Author Topic: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread  (Read 41183 times)

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Online El Barto

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1400 on: July 22, 2021, 03:32:55 PM »
Wow, did somebody really report one of those posts? That's disappointing, to say the least.

Then Iím disappointing to say the least. At some point kids need an adult to tell them to stop. If for nothing else than to let them reflect for a minute. If you find their senseless bickering interesting, itíll keep going anyway. But I know many of us just want them to knock it off. No ones learning anything from this.

And you know I didnít report a specific post. I used a post to report a long ďI know you are but what am IĒ exchange.
Oh, I have no interest in that particular bickering. I simply don't read it. The question is whether or not they find it interesting. I honestly doubt it, but I do think that at least one of them may benefit from it, and I'm not opposed to them exploring that possibility. Besides which, I personally think that moderation does more harm to this tiny little corner of the interwebs than good.
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Offline Adami

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1401 on: July 22, 2021, 03:42:23 PM »
I can see that. I stand by my actions but maybe it was partially the result of the horrible week Iíve had. Who knows?

If  Stads or James T. want to tell me off for it, they can PM me. And if they unite in a hatred against me, Iíll call that a win and consider myself the Ozymandias (the nerdy reference one) of the PR forum.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1402 on: July 22, 2021, 03:58:05 PM »
Wow, did somebody really report one of those posts? That's disappointing, to say the least.

Then Iím disappointing to say the least. At some point kids need an adult to tell them to stop. If for nothing else than to let them reflect for a minute. If you find their senseless bickering interesting, itíll keep going anyway. But I know many of us just want them to knock it off. No ones learning anything from this.

And you know I didnít report a specific post. I used a post to report a long ďI know you are but what am IĒ exchange.

Wow. How insulting.  I know I'm only the "child", here at your mercy, but here's a tip:  don't read it if you're that bothered by it.  I don't expect to change Barry's mind; he's been pretty up front that "nothing can change his mind" (make of that what you will), but maybe someone else reading this can see both sides arrive at a different conclusion.  I'm not angry, and I don't hate you - if you think that you haven't bothered to actually read any of my posts, which says a lot - but I'm pretty disappointed and slightly hurt.  But I appreciate you airing it out so I know where I stand.

Offline Adami

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1403 on: July 22, 2021, 04:12:01 PM »
I stand by it. In general youíre not being a kid (to keep with my vague analogy) but in this specific context, you both are. Sorry.

If anyone here is reading the latest exchanges between you two (and I meant just that, the rest of what you post is fantastic if not disagreeable  :P ) and is learning valuable lessons from it, then they can pm me and I will message Tempus and retract my report.

And nothing I said is an insult. Itís constructive criticism and nothing more or less. Donít reduce it to an insult if you donít agree with it. I get criticism I donít like all the time. If I brushed it off as insulting Iíd never learn or grow from it. Your choice.
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Online lonestar

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1404 on: July 22, 2021, 05:03:38 PM »
Jfc... Why you guys gotta go all nuclear on my busy days... Missed all the fun man

Offline kingshmegland

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1405 on: July 22, 2021, 08:15:40 PM »
Barry, I find you aggressive while Bill is not attacking like you. 


Bill is a lawyer.  Agruementive is what he does, but he does it without attacking. He will always end with agree to disagree and move on.

You can disagree without being aggressive, dismissive and all around rude. 

I don't always agree with him but in the end, I still think of most as my friends here. We all have our own thoughts. It's what makes us, us!
Just hope you understand where I'm coming from.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 08:28:17 PM by kingshmegland »
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.Ē - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline Adami

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1406 on: July 22, 2021, 08:26:46 PM »
I sent Stadler a PM but I never intended what I wrote to be an attack on him. I was offering blunt but constructive criticism. If I have failed at that without realizing, I am sorry and I will try to express myself better in the future. Bill is a friend and I intended my response as tough love. Keyword being love.
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Offline kingshmegland

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1407 on: July 22, 2021, 08:30:16 PM »
I think we all take it personally.   Politics and power bring the worst out of us. 

I try not to judge most on their political ideologies but how they treat others. That's what truly matters.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.Ē - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline Adami

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1408 on: July 22, 2021, 08:32:22 PM »
Good point.

Iím not sure PR brings out much good in me these days. I guess thatís why I donít post here as often anymore.
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Offline kingshmegland

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1409 on: July 22, 2021, 08:37:55 PM »
Me too.  As you know very well. My Facebook is nonsense.   Silliness.  The world needs more of it.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.Ē - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline TAC

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1410 on: July 22, 2021, 08:38:50 PM »
Mine isnít.  ;D
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
Nice one Tim, I have great faith in you, as the fogey with the best taste.

Offline kingshmegland

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1411 on: July 22, 2021, 08:45:50 PM »
Mine isnít.  ;D

You shame us you old bastard.   Said with love. 
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.Ē - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline TAC

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1412 on: July 22, 2021, 08:50:37 PM »
Mine isnít.  ;D

You shame us you old bastard.   Said with love.

I have an old bastard rant coming up. But I need my laptop.
Holy shit did I have a day with my new fangled rental car.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
Nice one Tim, I have great faith in you, as the fogey with the best taste.

Offline kingshmegland

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1413 on: July 22, 2021, 08:52:56 PM »
Damn you.  Bed time. I look forward to it in the am.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.Ē - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline TAC

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1414 on: July 22, 2021, 08:57:05 PM »
Damn you.  Bed time. I look forward to it in the am.

Itís only 7:56 here.  ;D
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
Nice one Tim, I have great faith in you, as the fogey with the best taste.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1415 on: July 22, 2021, 09:00:28 PM »
I guess I was looking at the persistent exchanges between the two as accomplishing nothing constructive for anyone.  As evidenced by my and a few others' reactions of 'enough already', it is very clear that the two are rarely going to see P/R topics from the same lens, and unable/unwilling to come to the other's perspective.  There's an old joke, which really isn't much of a joke sometimes.  You can be right, or you can have peace.  Both of you feel you are "right" in your positions, and seeming prepared to die on your hill.

I just think some of us had enough of it already.  It's not like it was just today... it's been going on for months.

And that's all I have to say about that.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1416 on: July 22, 2021, 09:35:17 PM »
I do not have a problem with them bickering on here. I am not a mod. And it's not affecting me either as it's just between those two.

I find it hilarious they're continuing to bicker.

It's like letting two dogs fight it out.

Again, I am not a mod, so I don't see a need to get myself involved.

I also understand we all have bad days, and sometimes we let that frustration out in places we least expect it. It could be on here, the store, or even at work. It happens, and we move on.

I would've personally PM'd both myself if I felt bothered by their posts. But I read them, get my insight and move on. If I have anything to add, I will add my thoughts and opinions about it.


Now let's all have some tea and eat these nice happy cookies... :hat
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Offline bosk1

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1417 on: July 22, 2021, 11:08:24 PM »
I'll put it another way:  We decided long ago that we would put up with a good deal more on this subforum than we do in the general forums.  The reason for that is that political and religious topics inherently get a bit more heated, are more emotional, and often entail vigorous debate.  We want to encourage that vigorous debate because we believe it can be productive, in the same way the American founding fathers found vigorous debate to be healthy, productive, and necessary to vet important ideas.  I want to continue to encourage that.  At the same time, people have to be somewhat civil to one another.  You don't have to be polite.  You don't have to like each other.  You don't have to concede anything.  But you have to be reasonably civil.  Sometimes, folks here (myself included) cross the line.  We don't often ban people for it, because we understand that it comes with the territory.  But when we receive a report or one of us perceives that things are too close to the line or cross it, we step in and try to settle things down.  Sometimes, we make the wrong call one way or the other.  And right or wrong, people often disagree with those calls.  But we do the best we can because we want this place to continue, and to not be the type of cesspool that you see in comments sections all over the Internet.  I think we (the collective "we" of all those who post here) do a reasonable job. 

As to the particular set of posts here, from my perspective:
-Barry:  I agree with Joe that you were unnecessarily aggressive and dismissive.  I am asking that you tone it down.
-Stadler:  Often you can beat a point into the ground to miss the forest for the trees in trying to make your point.  Try to find that balance between vigorously standing your ground vs. recognizing when others have just had enough. 
-Adami:  You had every right to report the posts.  I don't see anything warranting anything more severe than what was said here.  I don't see it as something that "needed" to be reported.  But it wasn't a frivolous report either.  And sometimes, it's just good to get the mods' attention and ask us to step in to cool things down. 

Anyhow, I don't feel like any "formal" reprimands are needed for anybody--just please try to keep the above in mind.  Carry on.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 07:39:07 AM by bosk1 »
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Offline jammindude

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1418 on: July 23, 2021, 05:59:29 AM »
Totally a slow clap moment.

Agreed on all points.
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Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1419 on: July 23, 2021, 08:39:30 AM »
I've read all the posts here, and take them for what they are said to be - constructive criticism. I will do my part.   

But I'm always going to find it hard to err on the side of "letting it go" when the argument veers from the ideological towards the personal.  No one has to agree with me - my entire PREMISE is built on the expectation that we AREN'T going to agree, and that it's bad for all of  us if we DO all agree - but I don't believe I have to endure being called a child, being (perhaps implicitly) called a racist/bigot, being (perhaps implicitly) called an idiot, being (perhaps implicitly) called disingenuous, being (perhaps implicitly) being placed on the "wrong side of history" with all that entails, simply because I embrace more earnest sincerity than snarky confrontationalism.   And as much as the mods will allow, I will stand up for myself if need be.

I consider most (if not all) of you friends - even Barry when we're talking music or other non-P/R topics; the dude's got a lot to offer - and I'd like to keep it that way.  As I said above, I will do my part.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1420 on: July 23, 2021, 02:45:24 PM »
Iím not sure PR brings out much good in me these days. I guess thatís why I donít post here as often anymore.

This is me. I'll lurk and read and watch the debates but when I attempt to jump in I typically type (speak) from a very emotional point of view and am extremely defensive when challenged.....so, I just choose not to post most of the time.
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Online El Barto

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1421 on: July 23, 2021, 03:20:23 PM »
It's not really related, but since this seems to be the thread related to wackjob militants I guess this is where I'll put this. I'm sure we all remember when an assortment of these wackjobs were going to storm the Michigan capitol and kidnap Gretchen Whitmer because FREEDOM! or some shit. The FBI was on the ball and prevented the whole thing. Turns out that of the 17 guys in the group, 12 of them were either FBI agents or FBI informants. And I don't mean that they were agents that had gone off the reservation. I mean that the whole plot was a sting operation which existed more in the minds of the agents than the actual wackjobs they were meaning to bust. It's like what the FBI and the NYPD would do to hapless Moslems after 911. Find some loser, move his plan along, and then bust him for it so they could be the heroes. In this case it's entirely possible that the five guys remaining were bad people, but there really won't be any way of finding that out now. More to the point, even if they were bad people, it doesn't look to me that they were either sufficiently motivated or capable of pulling off their stunt without their FBI infiltrators bankrolling and generally moving the operation along.

I don't know, it kind of seems to me that if somebody wants to do something, but hasn't the means, nor the motivation to acquire the means, then maybe he's not actually a threat, and maybe you shouldn't find a way to turn him into one. But what do I know.

This is just an article about an article, but it links to many passages from the CI transcripts, including all of the aid that they had to give these knuckleheads. As is so often the case, these guys couldn't even afford ammo, which the FBI had to supply. SMDH.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20210722/16562447226/court-docs-appear-to-show-fbi-informants-contributed-two-thirds-conspirators-to-michigan-governor-kidnapping-plot.shtml
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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1422 on: July 24, 2021, 05:50:31 AM »
Not only is there sufficient wrong with what happened on the ground - you've highlighted that very well and don't need me to add anything - but it also shows how much is wrong with the analyses of these kinds of events.   "Whackjobs?  Democrat Governor? Gotta be the Republican deplorables again!" when in fact, 12 out of the 17 - that's over 70% - were nothing of the sort.   So that theory doesn't sustain critical, data-driven thinking.   The FBI a pawn of the Right, undermining Hillary Clinton?  Burying tips received about Brett Kavanaugh (Sen. Whitehouse (D-RI) isn't highlighting that ALL 4,500 tips WERE provided to the Senate at the time, so nothing was "buried")?  Well they just set up and framed a team of.. let's say right-wing underachievers with a clear political angle.   Now, I'm not willing to say that the FBI is a liberal tool; I tend to think they are more a-political opportunists than that, but still, the popular angles just don't sustain the data-driven scrutiny.   The issues at the FBI seem to be more of a law-enforcement issue than a political one.

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1423 on: July 24, 2021, 07:36:32 AM »
Not only is there sufficient wrong with what happened on the ground - you've highlighted that very well and don't need me to add anything - but it also shows how much is wrong with the analyses of these kinds of events.   "Whackjobs?  Democrat Governor? Gotta be the Republican deplorables again!" when in fact, 12 out of the 17 - that's over 70% - were nothing of the sort.   So that theory doesn't sustain critical, data-driven thinking.   The FBI a pawn of the Right, undermining Hillary Clinton?  Burying tips received about Brett Kavanaugh (Sen. Whitehouse (D-RI) isn't highlighting that ALL 4,500 tips WERE provided to the Senate at the time, so nothing was "buried")?  Well they just set up and framed a team of.. let's say right-wing underachievers with a clear political angle.   Now, I'm not willing to say that the FBI is a liberal tool; I tend to think they are more a-political opportunists than that, but still, the popular angles just don't sustain the data-driven scrutiny.   The issues at the FBI seem to be more of a law-enforcement issue than a political one.

They are owned and operated by the businesses interests of the liberals. The same way the media is owned and operated by these same companies. But like the above, they will not tell you this and blame it on republican deplorables.

Makes you think more about BLM and if Antifa is really CIA and FBI informants like those posted above.

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1424 on: July 24, 2021, 09:27:07 AM »
 :lol

Offline Stadler

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1425 on: July 25, 2021, 09:18:32 AM »
I don't know about BLM and the CIA, but it's amazing to me how many "news stories" are wholly dependent on the source.  Meaning, there's a story, I will Google it, and that story is only covered in any meaningful way by sources with a certain political angle.  I get it if the same story is covered by all sources, reflecting their angle - that's fine, and that allows us to triangulate - but to not cover a story at all because of the ideology of the outlet is to me an ethical transgression.   

And lest anyone wants to hop on the "the only biased sources are on the right", it happens both ways and across more than just the big three.

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1426 on: July 25, 2021, 02:26:09 PM »
No argument here...

Offline TAC

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Re: 2020 Election Aftermath Thread
« Reply #1427 on: August 14, 2021, 02:42:42 PM »
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
Nice one Tim, I have great faith in you, as the fogey with the best taste.