Author Topic: Native Americans/Indigenous People of The World  (Read 20508 times)

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Online Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #210 on: January 22, 2021, 08:09:12 PM »
Ben, I loved that. I don't live near Grafton, I'm actually south of Boston. I've read a bit on King Phillip's War and I am fascinated with it. Mainly because it all happened where I've lived.

Years ago, I read Nathaniel Philbreck's Mayflower and it's one of the best books I've ever read. I'd love to follow up with a book from the Native American's POV of that time period here.

I grew up in Mattapoisett, and my wife is from Plymouth. There are many historical markers all over the place, and whenever possible, I always try and stop to read them.

Yeah, this one was interesting because of the Prayer Town, and how they were accepting of their ways, that is until they made those natives assimilate into their mindset. And how it started Kings Phillips War. That is usually how all our Native Uprisings begin. And it still is going on today.

That's why I try to get across we have places in the United States that are sacred to us. and the people of the other mindset, don't respect that, and would rather build that road, build that house, build that pipeline, because they see value in the land that we keep the way it is because it is sacred, and should be kept that way.

But yeah, things like this are what I feel should be required education to all the people that reside in that area. It's a part of the history, and it's not the full history that is being taught in schools.
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Online TAC

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #211 on: January 22, 2021, 08:24:39 PM »

But yeah, things like this are what I feel should be required education to all the people that reside in that area. It's a part of the history, and it's not the full history that is being taught in schools.

So I literally just asked my son about this. He's a senior in HS. He said he last took History in 10nth grade. I asked him about what he learned about Native Americans. He remembered learning about King Phillips War, and the Trail Of Tears. I can tell you that I graduated HS in 1986 and I learned of neither.


Next time I talk to my father, he was a History teacher, I'll have to ask him about this.





Ben, let me ask you this....looking back, should've Massasoit simply just slaughtered the original Pilgrims?

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Online Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #212 on: January 22, 2021, 08:52:05 PM »

But yeah, things like this are what I feel should be required education to all the people that reside in that area. It's a part of the history, and it's not the full history that is being taught in schools.

So I literally just asked my son about this. He's a senior in HS. He said he last took History in 10nth grade. I asked him about what he learned about Native Americans. He remembered learning about King Phillips War, and the Trail Of Tears. I can tell you that I graduated HS in 1986 and I learned of neither.


Next time I talk to my father, he was a History teacher, I'll have to ask him about this.





Ben, let me ask you this....looking back, should've Massasoit simply just slaughtered the original Pilgrims?

Too bad I can't find this full documentary, that is if he released it....

https://youtu.be/4MmYE7cHrxo

This brings up that question of "Where those Prayer Towns, gonna side with their Native Friends, or their White Friends?"

But, for me, I see the native people and Chief Massasoit as someone whom saw that instead of fighting, that "Convinced of the value of a thriving trade with the newcomers, Massasoit set out to ensure peaceful accord between the races—a peace that lasted as long as he lived."

He saw a benefit for his people, in what they, the pilgrims brought. It wasn't until the pilgrims started enforcing their ways upon us, while saying our ways, in which is how we lived, isn't how to live, that we started to rebel.

Quote
"Massasoit was able to keep the peace for many decades, but new waves of land-hungry Europeans created tension as the Indians’ native land was steadily taken over by the whites. When he died, goodwill gradually dissolved, culminating in the bloody King Philip’s War (1675), led by Massasoit’s second son."

So, It seems one of his sons, saw that struggle their people were faced with, and also probably said and wondered why his Father never bothered to attack the pilgrims, and wipe them all. His son, felt in his heart, that the only thing to do was attack the oppresser.



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Online TAC

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #213 on: January 22, 2021, 09:13:37 PM »
But, for me, I see the native people and Chief Massasoit as someone whom saw that instead of fighting, that "Convinced of the value of a thriving trade with the newcomers, Massasoit set out to ensure peaceful accord between the races—a peace that lasted as long as he lived."

He saw a benefit for his people, in what they, the pilgrims brought. It wasn't until the pilgrims started enforcing their ways upon us, while saying our ways, in which is how we lived, isn't how to live, that we started to rebel.

Quote
"Massasoit was able to keep the peace for many decades, but new waves of land-hungry Europeans created tension as the Indians’ native land was steadily taken over by the whites. When he died, goodwill gradually dissolved, culminating in the bloody King Philip’s War (1675), led by Massasoit’s second son."

So, It seems one of his sons, saw that struggle their people were faced with, and also probably said and wondered why his Father never bothered to attack the pilgrims, and wipe them all. His son, felt in his heart, that the only thing to do was attack the oppresser.


While Massasoit was a supreme diplomat, he practically facilitated the settler's takeover, no?

I wonder how Native Americans view Massasoit and Metacomet.

And Ben, if you don't mind me asking, where in the US are you?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
Nice one Tim, I have great faith in you, as the fogey with the best taste.

Online Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #214 on: January 22, 2021, 11:26:07 PM »
But, for me, I see the native people and Chief Massasoit as someone whom saw that instead of fighting, that "Convinced of the value of a thriving trade with the newcomers, Massasoit set out to ensure peaceful accord between the races—a peace that lasted as long as he lived."

He saw a benefit for his people, in what they, the pilgrims brought. It wasn't until the pilgrims started enforcing their ways upon us, while saying our ways, in which is how we lived, isn't how to live, that we started to rebel.

Quote
"Massasoit was able to keep the peace for many decades, but new waves of land-hungry Europeans created tension as the Indians’ native land was steadily taken over by the whites. When he died, goodwill gradually dissolved, culminating in the bloody King Philip’s War (1675), led by Massasoit’s second son."

So, It seems one of his sons, saw that struggle their people were faced with, and also probably said and wondered why his Father never bothered to attack the pilgrims, and wipe them all. His son, felt in his heart, that the only thing to do was attack the oppresser.


While Massasoit was a supreme diplomat, he practically facilitated the settler's takeover, no?

I wonder how Native Americans view Massasoit and Metacomet.

And Ben, if you don't mind me asking, where in the US are you?

I am from the Southwest.
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Online Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #215 on: February 09, 2021, 12:31:05 AM »
"Oren is a faithkeeper of the Turtle Clan, Onondaga Council of Chiefs, Haudenosaunee
(Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy). He has been active in international Indigenous
rights and sovereignty issues for over four decades at the United Nations and other
international forums. He is a State University of New York (SUNY) distinguished services
professor emeritus of the University at Buffalo.  He serves on the board of Bioneers an
environmental champion of the earth. Oren is chairman of the board of directors of
Plantagon International AB, the leader in urban agriculture, Plantagon is designed
to meet challenges of compounding human population, finite resources and global warming."

https://youtu.be/kbwSwUMNyPU
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Online Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #216 on: February 09, 2021, 12:39:05 AM »
Oren Lyons on Sovereignty: Who We Are - Lummi Nation

Hosted by Children of the Setting Sun and Lummi Indian Business Council
Featuring
Oren Lyons
Tom Sampson
Jay Julius
Jill Macintyre Witt
Tony Hillaire, host
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

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Online Ben_Jamin

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Offline TempusVox

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #218 on: February 15, 2021, 12:24:51 PM »
We Natives also have a Matrilineal way of living. Not a Paternal one. Our families are based on Clans, that are determined by the Mother. Each village has a set of Clans. When a Man marries a woman, he goes to her village and builds a home for her, the home is hers and she has the rule of what goes on in the home.

My paternal Grandmother was from the Eastern band of the Cherokee. The Cherokee system of clans was comprised of 7 clans (Potato, Paint, Blue, Long Hair, Deer, Wolf, and Bird). There were seven clans because the number 7 is sacred to the Cherokee. She came from the Blue Clan (A-ni-sa-ho-ni). In Cherokee culture the reason the women were given the rule of the clans was that they were the givers of life.

The women were free to choose the men they wished to marry, as long as they were from different clans. Every member of the clan were considerd brothers and sisters, so you could never marry within your clan. She obviously married a white man so it didn't matter.

 When a woman divorced her husband, she would pack all his clothes and set them outside the door --- it was that easy.When my grandparents married, it was the first time my grandmother had been outside the reservation in NC. After WWII, my grandfather was a truck driver, and they moved to Kentucky. Her sister came and lived with them a while so she wouldn't be alone when he was on the road. But he felt guilty being gone so much, and really missed her. My grandfather used to tell the story that he came home about 2 months after they moved to KY after being on the road for a week, and found a huge bag of clothes on the porch. He panicked thinking she had thrown him out of the house and wanted a divorce. She laughed at him when he came in because they were just old clothes she'd set outside to take to Goodwill. But it bothered him enough that he quit his job that day and got a job driving local so he would be home each night.
 
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Online Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans/Indigenous People of The World
« Reply #219 on: March 22, 2021, 12:31:47 PM »

Quote
“This defence of abandonment is a procedural barrier. It’s a way of making it difficult and expensive to get to court. Of course, the government has unlimited resources to fight us and we don’t have unlimited resources,” Woodward said at the webinar.

“We don’t have a trial date and one of the reasons we don’t have a trial date is that the government is saying they need more time to organize their evidence of abandonment. We are saying you don’t need any more time to organize evidence of abandonment — first, you shouldn’t be pleading it and second, there is no evidence because there was no abandonment,” he said.

https://thenarwhal.ca/bc-nuchatlaht-title-case-undrip/
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Re: Native Americans/Indigenous People of The World
« Reply #220 on: April 01, 2021, 12:59:05 AM »
Quote
"Chief Arvol Looking Horse’s lecture on water crisis, environmental justice, and unity will break the surface of the numerous perturbing issues affecting the Native American community that have been unrecognized and disregarded for centuries.

As the 19th Keeper of the Sacred White Buffalo Calf Pipe and Bundle, Chief Looking Horse was the youngest to have been given this responsibility in history at only twelve years old. Also the spiritual leader of the Lakota Nation of South Dakota and all three branches of the Sioux tribe, he has dedicated his life to “letting the world know how beautiful [their] way of life is”. The intensifying suppression of his people’s spiritual preferences is what has encouraged Chief Looking Horse to fight for the religious freedom, cultural survival, and revival for Native Americans across the country and restore pride to their lands. He met with the Dalai Lama in 1995 to establish a relationship between Tibet and the Lakota Nation, and has lectured at many reputable universities, including Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and UCLA. Chief Looking Horse is also the author of White Buffalo Teachings and columnist for Indian Country Today, as well as the founder of the Big Foot Riders in memory of the massacre at Wounded Knee. He has won many awards, such as the Juliet Hollister Award from the Temple of Understanding and the Canadian Wolf Award."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J-iikPRtnw
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Online Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans/Indigenous People of The World
« Reply #221 on: April 20, 2021, 01:13:38 PM »
The dark history of Canada's Food Guide: How experiments on Indigenous children shaped nutrition policy

Quote
The nutritional experiments were part of a larger series of "investigations" into the diets of Indigenous people during this period, what Mosby described as the federal government's "social experiment" to transform Indigenous people's diets.

“The most important connection between the nutrition experiments and Canada's Food Guide is Lionel Pett,” said Mosby. “Pett was the architect of Canada's Food Guide.” Canada's Official Food Rules was the country's first food guide. Issued in 1942, it was the precursor to Canada’s Food Guide. (Swift Canadian Co.)
A justification for these experiments, explained Mosby, was a theory going around among scientists and bureaucrats that the so-called "Indian problem" might have been caused by malnutrition and not due to what they saw as "racial traits."

"They took the extremely racist idea that Indigenous peoples were somehow racially inferior, and they suggested that might have had to do with nutrition. And so they took it upon themselves to solve this 'Indian problem' through expert intervention into Indigenous people's diets."

"At the heart of this was this …. willful attempt to ignore the actual cause of the changes in Indigenous people's diets which was colonialism, which was the Indian Act, which was the forced removal of Indigenous people from their lands, the limits placed on Indigenous peoples' livelihoods through regulations on hunting and trapping, through the effects of residential schools — all of these different elements of Canadian colonialism, which led to problems with Indigenous people's diets."


Quote
"The most important connection between the nutrition experiments and Canada's Food Guide is Lionel Pett," said Mosby. "Pett was the architect of Canada's Food Guide."

Pett was the primary author of Canada's Official Food Rules, which was introduced in 1942 and was the precursor to Canada's Food Guide.

"The nature of the experiments that [Pett] conducted in residential schools was determined based on a whole series of internal debates among nutrition professionals and bureaucrats about Canada's Food Guide and about what a healthy and nutritionally adequate diet looked like."

"Pett used the opportunity of hungry kids in residential schools … who had no choice in what they were going to eat and whose parents had no choice in what they were going to eat … to attempt to answer a series of questions that were of interest to him professionally and scientifically."

"You can draw a direct line between the types of experiments that were being done in residential schools and these larger debates about how they should structure the food guide."

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/unreserved/how-food-in-canada-is-tied-to-land-language-community-and-colonization-1.5989764/the-dark-history-of-canada-s-food-guide-how-experiments-on-indigenous-children-shaped-nutrition-policy-1.5989785?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar
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Online Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans/Indigenous People of The World
« Reply #222 on: July 31, 2021, 06:23:50 PM »
Here's a great recent example of an issue regarding Indigenous Peoples of The Americas sacred sites and the future technological advancements of Economic Development.


Quote
The Reno-Sparks Indian Colony and Atsa Koodakuh Wyh Nuwu/People of Red Mountain are intervening in a lawsuit that four conservation groups have filed against Lithium Nevada Corp. The tribes say their ancestors were massacred in the late 1800s at the proposed Thacker Pass site that would mine lithium, a key component in electric vehicle batteries. Demand for the mineral is expected to triple over the next five years.

The tribes say the Bureau of Land Management’s approval of the project in December during the final weeks of the Trump administration violates the National Historic Preservation Act because they haven’t been consulted about potential efforts to mitigate damage to their sacred lands.

Building a mine “where our ancestors were massacred — where our ancestors’ bones, blood and flesh form a part of the soil — would be like building a lithium mine over Pearl Harbor, Arlington National Cemetery or the Gettysburg Battlefield,” according to an affidavit that lawyers for the tribes filed Thursday in federal court in Reno with a request to temporarily block the digging.
https://indiancountrytoday.com/news/tribes-seek-order-banning-digging-at-lithium-mine


And this is what the company tries to argue, yet it shows how our Tribal Relationships with these sacred sites is not as simple as just regulating it and writing it down onto a paper.

Quote
The Bureau of Land Management says it has been consulting with the three federally recognized tribes at Thacker Pass — the Fort McDermitt Paiute and Shoshone tribes and Winnemucca Indian Colony — about plans on how to treat historic properties.

The agency said it didn’t object to the two other tribes intervening, but Lithium Nevada said it did, partly because it argued Atsa Koodakuh Wyh Nuwu/People of Red Mountain isn’t a tribe defined under the National Historic Preservation Act.

The company said a review has included “substantial consultation” with local tribes that never raised similar concerns, while it spent $10 million on the permitting process for the mine.

Tribal lawyers said in Thursday’s filing that the government also should be consulting with at least nine other tribes in Nevada, California and Oregon with ties to Thacker Pass.

Michon Eben, the Reno-Sparks Indian Colony’s tribal historic preservation officer, said she told federal officials last month that “just because regional tribes have been isolated and forced onto reservations relatively far away from Thacker Pass does not mean these regional tribes do not possess cultural connections to the pass.”


 In other words, Regardless, all these tribes hold this place sacred, and just want that place to be left alone. It's not in our priority or concern if it has any economic/future technological benefit. The only thing that should matter is respecting that we hold this place sacred, in the same way that Jerusalem is held sacred to the Jews and Muslims (why else are Isreal and Palenstine constantly fighting over this piece of land). This is what most of these major businesses and developments disregard consistently when wanting to develop on land and this has been going on since the arrival of Europeans. It's a matter of letting our people have a voice in the decisions regarding these places that are held sacred for our people and more than likely many other native tribes that span the Northern and Southern continents of The Americas, including the surrounding islands. This is because our stories are told in the carvings in those ruins, which the meanings for are stored in the words of our elders stories.
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Online Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans/Indigenous People of The World
« Reply #223 on: August 05, 2021, 08:32:34 AM »
Quote
During my first day of law school, I remember being confused after attending the orientation for Indigenous law students, only to be surrounded by predominantly white people.

When you think about joining something called the Native Summer Law Program, you would never imagine being one of the few visibly Indigenous people enrolled. Later, a friend of mine joked that she had also felt lost because she couldn't find any visibly Indigenous students. I was relieved that I wasn't the only person feeling out of place in my brown skin.

Many people believe that having Indigenous ancestry is enough to be considered First Nation, Métis or Inuit.

These people are wrong...


...Many people who are claiming to be Indigenous do not share this collective experience of genocide. Many of them can actually benefit from it as white, wealthy or privileged people.


It's not surprising that these people become the most successful in academic circles or become the go-to experts on Indigenous identity. This is why I believe the most notorious place for false claims of Indigenous identity is universities across the country...

...Meanwhile, I've heard of people from the program who no longer claim they are Indigenous, and others who have even denied they ever attended the program.

The Native Law Summer Program is still one the most important programs in the country that has been a gateway for hundreds of Indigenous legal professionals, including myself. But the bottom line is Indigenous-based programming and scholarships are meant to help Indigenous students overcome institutionalized racism, oppression and poverty.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/opinion-too-easy-claim-indigeneity-1.6114558


I'm gonna repost what I posted on Facebook on my share of this story....

I'm finding out its an identity. An identity they tried to wipe away, and as the physical force didn't work, they went mentally and spiritually by indoctrination in their public schools/boarding schools of our children to wipe out the Indian but saving the man.

After wiping us out of this identity, they then make a document and make us force ourselves into an identity they determined for us. This is called Blood Quantum, where the councils and tribes determine their members and who is of their tribe by using their methods of blood quantum. Thus, many indigenous nations whom were barely holding onto their identity, now do not classify as being an Indigenous tribe because their blood quantum has diminished.

It's up to the Tribal Nations whom they want to accept into their Tribe and Society. We did this by adopting others. Many people got adopted into other Tribes, Clans, and even other races got adopted into the tribe.

But personally, being Indigenous isn't just physical and based on blood. It's having the heart, the soul, and especially the mindset. These three things work together to form our Indigenous identity. Opposed to the Economic Mindset/white mindset they indoctrinate us to form to their identity of heart, mind, and soul.


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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Native Americans/Indigenous People of The World
« Reply #224 on: August 05, 2021, 07:53:09 PM »
Ben, I think I know where you are going with this, and I want to comment. But I might be wrong. If so, please correct me. Are you saying it isn't just about the "blood quantum" (sorry I do not fully understand this concept yet) as to what makes someone identify as "Native?" It takes more than just having, as in the quote "Indigenous ancestry" to qualify? And if so, who is to make the appropriate determination?
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Online Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans/Indigenous People of The World
« Reply #225 on: August 05, 2021, 10:32:39 PM »
Ben, I think I know where you are going with this, and I want to comment. But I might be wrong. If so, please correct me. Are you saying it isn't just about the "blood quantum" (sorry I do not fully understand this concept yet) as to what makes someone identify as "Native?" It takes more than just having, as in the quote "Indigenous ancestry" to qualify? And if so, who is to make the appropriate determination?

Yes. There's more than having ancestry or blood/DNA to be considered a Indigenous/First Nations person.  Who determines that is based on the Tribe. Tribes themselves are their own societies and within those Tribes are other Societies. To be of that Tribe, one must incorporate into it's culture, which the society and culture are the identity of that Tribe. Which many and most are born into the identity, born into the clan. This is where the identity of the Tribe and the identity of an Indigenous/First Nations person is formed.

See, we had our own terms and names for each other. When the Europeans came, they were the ones to brand us and form us into the people you know as Native Americans. These terms are what they called and considered us. Not what the identity of a Tribe considers themselves.

To be an Indigenous person is to have that Indigenous identity. Which sadly, was almost brought to extinction by the genocide committed. Some actually did become extinct.

They tried to destroy the mindset that forms the indigenous identity, it worked, but not really. As we reclaim that identity that was lost and forced out of our grandparents and great-grandparents.

That's the intergenerational trauma that guy talks about in the article.

And it's unfortunate how some Tribal Leaders have lost that mindset. It's a fight us people must fight on our own. Same as how Americans should fight their own battle within America first before going out and trying to be savior and civilize another country, especially one that doesn't want them there.
Basically, tending ones own garden before tending to the others, as an infestation may occur the longer you stay away from tending your own garden.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2021, 10:42:06 PM by Ben_Jamin »
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