are where the money is and therefore presented as the best possible course of treatment for anything.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1447 on: December 12, 2019, 09:32:32 AM »
Some of us have been saying that for years.

More importantly, plenty of other civilized countries have done the research and have been utilizing it for mental health purposes for quite some time. I know that end of life patients in Scandinavia have been tripping to ease anxiety and it's quite effective. They've already done the homework on using it as an anti-depressant as the benefits have been well known since Huxley.

Here's what's interesting to me. Marijuana has gained a lot of traction in part because the medicinal components can theoretically be separated from the get-highs. I'm not really sold on the whole CBD thing, but time will tell, I suppose. This is important because alcohol is the only Jesus-approved method of getting wasted, so the "getting high" part of it is still highly problematic with a big chunk of the population. Thankfully, this is changing, but it's still an issue. Shrooms are going to be a very different thing, though, as it's the tripping part that is the benefit. It's not the psilocybin or the psilocin that have medicinal value. It's the experience you have after a massive cascade of serotonin is set off.


edit: That last part is particularly relevant to you, Adami. Rather than looking at it as a pharmacological treatment you should be looking at it as an experiential treatment. People who fry on various substances tend to have a real change in the way the see the world. While the verdict is still out on microdosing, I suspect that what we're talking about is having people trip once or twice to provide a different take on things and that's that. It wouldn't be a continual process, although the talking side of things that you endorse still would be. I suspect people such as yourself would see it as a single-use tool to augment what it is that you do. 
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Online Adami

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1448 on: December 12, 2019, 09:38:27 AM »
As someone who's never done drugs, I can't speak to how valuable a good trip is, but I've heard from enough people that it's basically 50/50.

And I seriously doubt any of this will be pushed as a single-use tool. The business of America is business, not helping people. They push drugs that are used as much as possible because that's how the money is made.

You think any pharma CEOs are going to make a nice chunk of change off a single-use medication? Especially when you can just as easily make it a regular thing?
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1449 on: December 12, 2019, 09:45:37 AM »
And I seriously doubt any of this will be pushed as a single-use tool. The business of America is business, not helping people. They push drugs that are used as much as possible because that's how the money is made.

You think any pharma CEOs are going to make a nice chunk of change off a single-use medication? Especially when you can just as easily make it a regular thing?
I agree, and I suspect they're going to be pushing microdosing. At the same time I suspect there could also be a viable market for people who want to go the experiential route. Create safe, pleasant environments where they bill your insurance $42,000 for you to go and trip balls for a few hours. I can see this as far more beneficial.

Quote
As someone who's never done drugs, I can't speak to how valuable a good trip is, but I've heard from enough people that it's basically 50/50.
Can you elaborate on that?
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Online Adami

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1450 on: December 12, 2019, 10:34:03 AM »
I just mean the stories I have heard, some are great, some are truly awful and disturbing. Seems a bit unpredictable. That's all.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1451 on: December 12, 2019, 10:38:36 AM »
I just mean the stories I have heard, some are great, some are truly awful and disturbing. Seems a bit unpredictable. That's all.
Set and setting, man.
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Offline Kattelox

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1452 on: December 12, 2019, 10:42:12 AM »
Set and setting, indeed. Makes all the difference. That includes who you're tripping with, if you're tripping with anyone at all.

I will say that the good trips I've had have quite literally been some of the best times of my life, but the bad trips have easily been some of the worst times of my life. It's a double edged sword, but I can't stress enough how amazing a good trip really is. It's just the bee's knees. The aural and visual effects combined with the psychedelic feeling and ego death is just wild
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1453 on: December 12, 2019, 10:44:15 AM »
100% set and setting

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1454 on: December 12, 2019, 10:44:59 AM »
I just mean the stories I have heard, some are great, some are truly awful and disturbing. Seems a bit unpredictable. That's all.
Set and setting, man.

Totally cool. Like I said, I'm in the minority. If people want to go trip and have a great experience, more power to them. My issue is when that becomes the prescribed form of therapy, you know? Can it be a specific tool used among other tools by some therapists? Sure, why not. But meds have become THE go to. People are on meds who have no interest in therapy or actually doing any work, just want to not feel things. I would just hate for this to be another thing people do instead of legit therapeutic work. But if that's what people want, people will do it.

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Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1455 on: December 12, 2019, 10:50:56 AM »
I just mean the stories I have heard, some are great, some are truly awful and disturbing. Seems a bit unpredictable. That's all.
Set and setting, man.

Totally cool. Like I said, I'm in the minority. If people want to go trip and have a great experience, more power to them. My issue is when that becomes the prescribed form of therapy, you know? Can it be a specific tool used among other tools by some therapists? Sure, why not. But meds have become THE go to. People are on meds who have no interest in therapy or actually doing any work, just want to not feel things. I would just hate for this to be another thing people do instead of legit therapeutic work. But if that's what people want, people will do it.
I totally get that, and I think you're right. I think they're going to take it in the wrong direction in a way that will be both unhelpful and stupidly expensive. I'm merely suggesting that America's tendency to fuck good things up isn't a very good reason to discount a helpful form of therapy.
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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1456 on: December 12, 2019, 10:52:54 AM »
I can see it being helpful.

I can't see it being used in a helpful way.

That make sense?


In therapy, people tend to mistake feeling good with make progress, and I feel like this will add to that misconception. But such is life. The mental health field is already SO messed up that this couldn't really make it much worse either way.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1457 on: December 12, 2019, 11:09:01 AM »
I can see it being helpful.

I can't see it being used in a helpful way.

That make sense?
Absolutely.

Quote
In therapy, people tend to mistake feeling good with make progress, and I feel like this will add to that misconception. But such is life. The mental health field is already SO messed up that this couldn't really make it much worse either way.
I can certainly see that. I think you might be misunderstimating the practical long term effect of a good trip, though. It's not about feeling good at the time. Or even feeling good indefinitely. It's about changing the way you see things. Gaining a new understanding. This isn't merely feeling good. It's gaining the ability to feel good. Or losing the basis for feeling bad. Does that make sense?
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1458 on: December 12, 2019, 11:38:48 AM »
Severe depression? Maybe.

Normal depression? Eh. I am not a fan of meds to treat things like depression or anxiety unless it's A) Intentionally short term or B) The depression or anxiety is extremely severe or caused by a purely biological function.

But I know I'm in the minority, even as a professional, as drugs are where the money is and therefore presented as the best possible course of treatment for anything.

I agree with you, I would rather do anything before having to take pharmaceuticals. But that includes natural remedies too.  Such as I'd rather take a cherry tart extact for my gout than take a medication to keep my uric acid levels low in my blood.  I'd think psilocybin is a more natural remedy.  I know little about it, but if it works and is safe, I feel like that may be the better route than going on some pills that likely have side effects.

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1459 on: December 12, 2019, 11:39:21 AM »
In therapy, people tend to mistake feeling good with make progress

Now it's my turn; care to elaborate?   I'm a very, very big advocate of therapy, and have been for years.  But if you're successfully being kind to yourself, being authentic, and being mindful, isn't one of the signs that you "feel good" (however we agree that is to be defined)?

For Bart and Katt, do you have memory of your trips? I mean cognitive, meaningful memory, not the "I think I partied last night" fog after a night of Tito's. 

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1460 on: December 12, 2019, 11:39:55 AM »
Severe depression? Maybe.

Normal depression? Eh. I am not a fan of meds to treat things like depression or anxiety unless it's A) Intentionally short term or B) The depression or anxiety is extremely severe or caused by a purely biological function.

But I know I'm in the minority, even as a professional, as drugs are where the money is and therefore presented as the best possible course of treatment for anything.

I agree with you, I would rather do anything before having to take pharmaceuticals. But that includes natural remedies too.  Such as I'd rather take a cherry tart extact for my gout than take a medication to keep my uric acid levels low in my blood.  I'd think psilocybin is a more natural remedy.  I know little about it, but if it works and is safe, I feel like that may be the better route than going on some pills that likely have side effects.

We share that.

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1461 on: December 12, 2019, 11:56:48 AM »
In therapy, people tend to mistake feeling good with make progress

Now it's my turn; care to elaborate?   I'm a very, very big advocate of therapy, and have been for years.  But if you're successfully being kind to yourself, being authentic, and being mindful, isn't one of the signs that you "feel good" (however we agree that is to be defined)?

For Bart and Katt, do you have memory of your trips? I mean cognitive, meaningful memory, not the "I think I partied last night" fog after a night of Tito's.

Totally. I don't mean to say that therapy is all about feeling bad. It's hard to be exact because it's such a detailed idea with specific things that relate to specific individuals that any summary will lose that nuance.

What I mean to say is, people often see therapists that make them feel good every session but don't do any actual work. They just make them feel nice and send them on their way. It's like giving someone with a major wound some pain meds and sending them home. Are they happy to have pain meds? You betcha, but that wound ain't gonna heal itself.

I kind of liken most therapy* to physical therapy. If you leave every session of physical therapy pain free and feeling on cloud 9, then you're not doing any real work.

I also have an issue with mental health getting lumped into medical health. Yes, there brain is there as the physical part of all of this, but there's been the increasing narrative that all mental health problems are solely physical issues that can be dealt with with meds, and I strongly disagree**


* I say most because some people really just have some quick basic things that don't necessarily require deep intense difficult work.

** Obviously there are a number of mental health issues that are physical, but I am not comfortable saying all of them are. When your dad beats you, it'll impact your serotonin levels. Taking an SSRI isn't going to deal with what your dad did, it'll just make it easier not to feel that. But like I said, that's the direction we've gone. Therapy has become about symptom management and making sure people can go back out and work again.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1462 on: December 12, 2019, 12:14:35 PM »
In therapy, people tend to mistake feeling good with make progress

Now it's my turn; care to elaborate?   I'm a very, very big advocate of therapy, and have been for years.  But if you're successfully being kind to yourself, being authentic, and being mindful, isn't one of the signs that you "feel good" (however we agree that is to be defined)?

For Bart and Katt, do you have memory of your trips? I mean cognitive, meaningful memory, not the "I think I partied last night" fog after a night of Tito's.

Totally. I don't mean to say that therapy is all about feeling bad. It's hard to be exact because it's such a detailed idea with specific things that relate to specific individuals that any summary will lose that nuance.

What I mean to say is, people often see therapists that make them feel good every session but don't do any actual work. They just make them feel nice and send them on their way. It's like giving someone with a major wound some pain meds and sending them home. Are they happy to have pain meds? You betcha, but that wound ain't gonna heal itself.

I kind of liken most therapy* to physical therapy. If you leave every session of physical therapy pain free and feeling on cloud 9, then you're not doing any real work.

I also have an issue with mental health getting lumped into medical health. Yes, there brain is there as the physical part of all of this, but there's been the increasing narrative that all mental health problems are solely physical issues that can be dealt with with meds, and I strongly disagree**


* I say most because some people really just have some quick basic things that don't necessarily require deep intense difficult work.

** Obviously there are a number of mental health issues that are physical, but I am not comfortable saying all of them are. When your dad beats you, it'll impact your serotonin levels. Taking an SSRI isn't going to deal with what your dad did, it'll just make it easier not to feel that. But like I said, that's the direction we've gone. Therapy has become about symptom management and making sure people can go back out and work again.

Got it; that spoke volumes to me.   You're closer, and obviously more invested, but I happen to agree with you almost entirely.  I do think there was SOME benefit to bringing mental health issues more into context with medical health, in order to remove the stigma from traditional mental health issues, but no, not everything is one pill away from being solved.   Tell me about it.  :)

Offline El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1463 on: December 12, 2019, 12:48:26 PM »

For Bart and Katt, do you have memory of your trips? I mean cognitive, meaningful memory, not the "I think I partied last night" fog after a night of Tito's.
Certainly. I'm kind of a purist, so if I'm going to fry I don't smoke or drink. A consequence is that my memory isn't impaired. That said, I've never had one of those eye-opening experiences where I communed with the fractal aliens who explained the intricacies of the cosmos to me. I can tell you what I did and how things seemed, often times in amazing detail, but none of it is particularly helpful.

I will say that I've forgotten very specific details here and there, only to remember them years later and have my mind completely blown. I consider that one of the really cool aspects of it. One day at work I randomly thought of something that I'd completely erased from my memory. I started calling people up "holy shit, do you remember when. . .!" It's a pretty cool sensation, as if magically unlocking some new life experience that should have been with you all along.

Something similar happens with random musical cues that might get lodged in my brain for no particular reason at all. For a couple of years the chorus of The Enemy Within (Part I of Fear) would stop me dead in my tracks the first time it came up in the song. Nothing unpleasant at all, but more of a "whoa" as it took me right back to that night. It was awesome.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1464 on: December 12, 2019, 07:40:30 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/12/sport/mlb-changes-drug-program/index.html

This can't be a bad thing (that's not sarcasm).

Offline TAC

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1465 on: December 12, 2019, 08:06:45 PM »
Yeah, and I hear that when the tester shows up in Houston for an unannounced round of tests, someone bangs the shit out of a trash can right before he enters the clubhouse.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Kattelox

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1466 on: December 12, 2019, 08:48:19 PM »
For Bart and Katt, do you have memory of your trips? I mean cognitive, meaningful memory, not the "I think I partied last night" fog after a night of Tito's.

I have vivid, detailed memories of most of my trips, the good and the bad. I could still detail most of them in their entirety, what I did, saw, what it felt like etc. I still think about those experiences passively often because the trips were so profound. With the way everything feels and looks and sounds it's really hard to forget.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1467 on: December 13, 2019, 06:52:33 AM »
I've tripped twice. Once on shrooms and once on LSD. I remember them both with clarity. They were a blast.

Offline Podaar

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1468 on: December 13, 2019, 07:24:57 AM »
I've tripped twice a bunch. Once Three times on shrooms and once dozens of times on LSD. I remember them both all with clarity. They All but one were a blast.

FFM

Offline Harmony

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1469 on: December 13, 2019, 06:32:38 PM »
I've dropped acid a few times - before marriage/kids - the first time was the most memorable as one of the best parts was watching the Woodstock documentary.  That said, I'm ready to come down after a few hours and that's what I disliked most about it.  I much preferred my shroom experiences.

I absolutely loathe both speed-type drugs and opiates (unless post surgical and even then, not so much).  I hate the jitters of amphetamines.  Never got the appeal.  Even cocaine, while I could see the allure, to me the best part about it was actually snorting it.  After that it's just grinding teeth and feeling like my insides are about to explode out of my torso while listening to other people talking really fast.  No thanks.

As for using hallucinogenics to treat mental illness - I'm no expert but I've heard of people having their first psychotic breaks while using that eventually lead to full on schizophrenia or other similar disorders.  Now I get it...chicken or egg?  But is that a risk a licensed professional would be willing to take in prescribing it?  Everyone has different brain chemistry.  You can't tell by looking at someone how they will react to any drug.  It sounds like a crapshoot at best to me.