Police brutality, looting and racism

[kirksnosehair]

You got that right

[TAC]

Eh, that's kind of just semantics, though, isn't it?  I'm not sure that putting "it's not lost on me that" in front of that statement mitigates the pandering that I think TAC is calling out here.  Not trying to speak for Tim, he's a big boy, but I too, am a little tired of so many things seemingly stuffed into "dat racism" seemingly at the first opportunity. 


Racism is a massive problem in our society all by itself, this kind of virtue signaling isn't really helping because it comes across to me as phony and opportunistic in a used-car salesman/slimebag politician sort of way.

Oh feel free to speak for me. You nailed it.

Hostility from white people towards her putting it out there only entrenches her opinion, does it not?

Maybe, but that doesn't make her right, either. I see it as race baiting.
And trust me, I am not the conservative in my house.

But I just hate bullshit being fed to the masses by opportunists.

[El Barto]

Maybe, but that doesn't make her right, either. I see it as race baiting.
And trust me, I am not the conservative in my house.

But I just hate bullshit being fed to the masses by opportunists.

It does not make her right. I think we all agree that she is not. It does make her one of the 325m people free to express her opinion, though. And if she really is race baiting, DON'T' FALL FOR IT, FOR FUCK'S SAKE! If that was her intent, you played right into her hands.

[kirksnosehair]

uh, from where I sit, he called it out, which is the opposite of playing into her hands

[XJDenton]

I don't think its an unreasonable observation, personally.

[Stadler]

Eh, that's kind of just semantics, though, isn't it?  I'm not sure that putting "it's not lost on me that" in front of that statement mitigates the pandering that I think TAC is calling out here.  Not trying to speak for Tim, he's a big boy, but I too, am a little tired of so many things seemingly stuffed into "dat racism" seemingly at the first opportunity. 


Racism is a massive problem in our society all by itself, this kind of virtue signaling isn't really helping because it comes across to me as phony and opportunistic in a used-car salesman/slimebag politician sort of way.

I don't really disagree with you. I was explaining it because the impression I got from his post was that it was far more than simply her expressing her interpretation of it. In the end what she did really didn't amount to much.

One thing I will point out is that I think we may be reaching a kind of feedback loop, where an increasing number of people see racism in casual relationships, in this case black athletes performing for the amusement of rich white people, and a similar number of people, because of that, won't see racism even when it's there. Their objections, which may or may not be right, reinforce the former. Like you and Tim I disagree with her assessment. Hostility from white people towards her putting it out there only entrenches her opinion, does it not?

I'd like to think I've been calling out this do-loop for a while. When things are all or nothing, binary, it's not reasonable to assume that everyone is going to see things only one way.   If nothing else, it depends on the rounding error.   There are simply too many variables in play to make it "yes/no". 

[Stadler]

I don't think its an unreasonable observation, personally.

What part?

[TAC]

I found this story interesting.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/boston-school-committee-chair-alexandra-oliver-d%c3%a1vila-resigns-over-racially-charged-texts/ar-AAKPD4w?ocid=hplocalnews

She exchanged PERSONAL tests with another member with a racially charged remark against....Whites.

[kingshmegland]

We are at a point where everyone is disparaging others feelings instead of cultivating who is ready to move into a school because of their school rating.  Race shouldn't get you in.  Your academic standing should.

[kirksnosehair]

I found this story interesting.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/boston-school-committee-chair-alexandra-oliver-d%c3%a1vila-resigns-over-racially-charged-texts/ar-AAKPD4w?ocid=hplocalnews

She exchanged PERSONAL tests with another member with a racially charged remark against....Whites.

I didn't read the entire story and this may seem kind of legalistic of me, but I wonder if the texts she sent were from her own personal phone or from a phone that she was provided from her position on the council.  What I want to know is why is it ANYONE'S business what kind of texts this lady is sending privately to other people?  I mean don't get me wrong racism is bad regardless of who is doing it, but are we now holding people professionally accountable for having shitty opinions on race?  I'm sure there's a little more nuance to this than I am assuming here, but this kind of stuff makes me very uncomfortable.  People losing their jobs because they have opinions that other people they work with don't agree with.  That's how it comes across.

[TAC]

I think there becomes a lack of confidence if they feel she cannot make professional decisions if she has alternate personal feelings. I think that's dumb. Everyone has personal feelings.

You're right though.

[El Barto]

I found this story interesting.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/boston-school-committee-chair-alexandra-oliver-d%c3%a1vila-resigns-over-racially-charged-texts/ar-AAKPD4w?ocid=hplocalnews

She exchanged PERSONAL tests with another member with a racially charged remark against....Whites.

I didn't read the entire story and this may seem kind of legalistic of me, but I wonder if the texts she sent were from her own personal phone or from a phone that she was provided from her position on the council.  What I want to know is why is it ANYONE'S business what kind of texts this lady is sending privately to other people?  I mean don't get me wrong racism is bad regardless of who is doing it, but are we now holding people professionally accountable for having shitty opinions on race?  I'm sure there's a little more nuance to this than I am assuming here, but this kind of stuff makes me very uncomfortable.  People losing their jobs because they have opinions that other people they work with don't agree with.  That's how it comes across.

Um, yes? This has been the case for several years now. I'm honestly unsure why this is news to you.   

[kirksnosehair]

People being held accountable for public displays or outbursts of racism is one thing, but people being held accountable for the content of private text messages between them and another person to me that crosses a line.


It's one thing if someone goes into a public place, where anyone can see what's being written and spray paints the "N" word in 10' tall letters on some black dude's garage door, but this article was referring to private texts between two people.  I'm not OK with that even if I think the behavior is abhorrent and disgusting, a private text conversation between me and someone else should not be a reason for me to lose my job.  That text is nobody's fucking business other than me and the person I sent it to.  Full stop. 


Holding people accountable for public displays of racism is not what I'm talking about here, maybe that helps you understand where I'm coming from, even though I already said so. 

[El Barto]

People being held accountable for public displays or outbursts of racism is one thing, but people being held accountable for the content of private text messages between them and another person to me that crosses a line.


It's one thing if someone goes into a public place, where anyone can see what's being written and spray paints the "N" word in 10' tall letters on some black dude's garage door, but this article was referring to private texts between two people.  I'm not OK with that even if I think the behavior is abhorrent and disgusting, a private text conversation between me and someone else should not be a reason for me to lose my job.  That text is nobody's fucking business other than me and the person I sent it to.  Full stop. 


Holding people accountable for public displays of racism is not what I'm talking about here, maybe that helps you understand where I'm coming from, even though I already said so.

Hulk Hogan and Donald Sterling are certainly valid examples. Both were talking in private with no idea they were being recorded. Hulkster was post-coital, FFS. If you want to get out of celebrity-land, plenty of people have been sacked for attending rallies or protests of various sorts. They didn't have to spray paint anything, or carry offensive signs. Their presence was sufficient. Search "fired for attending Trump/BLM rally/protest" for examples. The thing is, since we're all serfs here in Americaland, we're subject to the fear of our corporate masters. If a bunch of assholes start emailing your boss saying they're going to boycott your business because he employs racists, as defined by those assholes, then your boss may decide it's easier to just cut you loose. This is why Stadler and I have been going on about this for nearly 10 years now.

[kirksnosehair]

OK, but I'm not saying it DOESN'T happen.  I'm saying it SHOULDN'T happen.  It doesn't matter whether or not I agree with the politics of the people involved and now you're moving the goalposts (again) because the ONLY thing I am referring to here is a private text between two people. 


In my mind a private text is just that: a private text


Firing someone from their job because they expressed a shitty opinion (regardless of the topic) in a private text crosses a line I don't think should be crossed.  We have so little privacy left in today's world, I'm not ready to cede private texts to public scrutiny and consequences for what I chat about with one of my friends or coworkers.


All that other shit you're talking about is not what I was referring to.

[El Barto]

The question you posed was : Are we now holding people professionally accountable for having shitty positions on race?

Yes we are, and I provided examples. Now we're limiting it to whether or not they've intentionally made those opinions known. No problemo. The answer is still yes we are, and I provided two examples of that (Hulkster and Sterling). Personally, I'd propose that simply attending a public event shouldn't be construed as possessing a shitty opinion on race, but whatever. If you want strictly non-celebrity examples of this happening, and happening only in a private format, look no further than John Law. Cops are being fired all over the place for having shitty opinions on race (or being perceived to have shitty opinions on race) for comments they have in private forums.

Look, our replies about the alcohol and heroin thing are a bit snarky, but that's not my intention here. You posed a question and I've done my best to answer it. I think I did and was consistent about it. I'm making this point, or at least trying to, in good faith here. We are and have been holding people professionally accountable for shitty opinions. That's the case no matter how you want to qualify it. Whateverthehell it was that's going on with this woman is nothing new. It's been going on, and the tendency will continue to get worse.

And yes, we both agree that it's bullshit. It was bullshit seven years ago and it's bullshit now. It just isn't anything new, and it doesn't seem to be anything we're going to stop doing.