Author Topic: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use  (Read 72633 times)

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Offline portnoy311

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1190 on: May 08, 2019, 12:34:20 PM »
Well this is interesting.


https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/politics/polis-likely-to-sign-bill-defelonizing-single-use-drug-possession-for-schedule-i-and-ii-substances


Polis is a progressive so I'd be shocked if he doesn't sign it. It's not decriminalization but seems to be a right step.

I lost a friend 3 years ago, where he refused to get the help he needed due to fear of prison, and ended up dying from it.

In my mind it's a different situation than declassifying weed, shrooms and LSD which just shouldn't be illegal. This step is the only way to help people and not writing them off as 'lost,' and works beautifully in other countries.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 12:46:01 PM by portnoy311 »

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1191 on: May 08, 2019, 01:02:47 PM »
Legit question:  how does this help people get help?   What it does seem to do is to not ruin your life if you get caught with a single-use possession, but how does it help get people out of the cycle of addiction?  If you go get help, you can't be arrested for being an addict.

Offline portnoy311

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1192 on: May 08, 2019, 01:08:15 PM »
Legit question:  how does this help people get help?   What it does seem to do is to not ruin your life if you get caught with a single-use possession, but how does it help get people out of the cycle of addiction?  If you go get help, you can't be arrested for being an addict.

My buddy had drugs in his apartment that were unrelated to whatever he was whacked out on, and wouldn't be covered by good Samaritan laws if he reported himself ODing. At least that's my (/his) understanding.

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1193 on: May 08, 2019, 01:19:47 PM »
I don't know the laws well enough, but it's always been my understanding that if you are trying to get better, the cops aren't going to bust your balls.  But I guess, if you are trying but have a relapse maybe you risk getting in legal trouble.  Anyway, defelonizing first time drug users seems good to me, I really don't understand why the law can be harsh on drug users, dealers I understand but a personal user just seems like not worth making a felon. 

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1194 on: May 08, 2019, 01:23:46 PM »
Honest question; is that what you're calling "moral", that is, "independent of any objective harm or danger"?  I often struggle with the "logic" of our drug laws. I don't (necessarily) accept the assumption that the "drug war" is also a race war.   I think it might have undertones of a class war.   I think it's got a larger component of corporate war (you're seeing that a little now, as weed legalization gets traction only when there's revenue to be had).
Well, I think there's danger in everything we do. I'm saying moral along the same lines as the eighteenth amendment. "We don't think it's right so neither should you." I really think that's the primary motivator. Good ole community decency and values. Now, I do think objective harm is a small part of it. I say small because by and large we don't actually give a shit if people do harmful and dangerous stuff. Case in point, none of the drugs we talk about are going to be as harmful as alcohol, by a long shot.

It's also a problem because that objective harm and danger is based on false premises and preconceptions. We didn't decide to legalize marijuana because we suddenly realized there was beau coup dolleros to be made. We figured that part out from taxing the bejeezus out of smokes and firewater. We decided to legalize marijuana when we realized that the risks we've been hearing about for all of these years were bullshit. Thus making the cost benefit analysis weigh out far differently than it did 20 years ago. That's what's happening with shrooms. With experience people are learning that the After School Specials where people jump off of rooftops or microwave their infants might not be altogether accurate depictions.
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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1195 on: May 08, 2019, 01:30:10 PM »
I don't know the laws well enough, but it's always been my understanding that if you are trying to get better, the cops aren't going to bust your balls.  But I guess, if you are trying but have a relapse maybe you risk getting in legal trouble.  Anyway, defelonizing first time drug users seems good to me, I really don't understand why the law can be harsh on drug users, dealers I understand but a personal user just seems like not worth making a felon.
Cops a human beings. They stand a decent chance of being sympathetic to your plight and thus being helpful and supportive. There comes a time, however, where you stop being a person in need of help and become a number on a docket sheet. At that point you're at the will of a variety of people whose interests range from wanting to help to wanting to add to Wackenhut's cheap labor force.
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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1196 on: May 08, 2019, 01:46:08 PM »
We didn't decide to legalize marijuana because we suddenly realized there was beau coup dolleros to be made. ...  We decided to legalize marijuana when we realized that the risks we've been hearing about for all of these years were bullshit.

Do you really believe that? (I'm not being snarky or sarcastic; honest question).  Because I think you're right about this:

Quote
Thus making the cost benefit analysis weigh out far differently than it did 20 years ago.

I don't think the risk is a (major) part of it, but that the equation is different.  The revenue from putting these people through the system is less (and less painful) than the tax revenue from selling it.   I really do think it's that simple. 

The risks aren't "bullshit" - it's the second-most frequently found substance in victims of car accidents, and it can be, depending on how you interpret the statistics, considered a gateway drug, or at least indicative of a willingness to explore other illegal stimulants (https://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana/international-statistics.html) - it's that we decided the numbers add up.  I see why it's a logical comparison with alcohol, but it's not, really.   If I sit quietly at a restaurant and have a Tito's and soda, splash of ginger ale, no one need know except me and my server.  If I fire up a fatty, it's not the same.   The number of alcohol users in the past month is something like five times the number of weed users (I'm using 57% of Americans used alcohol in the past month (https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/alcohol-facts-and-statistics) versus 35 million people that used marijuana in the last month (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/04/19/11-charts-that-show-marijuana-has-truly-gone-mainstream/?utm_term=.44e951ab9ff1)).  All the bars, restaurants, and social places that lose revenue without alcohol; there isn't an analogue for weed (yet). 

I'm not arguing against legalization, but for it.  I don't think "harm" should be the argument.  I firmly believe that coke and heroin ought to ultimately be legal; controlled, but legal.   "Harm" isn't a winning argument for that.

Offline portnoy311

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1197 on: May 08, 2019, 02:09:39 PM »
But if you have 6 drinks you're more likely to be violent and make rash decisions. I know plenty of people who take a hit and go workout. Some who relax before bed. None of that applies to having a drink. Alcohol is much more destructive than weed.

Also, do the levels of people found with weed in their system mean they were high at that time or sometime in the past few weeks? If I'm stone sober and drive into a pole because I'm texting, does it matter that THC was in my system from 3 days earlier?


For most states I know of legalization happened via public vote. Changing the perception of weed was paramount to changing public opinion on its legality. Hell, psilocybin is about as innocuous as a drug can be, and it still has the stigma of DRUGS that weed has mostly shed.

I don't think it's a coincidence that weed is what was legalized, and how familiar the public has become with it and its safety. Everyone from Cheech Marin to Snoop to W and Obama to Joe Rogan to Elon Musk to Harrison Ford have made weed mainstream and people have become aware that the 'reefer madness' fear of previous generations just isn't true.

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1198 on: May 08, 2019, 02:26:37 PM »

Online El Barto

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1199 on: May 08, 2019, 03:03:43 PM »
We didn't decide to legalize marijuana because we suddenly realized there was beau coup dolleros to be made. ...  We decided to legalize marijuana when we realized that the risks we've been hearing about for all of these years were bullshit.

Do you really believe that? (I'm not being snarky or sarcastic; honest question).  Because I think you're right about this:

Quote
Thus making the cost benefit analysis weigh out far differently than it did 20 years ago.

I don't think the risk is a (major) part of it, but that the equation is different.  The revenue from putting these people through the system is less (and less painful) than the tax revenue from selling it.   I really do think it's that simple. 

The risks aren't "bullshit" - it's the second-most frequently found substance in victims of car accidents, and it can be, depending on how you interpret the statistics, considered a gateway drug, or at least indicative of a willingness to explore other illegal stimulants (https://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana/international-statistics.html) - it's that we decided the numbers add up.  I see why it's a logical comparison with alcohol, but it's not, really.   If I sit quietly at a restaurant and have a Tito's and soda, splash of ginger ale, no one need know except me and my server.  If I fire up a fatty, it's not the same.   The number of alcohol users in the past month is something like five times the number of weed users (I'm using 57% of Americans used alcohol in the past month (https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/alcohol-facts-and-statistics) versus 35 million people that used marijuana in the last month (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/04/19/11-charts-that-show-marijuana-has-truly-gone-mainstream/?utm_term=.44e951ab9ff1)).  All the bars, restaurants, and social places that lose revenue without alcohol; there isn't an analogue for weed (yet). 

I'm not arguing against legalization, but for it.  I don't think "harm" should be the argument.  I firmly believe that coke and heroin ought to ultimately be legal; controlled, but legal.   "Harm" isn't a winning argument for that.
I don't see the disconnect within my point. Yes, I believe that the risks have been demonstrated to be bullshit, and yes I believe that change came about when people realized that they were dodging a revenue source for invalid reasons. If you want to delve further into it, since you brought up the revenue of putting people into the system, I'd say a greater component would be that prosecutors do better now by acting justly, as opposed to the old days of tough on crime. In the 80s locking up dopers got you reelected. In the teens (???) they get reelected by being reasonable with such people.

As 311 said, the presence of THC in victims of car accidents means nothing. I've got THC in my fat cells from months ago, and even longer if they go the hair route (my beard would have some stories to tell). And honestly, if you want to look at meaningful statistics on driving and drug/alcohol use, don't look to the US. We do a shitty job of it, and we misrepresent the findings to promote an anti-drug/alcohol agenda. I've read the Aussie study on driving high* and I've read the cherry-picked findings the our agencies cite, and they're starkly crooked.


*The Cliff's version is that stoners at a certain point are somewhat impaired but adjust for it accordingly. They drive slower. They stop earlier. They're more observant. The point where the lines crossed and the stoned drivers were comparable to the .08 BAC control group was among the group that smoked four of those big monster joints like Elon's puffing on up there in a 45 minute stretch. In other words, nobody. 
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1200 on: May 08, 2019, 04:09:46 PM »
(my beard would have some stories to tell).

I am equally intrigued and terrified at the thought of hearing those stories.  :lol
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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1201 on: May 08, 2019, 07:27:46 PM »
It was close but it didn't pass

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/07/denver-votes-no-magic-mushrooms-historic-vote-psilocybin/1131741001/

46.5% in favor and 54.5% opposed

The ballot counters must have started tripping early. Hard to count when the numbers won't stop swirling around. 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/denver-decriminalize-magic-mushrooms
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1202 on: May 09, 2019, 05:36:25 AM »

The ballot counters must have started tripping early. Hard to count when the numbers won't stop swirling around. 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/denver-decriminalize-magic-mushrooms

Oh wow. Yeah, you're probably right  :lol

Thanks for the update

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1203 on: May 09, 2019, 10:39:43 AM »
Alcohol is much more destructive than weed.

AND

Quote
]
Everyone from Cheech Marin to Snoop to W and Obama to Joe Rogan to Elon Musk to Harrison Ford have made weed mainstream and people have become aware that the 'reefer madness' fear of previous generations just isn't true.

I think these are the kinds of statements that don't sit well.  The THC point is well taken (and I agree) but for every John Bonham or Bon Scott there's an Eddie Van Halen or Keith Richards, for every [my family member] there's a Seth Rogen or Les Claypool. 

I don't give a flying fuck what celebrities champion the weed; it's a meaningless data point (they also championed Hillary Clinton and Harvey Weinstein as well).  But while I agree that it shouldn't be STOPPED, it shouldn't be glossed over either.  People DO die from marijuana use, and if you've ever watched someone die of lung cancer or from complications of alcoholism, you'll understand where I'm coming from with this.  https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2018/05/31/drugged-driving-deaths-spike-with-spread-of-legal-marijuana-opioid-abuse; https://www.straight.com/cannabis/1097556/dana-larsen-canadian-press-story-claims-8851-annual-deaths-cannabis-use-truth

I don't know; maybe it's me.  I just feel like there's a lot of "we want this outcome, so whatever it takes, fuck it, we'll do it" attitude.  I can remember a couple times Seth Rogen was on Stern, and it was a big fucking joke to him.  Laughing and giggling about his "anxiety" and his "medical card".  I thought that medical marijuana was an edible that didn't make you high?   Wasn't that the big lecture, that the opposition "didn't understand what was being asked for?"?   Well what wasnt' understood? 

Again, for legalization. 100%.  What I'm looking at, though, is something along the lines of alcohol and tobacco, where people downplay the realities and people get careless and the landscape changes RADICALLY, and at great expense.   You (collective) can avoid that peril by being smart now.   

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1204 on: May 09, 2019, 11:13:35 AM »
Neither of those links support deaths from cannabis use. The first link is dead and the second seem to be refuting the first. I will chime in, though, that there is no link whatsoever between cannabis use and traffic accidents. Anti-drug sites cite studies demonstrating impairment, but disregard the all important tendency to compensate for that impairment. Moreover, you're not going to be able to reasonably study traffic accidents in relation to cannabis use unless you can actually link the two, which is surprisingly difficult. If there's a it joint in the hand of a traffic victim then you might be onto something. Might. Simply testing for the presence of drugs in the system, or finding a roach in the ashtray doesn't help you, and that's largely what we rely on.

As for the lung cancer aspect, prohibition forced people into the smoking of pot rolled in paper. It's debatable as to whether or not that actually caused any cancer. The evidence leaned towards does not. Legalization has made it a very simple thing for people to find better, presumably safer means. I bought a very nice bong online. I can easily find concentrates that aren't burned at all (they're vaporized at a temperature well below the burning point). Edibles are fucking huge right now. Those aren't causing lung cancer. The only real link I've found is a quite believable study that says if you follow up your dope smoking with a [quite enjoyable] cigarette you're greatly increasing the damage done.
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Offline portnoy311

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1205 on: May 09, 2019, 12:30:09 PM »
I feel you completely missed my point with the people I listed. They have helped remove the stigma from the public's views on marijuana. Weed is way more mainstream than 20 years ago. Interestingly enough, usage rates haven't changed (by some accounts have gone down), but in public discourse you're no longer branded a DRUGGIE if you talk about smoking weed.

EB handled the rest.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 12:40:47 PM by portnoy311 »

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1206 on: May 10, 2019, 07:41:28 AM »
No I got it; I just believe that here, in places like Connecticut, that information doesn't move the needle.  As I pointed out, I even think it hurt the process a little.  When you look at Bridgeport, North Hartford, and the like, the Joe Rogan's of the world aren't the ones leaving the impression, for better or worse. 

Again, not arguing with you, merely sharing my observations.   

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1207 on: May 15, 2019, 01:42:59 PM »


As 311 said, the presence of THC in victims of car accidents means nothing. I've got THC in my fat cells from months ago, and even longer if they go the hair route (my beard would have some stories to tell). And honestly, if you want to look at meaningful statistics on driving and drug/alcohol use, don't look to the US. We do a shitty job of it, and we misrepresent the findings to promote an anti-drug/alcohol agenda. I've read the Aussie study on driving high* and I've read the cherry-picked findings the our agencies cite, and they're starkly crooked.


*The Cliff's version is that stoners at a certain point are somewhat impaired but adjust for it accordingly. They drive slower. They stop earlier. They're more observant. The point where the lines crossed and the stoned drivers were comparable to the .08 BAC control group was among the group that smoked four of those big monster joints like Elon's puffing on up there in a 45 minute stretch. In other words, nobody.

Well said.

At this point, if someone drinks alcohol and thinks pot should be illegal, I cannot take their opinion on the matter seriously.  Alcohol is far more destructive than marijuana, as a whole (not just looking at drunk driving accidents, but when you consider addiction, the results of drinking heavily long term, etc.).  Prohibition obviously didn't work, so I am not advocating for alcohol to be banned again, but I wish some would use their heads when it comes to pot and its legality.  I also don't think the "all drugs should be legal" people help this cause, as it gets many lumping pot in the same category as crack and heroin.

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1208 on: May 15, 2019, 02:49:59 PM »
I also don't think the "all drugs should be legal" people help this cause, as it gets many lumping pot in the same category as crack and heroin.

I agree with this.  I am one who thinks, just legalize it all, regulate and deal with the aftermath as I don't think you are going to get people to just start shooting up because it's legal, but even so, it's a life and personal choice that I'm not sure the government should be stopping.  Having said that, I don't champion that cause especially when I talk about marijuana legalization because then people just lose me and think I'm crazy for that idea.  I do think it's an edgy idea for sure and it's better not to confuse people or start to get people arguing about heroin when I'm really just wanting weed at the end of the day. 

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1209 on: May 15, 2019, 02:55:07 PM »
I'm with you on that.


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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1210 on: May 21, 2019, 03:34:14 PM »
This is good stuff for the CBD folk and medical uses of marijuana:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/21/health/heroin-opioid-addiction-cbd-study/index.html

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1211 on: May 31, 2019, 03:12:37 PM »
Bill heading to Illinois governor's desk to legalize marijuana. Right as I kicked my habit (I don't blame the drug, I blame the person). Son of a bitch. Maybe sometime next year when it's legal I'll be able to exercise self control. Looking forward to no longer having to deal with dealers, though. Not really looking forward to a certain relative of mine likely throwing the rest of her life down the gutter by saying "BuT iT's LeGaL" but oh well, can't live anyone's life for them.
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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1213 on: June 07, 2019, 08:18:32 AM »
Oakland decriminalizes Mushrooms and Peyote

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2019/06/05/oakland-california-legalizes-magic-mushrooms-and-peyote/1347888001/
That's cool and all, but I still think they'd solve real problems by legalizing (not just decriminalizing) LSD. Nobody's getting hurt from counterfeit shrooms. Lot of people are eating blotter of unknown nature and winding up in the ER with kidney damage and a fever of 104.
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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1214 on: June 09, 2019, 09:43:08 AM »
It's Sunday morning, I have literally nothing to do but kill time today, and all I want is some storebought high quality THC to go with my books. 6 months from now that'll be a possibility!
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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1215 on: June 09, 2019, 09:46:11 AM »
Great day for an edible, I'd love to go to the store and buy a cookie  :lol that doesn't seem to be in site anytime soon anymore for NJ

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1216 on: June 09, 2019, 09:55:07 AM »
Great day for an edible, I'd love to go to the store and buy a cookie  :lol that doesn't seem to be in site anytime soon anymore for NJ

I forgot all about edibles... ohhhh man
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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1217 on: June 09, 2019, 09:36:16 PM »
I love edibles.  Well, gummies anyway, which is the only kind I've tried.  Munch munch, wait a few minutes, enjoy wonderful consistent buzz for the next 4-6 hours, and no lung damage.


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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1220 on: June 12, 2019, 07:19:27 AM »
Nice


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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1222 on: June 12, 2019, 10:44:19 AM »
I'm kind of torn on this. It certainly shouldn't be treated any different than alcohol. Employers hire boosers so they should also hire stoners. The latter are preferable, IMO. At the same time I'm of the opinion that an employer should be allowed to not hire either if he's so inclined.
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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1223 on: June 12, 2019, 11:35:16 AM »
I'm kind of torn on this. It certainly shouldn't be treated any different than alcohol. Employers hire boosers so they should also hire stoners. The latter are preferable, IMO. At the same time I'm of the opinion that an employer should be allowed to not hire either if he's so inclined.

And that's really the crux of it.  This should be a market decision, frankly.   If a business wants to limit it's pool of workers to non-dope heads, so be it; if the people are that talented, they will be the ones missing out not the employees. 

(And by the way, I know of no one that didn't hire because of a "test" for alcohol, but I do know times when someone wasn't hired because they came with the rep of being a partier.    That's a decision for the company to make on their terms with their culture in mind.)

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Re: Amendment 64 Passes: Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use
« Reply #1224 on: June 12, 2019, 11:43:29 AM »
And anyone who rubs off as a stoner wont get hired by a company that would rather not hire them, so I get what you guys are saying and it makes sense.  I think I do agree with you because I don't think the government should step into private businesses, but I just don't find this to be really harmful and more beneficial to people who do use so I'm not really going to get upset here.